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Who are the labels looking out for, themselves or the artists?

If it was the artists then I'd expect Madonna to be hiring lawyers against Apple but I don't see such a thing, I see CEO's of EMI and Universal moaning about the prices of music, have these CEO's looked at their own quarterly results, EMI is certainly making a profit and Universal isn't exactly struggling, its the same with all the labels.

What is the motivation?!?
 
Veritas&Equitas said:
I'll have to admit, as much as I love the $.99 thing that the Music Store does have going for it, the music industry DOES have a point. Since when do retailers tell the suppliers what they will be paying for goods? It seems a little backwards to me, not that I'm complaining, b/c I hate record companies just as much as the next guy...but it does make some sense....


Because it prevents morons with ariticially inflated egos from over inflating prices. Wal-Mart does this with their suppliers and I'm glad. I hate that Wal-Mart hurts small business, but I like that they are able to dictate prices to a certain extent. It helps prevent companies from charging more just for having a brand name. And this isn't hurting small business, this is putting pocket lining jackasses in their place.

And who is anyone to judge how much MUSIC is worth? How do you judge the economic value of a SONG?! You can price things based on popularity, etc. But that's trickier with music. You can only approximate how popular a song will be prior to release by playing it for control groups, etc. Playing a song on the radio prior to release to judge the popularity still hurts sales, because there's a good percentage of people who go to look for the song. If you look on iTunes and it's not there, then you go to LimeWire. They'd have to effectively release a song, see how many people buy it, then raise the price once they had guaged the popularity of it. That's asinine. You want to be a rich artist? Ok, then make a good f'ing song. If they keep a price point, then you have a merit based system. If it's crap, nobody buys it and you don't get sh*theads like Britney Spears being turned into record industry bajillionaires.

Take for instance, an artist with a huge following. Michael Jackson. Do I like MJ, yea. Would I pay 5 dollars a song? Hell no, I'd go straight to LimeWire.


I think the companies that are going to complain the most are the ones that have the crappiest artists, as they have the most to lose. There isn't as much hype control as their used to be. Why should I have to pay $15 when all i want is 1 or 2 songs. I don't want to listen to the rest of your crap assed music that you stuff a CD with just to make a sale. Records companies do it on purpose, putting 1 or 2 good songs on a CD filled with throwaways that they can't promote as singles or at all for that matter, because they're just that...throwaways.

Being able to purchase song by song just makes an artist have to produce something the public wants to hear. If it's a bad song, I don't care if it's 1 cent, if I don't like it, why the hell would i want it. If i rip a CD into iTunes, I don't rip all the tracks just because I can, or just to inflate my library.
 
Maybe they could introduce variable pricing under the trojan horse of variable AAC rates?
Offering the same file at 99c for 128kbs & say $1.29 at 192kbs, and so on would I assume have the potential to generate higher levels of profit for both Apple and the record label and place the cost/benefit decision for paying more per track firmly in the hands of the consumer, rather than the record label.

Just a thought
Vanilla
 
99¢ is the sweet spot. I am almost certain the Record Compnies are not going to go below it. Especially, now that they've established people will pay it. Going above 99¢ Will just turn people off to the idea of online music purchasing, and encourage piracy.
 
For what its worth I already pay $1.23399 but hey I am living in the Netherlands.

Anyway, I stopped buying cause the sound quality just didn't do anymore.
Music should rock and a 128kbs rip doesn't.
 
Prices should be *lower*.

The music industry has no duplication costs, no media costs.. but yet then get the bulk of the profits. Its all profit. They should also give up some of their profits to give to the artists too.

Actual CDs are cheaper to manufacturer, so why on earth do CD albums cost more than Tapes?!!!!

Ripping off music, they are taking the consumer for a ride.
 
Vanilla said:
Maybe they could introduce variable pricing under the trojan horse of variable AAC rates?
Offering the same file at 99c for 128kbs & say $1.29 at 192kbs, and so on would I assume have the potential to generate higher levels of profit for both Apple and the record label and place the cost/benefit decision for paying more per track firmly in the hands of the consumer, rather than the record label.

Just a thought
Vanilla


That sounds like a logical progression to me. And ultimately, a lot of people would voluntarily pay for the extra to get the better quality.
 
Loss Leader

If the record labels did increase the price, I believe Apple would just take the hit and keep selling songs at 0.99. They hardly make money on the iTMS anyway, it is really there to sell iPods.
 
j26 said:
That sounds like a logical progression to me. And ultimately, a lot of people would voluntarily pay for the extra to get the better quality.

Yep, that's a much more reasonable solution for both parties...99c may be regarded as the sweet spot for 128 AAC, while $1.xx could be the price for high-encoding songs; it would be a legitimate solution in the eyes of the customer audience, and also provide slightly higher value for the greedy bastards in the recording industry.

Besides, SteveJ wouldn't be seen as bowing down to the labels...the basic fixed formula would be there with no changes...seems like an expected outcome to me.

p.s.: who could possibly vote "negative" for these news?? Is there anyone working for the labels in this forum? :eek:
 
Am I the only one who wants Apple Lossless files? Heck, 44.1 is crappy enough as a baseline. Do you guys really want to only have formats online that rejigger that to sacrifice even more resolution? Let's have a lossless option. I would pay a little more for it. Wouldn't you?
 
netdog said:
Am I the only one who wants Apple Lossless files? Heck, 44.1 is crappy enough as a baseline. Do you guys really want to only have formats online that rejigger that to sacrifice even more resolution? Let's have a lossless option. I would pay a little more for it. Wouldn't you?

Simple, man...lossless is still too big to be sold as a downloadable file on iTMS.
 
BRLawyer said:
Simple, man...lossless is still too big to be sold as a downloadable file on iTMS.

There are online shops like Beatport [1] who legally sell complete WAV files. Not for 0.99$, though, but at a reasonable price compared to the file size and audio quality. However, they certainly won't produce as much traffic as the iTMS.


[1] www.beatport.com
 
powerboy said:
Stay strong Steve! The greedy record labels will never quit.

EricNau said:
It is very important that Apple keep every song at $.99.

I wish these darn record labels would stop being so greedy. When iTunes first came out, they saw Apple as their savior against pirates. iTunes has sold 1 billion songs since then, so that's 1 billion songs not pirated.

They should bow down to Apple!

Umm, hmm, no. Lol. For one thing, displays of gratitude should not be in that form.

And no, there's nothing wrong with record companies being greedy. Quite frankly, they may just be being stupid. That song you heard about from a friend? $0.99 = Just a click away. $1.29 = Let me think about that...maybe I can "borrow" it from my friend instead? Etc. My obvious point is that iTMS capitalizes on several points, taking one away being highly detrimental:

1) convenience - DUH. This is a reason record labels are grateful to Apple. To prove it, they provide their music for mutual profit. Greed made this happen, for all you silly ones that think greed is pure evil.

2) Apple design and ease of use - Sure, it's not as easy as it could be, but then, the ease of use does mean easy to buy, to spend, to make money off of. The competition is simply unsightly.

3) Pricing. #s 1, 2, and 3 all go together in making it easy to buy from iTMS. #1 puts the products right in the customers' homes. #2 makes it easy (and quick!) to purchase once the customer is ready to buy. #3 makes them ready to buy by giving them a golden deal that is rarely "too much."


Now honestly, I'm entirely against selling products for less than what consumers are perfectly willing to pay. But, given the phenomenal success of iTMS, which is only partly because of capturing the online market, I am willing to bet that raising the prices on some of those songs would inevitably have far less people purchasing them as an effect, over time (that is, counting the increase in). In other words, Jobs doesn't need to do the impossible and convince them to do the world a service and sell "music" (quotes since it aint even CD quality) for less than it's worth - instead, he simply has to show the record companies that their idea could easily produce a loss. Not to mention, be a pain in the butt to implement, possibly causing mistakes, pricing difficulties, slowing it down, lawsuits, or worse. No, rather, you can capture the online market AND get a bit extra by enticing people with the 99 cent price tag. It's simple math, really. So you make more money if you charge 1.29? No, not really. That's only 30 cents of a difference...in other words, 3 people buying at 1.29 is still less than 4 people buying at 0.99. And, $0.99, you don't have to think about, so that fourth person is much more likely to purchase.

In short, Steve's way makes us pay more. If you are going to get yer socialist talk goin and start pointing to greed as if it is evil, ask yourself if you've ever bought anything. If you did, was it really worth the money? Where did that money come from? Why isn't every product free? Aren't all material goods worthless anyway? The answer to that last one is most definitely no. Thus, Steve wants to capitalize on it, and he would rather that those simpleton record labels stay out of his way so that they can both make more money. The record label higher ups are probably somewhat insecure about the online market even now, but holy poop, their plans would cripple iTMS! What in the heck are they trying to accomplish?

And in the first place, I pay extra and buy the CD's, being a spoiled audiophile. (But from my perspective, it would even be insulting to see Britney Sphears or Fug Daddy or whatever easy entertainment being dished out by word of mouth cost more than music that sells itself simply because it is good, and doesn't get a bonus for being a social identification catalyst among teenie boppers. Lol...Fug Daddy.) But of course, that kind of thinking (that pricing would be insulting, etc) is absolutely beside the point. The point is that iTMS is making money well and the record labels don't recognize it's formula for success. That's not greed, that's just simply having poor business thinking. They probably are reluctant to listen to Jobs with any consideration because Jobs is that other computer guy with the short end of the stick. They need to learn to listen better - Jobs is talking bling bling.
 
Vanilla said:
Maybe they could introduce variable pricing under the trojan horse of variable AAC rates?
Offering the same file at 99c for 128kbs & say $1.29 at 192kbs, and so on would I assume have the potential to generate higher levels of profit for both Apple and the record label and place the cost/benefit decision for paying more per track firmly in the hands of the consumer, rather than the record label.

Just a thought
Vanilla

Umm, why would anyone happy with 192kbps not simply get 128kbps? I mean, yeah, I get your point, but there's way too many intervals for it to make sense. Rather, there should be two tiers. 99 cents for the so called "cd quality" that the masses are used to. 1.99 for the audiophile quality sounds ok to me. Now, audiophile quality is the upper limit, and really in the short term the only likely contender is Apple Lossless, for major business. That's not true audiophile quality, but if that's the limit, hey, it floats my boat. And, some people might even pay extra to have just their favorites be of higher quality, maybe. I'm not like that, so I wouldn't know. But maybe.

As for that being a way to side-step the record label stupidity...not really. It costs a lot of time and effort to get lossless on there, even more so to make an ugly, hairy system where you pay a different price for every 64kbps increase, which is just a mess. So, it's not something Jobs could use to side-step the media people. Rather, if he can pummel them into using their brains a bit more, he can have them making more money with him longer.
 
BRLawyer said:
p.s.: who could possibly vote "negative" for these news?? Is there anyone working for the labels in this forum? :eek:

There are, in fact, 32 of us... ;)

But really, this is horrible for the iTMS. At best, it will generate media interest, and Apple will be hailed as an underdog, and play off the public animosity towards record companies. What if it doesn't work?

If one label pulls out, there could be a domino effect, resulting in huge losses as shareholders sell. It would be a free-for-all with competitors like Sony's CONNECT swiping up market share, while every bitter DAP manufacturer would feed like vultures on the iPod. Horrifying enough? :p

The situation in France doesn't help.
 
Vanilla said:
Maybe they could introduce variable pricing under the trojan horse of variable AAC rates?
Offering the same file at 99c for 128kbs & say $1.29 at 192kbs, and so on would I assume have the potential to generate higher levels of profit for both Apple and the record label and place the cost/benefit decision for paying more per track firmly in the hands of the consumer, rather than the record label.

Just a thought
Vanilla

What I often do is buy from iTunes and then go download "illegally" at higher bit rates.
I get a clear conscience, I encourage artists that I feel are worth encouragement, and I get the nice PDF that comes with the album.
If the price were higher for higher bit rates I would still do the same...

Is that illegal since I already own the rights ? (Well perhaps not for me since I live in Canada...)
Would this mean that it would be legal for me to download from P2P networks songs that I already have on cassette or vinyl (speaking hypothetically since I don't have any vinyl anymore) ?
 
conradzoo said:
Anyway, I stopped buying cause the sound quality just didn't do anymore.
Music should rock and a 128kbs rip doesn't.

Amen. I thought the previews were in lower quality than the stuff you buy (never bought anything on ITMS) but then I read it's the SAME "high" quality as the purchased songs. I'm just not willing to pay anything for this kind of quality. Apple Lossless would be fine or maye even the real uncompressed .WAV files. Apple did buy some massive storage rumored to go for the Movie Store. I'd love it if they used it to store uncompressed CDs so when you download a song, you get a 128kbit for your iPod and the uncompressed CD track for 0.99$ so you can listen to it on a Stereo or decent headphones.

I think I'll really stick with piracy and get the uncompressed CDs and buy it on iTunes if I like one enough to support the artists.
 
Well knowing the greedy record companies here In Australia I wouldn't be surprised to see a price hike. :(
 
MrCrowbar said:
Amen. I thought the previews were in lower quality than the stuff you buy (never bought anything on ITMS) but then I read it's the SAME "high" quality as the purchased songs. I'm just not willing to pay anything for this kind of quality. Apple Lossless would be fine or maye even the real uncompressed .WAV files. Apple did buy some massive storage rumored to go for the Movie Store. I'd love it if they used it to store uncompressed CDs so when you download a song, you get a 128kbit for your iPod and the uncompressed CD track for 0.99$ so you can listen to it on a Stereo or decent headphones.

That would be so great. And they need to be more consistent with those Digital Booklets. Apple Lossless and Digital Booklets, where do I put in my bank account #? :D
 
dferrara said:
There are, in fact, 32 of us... ;)

But really, this is horrible for the iTMS. At best, it will generate media interest, and Apple will be hailed as an underdog, and play off the public animosity towards record companies. What if it doesn't work?

If one label pulls out, there could be a domino effect, resulting in huge losses as shareholders sell. It would be a free-for-all with competitors like Sony's CONNECT swiping up market share, while every bitter DAP manufacturer would feed like vultures on the iPod. Horrifying enough? :p

The situation in France doesn't help.

Sorry, but your apocalyptical scenario is a bit too much in this case. The news says: labels are probably accepting Jobs's terms. So if they do, it means we're gonna have an agreement for both parties for at least a couple of years...

Your "if it doesn't work" scenario would give birth to another piece of news, not the current one...

Besides, what ya mean by shareholders? Apple shareholders? Come on...iTMS is just a tiny fraction of Apple's profitability...as long as iPods and Macs are sold (and they are NOT only sold because of iTMS), Apple stocks are fine, thank you...:rolleyes:
 
BRLawyer said:
Sorry, but your apocalyptical scenario is a bit too much in this case. The news says: labels are probably accepting Jobs's terms. So if they do, it means we're gonna have an agreement for both parties for at least a couple of years...

Your "if it doesn't work" scenario would give birth to another piece of news, not the current one...

Besides, what ya mean by shareholders? Apple shareholders? Come on...iTMS is just a tiny fraction of Apple's profitability...as long as iPods and Macs are sold (and they are NOT only sold because of iTMS), Apple stocks are fine, thank you...:rolleyes:

I know, was having a bit of fun. ;) But I do think iTMS needs to stay on top, if Apple's momentum is going to continue. And we know it will!
 
Greed, Greed, Greed....

Could there be a more despised segment of US industry than the record companies? (OK the oil companies a close second right now) Actually I would be happy to see tiered pricing but only if $0.99 was the upper limit and older back catalog was made available at $0.50.
 
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