Apple's Opening Court Statement Focuses on Samsung's Radical Shift in Phone Design

[KnightWRX]

The context…
˝How people in an office environment are lured to use non Apple machines is well known. The reason for Samsung to emulate Apple experience.˝

Lured ? Apple does plenty on its own to ensure no one buys their stuff to run in an office. A few missing tidbits :

- LTS
- On-site support
- Account/policy management/deployment tools
- Commodity desktop hardware with few but required features/ports
- Server grade components for the datacenter, with full hotswap capabilities and OSes able to run and manage them.

And offices are managed by IT departments. Where's the "phony" come from again ?
Maybe you don't quite know how corporate IT works and what their needs are
themselves don't even use their own stuff, their datacenters are littered with Oracle hardware/software, Linux servers and VMware ESXi installations.

So again I ask, what "phony IT" people sell Android ?

 

[MacinDoc]

In 1 month ? Samsung has very impressive engineers.

To be fair, although the F700 was announced 1 month after the iPhone, it didn't get to market until December of 2007, so there were 11 months between the time that the iPhone was unveiled and the time that the F700 hit the market. This may have been enough time for Samsung's engineers to pull it together, even if they hadn't previously been working on the concept.

 

[KnightWRX]

Seriously, we're having a discussion about whether Android is free? Please link me to the Google page on pricing for Android software, I'm interested in seeing what they're charging for Android nowadays.

Android is free. Of course that's if :

- You've got a supply chain for handset/electronic components
- Engineers capable of giving you a finished device design
- A manufacturer to put it together
- No need of Google services at all (Google Play store, maps, e-mail, search, etc..)

----------

To be fair, although the F700 was announced 1 month after the iPhone, it didn't get to market until December of 2007, so there were 11 months between the time that the iPhone was unveiled and the time that the F700 hit the market. This may have been enough time for Samsung's engineers to pull it together, even if they hadn't previously been working on the concept.

That's not being fair. Remember what this lawsuit is about : Rectangle with rounded corners. The very slab design pulled off by LG in their Prada, by the F700 of which prototypes were shown to exist in 2006 with design registrations in that year, of which Samsung engineers would have had to put together 1 month after the iPhone launch.

Why can you accept that Apple did not copy the Prada but must have made it simultaneously, but Samsung has to have copied Apple and the F700 was made in a rush after that January announcement ?

No. Again. Both ways it works, this is Chewbacca and all. If Apple did not copy the LG Prada, you must acquit.

 

[boronathan]

Android is free. Of course that's if :

- You've got a supply chain for handset/electronic components
- Engineers capable of giving you a finished device design
- A manufacturer to put it together
- No need of Google services at all (Google Play store, maps, e-mail, search, etc..)

Those things have nothing to do with Android. The software is free. What or how you utilize the software it's your own business. I'm speaking strictly about the software.

 

[MacinDoc]

That's the whole point people bringing up the Prada want to make! How can it be so hard to understand that people were working on iPhone like form factor phones at the same time as Apple. Apple did not invent the form factor, and thus shouldn't own any rights over "rectangles with glass and rounded corners", much less sue over it like they're doing.

Why is it so easy for some to say "But Apple didn't copy the Prada, they made it simultaneously" and then go on and say "everyone has been copying Apple".

It works. Get this. Both. Ways.

I can certainly agree that the Prada was not a copy of the iPhone, that was what I just said.

I also said that certain Android phones have emulated the iPhone in many more ways than just the form factor, at least in Apple's opinion.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

Seriously, we're having a discussion about whether Android is free? Please link me to the Google page on pricing for Android software, I'm interested in seeing what they're charging for Android nowadays.

Charging who?
: The consumer who download?
: AH!

 

[KnightWRX]

Those things have nothing to do with Android. The software is free. What or how you utilize the software it's your own business. I'm speaking strictly about the software.

Sure they don't, but the software on its own doesn't do much except exist on whatever storage medium you decide to put it on.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

Lured ? Apple does plenty on its own to ensure no one buys their stuff to run in an office. A few missing tidbits :

- LTS
- On-site support
- Account/policy management/deployment tools
- Commodity desktop hardware with few but required features/ports
- Server grade components for the datacenter, with full hotswap capabilities and OSes able to run and manage them.

And offices are managed by IT departments. Where's the "phony" come from again ?
Maybe you don't quite know how corporate IT works and what their needs are
themselves don't even use their own stuff, their datacenters are littered with Oracle hardware/software, Linux servers and VMware ESXi installations.

So again I ask, what "phony IT" people sell Android ?

You are the one who know all. AH!

This is phony. WHEN YOU advice people against Apple machines if you never used any.
Receiving commission to sell machines instead of telling people go do some research and to choose Themselves.

 

[KnightWRX]

I can certainly agree that the Prada was not a copy of the iPhone, that was what I just said.

I also said that certain Android phones have emulated the iPhone in many more ways than just the form factor, at least in Apple's opinion.

What about MacinDoc's opinion. So you're really sticking to your guns here : Apple did not copy anyone, they worked on it at the same time, but everyone else copied Apple since Apple said so ?

And people wonder why it's hard to have any kind of intelligent discussion here. How can I even begin to discuss anything with you when you're going to have such a biased and unfair representation of reality ? Apple does no wrong, everyone else is out to get Apple. *sigh*.

Next up, let's discuss Toshiba's amazing time machine. How they managed to announce and ship an "iPhone like rectangle with rounded corners" phone, with a RETINA display, in 2007, 1 month after the first iPhone was announced, much less 3 and a half years prior to the iPhone 4 :

http://www.gsmarena.com/toshiba_g900-1905.php

Now that's impressive. Toshiba is amazing.

 

[sennekuyl]

You're kidding, right? Shiny white plastic. Rounded corners. Chrome-ringed camera lens, top left corner. Logo top center. Yeah, I can see how you might miss the, er, similarities. Or did you not actually look at the pictures before responding?



Google's mind control powers have become impressive indeed - the vociferous defense of a Korean conglomerate knock-off artist is baffling.

As an Apple Fanboi (TM) I'm bewildered you find those to identical looking at the photos. Your description is vague enough to make it sure sounds similar but chrome ringed camera lenses have been common & the cameras are in different positions (other than the vague 'top left'). It also looks like the Samsung has a flash that doesn't seem to be on the 3GS. I'll give you the logo. However the Samsung (Tab isn't it?) has a blocker look with the 3GS' corners having the smaller, smoother radius. Then there is that atrocious grey rim around the side of the Samsung.

Do you have trouble finding your car? Left for honesty. Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound so insulting. It is just that ... I can see the products are similar, but find it a stretch to call them copies.

 

[MacinDoc]

Android is free. Of course that's if :

- You've got a supply chain for handset/electronic components
- Engineers capable of giving you a finished device design
- A manufacturer to put it together
- No need of Google services at all (Google Play store, maps, e-mail, search, etc..)

----------



That's not being fair. Remember what this lawsuit is about : Rectangle with rounded corners. The very slab design pulled off by LG in their Prada, by the F700 of which prototypes were shown to exist in 2006 with design registrations in that year, of which Samsung engineers would have had to put together 1 month after the iPhone launch.

Why can you accept that Apple did not copy the Prada but must have made it simultaneously, but Samsung has to have copied Apple and the F700 was made in a rush after that January announcement ?

No. Again. Both ways it works, this is Chewbacca and all. If Apple did not copy the LG Prada, you must acquit.

If all this is about is rounded corners, then I doubt that the case has much merit. Is it possible that this might be a slight oversimplification?

 

[KnightWRX]

You are the one who know all. AH!

This is phony. WHEN YOU advice people against Apple machines if you never used any.
Receiving commission to sell machines instead of telling people go do some research and to choose Themselves.

In my line of work, corporate IT, if people come up to me for advice on corporate purchases.

I will gladly look up from my MacBook Air a few minutes to talk to them
I will recommend either HP or Oracle hardware for the data center back-end with a big Iron Unix installation
If the budget is low, I will recommend Dell or HP hardware running Linux
for the desktop, I will tell them Windows on pretty much any sub-1000$ hardware is what they want, if only for AD/GPO/LTS needs
won't ever be mentionned in the conversation, except for when the person asks me about my MacBook Air.

Has nothing to do with commission, I don't get commission, I'm salaried. But one thing I know : whatever gets bought is what I have to support after hours and in the night. And Apple isn't what's safest for my sleeping hours.

 

[anthcusack]

So when a touch screen phone takes the world by storm, such as the iphone did, of course everyone will implement touch screens.

Apple, how many ways do you expect a touch screen phone to look like? Apple is overreaching and it coms off to me that they think they should be the only ones able to use a pure touch phone

Nokia Lumia lines are good and not an exact copy of the iPhone mind you! HTC designs too with their 2 tone casings and also Sony's Xperia just to give you few examples!

 

[MacinDoc]

What about MacinDoc's opinion. So you're really sticking to your guns here : Apple did not copy anyone, they worked on it at the same time, but everyone else copied Apple since Apple said so ?

And people wonder why it's hard to have any kind of intelligent discussion here. How can I even begin to discuss anything with you when you're going to have such a biased and unfair representation of reality ? Apple does no wrong, everyone else is out to get Apple. *sigh*.

Next up, let's discuss Toshiba's amazing time machine. How they managed to announce and ship an "iPhone like rectangle with rounded corners" phone, with a RETINA display, in 2007, 1 month after the first iPhone was announced, much less 3 and a half years prior to the iPhone 4 :

http://www.gsmarena.com/toshiba_g900-1905.php

Now that's impressive. Toshiba is amazing.

Wow, talk about misrepresenting what I have said. I have not stated that anyone has copied anyone, only that it is Apple's contention that it has been copied, and that there is a possibility that that opinion may have some basis in fact (otherwise why pursue it?).

I will await the evidence before forming my own opinions regarding this.

Edit: very impressive specs on that Toshiba G900 for 2007!

 

[KnightWRX]

If all this is about is rounded corners, then I doubt that the case has much merit. Is it possible that this might be a slight oversimplification?

I don't know, you tell me :

http://www.google.com/patents/USD504889

Seems pretty much as if that's it. Oh, it's also about boxing up devices I think. Apple owns white boxes with a picture of the device on the top.

Did you even read the complaint ?

----------

Wow, talk about misrepresenting what I have said. I have not stated that anyone has copied anyone, only that it is Apple's contention that it has been copied, and that there is a possibility that that opinion may have some basis in fact (otherwise why pursue it?).

I will await the evidence before forming my own opinions regarding this.

The evidence is all out there. Both Apple and Samsung have their cards on the table now. We're at trial. There's plenty out there to form MacinDoc's opinion. And why do you choose to accept Apple's position but not the other contrary position ?

You are showing bias, no matter how much you want to say you aren't.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

I don't know, you tell me :

http://www.google.com/patents/USD504889

Seems pretty much as if that's it. Oh, it's also about boxing up devices I think. Apple owns white boxes with a picture of the device on the top.

Did you even read the complaint ?

----------



The evidence is all out there. Both Apple and Samsung have their cards on the table now. We're at trial. There's plenty out there to form MacinDoc's opinion. And why do you choose to accept Apple's position but not the other contrary position ?

You are showing bias, no matter how much you want to say you aren't.

: Denial is sexy!

 

[KnightWRX]

: Denial is sexy!

: So that's why you practice it uh ?

(if there ever was a reason to ban smilies use altogether, this poster is it...)

 

[Ochyandkaren]

In my line of work, corporate IT, if people come up to me for advice on corporate purchases.

I will gladly look up from my MacBook Air a few minutes to talk to them
I will recommend either HP or Oracle hardware for the data center back-end with a big Iron Unix installation
If the budget is low, I will recommend Dell or HP hardware running Linux
for the desktop, I will tell them Windows on pretty much any sub-1000$ hardware is what they want, if only for AD/GPO/LTS needs
won't ever be mentionned in the conversation, except for when the person asks me about my MacBook Air.

Has nothing to do with commission, I don't get commission, I'm salaried. But one thing I know : whatever gets bought is what I have to support after hours and in the night. And Apple isn't what's safest for my sleeping hours.

: AH! vanity.
: You should learn about irony.

----------

: So that's why you practice it uh ?

(if there ever was a reason to ban smilies use altogether, this poster is it...)

: Throwing boomerang?
: No Thanks.

 

[boronathan]

Sure they don't, but the software on its own doesn't do much except exist on whatever storage medium you decide to put it on.

absolutely. But that wasn't the argument. The argument was whether the software is free or not. It is.

 

[KnightWRX]

absolutely. But that wasn't the argument. The argument was whether the software is free or not. It is.

Of course it is. Google makes a big point of it.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

absolutely. But that wasn't the argument. The argument was whether the software is free or not. It is.

Free to be thrown out. To not BE useful at all?
That is.

You should learn about FREE.

 

[KnightWRX]

: AH! vanity.
: You should learn about irony.

So you're saying you were inventing things about "commissioned phony IT people" selling Android ?
(pssst.. just an aside, iOS has more corporate penetration than Android. Seems the "phony IT" people are selling Apple iOS devices).
Nothing vain about a little reality.

(Really, this should be against the forum rules).

----------

Free to be throw out. To not BE useful at all?
That is.

You should learn about FREE.

Amazon found it free to be useful.

 

[jmgregory1]

I can see Apple's point that the post-iPhone Samsung phones are identical to the iPhone's design, but these lawsuits are getting ridiculous and making Apple look bad in a lot of people's eyes. I don't get why Apple is focusing on Samsung so much, pretty much every smartphone out there now is an iPhone ripoff.

Maybe they're (Apple) focusing on Samsung because they pay Samsung billions of dollars a year, buying parts and pieces to build the very phones and tablets that Samsung is then copying design-wise for their own use. Isn't that obvious?

 

[Ochyandkaren]

So you're saying you were inventing things about "commissioned phony IT people" selling Android ?
(pssst.. just an aside, iOS has more corporate penetration than Android. Seems the "phony IT" people are selling Apple iOS devices).
Nothing vain about a little reality.

(Really, this should be against the forum rules).

----------



Amazon found it free to be useful.

Vanity again, it is not about me, or you… it is about this nonsensical display of arousal we call discussion. Isn´t it?

: Corporation are people they say. Amazon core biz is to sell content, not hardware. Apple is hardware and OS.
: Do not forget that.

 

[samcraig]

You are the one who know all. AH!

This is phony. WHEN YOU advice people against Apple machines if you never used any.
Receiving commission to sell machines instead of telling people go do some research and to choose Themselves.

Who are these "phony" people who have never used a Mac but advise against them. Can you link or provide any proof points?

What is your definition of an IT person? You know that term covers a large range of people and job definitions. Are you referring to consultants who code? Are you referring to System Administrators? Are you referring to sales people? Are you referring to project managers?

Are you aware that many people in IT don't receive commissions ?

Do you think there are "phony IT people" who push Apple products who have never used PCs or Android?

Is it not the private customer's job to do some research? Why would a customer have to be told to do research when they are making a major purchase?

Are you aware that in many companies - Employees aren't given a choice - so there's no scenario that would require them doing research or being advised towards or against any manufacturer or operating system?

I look forward to your responses.