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Point is it is stupid that someone lock into one ecosystem, especially one that is wall gardened.

Not for me. I don't think it's stupid at all. It's served me well for over ten year and I prefer Apple's walled garden approach because their products and services integrate and work so much better together because of it.

And like the previous poster pointed out, I'll gladly pay extra if it means more security, tighter integration, and more convenience, all of which I find in great value in Apple's ecosystem.
 
You don't wanna call it theft? Lets call it a rip off, lets call it milking the userbase, a disservice to the music industry and a disservice to artists. 0% profits on Mac from Spotify, 30% profits on iOS at the expense of artists. It's as clear as that and it's wrong. So please Apple, don't even try to pass this off as you caring about artists.

It's about greed and killing the competition's free tier.


So oblivious. You're ranting about rip offs and greed while you want free music from artists who apparently aren't entitled to get paid.
 
Getting really annoyed at people calling this 'Anti Competitive'. There's nothing illegal about this. But also, since when has businesses competing been such a bad thing? Businesses SHOULD be anti-competitive.
This is ridiculous. You are actually confusing being competitive with being anti-competitive.

It's absolutely fine to do things that are bad for your competitors. For example, improving your product. Reducing prices. Advertising. All bad for your competitors, and all absolutely fine. Anti-competitive behaviour is something that makes it impossible for your competitor to compete. Something that isn't against your competitor, but against competition per se.
 
So oblivious. You're ranting about rip offs and greed while you want free music from artists who apparently aren't entitled to get paid.

Spotify's current model isn't perfect, but Apple is the worst offender by far, and that's my point. Taking a 30% cut from Spotify is far more detrimental to the industry than anything 'nice' Apple is trying to do with their proposal.

Because even if Apple gets their way and gets 9.1 cents per 100 plays, they will still be profiting 30% from Spotify and not passing that out to artists, NOT A SINGLE CENT from that 30%.
 
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Where have I heard it before, about Apple trying to manipulate media pricing unethically... and even illegally?

Oh yea "United States of America v. Apple Inc., et al., 12 Civ. 2862 (DLC), was a US antitrust case in which the Court held that Apple Inc. conspired to raise the price of e-books in violation of the Sherman Act."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Apple_Inc.

So now petitioning the Government is "unethical and illegal"? Seriously? Are you really trying to compare this completely legal act to collusion?
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Spotify's current model isn't perfect, but Apple is the worst offender by far, and that's my point. Taking a 30% cut from Spotify is far more detrimental to the industry than anything 'nice' Apple is trying to do with their proposal.

Because even if Apple gets their way and gets 9.1 cents per 100 plays, they will still be profiting 30% from Spotify and not passing that out to artists, NOT A SINGLE CENT from that 30%.

They're selling something in their storefront. Either Spotify can get over it or get out. Do you think people should get to sell things in a storefront without paying anything?
 
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They're selling something in their storefront. Either Spotify can get over it or get out. Do you think people should get to sell things in a storefront without paying anything?

You missed the point, it's not about Spotify, it's about Apple's intentions to supposedly fight for artists and give them 9.1 cents out of 100 plays. If they truly cared about artists, how can they face artists and tell them "hey guys we got you 9.1 cents per 100 plays, but we are still profiting 30% from your art from the most popular streaming platform in the world, cheers!

Get it? Apple cares ZERO about artists. This latest move is just about killing the competition's free tier so that Apple music comes up on top.
 
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What people ignore is that Apple doesn't charge "cost plus some profit" for putting your app on the app store, they charge "percentage of revenue". The rules are are the same for everyong. It's a brilliant deal for anyone who wants to publish a free app, for fun, or for helping their physical business. It's a brilliant deal for anyone who publishes a free app to sell physical goods, like eBay. It's a very good deal for everyone who wants to sell their app in the traditional way, like companies producing games, who get hosting, sales in 100 countries, payment and tax handling in 100 countries, all for a good price.

And it's not a good deal for very few companies who are in some form reselling goods from a third party, and who have to pass a large percentage of their revenue to that third party. Tough. When you develop a business model, the first thing you need to do is to check if it can make you money. If it doesn't make you money, don't start whining, choose a different business model.
Yes, so very much this. There is an awful lot of whining that "it isn't fair, because Spotify can't make a profit". As though Apple somehow sits on Spotify's board of directors and is responsible for running their company. Spotify chose to get into music streaming, okay fine, lots of companies trying that. Then Spotify chose to put an app in Apple's App Store, which was up and running and had an established set of rules and clear pricing structure. Apple isn't the villain taking a 30% cut away from the artists, Spotify is the one who put themselves and the artists in that position, knowing full well what the App Store's terms were before they submitted their app. Apple recently entered the streaming market - if Spotify was blindsided by this, that's their fault - the idea that the leading seller of digital music might eventually try out the distribution method that has been gaining popularity... that was pretty predictable. Is this unfortunate for Spotify? Sure. Sucks to be them. Is it unfair to Spotify? Absolutely not. Does Apple have an advantage here? Sure. Apple designed, built, and popularized an entire multi-billion-dollar ecosystem, and one of the side effects of that is Apple doesn't have to pay itself to play in that ecosystem. If Spotify would like a similar advantage (thus the "level playing field" so many are clamoring for), they are free to design, build, and popularize their own phone and operating system.

Spotify already had an Underpants Gnome business model: Step 1, provide people with music to listen to (which costs the company money) without charging those people money; Step 2, ????; Step 3, profit!

Spotify has succeeded in convincing the majority of their users that what they're "selling" has no monetary cost, so their "free tier" customers don't want to pay them actual money. This is the result Spotify's stupendous lack of planning and unrealistic business model, not Apple being unfair.
 
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You missed the point, it's not about Spotify, it's about Apple's intentions to supposedly fight for artists and give them 9.1 cents out of 100 plays. If they truly cared about artists, how can they face artists and tell them "hey guys we got you 9.1 cents per 100 plays, but we are still profiting 30% from your art from the most popular streaming platform in the world, cheers!

Get it? Apple cares ZERO about artists. This latest move is just about killing the competition's free tier so that Apple music comes up on top.

If the free tier dies, Spotify is a profitable business. How does that tie into your theory?
 
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You missed the point, it's not about Spotify, it's about Apple's intentions to supposedly fight for artists and give them 9.1 cents out of 100 plays. If they truly cared about artists, how can they face artists and tell them "hey guys we got you 9.1 cents per 100 plays, but we are still profiting 30% from your art from the most popular streaming platform in the world, cheers!
SPOTIFY chose to write a streaming music app and put it in Apple's App Store, knowing full well that Apple charged 30% for all transactions, whether initial app purchase, in-app purchase, or subscription purchase (the reason for the across-the-board pricing is pretty obvious, if they'd made any one of the avenues cost less, pretty soon all the apps would use the cheapest avenue, even if it wasn't the best choice for the customers - unless you want subscription-based calculator apps). The artists did not force Spotify to put an app in the App Store. Apple did not come to Spotify and put a gun to Spotify's head and demand they put an app in the store. Spotify chose to put an app in the store, knowing full well the terms of the deal ahead of time. They are the ones you should be directing your anger towards. Apparently you're using the "I was only following orders" defense for Spotify, and holding them blameless for this situation that Spotify has created.
 



Apple has submitted a proposal to the U.S. Copyright Royalty Board calling for a simplified way to pay songwriters and music publishers for streaming music, according to Billboard. While the change would benefit labels, artists and publishers, it would make it more difficult for streaming services like Spotify to continue offering free tiers.

applemusic.jpg

Apple's suggested rate is 9.1 cents per 100 plays, which would make the songwriting royalties for 100 streams equal to the royalties for a single song download. However, the change would make it more expensive for companies like Spotify and YouTube to offer free music tiers.

The current system sees streaming companies paying songwriters and publishers between 10.5 and 12 percent of their revenue using what Billboard terms a "complicated formula." The money is then divided into public performance and mechanical royalties, which is then paid to publishers and "collected societies." Currently, Apple and other streaming music providers don't have to pay publishers the statutory rate set by the Royalty Board because they can negotiate their own deals. However, negotiations between publishers and streaming services would start at a different place should Apple's proposal become rule.

The Copyright Royalty Board, which is made up of a panel of three judges, is still in the early stages of determining potential statuary rates for 2018 to 2022 so it's unclear whether Apple's proposal would take hold or ever come to be.

While Apple Music has garnered about 15 million paying subscribers in the year since its launch, rival Spotify has twice as many, with the company citing Apple's entrance into paid music streaming as a boon to its business. Despite user and revenue growth, Spotify continues to operate at a loss due to expensive royalties and revenue sharing with music labels, with recent losses growing 10 percent to $195.7 million.

Article Link: Apple's New Music Royalty Proposal Would Make Streaming Costlier for Free Services Like Spotify


This proposed streaming rate will actually solve something significant in this business and give artists a fighting shot at making an actual living. Anyone who has a problem with this is either part of a competitive streaming service or confused.

As someone in this business, this is a great start. Doing some math, 1,500,000 plays equals $13,650. Not to shabby. I see streaming royalty wars coming for exclusives... If it isn't happening already. Apple offers artists higher streaming rates and the artist goes with them. Really that simple.

It's incredible to me that the same person that will demand an artist make the bulk of their money through touring will then complain about ticket prices.

Considering how hostile streaming sites are to musicians in general, this is a breath of fresh air.
 
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SPOTIFY chose to write a streaming music app and put it in Apple's App Store, knowing full well that Apple charged 30% for all transactions, whether initial app purchase, in-app purchase, or subscription purchase (the reason for the across-the-board pricing is pretty obvious, if they'd made any one of the avenues cost less, pretty soon all the apps would use the cheapest avenue, even if it wasn't the best choice for the customers - unless you want subscription-based calculator apps). The artists did not force Spotify to put an app in the App Store. Apple did not come to Spotify and put a gun to Spotify's head and demand they put an app in the store. Spotify chose to put an app in the store, knowing full well the terms of the deal ahead of time. They are the ones you should be directing your anger towards. Apparently you're using the "I was only following orders" defense for Spotify, and holding them blameless for this situation that Spotify has created.

Apple can change policies any time they want. In fact they changed policies right now at WWDC. If they truly cared about artists they wouldn't get 30% cut from streaming services like Spotify, Pandora, etc. Period. This latest attempt by Apple to change pricing is not to serve artists, it's to manipulate the competition to serve Apple's own interests. And that's my only point in this thread.
 
If you like a music service, pay for it. Too many people now think that they are entitled to free stuff.

Please don't accuse or assume things if you don't know the person, I'm personally paying for a streaming service. But I value the free tier because that's how I was able to learn and appreciate the service, among other things.
 
Music streaming is scummy. It's a race to the bottom that is disenchanting aspiring musicians and songwriters, turning them away from making music altogether. Streaming needs to be eliminated. Stop appealing to the scuzzy, scummy people who just want everything for free or as close to it as they can get. These services are reducing music's worth to mere pennies per song then turning around and greedily lapping up those pennies when they can get them. It's a race to the bottom.

If Apple really wanted to do the right thing for the music industry they would kill Apple Music streaming entirely and raise the price to download a song to $2 each. The industry should have the balls to follow. Artists should receive a 50% royalty paid to them directly. If you kill the incentive for the music makers, you kill music.
 
Please don't accuse or assume things if you don't know the person, I'm personally paying for a streaming service. But I value the free tier because that's how I was able to learn and appreciate the service, among other things.

Then you really shouldn't care about the free services. Free tiers are not needed anymore since everyone is now is familiar with the music services. Music services do not have contracts and you can drop them at any time.
 
Apple has opened up a platform, now either it makes it fully open, non discriminatory and competitive or just close it down entirely.
I think you're misunderstanding when you say, "Apple has opened a platform", as if they have cast it into the public domain as a gift. They haven't. When you go into a business establishment, can you do anything you want? No. They have rules. You want to stay in that establishment, you follow those rules. You're presenting two alternatives: fully ungoverned anarchy where anyone can do whatever they want without consequence, or just shut the doors and turn off the lights. Most of us prefer a middle ground, which also happens to be reality: Apple built a great ecosystem of software and hardware that works together, along with a market for software which anyone can participate in, if they follow a long list of established rules, including the rule that Apple gets paid if you sell digital goods within the market.
 
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If Apple chose to pay more that's their own decision, but they're knowingly hurting the competition by doing this. Streaming music is expensive and Spotify's free tier cannot cover a higher fee. They pay the royalties they need but this would hard blow to them. It's extremely anti-competitive of Apple's sake to stick their nose in business that's not theirs.

How the hell is this anti-competitive, what about the guys selling their music? Can't sell their own music at any price they see fit? Seriously? If want to accept less, that's their choice; but if they don't they now have an option to sell it for more. That's capitalism at work.

If Apple is bidding more and STILL making money off it, well then the other players just can suck it up, or not get that music. Apple is not preventing the others from spending the same amount are they?
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Also what people fail to mention is that a service such as YouTube really help artists/bands get a lot of exposure. This exposure is worth more than getting a little bit more in royalties. Though YouTube does pay royalties fair and square.

Right.. Talk to actual musicians about that fallacy.
Exposure means nothing if you have to tour 300 dates a year to make a living.
 
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If they truly cared about artists they wouldn't get 30% cut from streaming services like Spotify, Pandora, etc. Period.
So Spotify created a bad situation, and if Apple doesn't fix said mess (by giving Spotify free money), you see Apple as being at fault? Interesting math.
 
Then you really shouldn't care about the free services. Free tiers are not needed anymore since everyone is now is familiar with the music services. Music services do not have contracts and you can drop them at any time.

I strongly disagree, plenty of people are still with the traditional mindset of purchasing music and have not truly given streaming music a chance, free tier is perfect for them. Plus plenty of people that like the 'radio' model, like the free tier, they don't mind the advertising and limitations of this but still enjoy it.
 
Also what people fail to mention is that a service such as YouTube really help artists/bands get a lot of exposure. This exposure is worth more than getting a little bit more in royalties.
This argument was also one of the main ones used by people looting music in the Napster days. "Well, this is getting them exposure, so it's actually a good thing." (How about maybe letting the musicians choose their business plan themselves?)
 
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