Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Lol this is not what my desk looks like. I'm rearranging my home so this was a good opportunity. Yes, I calibrate with an i1Display Pro and DisplayCAL. The 5K is the worst for this. I have two of them. Each half of the display is rendered separately, and I've had a hell of a time getting uniform gray across both 5Ks let alone to match the gray balance on my MBP. It's why I specifically wrote "using default color profiles" so that folks can see the variance in LCDs/play the panel lottery game for free.

The photos in my prior post were taken with a D750 and nikkor 16-35 @ 35mm, f8, 1/8s, ISO100 from about 8ft away, and are unedited besides crop.

The photos below were taken with an iPhone X and levels dropped to show how f'd the LG 5K can be, compared to the LG 4K and my MBP
[doublepost=1558570564][/doublepost]

Depending on which revision you received, there's a "secret" way of enabling HDMI 2.0 on the P2415Q. It might make your display look better over HDMI since from what I understand, HDMI 2.0 can support more bandwidth than HDMI 1.4a (which is what the displays are set to by default.) Have a look:
Setting Up the P2415Q / P2715Q Monitors with HDMI 2.0 that Support 4K x 2K 60Hz | Dell US
So this work---sort of.

I did have that mode. The problem is my display is locked at 30 GHZ when the mode is enabled because I think it is limited to HDMI 1.4. Maybe I'm using too weak an HDMI port? Here is what the web site says:

"Dell P2415Q and P2715Q flat panel displays purchased before March 2016 (Versions A00, A01, A02), only support HDMI 1.4 and provide 4k x 2k (3840 x 2160 pixels) resolution @ 30 Hz using the HDMI cable connection. 4k x 2k @60Hz is available via DisplayPort connection on these displays."

I must have A00, A01 or A02. Not sure how I can check.
 
What's your use case? I'm eyeing an external monitor to go with a 15-in MBP. I haven't used an external monitor in many years, so even a 23-in monitor would be a huge upgrade for me. Also don't have a lot of desk space, so this size seems like a reasonable option to me, but I'm open to feedback.

Content creation, programming, long and wide excel spreadsheets data treatment. Got at home 2x27" and at work 3x24". Been bothering my boss to replace those 3 for a 49" ultrawide for a while. Samsung released a high res this year at CES but costs about 2 grand. May take some nagging to get my boss coming around. :D
 
Content creation, programming, long and wide excel spreadsheets data treatment. Got at home 2x27" and at work 3x24". Been bothering my boss to replace those 3 for a 49" ultrawide for a while. Samsung released a high res this year at CES but costs about 2 grand. May take some nagging to get my boss coming around. :D

Cool. I could see how a single 24" would seem like a big step back for you, while I think it would be a pretty big step-up for me. I'm not planning to buy until the second half of the year, so if a cost-effective Thunderbolt 3 27" comes onto the market, maybe I'll convince myself to go for it instead.
 
Cool. I could see how a single 24" would seem like a big step back for you, while I think it would be a pretty big step-up for me. I'm not planning to buy until the second half of the year, so if a cost-effective Thunderbolt 3 27" comes onto the market, maybe I'll convince myself to go for it instead.

What would be your primary use for a larger monitor? Currently, a majority of 27” monitors out right now are UHD 4K, so 3840x2160. Scaled @2x that would be 1920x1080 which to me on a 27” display would look rather huge with no gain in desktop space.

You can of course scale it to 2560x1440 or perhaps a more balanced 2304x1296 but since those aren’t integer scaling, macOS will render UI elements at 5120x2880 (or 4608x2592) then downsample that to fit the native 3840x2160 display. This non-integer scaling can have a noticeable impact on your GPU performance depending on what you’re planning on doing. Text and docs, probably would not be an issue, but photoshop or video editing and it might become a little choppy.

The alternative I’ve personally considered is getting a decent 43” 4K TV that can output chroma 4:4:4 and use it at native 4K resolution. It would have to be placed at typical monitor distances to be able to see text clearly, though, and it would not give you the crisp “retina” experience. I’ve tried this with a 55” Sony Bravia 4K and it’s usable from 3ft away but the physical size of the TV is impractical.
 
What would be your primary use for a larger monitor? Currently, a majority of 27” monitors out right now are UHD 4K, so 3840x2160. Scaled @2x that would be 1920x1080 which to me on a 27” display would look rather huge with no gain in desktop space.

You can of course scale it to 2560x1440 or perhaps a more balanced 2304x1296 but since those aren’t integer scaling, macOS will render UI elements at 5120x2880 (or 4608x2592) then downsample that to fit the native 3840x2160 display. This non-integer scaling can have a noticeable impact on your GPU performance depending on what you’re planning on doing. Text and docs, probably would not be an issue, but photoshop or video editing and it might become a little choppy.

That's interesting. I've also read that a non-integer scaling causes text to be every-so-slightly less crisp and I'm eager to keep my text as crisp as possible. My use case is light by professional standards. Mainly multiple windows of Chrome with various mainly text-heavy sites and web apps open (>100 tabs at a time), and various ancillary software that is minimally taxing (some Electron-based apps, plus apps like Evernote, Quicken, etc.)

I'd like an external monitor to a) be able to better use two Chrome windows side-by-side, or Chrome and another app side-by-side, and perhaps do so while simultaneously increasing the default text and UI size while also keeping everything as crisp as possible. I currently use the formerly default scaled resolution of a 15" MBP, or 2880 x 1800 downscaled to 1440 x 900, and I still zoom Chrome text 125% by default plus I use the accessibility zoom (Ctrl + two-finger scroll up/down) fairly liberally.

I've been playing around with a couple of sites (the first of which was kindly referred to me on this forum) to (1) try to get an idea of effective PPI between various screen sizes and resolutions, and (2) visualize the relative screen real estate difference between two different monitors and resolutions:

(1) https://www.sven.de/dpi/
(2) http://www.displaywars.com/

What I've discovered (assuming I'm using these sites correctly and making appropriate calculations), is my 15.4" MBP currently gives me a PPI of 110, very similar to a 27" monitor set at 2560x1440 (just under 109 PPI), with significantly more screen real estate. Here's a link to a visual representation of the differences. [NB: after playing around some more with the displaywars site I'm not sure how accurate it is so I'm going to focus on PPI.]

Regardless, my plan was originally to use PPI to determine what would be a comfortable size and resolution for me, but the big flaw in my plan is that the comfortable viewing distance of a 24" and especially a 27" monitor must be significantly more than on a notebook, and therefore I need to seek a lower PPI, which will presumably result in a larger UI and text?

At 1920 x 1080 resolution (to keep that crisp 2x Retina doubling on UHD screens), a 23.7" monitor gets about a 93 PPI, and a 27" monitor about an 81 PPI.

I'm just not 100% sure how to compare PPI to determine UI and text size.

Update: I came across an interesting blog post on designing font sizes for different size and resolution displays. It's more technical than I care to fully digest at this time, but it does give me the impression that I might be more comfortable leaning towards a 27" UHD downsampled to 1920x1080 for maximum eye comfort.

The alternative I’ve personally considered is getting a decent 43” 4K TV that can output chroma 4:4:4 and use it at native 4K resolution. It would have to be placed at typical monitor distances to be able to see text clearly, though, and it would not give you the crisp “retina” experience. I’ve tried this with a 55” Sony Bravia 4K and it’s usable from 3ft away but the physical size of the TV is impractical.

Interesting idea, but this definitely would be impractical for me and I would really miss the crisp text of a 2x Retina resolution!
 
I've also read that a non-integer scaling causes text to be every-so-slightly less crisp and I'm eager to keep my text as crisp as possible.

Technically, yes. In reality, I doubt you'd notice it unless you're doing design work with e.g zoomed-in graphics.

multiple windows of Chrome
(>100 tabs at a time)
ancillary software that is minimally taxing (some Electron-based apps

It's completely off-topic so I don't want to dwell on this, but neither Chrome nor Electron (which is just chrome, repackaged with a built-in web app) are really "minimally taxing" - they're usually all quite heavy on memory.


my 15.4" MBP currently gives me a PPI of 110

Keep in mind that's the 'effective' PPI, not the device's 'physical' PPI (which on a MBP15 is 220). The higher the physical PPI, the less likely you are to see rendering artefacts if you need to use a non-evenly scaled resolution.

I'm just not 100% sure how to compare PPI to determine UI and text size.
This is where the 'effective' PPI (the 110 value for the MBP15 @ 'looks like 1440x900') is useful. As mentioned above, it doesn't tell you anything about the smooth- or fuzziness of text on the display, but it tells you how big the same element (be it a button, menu, text, etc) will render, in physical terms.

Personally I don't use a much different viewing distance for 2x24" as I did for my old MBP17, or for my new MBP15 when I've used it's built-in display.

So if you're happy with the size of elements on the MBP15's 'looks like 1440x900', you need to aim for an effective PPI of ~110 on an external display, if you want to push them back a bit (distance wise) you could drop to say ~100PPI (effective) to compensate for the distance.

In that scenario, as you said, a ~24" @ "looks like 1920x1080" will be ~93ish PPI, probably making things too big (and from personal experience I definitely find things larger than ideal on 24" @ 1080p, when sitting at a desk, just about arms length from the displays).

On my mini and with 2x Dell P2415Q's the next "step up" is "looks like 2304x1296" which at 23.7" gives an effective PPI of 111.
 
So, PPI by itself is kind of useless. You need to factor in viewing distance to develop a better idea of how the display will look to you. You can calculate Pixels Per Degree once you have PPI and viewing distance.

For reference, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Rationale, "... the threshold for a Retina display starts at the PPD value of 57 PPD."

Using this website to calculate PPD: http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDens2In...sizeUnit:in,axis:diag,distance:22,distUnit:in

We can use a non-Retina, 15" MBP @ 1440x900, viewed at a distance of 22" as a baseline reference: 43.6 PPD

Keep in mind, if you were to move further back to lets say 30", that will give you 58.6 PPD, which is barely above the threshold for "retina" sharpness,

Using a typical 27" @ 2560x1440 monitor, viewed from 22" away, we get 45.5 PPD.
A typical 24" @ 1920x1080 monitor = 37.8 PPD
And a 27" @ 1920x1080 = 34.1 PPD

Compared to "Retina" displays, using the same viewing distance and diagonal screen sizes.

LG 5K 27" @ 5120 x 2880 @ 22" = 91 PPD, @ 25" = 101.6 PPD
New LG 4K 24" @ 3840 x 2160 @ 22" = 75.5 PPD
Retina 15" MBP @ 2880 x 1800 @ 22" = 87.1 PPD

So if you like the size of your UI at "looks like 1440x900", and assuming a 22" viewing distance (less than arms length), you'll want a display with a size/ppi/and viewing distance combination that will give you about 87 PPD.
A 27" Display at 3840 x 2160 viewed from 25" gives you 76.2 PPD, which, if you scale the display at @2x to get 1920x1080, the text will look even larger than what you have on your laptop.

Holy cow I hope that wasn't too confusing.
 
Holy cow I hope that wasn't too confusing.
It doesn’t help that you used a non-retina MBP as a baseline.

I’m also not sure how that calculation relates to scaled resolutions, because it specifically talks about calculating for best antialiasing- which isn’t a thing with macOS “retina” scaling.

In my experience most people who pair a laptop with a desktop display will end up putting them close together, often using a desktop keyboard/mouse to allow adjusting the laptop to align with the desktop display.

In this scenario the goal is usually to render the elements on both screens at the same visual size, with relative “smoothness” as a close second. Distance to both is likely similar - hence effective (“looks like”) PPI of each screen is a good way to judge the first priority (renders at the same relative size) and physical PPI is a good way to judge the second priority (relative “smoothness”).
 
It doesn’t help that you used a non-retina MBP as a baseline.

I’m also not sure how that calculation relates to scaled resolutions, because it specifically talks about calculating for best antialiasing- which isn’t a thing with macOS “retina” scaling.

In my experience most people who pair a laptop with a desktop display will end up putting them close together, often using a desktop keyboard/mouse to allow adjusting the laptop to align with the desktop display.

In this scenario the goal is usually to render the elements on both screens at the same visual size, with relative “smoothness” as a close second. Distance to both is likely similar - hence effective (“looks like”) PPI of each screen is a good way to judge the first priority (renders at the same relative size) and physical PPI is a good way to judge the second priority (relative “smoothness”).

Ok here's another way of putting it:

15.4" MBP @ 2880 x 1800 @ 25" = 98.4 PPD
27" 5K @ 5120 x 2880 @ 25" = 101.6 PPD

If I have my MBP set to "looks like 1440x900" and my 5K set to "looks like 2560x1440", if both are the same distance away from me, say 25", the UI is rendered at practically the same size, since their visual densities are about the same. I can align the menu bar from each display and they line up almost perfectly.

However if I leave my MBP to "look like 1680x1050" and if I don't change the viewing distance, the UI on the MBP will understandably look smaller.

So how would I make the text on my MBP look more similar to the text on my 5K? By changing the viewing distance; in this case, moving it closer. According to the visual density calculator and got: 3360x2100 (which is 1680x1050@2x) @ 22" distance = 101.6 PPD.

Here's visual proof of what I am having a difficult time articulating: Screen Shot 2019-05-26 at 05.58.06.png
 
Here's visual proof of what I am having a difficult time articulating:
I understand the concept, but like I said, usually when I see someone using a laptop with a desktop display: they want them lined up, not 4" apart like would be required to "satisfy" that advice for a MBP15+ a 4k ~24" display.

In my experience (i.e. what I've literally observed with my own moist eyeballs), even with the non-even scaling options, a 24" 4K display doesn't have noticeable text/graphic deformations at ~arms length (probably 25-28" depending how I sit).
 
I bought the new 24" LG display at a local Apple Store on Thursday, and my subjective impressions are very good.

Build quality is certainly very solid; folks who wrote in the initial part of this thread about 'flimsy' should spend some time with this display. I'm running at 2560X1440, which is kind to my aging eyes. It's no 5K display, but it certainly suffices for the sort of text- and web-based work I do.

However, the wake-from-logout issue is still there (and may, in fact, be due to the LG TB3 cable). And the LG Screen Manager app is nothing short of a joke; almost all functionality has been stripped away and there's no easy way to access some of the features being used to 'sell' this display.

I bought the display at retail so I could return it if necessary. At this point, there's little attracting me back to my 2014 27" 5K iMac except that I don't have to reboot my TBD after every logout. But I'm still unsure of the wisdom of switching my workflow to my 2016 15" MBP and the LG display, and the display may well go back. I certainly enjoy the smaller footprint of this setup, but I'm unsure that 'smaller' is worth the tradeoff in reliability and the reduction in screen real estate.

Update: I went to Best Buy and bought an Apple .8m TB3 cable; replacing the TB3 cable did not solve the problem. I'll be returning the display, which is unfortunate ... I really like the setup otherwise.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
It's completely off-topic so I don't want to dwell on this, but neither Chrome nor Electron (which is just chrome, repackaged with a built-in web app) are really "minimally taxing" - they're usually all quite heavy on memory.

Oh agreed - relatively memory intensive, but not particularly CPU nor GPU taxing.


Keep in mind that's the 'effective' PPI, not the device's 'physical' PPI (which on a MBP15 is 220). The higher the physical PPI, the less likely you are to see rendering artefacts if you need to use a non-evenly scaled resolution.


This is where the 'effective' PPI (the 110 value for the MBP15 @ 'looks like 1440x900') is useful. As mentioned above, it doesn't tell you anything about the smooth- or fuzziness of text on the display, but it tells you how big the same element (be it a button, menu, text, etc) will render, in physical terms.

Personally I don't use a much different viewing distance for 2x24" as I did for my old MBP17, or for my new MBP15 when I've used it's built-in display.

So if you're happy with the size of elements on the MBP15's 'looks like 1440x900', you need to aim for an effective PPI of ~110 on an external display, if you want to push them back a bit (distance wise) you could drop to say ~100PPI (effective) to compensate for the distance.

In that scenario, as you said, a ~24" @ "looks like 1920x1080" will be ~93ish PPI, probably making things too big (and from personal experience I definitely find things larger than ideal on 24" @ 1080p, when sitting at a desk, just about arms length from the displays).

On my mini and with 2x Dell P2415Q's the next "step up" is "looks like 2304x1296" which at 23.7" gives an effective PPI of 111.

I appreciate the input. I'd like to reduce the eyestrain I already experience, so I'm thinking 23.7" @ 1920x1080 might be a nice size for me. I need to figure out a way to see this in person, because theory only goes so far. If it turns out that I'm more comfortable sitting a couple of inches further back from the 24" than my 15", then I'll appreciate that lower effective PPI even more so.

FWIW, I measured myself and I seem to keep the middle of the screen ~22" from my eyes, maybe an inch less when my eyes are feeling tired.

So, PPI by itself is kind of useless. You need to factor in viewing distance to develop a better idea of how the display will look to you. You can calculate Pixels Per Degree once you have PPI and viewing distance.

I read the links you provided and briefly played with the PPD calculator, but am still a bit confused. A metric which takes into account pixel density and distance is intuitively a very useful measurement, but I'm not sure how to interpret it.

So if you like the size of your UI at "looks like 1440x900", and assuming a 22" viewing distance (less than arms length), you'll want a display with a size/ppi/and viewing distance combination that will give you about 87 PPD.
A 27" Display at 3840 x 2160 viewed from 25" gives you 76.2 PPD, which, if you scale the display at @2x to get 1920x1080, the text will look even larger than what you have on your laptop.

Holy cow I hope that wasn't too confusing.

I appreciate the effort, but yeah, it's a little confusing. It seems clear to me that between 24" and 27" UHD monitors I should be able to scale my MBP to a comfortable resolution. I think the best thing for me to do is to try and get some "eyeballs on" time with similar monitors / resolutions to get a feel for what I would like best. Beyond an Apple store, however, I need to think about where I might be able to do that.

I understand the concept, but like I said, usually when I see someone using a laptop with a desktop display: they want them lined up, not 4" apart like would be required to "satisfy" that advice for a MBP15+ a 4k ~24" display.

In my experience (i.e. what I've literally observed with my own moist eyeballs), even with the non-even scaling options, a 24" 4K display doesn't have noticeable text/graphic deformations at ~arms length (probably 25-28" depending how I sit).

I wish I knew how I plan to use them. I had considered whether I might not use the MBP screen at all, might keep it in front of the bigger monitor (especially if I don't get a separate keyboard and trackpad), or might put it side-by-side as you suggest. ‍♂️

However, the wake-from-logout issue is still there (and may, in fact, be due to the LG TB3 cable). And the LG Screen Manager app is nothing short of a joke; almost all functionality has been stripped away and there's no easy way to access some of the features being used to 'sell' this display.

Does this issue occur when putting the MBP to sleep as well on logout? And it doesn't resolve without a reboot? That would be incredibly frustrating and seems like something that LG/Apple would prioritize fixing. Unless they don't know how...
 
Does this issue occur when putting the MBP to sleep as well on logout? And it doesn't resolve without a reboot? That would be incredibly frustrating and seems like something that LG/Apple would prioritize fixing. Unless they don't know how...

Only on logout, and then usually only on logouts for overnight. If I log out and back in in, say, an hour or so, everything works as it should. The only resolution seems to be to dismount my USB-C drives connected to the LG and then unplug and re-plug the TB3 cable into my MBP. Restarting the MBP doesn't always solve the problem, which is why I suspected the cable might be at fault.

Somewhere, I read that LG had already issued a firmware update for the 24" display, but it's nowhere to be found. And, as I've mentioned, the LG screen monitor app is virtually useless ... there's apparently a bug in the code. Whatever firmware version your monitor is on is up-to-date, regardless if LG has updated it several times.
 
might keep it in front of the bigger monitor
Unless you plan to raise up the desktop display a lot this won’t work. I tried something similar (because I was stupid and didn’t order a keyboard and mouse when I ordered the display) and it was dreadful to use that way - and that’s with a display that has a pretty decent amount of vertical adjustment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
I wish I knew how I plan to use them. I had considered whether I might not use the MBP screen at all, might keep it in front of the bigger monitor (especially if I don't get a separate keyboard and trackpad), or might put it side-by-side as you suggest. ‍

Until I build my ideal desk, I finally decided this would be a good temporary set up. Originally I had two LG 5Ks on monitor arms with the MBP closed but my desk just felt crowded and imposing with the two huge monitors and an eGPU and desktop speakers. I have a TB3 dock placed on the base of the LG. If I could do it all over I would have gotten two of the 22" LG 4Ks instead.

Unexpectedly, I kind of really like this set up and it runs well without the eGPU but I still get to have a second display. The other big benefit is I can take advantage of the TouchBar (yes I use it...) and especially TouchID auth. The monitor and laptop are both tilted and I've found this actually improves contrast from my viewing position. I also have the MBP set to the old default resolution of 1440x900. The OS is smart enough to remember what display setup I'm using so when I unplug, the MBP reverts to 1050p, the wallpaper even changes, and if I were to plug into both 5Ks, it remembers that setup "profile" as well. What would be really nice is if there was a built-in way to disable the MBP display, but SwitchResX can achieve this.

Whatever you decide, I have to vouch for the Apple sanctioned displays due to the seamless integration with MacOS. I haven't had any issues that were reported early on. Maybe you can bring a cable to BestBuy and ask to connect a monitor to your laptop. I'm sure Apple would let you do that in store as well. Good luck!


IMG_0892.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but @John.B.Sirius one thing you didn't mention was how close you sit to the 21.5 and 24 inch Ultrafine and Dell?

It's true that the 21.5 will probably fill less of your peripheral FOV but also your eyes will have to accommodate more if you habitually move it closer to your face.

I'm considering whether to get one of those two sizes myself, but am concerned that the 21.5 might feel too short vertically. A 24 inch display is the same height as an A4 sheet of paper.

My usage will be coding, web, and reading pdfs.
 
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but @John.B.Sirius one thing you didn't mention was how close you sit to the 21.5 and 24 inch Ultrafine and Dell?

It's true that the 21.5 will probably fill less of your peripheral FOV but also your eyes will have to accommodate more if you habitually move it closer to your face.

I'm considering whether to get one of those two sizes myself, but am concerned that the 21.5 might feel too short vertically. A 24 inch display is the same height as an A4 sheet of paper.

My usage will be coding, web, and reading pdfs.

I kept them both at the same distance, about arms length away. They were mounted on VESA arms so distance wasn’t a huge concern for me. The 21.5” ran at 2x scaling with an effective resolution of 2048x1152, so at the same distances, it was sharper with smaller text and slightly more desktop space than the Dell which at 2x scaling was 1920x1080. You could scale both (ie... “looks like”) so the with the Dell I had it running at the next resolution higher than default 2x. Even 2560x1440 was doable with the Dell.
 
Last edited:
I kept them both at the same distance, about arms length away. They were mounted on VESA arms so distance wasn’t a huge concern for me. The 21.5” ran at 2x scaling with an effective resolution of 2048x1152, so at the same distances, it was sharper with smaller text and slightly more desktop space than the Dell which at 2x scaling was 1920x1080. You could scale both (ie... “looks like”) so the with the Dell I had it running at the next resolution higher than default 2x. Even 2560x1440 was doable with the Dell.

Thanks for your response, you seem to be one of the few people who has both these screens side-by-side!

It seems a slight advantage of the 24" is that the "more space" options are more comfortable on the eye.

Another thing I don't see discussed too much is coatings. The iMac 21.5" has a glass panel bonded to the screen eliminating the internal reflection and increasing contrast. Whereas all the Ultrafines just have a clear plastic sheet placed over the screen with an air gap. Clearly, this is inferior to glass, but the question is, is it better than the traditional matte AG coating on the 24" Dell. Which of the 21.5" and 24" was friendlier on the eye when reading text?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your response, you seem to be one of the few people who has both these screens side-by-side!

It seems a slight advantage of the 24" is that the "more space" options are more comfortable on the eye.

Another thing I don't see discussed too much is coatings. The iMac 21.5" has a glass panel bonded to the screen eliminating the internal reflection and increasing contrast. Whereas all the Ultrafines just have a clear plastic sheet placed over the screen with an air gap. Clearly, this is inferior to glass, but the question is, is it better than the traditional matte AG coating on the 24" Dell. Which of the 21.5" and 24" was friendlier on the eye when reading text?

The UltraFines do not have bonded glass like the iMac, and I'm not exactly sure what it is, but it does not have the same diffusion effect that the matte display on the Dell has. I'd say the UltraFine has really good reflection handling which is helped by the high brightness (500nit vs 300-350nits of the UltraSharp, the latter higher brightness being available only on the 27" P2715Q). I'm not staring at walls of text all day, so it's glossy all the way for me as photos look much clearer. Reflections are more defined, and it still has a very, very minor matte finish, but I can just crank the brightness to compensate. When the UltraFine is off, it's almost a mirror-like finish whereas with Dell, it's just a wall of haze and general shapes. Since reflections on the UltraFine are more defined, that quality also makes it more difficult to read text. I would go with a matte finish if you're primarily working with text.
 
The UltraFines do not have bonded glass like the iMac, and I'm not exactly sure what it is, but it does not have the same diffusion effect that the matte display on the Dell has. I'd say the UltraFine has really good reflection handling which is helped by the high brightness (500nit vs 300-350nits of the UltraSharp, the latter higher brightness being available only on the 27" P2715Q). I'm not staring at walls of text all day, so it's glossy all the way for me as photos look much clearer. Reflections are more defined, and it still has a very, very minor matte finish, but I can just crank the brightness to compensate. When the UltraFine is off, it's almost a mirror-like finish whereas with Dell, it's just a wall of haze and general shapes. Since reflections on the UltraFine are more defined, that quality also makes it more difficult to read text. I would go with a matte finish if you're primarily working with text.

Yes, I am a niche within a niche. Someone who wants 4K but not a creative or photographer. I just love the print-like quality it gives to rendered text. I think also, the way you move your eyes looking at photos vs lines of text is very different.

Your advice tallies with a few reviewers I've read of 5K monitors, there was even a guy with the glass laminated Dell 8K who said this:
While one can mentally ignore the reflections after a little while, I still consider the glossyness a mild annoyance. I hope as 8K displays become more prevalent, display vendors will offer matte 8K displays as well.

As for me, it seems the only option in the whole world is the P2415Q (probably second hand). There are no matte 5K monitors!

I guess until 8K becomes cheaper and more widespread this is it.

Looking into the future I am excited about:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-plans-to-release-32-inch-and-42-inch-MateView-monitors-for-professionals-and-gamers.536342.0.html

although it is only 170 dpi so on the edge of Retina.

For productivity having several monitors with different aspect ratios, e.g. a 16:9 and a 3:2 side by side would actually be really useful. I currently have a 16:9 next to a 16:10 and even that's more useful than two 16:9s.
 
Yes, I am a niche within a niche. Someone who wants 4K but not a creative or photographer. I just love the print-like quality it gives to rendered text. I think also, the way you move your eyes looking at photos vs lines of text is very different.

Your advice tallies with a few reviewers I've read of 5K monitors, there was even a guy with the glass laminated Dell 8K who said this:


As for me, it seems the only option in the whole world is the P2415Q (probably second hand). There are no matte 5K monitors!

I guess until 8K becomes cheaper and more widespread this is it.

Looking into the future I am excited about:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-plans-to-release-32-inch-and-42-inch-MateView-monitors-for-professionals-and-gamers.536342.0.html

although it is only 170 dpi so on the edge of Retina.

For productivity having several monitors with different aspect ratios, e.g. a 16:9 and a 3:2 side by side would actually be really useful. I currently have a 16:9 next to a 16:10 and even that's more useful than two 16:9s.
If you aren't particularly worried about color accuracy then you might check out: LG 24UD58-B 24" 4K Display.

I have this display and it works pretty well with the M1 MacBook Air. It doesn't have much in the way of amenities. No speakers, no USB ports etc. but it has a reasonably sharp 3840x2160 display at about 185 DPI and 250 nits of brightness. The color accuracy is 72% NTSC. The only real problem I had is that included stand isn't sturdy so I replaced it with an inexpensive VESA stand from monoprice.
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
If you aren't particularly worried about color accuracy then you might check out: LG 24UD58-B 24" 4K Display.

I have this display and it works pretty well with the M1 MacBook Air. It doesn't have much in the way of amenities. No speakers, no USB ports etc. but it has a reasonably sharp 3840x2160 display at about 185 DPI and 250 nits of brightness. The color accuracy is 72% NTSC. The only real problem I had is that included stand isn't sturdy so I replaced it with an inexpensive VESA stand from monoprice.

Do you use it at pixel-doubled resolution (e.g. 1920x1080 doubled), or one of the more space options?
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
As for me, it seems the only option in the whole world is the P2415Q (probably second hand).
If you find somewhere selling them (either end of stock or used) in good condition please do post back about it. I’ve got two p2415q’s and would love to get a third, but it’s hard to find here and out of the blue “will you ship this to south east Asia” queries often get no response from sellers online.
 
My main bug with the ultrafines (and glossy monitors in general) is nicely shown by this photo from an ebay listing. It's of the 5K but I think they all have the same plastic layer in front. Clearly this photo is taken in the evening in a moderately dim room with diffused light sources, and still you can see the ceiling light clearly reflected in the screen!

As someone who reads documents a lot I would find that really annoying. It seems you'd have to turn off any lights in front of the monitor, and just have lamps behind it. Or sit in the dark! Or have it on 500 nits all the time.

And forget any programming code with dark themes too.
s-l1600.jpg
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.