Apple's New Mac Pro Begins Showing Up in Benchmarks

[757015]

Incredible.

I saluted Cupertino while reading this, I was that moved.

And if the 23,000 turns out to be what it looks like, what a 12 core running at 2.7 Ghz can do, what are you going to do then?

Phil said "This is double the performance of the previous generation". This has me a bit hopeful because Apple generally doesn't make claims like this without mentioning the thing that its outperforming and showing a graph to illustrate it. Usually broad statements with round numbers like this refer to any possible configuration.

But from the "evidence" provided, it would seem as if he was comparing the 12 core CPU to a single 6 core CPU found in the current generation. Or lying. Either of which would leave many people disappointed.

I'm not too sold on the Benchmark given the huge variables at play here. Beta software on pre release hardware running a free version of a benchmarking software that was willfully uploaded? This smells a bit funny given the claims made and the (EARLY) timing of this leak. The thing won't be out for another 4-6 months if it makes it out this year.

I'm fairly certain that the few nMPs in existence aren't just available for employees to play with and install software on. Apple has their own benchmarking tools that the people with access to this machine likely use. Which leads me to believe its not genuine.

Traditionally, pro computers have relied primarily on the CPU for their computing power. But as GPU performance has dramatically increased, software developers have begun to leverage that power in their apps. With the new Mac Pro, we looked ahead and engineered an even more powerful GPU architecture. Not only does it feature a state-of-the-art AMD FirePro workstation-class GPU with up to 6GB of dedicated VRAM — it features two of them. With all that power, you’ll be able to do things like seamlessly edit full-resolution 4K video while simultaneously rendering effects in the background — and still have enough power to connect up to three high-resolution 4K displays.

His 2x CPU performance claim came before the mention of the GPUs, so this quote from Apple.com is a bit unrelated. But it's making it clear that Apple sees GPGPU as something extremely important... that needs to be taken advantage of now.

Maybe we'll see OpenCL utilized in all Apple software moving forward (wishful). Updates to Logic should arrive alongside the nMP, and that should be an great demonstration of the advantages of GPU utilization.

There were a few sessions on OpenCL at WWDC (Thursday, if you're looking at the calendar in the WWDC app) and "Working with OpenCL" has an hour long video of the session available to stream.

 

[calaverasgrande]

An 8% boost doesn't seem much until you also take PRICE into consideration. The 12-core 3.06 Mac Pro costs over $6K. So if we can get a slightly faster machine, for perhaps ⅓ of the price, that would certainly be great progress and quite amazing.

I really hope they can keep the price of the new base version Mac Pro below $2K.

I hope so too, it is after all much less metal, far fewer parts and only one CPU and 2 GFX cards. But then SSDs arent cheap and the one CPU it has is pretty pricey. I am hoping it will be under $4k with a max config.
But I am saving up $5k.
I really wish it was a more powerful machine, but what am I gonna do? I'm pretty deeply entrenched with Macs.

 

[calaverasgrande]

Apple is replacing the CPU compute engine with the GPU compute engine. Geekbench really needs to look at incorporating GPU compute into their benchmarks. Some of the benchmarks should be perfect for GPU compute, such as Mandelbrot, dot product, Blur, and so on.

In fact, I don't even know why they're using those benchmarks in the CPU side, since most people perform those functions in GPU now.

Geekbench seriously needs to be updated to move those functions into the GPU.

I know of a few 3D apps that can use the GPU to accelerate previews or even do near line renders. But most apps that I am aware of are not GPGPU capable yet. Heck Adobe's products don't even all have multiprocessor working well yet.
GPGPU is a great concept, but it's not there yet.

 

[knewsom]

"Thermal issues"? Hah, with a single heatsink and fan for the entire workstation, I'm not surprised.

It's gonna be a $5k machine. ...and I could build something that will meet my needs just as well with off-the-shelf parts, for a fifth of that cost. While I'm not surprised, I'm still bummed.

 

[cgk.emu]

I've been clock tweaking my systems since 1985 and currently have clocked tweaked Tandys, Apples, Dells, Ataris, Commodores, and an HP and DEC Alpha computers that all still run like a charm. I got > 5 clock tweaked Commodores (at least 20 years old), > 5 clock tweaked Ataris (at least 20 years old), > 15 clock tweaked Dells (about 10 years old) , a clock tweaked HP (eight years old) and > 30 clock tweaked Apples/Macs (some almost 30 years old) and others also clock tweaked. I've never had a computer to fail. As Phil might say,"Can't clock tweak my ass."

BTW: Those Apples/Macs include 2 clock tweaked Macintosh PowerBook G3 laptops that haven't failed. If one's willing to learn to always use that grey matter and always self-educate, then predictions of premature failures don't become the realities/outcomes. Fear and ignorance are choices I chose not to make.

That's great, but additional heat stresses components which WILL cause failure sooner than running them at normal clock speeds. I don't really like seeing the examples of Ataris and such, how often do you use those, and use them to capacity??

 

[Digital Skunk]

Guesstimated prices with Apple Markup
12-core processor - $3000
Proprietary W9000 - $3000 each
512GB M.2 PCIe SSD - $750
64GB RAM $2000
Other components - $1250

Total = $13,000

Even if you use a comparable graphics card to the Radeon 7770 (FirePro W5000) the price only comes down to about $8500. Then you need to add in your external thunderbolt enclosures and devices as necessary.

Seems like the new MP is an expensive proposition.

GL

I agree with you on the Geekbench issue, and I never thought to dig up the GB for the current (previous) MP running in 32 bit. Either way you look at it, it's kinda sad.

Sure it's faster, and it may even be twice as fast with optimized software, but now we are back to trying to defend and "pat-answer" away the Mac desktop's underperformance. We are back to 2005 and the PowerPC.

Users that excuse away the numbers by mentioning it's a single chip unit are really in denial. There's no reason a "workstation" class system should only come in at one core, with a max of 32GB (for a reasonable price, sure we can get 64, but look at the price) and absolutely no internal expansion.

The only thing that keeps me from not just throwing up my hands and watching Windows 8 tutorials is my bold assumption that this machine is just for iMac and Macbook Pro users who want more power, and already suffer from the desk clutter that TBolt/USB/FW cases give.

And let's hope that the price you mentioned isn't the case either. There' NO WAY IN HELL that machine should be upwards of $8k. At that price I can get the Dell Precision T7600 with 16 cores and 64GB of RAM. Fully expandable to 128GBs and 24 cores. For a price of course . . . . and with Windows.

I am just REALLY crossing my fingers for under $3k ($2999) for at least an 8 core version with dual 2GB GPUs. and 256GB SSD.

-hh

All good points, I totally agree and reading this made my afternoon.

 

[Umbongo]

There's no reason a "workstation" class system should only come in at one core, with a max of 32GB (for a reasonable price, sure we can get 64, but look at the price) and absolutely no internal expansion.

64GB of RAM is pretty much the same as 32GB (8GBx4) per GB - 16GB DIMMs are $120.

32GB DIMMs may come down a fair bit too with the RAM dealers who target the Mac community stepping in. I've seen 1333MHz ones for as little as $400.

 

[Digital Skunk]

64GB of RAM is pretty much the same as 32GB (8GBx4) per GB - 16GB DIMMs are $120.

32GB DIMMs may come down a fair bit too with the RAM dealers who target the Mac community stepping in. I've seen 1333MHz ones for as little as $400.

That's good to know. I was under the impression that the16GB DIMMs still cost 5 quarts of O positive blood and the horn of a unicorn.

 

[PunkNugget]

This is why all of you should build this:

GEEKBENCH SCORE: 24,818 @ $2,300 (Current MacPro $9,899!!!)
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/287857-new-macmod-2013-build-lemon-lime-twist/

Or if you want the BEST you can build this BEAST:

GEEKBENCH SCORE: 36,918 @ $5,500 (Current MacPro: There isn't one as they couldn't fit all of this stuff in there and if they could it would cost $16,500 or at least that's how much a BOXX Technologies PC would cost)
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/277433-punknuggets-mod-the-hackinbeast/

Actually Tutor is the record holder with a GB score of 40,100 !!! When you stay humble and ask for help and find ways to pay it forward, you can make anything happen. This is coming from a N00B who only built 3 of these machines. So I'm not an expert by any means, but the way they're built... well, I'll let you guys be the judge. Lastly, here's an updated pic of THE HACKINBEAST; or now should I say - THE ULTRABEAST !!!.

I now have 3 GPUs: 2 x EVGA GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper GPUs (3GB each of RAM) & 1 x Tesla nVidia C2070 (6GB of RAM). I even have a custom EK waterblock for that 2070 card.

I'm certainly grateful that I'm able to have a machine like this and my hope is that others can do this for themselves as well. There's a great community of people here and if you're really interested please PM me or comment here and I'll help you as best as I can so you too can have a similar machine. Later...

 

[AidenShaw]

64GB of RAM is pretty much the same as 32GB (8GBx4) per GB - 16GB DIMMs are $120.

32GB DIMMs may come down a fair bit too with the RAM dealers who target the Mac community stepping in. I've seen 1333MHz ones for as little as $400.

That's good to know. I was under the impression that the16GB DIMMs still cost 5 quarts of O positive blood and the horn of a unicorn.

Crucial wants $220 for a 16 GiB DIMM (http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT16G3ERSDD4186D).

 

[GermanyChris]

Crucial wants $220 for a 16 GiB DIMM (http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT16G3ERSDD4186D).

I paid about $140 for my Samsung’s

 

[prezasti]

From the Apple Website:

When we began work on the next Mac Pro, we considered every element that defines a pro computer — graphics, storage, expansion, processing power, and memory. And we challenged ourselves to find the best, most forward-looking way possible to engineer each one of them. When we put it all together, the result was something entirely new. Something radically different from anything before it. Something that provides an extremely powerful argument against the status quo. Here’s a sneak peek at what’s next for the pro computer.

Engineered around workstation graphics with dual GPUs, PCI Express-based flash storage, high-performance Thunderbolt 2, new-generation Xeon processors, ultrafast memory, and support for 4K video, the new Mac Pro delivers state-of-the-art performance across the board.

The new Mac Pro is muscle through and through, starting with the new-generation Intel Xeon E5 chipset. With configurations offering up to 12 cores of processing power, up to 40GB/s of PCI Express gen 3 bandwidth, and 256-bit-wide floating-point instructions, you’ll never be at a loss for speed.

Obviously Apply believes this to be a major upgrade in Pro Technology. I don't see why everyone is arguing over this first benchmark test. Until these are released, I wouldn't put much faith in the first benchmarks.

 

[AidenShaw]

I paid about $140 for my Samsung’s

Were they 1866 MHz Registered ECC DIMMs?

 

[MacVidCards]

From the Apple Website:







Obviously Apply believes this to be a major upgrade in Pro Technology. I don't see why everyone is arguing over this first benchmark test. Until these are released, I wouldn't put much faith in the first benchmarks.

Obviously you don't know the meaning of marketing and hype. Imagine if they told the truth.

"We at Apple have gotten filthy, stinking rich selling phones. Hundred dollar bills fall on us like rain in a rain forest. There is nothing we abhor more than a product that can be changed by our customers. This is especially true when this meddlesome fiddling results in greater value that lengthens a product's useful life. Thus we set out to turn our flagship product into something more fitting for our purposes. At first we just made it into a tiny box but Phil said he'd feel foolish walking on stage with it. So we needed a gimmick. We needed to make removing all those capabilities into an asset. Phil wadded up the plans for the tiny box and threw them into the trash. And we all stared. At this great moment Jony picked up a small fan on a nearby desk and set it on top of the trash can. "I think we've found our gimmick gentlemen !!!"

And thus the decontented Pro was born. We were so pleased we immediately voted to give each other 1 million more shares of stock and sent the can & fan to engineering to flesh out. Then we moved on to planning the next company picnic"

See, their version is much more appealing.

 

[prezasti]

Obviously you don't know the meaning of marketing and hype. Imagine if they told the truth.

"We at Apple have gotten filthy, stinking rich selling phones. Hundred dollar bills fall on us like rain in a rain forest. There is nothing we abhor more than a product that can be changed by our customers. This is especially true when this meddlesome fiddling results in greater value that lengthens a product's useful life. Thus we set out to turn our flagship product into something more fitting for our purposes. At first we just made it into a tiny box but Phil said he'd feel foolish walking on stage with it. So we needed a gimmick. We needed to make removing all those capabilities into an asset. Phil wadded up the plans for the tiny box and threw them into the trash. And we all stared. At this great moment Jony picked up a small fan on a nearby desk and set it on top of the trash can. "I think we've found our gimmick gentlemen !!!"

And thus the decontented Pro was born. We were so pleased we immediately voted to give each other 1 million more shares of stock and sent the can & fan to engineering to flesh out. Then we moved on to planning the next company picnic"

See, their version is much more appealing.

My point is everyone freaking out about the first benchmark and the actual product isn't even available for purchase yet. These early benchmarks aren't necessarily going to be the same benchmarks as the final product. These are only benchmarks from prototypes and test machines.

I work with and own several mac products and apple hasn't over hyped the actual performance on any of them. If the released product still proves to perform less than expected, then yes, Apple wasn't truthful with the performance expectations they advertised, but there is no reason to fret about this benchmark test.

 

[GroundLoop]

And let's hope that the price you mentioned isn't the case either. There' NO WAY IN HELL that machine should be upwards of $8k. At that price I can get the Dell Precision T7600 with 16 cores and 64GB of RAM. Fully expandable to 128GBs and 24 cores. For a price of course . . . . and with Windows.

I am just REALLY crossing my fingers for under $3k ($2999) for at least an 8 core version with dual 2GB GPUs. and 256GB SSD.

Well if you look at the existing prices for the Sandy Bridge EP 8 Core processors (v1), the prices range from $1000 to $2100 before the typical 33% Apple processor premium. You would have to expect that the v2 versions would be roughly the same. So you are looking at $1333 to $2793 for the processor alone. Apple currently charges $300 for a 256GB upgrade in the Macbook Air. This is a lower performing version of the drive so expect another 33% on top of that upgrade price ($400). 2GB FirePro W5000 cards run about $450 each ($600 with the Apple markup). 32GB of 1866 Registered ECC DDR3 runs about $400 at crucial (Apple will easily charge $800 for this).

So with to bottom 8-core processor, I would estimate the system would cost:
Processor - $1333
256GB M.2 SSD - $300
2xFirePro W5000 - $1200
32GB RAM - $800
Other components - $750 (case/power supply/MB/TB controllers/fan/etc)

Total ~$4400

Unless Apple is going to sacrifice its existing margins, 8-core machines are going to be expensive as well. Get your RAM someplace else and bring it down to an even $4k.

GL

 

[JM-Prod]

Let the campaign start. If this is to be a top of the line workstation. We need dual CPU's as an option for 3D and other computing intensive tasks. Dual OpenCL GPU calculators are cool, and a good move for cutting nVidia CUDA dominans, but we also need dual CPU's. And lastly Apple will need to work with Red for enabeling post-production pros to use a Red Rocket X without limitations. If these issues can be solved, it would make the new MacPro a totally worthy current-gen workstation replacement.

 

[AidenShaw]

Let the campaign start. If this is to be a top of the line workstation. We need dual CPU's as an option for 3D and other computing intensive tasks. Dual OpenCL GPU calculators are cool, and a good move for cutting nVidia CUDA dominans, but we also need dual CPU's. And lastly Apple will need to work with Red for enabeling post-production pros to use a Red Rocket X without limitations. If these issues can be solved, it would make the new MacPro a totally worthy current-gen workstation replacement.

And if not, the Mac Pro will still be a totally worthy upgrade from a Mac Mini.

 

[Umbongo]

Crucial wants $220 for a 16 GiB DIMM (http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT16G3ERSDD4186D).

Because Crucial are the only ones selling 1866MHz ECC at the moment as there is no market for it. They are always more expensive on ECC memory, their 1600MHz DIMMs are $200 where you can buy Samsung and Hynix 1600MHz for $120. Once Samsung and Hynix start filling retail channels in late August/September it'll be cheaper to get 64GB 1866MHz ECC than it is today.

 

[MacVidCards]

And if not, the Mac Pro will still be a totally worthy upgrade from a Mac Mini.

It is a pity that they couldn't have been more forthright in their communication.

If they had just said "We are no longer interested in a true Pro level workstation but are replacing it with the Mini Pro" (or Pro Jr. or Pro LE or Pro Lite) there would be alot less ire and it would have been better all around.

The disingenuous "we listened to Pros and made them what they asked for" when the truth is "We listened to Pros but gave them what we decided is better for us" is creating alot of friction. Their approach is dishonest from the get go and fools nobody.

 

[Tutor]

That's great, but additional heat stresses components which WILL cause failure sooner than running them at normal clock speeds.

Your observation is too general, e.g., 1) How much additional heat WILL cause premature failure? 2) How much sooner will premature failure occur? 3) Does that mean that my 20+ year old Video Toasters would have lasted until 2015 if they [now about 20 years old] failed tomorrow, but for my overclocking them? 4) What is the TDP of the processors? 5) What are their normal clock speeds? 6) Are ALL processors running at factory set speeds running so fast that any amount of overclocking is dangerous? Moreover, you just assumed that one lacks the ability to make adaptations, if necessary, to keep overclocked systems safe. See, e.g., in post # 534, above, the excellent clock tweaked system that Punknugget displays and he has one of the fastest, if not the very fastest, 6-core Hackintosh on the planet. But don't let that further confuse you because not all Hackintoshers are over/under clockers and certainly not all over/under clockers are Hackintoshers.

I don't really like seeing the examples of Ataris and such, how often do you use those, and use them to capacity??

When they were new I used all of them all of the time, i.e., daily at full capacity, but given some of their speeds - now I use the slower ones, with the exception of the Atari 040 (for music) and the Commodore systems with Video Toaster cards (for video effects) which I use daily, just occasionally. The point, which obviously escapes you, is that my clock tweaking my computers hasn't cut short any of their useful lives. Moreover, I expected that you would not like my examples of my overclocked systems of all kinds running without any problem many, many years after I overclocked them, so your response, "I don't really like seeing the examples of Ataris and such," comes as no surprise. But, are you saying that your general observation doesn't apply to Ataris and such because they have Motorola processors, or that having clock tweaked systems of all kinds running, without issue, longer than most keep them doesn't show the imprecision of your observation or that your general observation applies only to Apple computers or only to Mac Pros????

 

[Tutor]

This is why all of you should build this:

GEEKBENCH SCORE: 24,818 @ $2,300 (Current MacPro $9,899!!!)
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/287857-new-macmod-2013-build-lemon-lime-twist/
... .

Congrats on that 6-core that runs fast as hell-fire, but is as cool as ice, and looks fantastic.

 

[handsome pete]

Obviously Apply believes this to be a major upgrade in Pro Technology.

There's certainly room left for real analysis, especially when they're finally released. But then again, this is a rumors site. It would be pretty boring if we all just had a "rah rah" attitude towards every announcement.

And I think you're giving way too much credit to the Apple marketing machine. Let's wait until we can apply this to real world work until we come to any conclusions.

 

[cobie8]

really? this is pro performance?

let's see... who'd want to buy something that costs beyond $2k, no internal upgradeability options, and a little over the next gen MBP??? um, certainly not me. i'd gladly spend $4k on a mac pro, but one that doesn't require me to buy EVEN MORE stuff to upgrade simple things like storage.

i've been a loyal apple fan since 1995, and defended the original g3 series machines against our windows bretheren but this is just difficult to defend.

I don't understand how apple can define "pro" by choosing options for those particular people. "pro" has been downgraded to "prosumer" and i think the mac pro is the last draw for me. i've already switched some of my cloud stuff on the PC where they have options for more powerful compute.

at the end of the day, the only thing apple will have is the "cool" factor, but I will tell you now, universities will be driven even more to PCs. i don't see institutions like Virginia Tech ever attempting something like a PowerMac supercomputing cluster (circa 2004) again with these stunts from apple. now those were the days when "pro" users defined the product, not apple defining the product for "pro" users.

it's sad because my university actually began recommending and adopting macs for faculty and students in the late 2000s, but are now backtracking because of the diminished "utility and functionality" of macs.

the cool factor will eventually go away, stock/company value will sink, and then it might be too late. i'll keep my upgradeable macs until they no longer run, unless apple backtracks and begins balancing utility and functionality with aesthetics and looks.

somebody please stop the insanity going on at apple. i like tim cook but maybe he needs to go. i also like jon ive but somebody please calm him down.

 

[OatmealRocks]

This is why all of you should build this:


Image

That is pretty sweet and from what reading the link it took the guy months to build it. I can only imagine how much more time he took to assess which parts to buy and the time spent going to get the parts. I get it, all part of the 'FUN' into building and continually tweak and make it better or maintain it.

And of course it is going to be cheaper. I build PCs for personal use when I was younger but what professional have time to pick parts, build the computer and support it? It is fair to say from reading this thread Pro-Sumer thinks they are Professional and making a lot of noise. Further more, compared to the old MP top bench mark, I think CPU spec wise it is a fair increase.