Apple's MacBook Air vs. Microsoft's Surface Laptop 2

[citysnaps]

pcie based is poor? last time i check my samsung 970 pro is pcie 4x and that thing smokes any apple ssd
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ur giving apple too much credit here, there are alot of ssd out there that can manage 2.1 gbytes/sec easily, microsoft or razor might be slow not because its pcie base but could be because they are using sata ACHI and not nvme.

again what apple doing is nothing special, in fact the only reason why they custom designed their own controller and not using m.2 so ppl have to buy from them instead of slapping a samsung 970 and save money

http://thessdreviewcdn2.thessdrevie...ung-970-Pro-1TB-NVMe-SSD-Crystal-DiskMark.jpg

Where did I say that?

I said: "What is surprising (not really), is the Surface Laptop 2 SSD performance is so poor."
[doublepost=1551242321][/doublepost]

ur giving apple too much credit here, there are alot of ssd out there that can manage 2.1 gbytes/sec easily,

Great. Can you point to some entry level laptops that support that? That is what the conversation was about.

 

[waterfta]

Did you reboot your computer today? After all, it's patch Tuesday. Windows can't make it a week without some major vulnerability or some other embarrassing screw up from happening.

Windows is trash. The sooner you learn, the better off you'll be.

did someone have a bad experience in the past? Did Windows hurt you? I have had to reboot my Mac for various hangs and issues more so than I have my Surface Laptop recently...but neither is perfect. If Windows 10 was THAT bad, people would all buy Macs. I feel like you watched one too many Justin Long ads in the past and they have stuck with you for the past 10 years.

 

[341328]

unless you have a fancy brand new usbc monitor, mini display port is way more used on monitors. Plus my mini display port is 1.4... so it supports 8K.

 

[nviz22]

But oddly enough, the Surface Go does have USB-C.

It’s a good and bad thing. The good is that I can charge my Go with my other chargers. However, I need an adapter to work with other peripherals. I do appreciate having USB C though.

 

[ilikewhey]

Where did I say that?

I said: "What is surprising (not really), is the Surface Laptop 2 SSD performance is so poor."
[doublepost=1551242321][/doublepost]

Great. Can you point to some entry level laptops that support that? That is what the conversation was about.

i'm not sure if any entry level laptops has that since its an entry, but for around 1200 i can buy a msi gs63 that has 2 m.2 for additional pcie nvme like the samsung 970 250gb for around 100 bucks.

https://www.electronicexpress.com/c...FCq0xzqVY4VwRVlgVaSWLNxaoObaHRS0aAisWEALw_wcB

https://express.google.com/u/0/prod...lBi-39OWlrYSFdmwUz6pk-bPGInXMkR4aAq3IEALw_wcB

 

[fairuz]

You're dreaming.

??? They look the same. It's obvious MS copied their design.

I used to say the MacBook had the best hardware simply because the keyboard and trackpad were the best, and that's all that matters. That's no longer the case because Apple screwed it up. So now all it's got is macOS instead of Win10. Win10 is so trash that I have to say it's worth getting the Mac still. I'll continue being very happy with my 2015 one until USB-C actually replaces USB-A.
[doublepost=1551243884][/doublepost]

Yup. Microsoft kind of screwed itself on its own marketing here. Both the MacBook Air and the Surface Laptop 2 have a Core i5, but one is a Y-series chip, and the other a U.

MacRumors should amend the article accordingly. The Surface Laptop's CPU is only 2% faster in single-core, but 69% (nice) in multi-core.

And Intel should fix their marketing so customers pay more for the better CPUs. The names "i5" and "i7" are meaningless without all the other letters and numbers appended.

 

[dannyyankou]

It’s also not true.

What’s a cheaper one? The $999 MacBook Air? That still makes the sentence true. The MacBook Air is apple’s most affordable notebook.

The sentence also said “pricing that starts at $1,199 for the newest hardware”, which is also a true statement. The $999 MacBook Air isn’t their newest hardware.

 

[fairuz]

did someone have a bad experience in the past? Did Windows hurt you? I have had to reboot my Mac for various hangs and issues more so than I have my Surface Laptop recently...but neither is perfect. If Windows 10 was THAT bad, people would all buy Macs. I feel like you watched one too many Justin Long ads in the past and they have stuck with you for the past 10 years.

My PC runs both OSs. Yes, Windows is garbage. I confirm how bad it is every time I boot into there to run a game or something. Win7 wasn't garbage, just less refined than macOS, but Win10 is actually spyware and doesn't deserve to run.
[doublepost=1551244505][/doublepost]

double checked for you. the Surface Laptop is using a PCIe based NVME SSD.

Depending on manufacturer of the drive itself, but PCIe NVME drives are rated for 3Gbps continuous read, about 2gbps continous rights. In line with what is standard in the industry.

they're also really cheap these days. The Samsung 970 EVO for example (capable of speeds mentioned above) can be found for approximately $100 for a 250gb version.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820147741

storage has come down in price dramatically. What Apple currently has listed for upgrade prices are approximately 3-5x RETAIL prices for storage. And being NVME based, are user (not easily on the sl2) replacable / upgradable.

NVMe is only a storage protocol. Doesn't dictate performance other than some max theoretical speed.
[doublepost=1551244664][/doublepost]

Why didn’t you compare the Surface with the same spec MacBook Air in terms of storage? Oh wait, that’s because it’s $400 more expensive so you purposefully chose the 128GB model instead do make it appear like the price is similar.

Apparently the Surface also has a crappy slow SSD, according to a previous comment.

 

[yakapo]

A 500gb ssd is $70.

A $1200 laptop with a 128gb ssd is ridiculous. The only thing worse is charging $400 for the next size up.

 

[MacPDiddy]

Never thought I would say this, but that windows PC is sexier then the Mac. What a fine looking machine.

Oh, puhleeze.. lol

 

[fairuz]

unless you have a fancy brand new usbc monitor, mini display port is way more used on monitors. Plus my mini display port is 1.4... so it supports 8K.

I'm just glad my Macs have HDMI because that's the only thing that every TV, monitor, etc will take. It's silly how much Apple has fought it.
[doublepost=1551244925][/doublepost]

A 500gb ssd is $70.

A $1200 laptop with a 128gb ssd is ridiculous. The only thing worse is charging $400 for the next size up.

Storage size isn't the only spec or benchmark on an SSD. Other factors like IOps and throughput affect the price a lot more, and Apple tends to use high-end SSDs in this respect while MS uses the cheapest ones. But yes, Apple does charge well more than the parts cost for upgrades.

 

[49JC]

I don't understand why people fixate on the sticker price of things. Consider all the money you'll spend over the entire time you intend to own the product, add it all up and then see which is the less expensive option. I know a lot of Mac owners will keep their MacBooks for many years longer than the vast majority of Windows laptop users. My MacBook Air lasted me 7 years before I decided to replace it. I would rather spend $1199 on another one that will likely last me another 7 years than spend $999 every one to two years.

Of course Mac owners keep their machines longer. They almost dont have a choice. With Apple upgrading machines every 3-4 years. Usually you'll decide to upgrade again within 4-5 years but then are stuck with the decision of either buying machines that are 1-2 years old at the SAME price as when they first came out. OR you wait 1-2 years longer for the new tech.

 

[coolfactor]

I kept waiting for this article to tell me something more than I could get off of Amazon. Not sure what the point was. I didn't read any conclusion other than the MacBook cost more. How do they perform in actual use?

You were hoping for comments that there was a significant difference in performance, but the conclusion was that they performed virtually the same. There was no difference from a hardware stance.

 

[falainber]

“Popular” because corporate IT departments make us use it?

It's not like they have a choice. MacOS and Macs are not suitable for enterprise use. Besides Windows is much more popular OS regardless. Let's say just 5 times more popular without IT effect.

 

[LordVic]

NVMe is only a storage protocol. Doesn't dictate performance other than some max theoretical speed.

that is correct. I did not mean to imply otherwise.

 

[skitidetdu]

Still pathetic to put a 128gb hard drive in a laptop today. Goes for all the MacBooks

 

[pratikindia]

I don't understand why people fixate on the sticker price of things. Consider all the money you'll spend over the entire time you intend to own the product, add it all up and then see which is the less expensive option. I know a lot of Mac owners will keep their MacBooks for many years longer than the vast majority of Windows laptop users. My MacBook Air lasted me 7 years before I decided to replace it. I would rather spend $1199 on another one that will likely last me another 7 years than spend $999 every one to two years.

It's a dream with new Apple notebooks. You will spend much more in repairs.

 

[Classie]

I would like to see a comparison of the “environmental features”; is Apple as far ahead as it seems? 100% recycled materials, dangerous materials check-lists, renewable energy and so on...
If they are it shouldn’t be ignored as a major feature and reason for a higher price.

 

[ROGmaster]

Question: Do you understand the difference between Gbps (Giga bits per second) and MBps (Mega Bytes per second)?



"where the **** are you pulling that number 250MByte/sec seq"

Here: Laptop Magazine

"On the File Transfer test, the Stealth's 256GB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD took 20 seconds to duplicate 4.97GB of mixed-media files for a transfer rate of 254 megabytes per second. It was enough to dispatch the Surface Laptop 2 (203 MBps), which has the same amount of storage."


The 2018 MacBook Air SSD performance is 2.1 GBytes/sec seq reads. I misquoted above.

LoL that's the peak achievable speed while that 254 megabytes per second you quoted for the Razer Blade is a real world scenario speed. It's absolutely not the same thing.
Also according to that Crystal Disk benchmark Razer Blade's peak sequential write speed is 2352mbps which equals to 2.29Gbps which is higher than the 2.1Gbps you claimed for the Macbook Air.
[doublepost=1551256092][/doublepost]

Because it runs in 90% of personal computers.

Yeah 90% of personal computers and over 90% of business computers. Windows is even more popular when it comes to enterprise use.
And Windows 10 is quite a step up from Windows 7.
I got my new work computer(which is similar to a Mac mini, It's a Thinkcentre) last year and had 0 problems with Windows 10 in the last 8 months, it's way more stable than Window 7.

 

[Steve121178]

Never thought I would say this, but that windows PC is sexier then the Mac. What a fine looking machine.

I bought the Surface Laptop 2 a few months ago and it really does perform as well as it looks. And MacRumors failed to mention the Surface Laptop 2 has a quad-core CPU which mauls the weedy gutless CPU in the MBA.

 

[NBAasDOGG]

Only difference is that the MacBook Air is significantly more expensive, but still not spank proof! Even with its brand new iCondom layer beneath the keyboard...

 

[Steve121178]

I’m capable of fixing lots of hardware problems with laptops, but it’s such a pain to do, with the surface laptop being glued together, that I refuse to get one or recommend it to anybody.

No different to a Mac as they are not designed to be user-repaired either. If there's a problem then you have a limited warranty or just buy the 2 year extended enhanced warranty that Microsoft offer.

 

[Veinticinco]

Meh, here's my own infinitely shorter (opinion masquerading as unbiased) "review", in the form of a single all-encapsulating image comparing the oh-so-desperate-try-hard PC with the slovenly-slouchy-can't-be-bothered-to-try-hard-anymore Mac...

 

[windywalks]

This might as well be a spec sheet since there's absolutely nothing about this post (not calling it an article on purpose) that legitimately compares the two.

 

[Steve121178]

I think the reason why Microsoft Surface Laptop 2 is able to hit $999 price point (with 256GB) is that it uses much slower sub-400 MB/sec SSD. MacBook Air has much speedier SSD that exceed 2 GB/sec.

If you ask me, Apple should offer a choice of slower SSD for lower entry level pricing.

Wrong. The original Surface laptop used a slower SSD, but the Surface Laptop 2 & Surface Pro 6 uses a fast PCIe NVMe SSD. Mine has read speeds of around 1500MB/s & write speeds of around 750MB/s. Yes, it's slower than the drives used in the MBA, but it makes absolutely zero real world difference.