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But the TL;DR: if you're setting up a workstation for heavy-duty work, such as movies, animation, databasing, etc., you will notice very little difference in your workflow going from Mac to PC unless you are depending on platform-specific software.

Slight twist on it from an independent artist's standpoint.
I don't do super heavy duty work on my Mac Pro, mostly Photoshop, Lightroom, and some Premiere but I know I'd see a huge difference in "workflow" if I switched to Windows. I keep Windows on my Mac Pro and have tried what I do on the Mac side only to get less than stellar results. I keep looking for Expose, show desktop, or finding my other spaces. Windows just doesn't have the same ease of finding things as I've found Apple does.
 
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Slight twist on it from an independent artist's standpoint.
I don't do super heavy duty work on my Mac Pro, mostly Photoshop, Lightroom, and some Premiere but I know I'd see a huge difference in "workflow" if I switched to Windows. I keep Windows on my Mac Pro and have tried what I do on the Mac side only to get less than stellar results. I keep looking for Expose, show desktop, or finding my other spaces. Windows just doesn't have the same ease of finding things as I've found Apple does.

My friend, you're in luck with Windows 10.

Exposé => Windows-Tab
Alternate Desktops => (Tab when you're in Task View above)
Show Desktop => Windows-D
File Explorer also has "Cut" for cut and paste, which I also find handy.

Also, Windows has excellent window snapping. On a Mac, I made use of Spectacle to get the same functionality.

I'm not even an advocate of Windows. It's fine. I'd be happy to use a Mac for just about everything. But Microsoft has done an excellent job with making Windows 10 an incredibly stable default for PC use.

And, as always, if someone is putting together a machine for heavy Photoshop use, say, I'd say use what meets your needs. I think a mid-range iMac is excellent. I think a Mac has obvious advantages for audio production. But a modular PC has many plusses, too. Windows ain't the worst part.
 
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I think Apple is aiming for better scalability with the new ... errr modular Mac Pro. With the old cheese grater design, even the lowest-specced model boasted the same big tower housing with lots of expansion card and drive slots and PSU behemoth of the top models. Good for economies of scale, but a lot of wasted resources for the buyer, who pays for parts he might never need.

Thus I expect the mMP to offer a (perhaps slightly proprietary or different from Thunderbolt 3 for performance reasons) connector system for boxes you can stick together like blocks of Lego.
  • Need more Ram? Get a Ram expansion module.
  • CPU power insufficient? Get a new CPU box.
  • The drive box offers another 4 drive slots (3.5") and for that new, huge graphic card we have this nice PCIe expansion box. Oh and did you already take a look at this new iDevice docking box?
  • One part broken? Take it out and replace it with a functioning module. No need to send in the whole Tower, with all your data still in there.
  • And it's easy to expand - no need for static precautions, no need to work inside the techno-guts. And in good Apple tradition, the individual boxes are nicely glued down - of course only to prevent the user accidentally getting in there and damaging his equipment ("Hey - we have a reputation to lose!").
There have been similar attempts to do this in the past, which usually failed due to cost reasons. But if a customer target group is able and willing to pay big dollar, it's Apple's. So Apple may find success this time.
wow, sounds like a professionals nightmare. But yeah that might be what some beanconting experts were dreaming up.
 
All video editors, all colorists and all audio people i know (including myself) like to put fans *away from their face*. Apple then builds a stupid powerful machine and the only way to put it in a machine room (because most professional environments have one) is to waste the 5K display on it.
Obviously, the upcoming Mac Pro will remove that objection.
 
wow, sounds like a professionals nightmare. But yeah that might be what some beanconting experts were dreaming up.
Imho a good Professional would rather appreciate such an approach: Each component can be easily replaced in case of damage and the performance of the system can be as easily improved, perhaps even temporary (renting system), all without having to be an IT Pro. The customer can also adjust the system better to individual needs.

Perhaps you could explain in more detail which group of Professionals you have in mind and why that group would perceive such a system as “nightmare”?
 
Imho a good Professional would rather appreciate such an approach: Each component can be easily replaced in case of damage and the performance of the system can be as easily improved, perhaps even temporary (renting system), all without having to be an IT Pro. The customer can also adjust the system better to individual needs.

Perhaps you could explain in more detail which group of Professionals you have in mind and why that group would perceive such a system as “nightmare”?

The main problem with such a solution, as I see it, is this: how can we trust apple will update the modules in a timely matter. Short answer: we can’t. I think the system you described would be DOA.

Not to mention the prices will be most likely twice those of standard pc counterparts. This is not speculation, it’s already happening with the eGPU designed in partnership with blackmagic.

That said, I think we’ll get something like you proposed, or at least that was the intention when they started to design it, no other reason for a delay that long since april 2017.
 
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I'm eager to perceive what they have in store for the Mac Pro. I'm in the market for an iMac and think they'll have a decent refresh to that also in 2019. Hopefully!
 
Not to mention the prices will be most likely twice those of standard pc counterparts. This is not speculation, it’s already happening with the eGPU designed in partnership with blackmagic.


The model with a Vega 54 is actually THREE times the cost of a standard Vega 64...!
 
The model with a Vega 54 is actually THREE times the cost of a standard Vega 64...!

On newegg, both 56 and 64 are around 400$...
add at least 350$ for an eGPU enclosure (cheapest option, Razer or Asus).
So the markup in that case (cheapest possible) is 450$, which is not 3 times the cost.

it is 3 times in case you buy a GPU and put it on top of a Mini/MacBook without connecting it anywhere.

(+ there is no thunderbolt to drive the LG 5K with that solution, and 27" 5K displays are very scarce)
 
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I guess the point is, "hey. look what $10k can get me in a PC"; and then the question is, what will that same $10k get you from Apple in a headless workstation...?!?

Right. As you found with PartsPicker, it's actually hard to even create a $10,000 PC that is something workable. My critque is that the PC you created just wasn't a good build. You don't put all that diverse storage on a single PC, but typically on a rack-mounted server, which would need a server class processor and chip.

You could decide to build a game machine and intend, for instance, to ONLY use it to play Overwatch at FHD, and then put a dual-core Celeron with an Nvidia RTX 2080 video card. You'd be spending three times as much to get the same result as a build 1/3 the cost.

You put a Threadripper on the PC, which is a game-changer in the PC builder world. It's technically a budget card, compared to Xeon builds. You can build a machine for $3,000 with a pro graphics card and SSD storage that is a movie-editing powerhouse.

I think Apple is contractually obligated to use Xeon chips for their MacPros, which will put them at a disadvantage. They can engineer in overclocked Vega cards and make it technically a bargain for the relative parts and engineering.

Apple is stuck on this trajectory since Jobs' vision was that everything was going to pivot around iOS. He dismissed PC boxes as "trucks," which certainly sent a buzzing in my ear as I was surrounded by MacPros doing MacPro things.

Apple wants to sell you a Navistar rig. For some very specific tasks, you need a Navistar rig. But for much of when small businesses or tradesmen need a truck, a Toyota pickup is going to actually do everything you need it to much easier, faster, cleaner, and cheaper.
 
My friend, you're in luck with Windows 10.

Exposé => Windows-Tab
Alternate Desktops => (Tab when you're in Task View above)
Show Desktop => Windows-D
File Explorer also has "Cut" for cut and paste, which I also find handy.

Also, Windows has excellent window snapping. On a Mac, I made use of Spectacle to get the same functionality.
I'll have to revisit those shortcuts sometime. I have a love hate relationship with the snapping, its great when you need it but trying to have a "Split Screen" or small window open in the corner has just never worked out for me.
 
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Slight twist on it from an independent artist's standpoint.
I don't do super heavy duty work on my Mac Pro, mostly Photoshop, Lightroom, and some Premiere but I know I'd see a huge difference in "workflow" if I switched to Windows. I keep Windows on my Mac Pro and have tried what I do on the Mac side only to get less than stellar results. I keep looking for Expose, show desktop, or finding my other spaces. Windows just doesn't have the same ease of finding things as I've found Apple does.
As Dozer pointed out there are similar features on Windows. Another important point is that these features are mostly about personal preferences and minor conveniences. They are not critical part of the workflow.
 
As Dozer pointed out there are similar features on Windows. Another important point is that these features are mostly about personal preferences and minor conveniences. They are not critical part of the workflow.
I consider the Mac a tool just like any camera, scanner, printer, brush, paper etc. I feel most comfortable using the Mac because of the ease I feel when working on it, I don't entirely feel that ease of work on Windows. They may be minor conveniences, but they add up and you develop a muscle memory while working with them.
If my Mac Pro were to up and die I probably would begrudgingly switch to Windows so I can continue to use my CS6 Suite and I know for some time I'll keep sending the cursor to the bottom left corner to bring up Expose, or look for my dock on the left hand side.
 
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The model with a Vega 54 is actually THREE times the cost of a standard Vega 64...!

On newegg, both 56 and 64 are around 400$...
add at least 350$ for an eGPU enclosure (cheapest option, Razer or Asus).
So the markup in that case (cheapest possible) is 450$, which is not 3 times the cost.

it is 3 times in case you buy a GPU and put it on top of a Mini/MacBook without connecting it anywhere.

(+ there is no thunderbolt to drive the LG 5K with that solution, and 27" 5K displays are very scarce)

Vega 64 Reference GPU = 400 bucks

400 x 3 = 1200

BlackMagic Design Vega 54 eGPU = 1200 bucks

Which is exactly what I said where I quoted myself above...

If I had to go eGPU for macOS, I would probably get a Sonnet box, they are "Apple Approved"...

But I do not like the idea that I have to take a performance hit with a TB3 eGPU, which is why Apple better include/allow standard (and obviously, specific "Apple Blessed") GPUs in the new Mac Pro, AND why they should have gone with the i7-8809G for the Mac mini, not like they are using the latest Intel CPUs in their products anyway...

Right. As you found with PartsPicker, it's actually hard to even create a $10,000 PC that is something workable. My critque is that the PC you created just wasn't a good build. You don't put all that diverse storage on a single PC, but typically on a rack-mounted server, which would need a server class processor and chip.

I picked the best looking (IMO, tempered glass aside, I would prefer without) chassis that would hold the smallest Threadripper motherboard (of which there is a single mATX from ASRock) and filled said chassis up...!

"What can $10k get me...?"

You put a Threadripper on the PC, which is a game-changer in the PC builder world. It's technically a budget card, compared to Xeon builds. You can build a machine for $3,000 with a pro graphics card and SSD storage that is a movie-editing powerhouse.

Since I prefer SFF builds & the ITX motherboard, sadly Threadripper will not fit on ITX, it leaves room for little else...!

But there is always Ryzentosh...

I think Apple is contractually obligated to use Xeon chips for their MacPros, which will put them at a disadvantage. They can engineer in overclocked Vega cards and make it technically a bargain for the relative parts and engineering.

If true, that sucks, I would really like to see Apple just move over to AMD Zen-based CPUs...

But then the whole looming ARM thing is out there...

Apple wants to sell you a Navistar rig. For some very specific tasks, you need a Navistar rig. But for much of when small businesses or tradesmen need a truck, a Toyota pickup is going to actually do everything you need it to much easier, faster, cleaner, and cheaper.

But what if I got a SOTV-B...?!? ;^p
 
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Vega 64 Reference GPU = 400 bucks

400 x 3 = 1200

BlackMagic Design Vega 54 eGPU = 1200 bucks

Which is exactly what I said where I quoted myself above...

If I had to go eGPU for macOS, I would probably get a Sonnet box, they are "Apple Approved"...

But I do not like the idea that I have to take a performance hit with a TB3 eGPU, which is why Apple better include/allow standard (and obviously, specific "Apple Blessed") GPUs in the new Mac Pro, AND why they should have gone with the i7-8809G for the Mac mini, not like they are using the latest Intel CPUs in their products anyway...

I'm just saying your logic is flawed. You're comparing a bare-bones card to an eGPU enclosure.
with sonnet box, the price gap shrinks even further than with a razer.

8809G is Q1'18, Kaby Lake chip, 8700b is Q2'18, Coffee Lake chip, so technically newer, and also supports 2666MHz RAM (Compared to 2400MHz of the 8809G)
But yeah, that RX Radeon Vega GPU chip would have been nice, i agree, however there's no Coffee Lake desktop chips with a better GPU or the Radeon M chips.

the new mini deserves a Vega16 chip at least.
 
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Imho a good Professional would rather appreciate such an approach: Each component can be easily replaced in case of damage and the performance of the system can be as easily improved, perhaps even temporary (renting system), all without having to be an IT Pro. The customer can also adjust the system better to individual needs.

Perhaps you could explain in more detail which group of Professionals you have in mind and why that group would perceive such a system as “nightmare”?
Professionals as in people that have business that depend on and do better with more processing power, engineers, various forms of designers, some programmers, some media people etc.

With a modular Mac Pro they cannot better adjust their system to fit their overall needs, not right now and certainly not with a very reduced set of ready to plug in boxes because the availability of those boxes is going to be horrible, they will be expensive expensive and have performance implications.
the nightmare comes from:
1) Apple does not provide a proper roadmap for professionals to plan ahead, instead everything is "revealed" in some media event and it's a nightmare for planning
2) The hints that Apple does give are incredibly unreliable, take the current Mac Pro
3) Increased lock-in needs to provide increased benefits, of which a modular Mac Pro provides next to none
4) My grandad can swap a PCI card, if you cannot manage to do it and are unable to pay for someone to do it for you, you are not likely to be able to afford the "new" Mac Pro.
5) Get locked in a platform and get updates when exactly, nobody know's with Apple, and professionals that depend on them have bailed, of course.
6) Get fleeced on updates, or the next box, because they make 3 a day and odd's are they don't make one that fit's your needs
7) Various types of overhead and latency from the physics of the thing.
8) Incredible delay's and odd engineering choices to justify delays and cost, take the xeon's for example.
9) platform buy-in with no service contract and no roadmap is a ..brave route to take.
 
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Currently the only working version of an AMD Threadripper as a Hackintosh is under 10.3.3.... so far nobody has gotten it to work on any other OS version.
[doublepost=1545867763][/doublepost]

Gigabyte Z390

Well, Ryzen is a viable Hackintosh option...?

(...I just want to see an option that is not Intel on the CPU front...)

Z390...? What is / is not working...?

USB / Ethernet / WiFi / Audio / BlueTooth / etc.
 
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Apple is stuck on this trajectory since Jobs' vision was that everything was going to pivot around iOS. He dismissed PC boxes as "trucks," which certainly sent a buzzing in my ear as I was surrounded by MacPros doing MacPro things.

See, I read Job's comment about trucks / cars differently. I think Job's completely understood that a Truck was always going to be needed. there is always going to be a market for it. This "why would you need a computer" mindset from Apple really started in all Ernest post Jobs with the 2013 Mac Pro. we then saw a few years with little updates accross the computer lineup completely. it wasn't really till end of 2017/2018 did the Current Apple wake up and realize that people still need those trucks.

it's too bad that there's no real truck in the lineup. there's an El Comino or two pretending to be full trucks, that are somewhat practical, But the rest are cars.
[doublepost=1545918552][/doublepost]
I'll have to revisit those shortcuts sometime. I have a love hate relationship with the snapping, its great when you need it but trying to have a "Split Screen" or small window open in the corner has just never worked out for me.

use "Windows" plus arrow keys to snap as well to make them fit in corners/sides easier. WIN+Up Arrow to fullscreen, WIN+ Down arrow to minimize.

overall windows and MacOS are pretty much in parity with eachother from a performance standpoint. they just have different interactions than eachother to accomplish essentially the same thing. Like any migration, there will be a learning curve. I remember when I got my first Mac and was like "omg i can't use this, it's so clumsy!"
[doublepost=1545918601][/doublepost]
Well, Ryzen is a viable Hackintosh option...?

(...I just want to see an option that is not Intel on the CPU front...)

Z390...? What is / is not working...?

USB / Ethernet / WiFi / Audio / BlueTooth / etc.

I would love getting Hackintosh working on RyZen. I love my R7-1700 build. But I've never managed to get a functional Hackintosh out of it.
 
I would love getting Hackintosh working on RyZen. I love my R7-1700 build. But I've never managed to get a functional Hackintosh out of it.

Doing IT support at a University, the students who worked for me all liked playing around with old Dell E series and such, were into Hackintoshing. I gave them the best advice I could, which was that it's definitely cool to get it to work, but I said that if they're starting out in doing IT work, they'd be better off trying out different Linux versions, and customizing them. Because if they get to slam their heads in getting to know how to get the correct drivers to work with Linux, and going in and customizing Grub and .config files, mounting certain shares at boot, etc., that will serve them well if they go into IT and ever have to set up a RedHat server. Even once.

I have to say, as an old Mac user/IT-supporter, I find there is something a little OCD-ish about people who insist that their bozoputer must run the MacOS interface in 2019. I mean, look: you can install Windows 10 and get full support, and Adobe CS will be exactly the same, minus minor keyboard interfaces. Ditto for Microsoft Office, and — dare I say? — LibreOffice, too. Everything else is practically done through the browser these days, and there is effectively no difference.

There are people who legit do not want to deal with Microsoft, and maybe are a little tin-foily about big corporations like Microsoft holding their data. I hear them. I'm not as paranoid, (but they are at least half-right about their concerns, for sure), and Linux is a great alternative that can do much of what commercial software can do.

I feel the strongest for audio engineers who have invested small fortunes into the Mac platform, and who now find that they have perfectly good PCIe cards and interfaces which they cannot put on a modern Mac. Certainly, for those people, I spare a thought and think Hackintoshing is a solution that will work. But I would still, sadly, advise that if it's at all feasible and justifiable in costs to switch to Windows, I'd say it'd save a lot of running in place with Hackintoshing.
 
Doing IT support at a University, the students who worked for me all liked playing around with old Dell E series and such, were into Hackintoshing. I gave them the best advice I could, which was that it's definitely cool to get it to work, but I said that if they're starting out in doing IT work, they'd be better off trying out different Linux versions, and customizing them. Because if they get to slam their heads in getting to know how to get the correct drivers to work with Linux, and going in and customizing Grub and .config files, mounting certain shares at boot, etc., that will serve them well if they go into IT and ever have to set up a RedHat server. Even once.

I have to say, as an old Mac user/IT-supporter, I find there is something a little OCD-ish about people who insist that their bozoputer must run the MacOS interface in 2019. I mean, look: you can install Windows 10 and get full support, and Adobe CS will be exactly the same, minus minor keyboard interfaces. Ditto for Microsoft Office, and — dare I say? — LibreOffice, too. Everything else is practically done through the browser these days, and there is effectively no difference.

There are people who legit do not want to deal with Microsoft, and maybe are a little tin-foily about big corporations like Microsoft holding their data. I hear them. I'm not as paranoid, (but they are at least half-right about their concerns, for sure), and Linux is a great alternative that can do much of what commercial software can do.

I feel the strongest for audio engineers who have invested small fortunes into the Mac platform, and who now find that they have perfectly good PCIe cards and interfaces which they cannot put on a modern Mac. Certainly, for those people, I spare a thought and think Hackintoshing is a solution that will work. But I would still, sadly, advise that if it's at all feasible and justifiable in costs to switch to Windows, I'd say it'd save a lot of running in place with Hackintoshing.

At this point, an OS is an OS is an OS. Between MacOS, Linux and Windows. you can find an application to do what you want. there is so much parity in the actual OS functionality and stability these days that those of us wanting to hackintosh are doing it more for the fun of it than any real need.

anyone doing anything business critical related should likely not be using a hackintosh just due to overall stability, updates and support. They would be better off just going windows/ linux.

For myself, I only use windows at home for gaming since Windows is still gaming king. linnux for servers and "other" devices. I have for the most part given up on making a hackintosh since I built my latest Ryzen machine.
 
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