Apple's Phil Schiller Initially Opposed 27% App Store Fee on External Purchases

[I7guy]

It’s not always that simple, especially when there is a company controlling a significant portion of a market (as Apple does with the mobile OS market in the United States) and restricts/blocks competition in that market (as Apple does with iOS app store/distribution in the United States). A mobile app developer saying they won’t do business with Apple has to throw away around 58% (according to Statcounter) of the market in the United States.

It definitely is that simple. It's up to an individual to decide if engaging with Apple either as a customer or dev will be right for the individual. When one engages in a relationship with Apple they have to take the positives and negatives into account. One of the things about engaging with Apple in the US as a development partner with respect to the iphone is the knowledge the ios app store belongs to Apple. And with that knowledge the developer is bound by Apples rules. And also weighing other distribution channels, similar to Amazon or the Wall Street Journal.

Epic found out about this the hard way when they goaded apple into kicking them out of the ios app store and then sued them...ultimately losing every legal point except for one.

 

[webkit]

It definitely is that simple. It's up to an individual to decide if engaging with Apple either as a customer or dev will be right for the individual. When one engages in a relationship with Apple they have to take the positives and negatives into account. One of the things about engaging with Apple in the US as a development partner with respect to the iphone is the knowledge the ios app store belongs to Apple. And with that knowledge the developer is bound by Apples rules. And also weighing other distribution channels, similar to Amazon or the Wall Street Journal.

Epic found out about this the hard way when they goaded apple into kicking them out of the ios app store and then sued them...ultimately losing every legal point except for one.

No, it is definitely not always that simple. Apple is evidence of that by them continuing to do business in the EU despite not liking the terms of the DMA. If it was "that simple" to do, Apple would've walked away. Imagine how much more difficult it is for a U.S. mobile app developer to throw away around 58% (according to Statcounter) of a market.

Again, when there is a company controlling a significant portion of a market (as Apple does with the mobile OS market in the United States) and restricts/blocks competition in that market (as Apple does with iOS app store/distribution in the United States), it can be very difficult for developers to not do business with that company despite how much they may dislike the terms. Throwing away that much of a market is just not that simple.

 

[I7guy]

No, it is definitely not always that simple. Apple is evidence of that by them continuing to do business in the EU despite not liking the terms of the DMA. If it was "that simple" to do, Apple would've walked away. Imagine how much more difficult it is for a U.S. mobile app developer to throw away around 58% (according to Statcounter) of a market.

Again, when there is a company controlling a significant portion of a market (as Apple does with the mobile OS market in the United States) and restricts/blocks competition in that market (as Apple does with iOS app store/distribution in the United States), it can be very difficult for developers to not do business with that company despite how much they may dislike the terms. Throwing away that much of a market is just not that simple.

It definitely is that simple in the US. A business plan is needed to see what the optimal strategy is: if you are offering a digital service (even if the end result is a physical product).

As one potential avenue for revenue one decides if they want to enter into an agreement with Apple or not as a developer. If so, apply online and agree to the terms, pay Apple and done.

It’s no more complex than that. Sign up, develop, deploy and reap the benefits.

As far as disliking the terms, par for the course. When you enter into a business relationship you decide if the terms of the arrangement will work for you. If not reassess your business plan.

But don’t make this apples problem.

 

[webkit]

It definitely is that simple in the US. A business plan is needed to see what the optimal strategy is: if you are offering a digital service (even if the end result is a physical product).

As one potential avenue for revenue one decides if they want to enter into an agreement with Apple or not as a developer. If so, apply online and agree to the terms, pay Apple and done.

It’s no more complex than that. Sign up, develop, deploy and reap the benefits.

As far as disliking the terms, par for the course. When you enter into a business relationship you decide if the terms of the arrangement will work for you. If not reassess your business plan.

Once again, walking away from 58% of a market, using my U.S. mobile app developer example, because you don’t like the terms is not simple. That's quite a sacrifice. Apple couldn't even walk away from the EU because they didn't like the terms, and the EU is a much smaller percentage of their business than 58%.

But don’t make this apples problem.

It's more the developers and users problem that Apple blocks/restricts competition and choice in major portions, varies by country/region, of the app store/distribution markets.

 

[I7guy]

Once again, walking away from 58% of a market, using my U.S. mobile app developer example, because you don’t like the terms is not simple. That's quite a sacrifice.

That’s a business plan decision. Not your decision or my decision.

Apple couldn't even walk away from the EU because they didn't like the terms, and the EU is a much smaller percentage of their business than 58%.

The above is moving the goalposts.

It's more the developers and users problem that Apple blocks/restricts competition and choice in major portions, varies by country/region, of the app store/distribution markets.

Apple blocks nothing nor/restricts nothing. As a developer entering into a potential relationship with Apple they don’t get to dictate the terms.

 

[webkit]

That’s a business plan decision. Not your decision or my decision.

And as I said, it's NOT a simple decision to walk away from 58% of a market.

The above is moving the goalposts.

No, that's the game you like to play. I was showing how it's not a simple decision to not do business somewhere because you don’t like the terms. The EU/Apple situation is a good example of this and is NOT moving the goalposts.

Apple blocks nothing nor/restricts nothing. As a developer entering into a potential relationship with Apple they don’t get to dictate the terms.

More of your nonsense. Apple is blocking/restricting alternative iOS app stores, outside of the EU, and is thereby blocking app developers from using alternative app stores in a major segment (e.g., 58% in the U.S.) of the mobile market.

 

[I7guy]

And as I said, it's NOT a simple decision to walk away from 58% of a market.

It’s a business decision based on multiple factors of which you or I are not qualified to judge.

No, that's the game you like to play. I was showing how it's not a simple decision to not do business somewhere because you don’t like the terms. The EU/Apple situation is a good example of this and is NOT moving the goalposts.

No. This nonsense is all opinion based and we disagree on all aspects.

More of your nonsense. Apple is blocking/restricting alternative iOS app stores, outside of the EU, and is thereby blocking app developers from using alternative app stores in a major segment (e.g., 58% in the U.S.) of the mobile market.

All of the above are in your opinion. Epic vs Apple. Epic lost on every count except for one. Apple has a legal business model and in the US the iOS App Store is their property. If a dev wants to enter into an agreement the dev will do so. If the dev doesn’t they won’t.

 

[webkit]

It’s a business decision based on multiple factors of which you or I are not qualified to judge.

It's a business decision made less simple when there is a company that dominates a market (as Apple does with iOS in the mobile market) and blocks/restricts alternatives (as Apple does with iOS app store/distribution) in that market. Again, because of these things, it is NOT a simple decision.

No. This nonsense is all opinion based and we disagree on all aspects.

It's NOT an opinion that Apple does business in the EU despite not liking the terms. That is a fact.

All of the above are in your opinion. Epic vs Apple. Epic lost on every count except for one. Apple has a legal business model and in the US the iOS App Store is their property. If a dev wants to enter into an agreement the dev will do so. If the dev doesn’t they won’t.

It's NOT an opinion that Apple is blocking/restricting alternative iOS app stores, outside of the EU, and is thereby blocking app developers from using alternative app stores in a major segment (e.g., 58% in the U.S.) of the mobile market. It is fact.

 

[I7guy]

It's a business decision made less simple when there is a company that dominates a market (as Apple does with iOS in the mobile market) and blocks/restricts alternatives (as Apple does with iOS app store/distribution) in that market. Again, because of these things, it is NOT a simple decision.

You can’t estimate the complexity of a business plan for a developer. Given there is approximately a 50% split in operating system distribution in the US while android dwarfs IOS worldwide there are many factors to consider as to who to enter into an agreement to. But the decision ultimately may be simple.

It's NOT an opinion that Apple does business in the EU despite not liking the terms. That is a fact.




It's NOT an opinion that Apple is blocking/restricting alternative iOS app stores,

The above certainly is an opinion.

outside of the EU, and is thereby blocking app developers from using alternative app stores in a major segment (e.g., 58% in the U.S.) of the mobile market. It is fact.

No dev is being blocked and with an approximate split of 50% in the US with respect to operating systems, as said above a business plan is needed to determine a course of action.

 

[webkit]

You can’t estimate the complexity of a business plan for a developer. Given there is approximately a 50% split in operating system distribution in the US while android dwarfs IOS worldwide there are many factors to consider as to who to enter into an agreement to. But the decision ultimately may be simple.

Currently more like 58% iOS to 42% Android in the U.S. according to Statcounter. Once again, it is not a simple decision to walk away from that much potential business.

The above certainly is an opinion.

Nonsense.

Fact #1: Apple doesn't like terms of the DMA for doing business in the EU.
Fact #2: Apple still does business in the EU.
Conclusion from these FACTS, Apple does business in the EU despite not liking the terms.

This is not opinion.


Fact: Apple blocks/restricts alternative iOS app stores outside of the EU.

This is not opinion.

No dev is being blocked and with an approximate split of 50% in the US with respect to operating systems, as said above a business plan is needed to determine a course of action.

Nonsense.

Developers are absolutely blocked from using alternative app stores in the U.S. to market their iOS apps.


I really have to wonder if you actually believe the nonsense you are writing or are instead just throwing stuff out there to try to get a reaction. Therefore, I see no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[Hails09]

Currently more like 58% iOS to 42% Android in the U.S. according to Statcounter. Once again, it is not a simple decision to walk away from that much potential business.




Nonsense.

Fact #1: Apple doesn't like terms of the DMA for doing business in the EU.
Fact #2: Apple still does business in the EU.
Conclusion from these FACTS, Apple does business in the EU despite not liking the terms.

This is not opinion.


Fact: Apple blocks/restricts alternative iOS app stores outside of the EU.

This is not opinion.




Nonsense.

Developers are absolutely blocked from using alternative app stores in the U.S. to market their iOS apps.


I really have to wonder if you actually believe the nonsense you are writing or are instead just throwing stuff out there to try to get a reaction. Therefore, I see no point in continuing this discussion.

Exactly even if developers use the alternative App Store my understanding is Apple still want 27% charge.

 

[I7guy]

Currently more like 58% iOS to 42% Android in the U.S. according to Statcounter. Once again, it is not a simple decision to walk away from that much potential business.

With approximately a 50% split in the US with android pulling away in the world sphere it’s relatively easy for a decent plan to decide whether to engage with Apple as a developer.

Nonsense.

Fact #1: Apple doesn't like terms of the DMA for doing business in the EU.
Fact #2: Apple still does business in the EU.
Conclusion from these FACTS, Apple does business in the EU despite not liking the terms.

This is not opinion.


Fact: Apple blocks/restricts alternative iOS app stores outside of the EU.

This is not opinion.




Nonsense.

Developers are absolutely blocked from using alternative app stores in the U.S. to market their iOS apps.

The above is all an opinion. What isn’t an opinion is that Apple owns the iOS store. That has never been up for debate.

I really have to wonder if you actually believe the nonsense you are writing or are instead just throwing stuff out there to try to get a reaction. Therefore, I see no point in continuing this discussion.

Do you have some actual case law where Apple is shown to be blocking competition? Because saying it repetitively doesn’t really mean its the case.

 

[Stuwil]

With approximately a 50% split in the US with android pulling away in the world sphere it’s relatively easy for a decent plan to decide whether to engage with Apple as a developer.

The above is all an opinion. What isn’t an opinion is that Apple owns the iOS store. That has never been up for debate.

Do you have some actual case law where Apple is shown to be blocking competition? Because saying it repetitively doesn’t really mean its the case.

Why would you not engage with Apple as a developer when it’s your interests to get your app in as many hands as possible
However ultimately this is a capitalist company who are out to make as money as possible & that’s why the 30% is not right because Apple are just making money off of developers

 

[I7guy]

Why would you not engage with Apple as a developer when it’s your interests to get your app in as many hands as possible

Could be that I think the app is more suited to android. Or that I don’t want to pay the 30%. Or I think my product or service will be better served with a website. Anyway that would be my decision and not because “there is no competition in the iOS App Store”.

However ultimately this is a capitalist company who are out to make as money as possible & that’s why the 30% is not right because Apple are just making money off of developers

And developers are making money off Apple. That’s the way commissions work. Everybody wins. And that’s why I said above the business plan has to be well thought out.

And to clarify, I understand you don’t like the 30% commission, but I’m not sure why. Does it affect you personally?

 

[Stuwil]

Could be that I think the app is more suited to android. Or that I don’t want to pay the 30%. Or I think my product or service will be better served with a website. Anyway that would be my decision and not because “there is no competition in the iOS App Store”.

And developers are making money off Apple. That’s the way commissions work. Everybody wins. And that’s why I said above the business plan has to be well thought out.

And to clarify, I understand you don’t like the 30% commission, but I’m not sure why. Does it affect you personally?

But there is no competition on iOS because generally all you have is the App Store?

Yes but if it wasn’t for apps then the iPhone wouldn’t be as popular so it’s bit of a 2 way street

 

[I7guy]

But there is no competition on iOS because generally all you have is the App Store?

Yes, it’s apples property.

Yes but if it wasn’t for apps then the iPhone wouldn’t be as popular so it’s bit of a 2 way street

Chicken and egg. However the app store was there first and the commissions in the US have not drastically changed since 2008.

 

[Stuwil]

Yes, it’s apples property.

Chicken and egg. However the app store was there first and the commissions in the US have not drastically changed since 2008.

Yes but my understanding is they where supposed to get cheaper when Apple made its first million from the Apple Store
& have just kept it to be greedy

 

[I7guy]

Yes but my understanding is they where supposed to get cheaper when Apple made its first million from the Apple Store
& have just kept it to be greedy

Apple should be greedy. They are providing a service where there is a win-win.

Do you have a verifiable citation about your “understanding”?

 

[Stuwil]

Apple should be greedy. They are providing a service where there is a win-win.

Do you have a verifiable citation about your “understanding”?

ultimately your right Apple are providing a service & deserves to be greedy because of how many customers they can reach
& also every business decision Apple make is ultimately correct in regards to the App Store 30% IAP charge.
And developers who disagree with it & have removed said opinion are just using Apple’s platform for free after building up their customer base.
Yes your everything you have said is correct so I feel no need to continue with this