That doesn't make the EU right. It's lousy legislation through and through. And of course, the US is different from Europe, starting in 1776.
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Apple's Phil Schiller Initially Opposed 27% App Store Fee on External Purchases
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Well he found out in court - where that matters.
No it's not a valid point, imo.
This is your opinion. I keeping saying if one has issues with the way Apple legally runs its' business, thankfully there is competition. It seems some are annoyed because apple is so successful and people keep flocking to the to use their products and services, even though the are obviously a shady, corrupt corporation. /s
I never solely mentioned the EU once
I said in other countries they are getting challenged about their App Store policies and are either losing them or having to pay fines.
Other countries really refer to a particular locale unless you meant it as some generic type statement like this could happen anywhere. However, it did happen somewhere specific.
No I said the language your using like how dare he challenge my company Apple
He’s got an opinion how can it be wrong
You do know you can buy a company’s product & still think they have shady business practices
It has happened on other countries where they have been challenged on certain App Store policies & had to change them or are getting fined like in the Netherlands
How can an opinion be wrong? Good question and you're right on that. However, the opinion doesn't have to have any substance is probably more what I wanted to say. It's an internet debating tactic of a low quality post and is seen here on MR.
I don't know about you, but if I believe a company has shady business practices I tend to try and avoid them.
The Netherlands is so specific regarding dating apps though - go figure.
Yet in the smartphone business you have 2 choices so there you go regarding shady business practices.
I could easily use another country if you want & there is more coming.
And yet when anyone points something valid you use whataboutaray
It’s just bizarre that certain people can defend everything that certain companies do as if it’s something personal against them
With the smartphone business there are hundreds of manufacturers, all of them are shady? With respect to Apple I don't believe they are a shady company, you do. (that doesn't mean they are squeaky clean, no company is) Opinions and all that.
But sure let's lay out the specifics on the table and discuss and see how relevant the examples are.
What is a whataboutaray? Is that akin to a strawman, similar to how many post?
What I find bizzare are the negative, low quality opinions as if some people make it their life's work to criticize Apple for things that are blatantly untrue. Malarkey similar to "Since Steve Jobs Apple has no innovation".
Google & apple are your choices mate
I’m not talking about OEM’s mate
No what I’m talking about is people have legit complaints about the 30% IAP
And other things
Yet you have never conceded a single point & when someone gives you an example you then say for example that’s not in the US
You need to explain the tieback between shady and your untrue assertion of google and apple. Are you saying the smartphone industry is shady? I would disagree with that also. I don't think you can prove it as a manner of fact, even if you can cite some criminal or civil case a company has been charged with.
No. People don't have "legitimate" complaints about 30% IAP, especially since that is what they agreed to. A shady company would hide the 30% and not make it known what the fee and commission structure. Does Apple hide this information? A dev makes the decision to opt-in or not. If you opt-in and you are going to make money from your product and pay a service fee to the hoster, is that a legitimate complaint? I say no.
Is there some point you want to make with your last sentence? As I haven't seen many poster concede anything in any of these controversial discussions.
Of course you would disagree with that
So your ok with certain companies making smartphones in sweatshops conditions
All big companies throughout history either have some shady practices or monopolistic behavior’s because that’s how they make it hard for people to compete with them
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Shifting goalposts and red herrings. We are discussing the app service fees.
You did exactly what I predicted. Made some generalized statement that may or may not be true to form some specific opinion and apply it across the board. Seems like misdirection to me.
Your only saying that because there have been reports about a certain north American company uses a company to make their phones using these type of working conditions.
Yes this is about the 30% IAP charge & how it’s not correct
Yet you have ventured in different directions
But you’re the one who has brought up Honda’s & Wall Street Journal & Costco
& pop up shops
I’m sure you said that google & Apple don’t do some kind of shady business practices?
It’s only red herrings because you refuse to
Acknowledge it.
Yes it is about 30% IAP but any point that was put too you then you would either say what about this or that
Then things like cars & stuff like that
Very irrelevant debating tactics:
- subcontractors
- discounting of analogies
- the implication of shady business practices
(I think citations are needed, but we know they won't be coming. Only generalized comments that are suitable for non-political forums)
What is on-topic for Phil Schiller "initially" opposing a 27% fee in the EPIC vs Apple trial. A trial that Epic lost epically except for one point. Judge Gonzales refuted the app store claims in a major courtroom victory for Apple. The cognitive dissonance around this topic is wild.
If the cognitive dissonance around this topic is wild why have you kept going?
The 30% is not right because apple doesn’t warrant getting that much for what they do
As it’s been established they don’t reinvest back into the App Store & don’t help certain genres in the App Store
My stance all along is the ios app store is a legal entity and allowed to charge the services and fees they are charging. I will ask you why have you kept going? To refute the claim and declare they are illegal?
That's where your logic goes south. Apple doesn't have to justify their fees. This is their published rate and those who want to use the app store for what they do will pay the published rate. In other words Apple is charging for IAP, either agree ahead of time or find another platform...of which there are more than one.
That's irrelevant. They don't need to clear anything that's legal with MR posters. Nor does Apple have to justify anything. Use of Apples products and services are opt-in. Don't use them if you don't want.
there is a reason you have kept going on & on or else you would have stopped ages ago if the topic was going off course
if you feel that apple are correct in the 30% IAP charges then obviously no matter what anyone says then you will disagree regardless
The same holds true for the above. If you believe that apple is incorrect (as opposed to illegal) in the 30% iap charges, then obviously no matter what anyone says to the contrary then you will disagree regardless.
But legality is on my side and opinion is on your side. You may think it's disgusting that apple charges that, but also devs agree to the fee. One way to send a message to apple is to pull all of these apps from the app store. Sure devs will suffer, but apple will get the message.
Obliviously the 30% charge is controversial hence why bigger developers challenge it & either remove it or about too remove the option. And we know this
The smaller developers accept it because ultimately they don’t have a choice & if they want to sell their app on the platform that’s why
Now there is no need to respond
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It’s not controversial to me, only to some devs and MR posters who take their sides. Big developers are entitled and they want all the money to themselves bypassing Apple, imo. Epic thought they were in the right, but the entire thing was poorly executed and they found out how so.
No dev has to accept the fees and commissions, just don’t do business with Apple.
There is no need to respond.
If your a small developer starting out you don’t have a choice but to accept to IAP charges
What part of that don’t you get that’s why the bigger developers can challenge it & get special treatment like Amazon do
Or remove IAP like other big developers
& more to follow.
It was funny just stop now
I feel it’s only “controversial” insofar that the developers have a financial vested interest in seeing this percentage be reduced all the way to zero percent so they can keep more of that money for themselves. In this context, I don’t think they are going to be open to any sort of justification which would led to them having to fork out one cent more than they absolutely need to, since it is not in their financial interests.
Finally, the truth of the matter is that the iOS App Store is Apple’s intellectual property. They could charge developers 50% if they wanted. I maintain that I do not find 30% unreasonable so long as other companies such as Steam, Sony and Nintendo continue to do the same. If you want to argue that these companies re-invest their profits into supporting the game market (whatever that means), I can also argue that Apple has helped do its part by aggregating the best customers in the world, and creating a trusted App Store that has conditioned users to trust the download process and buy more apps than they normally would have.
Would you rather have 70% of a larger slice of the pie or 100% of a smaller one? That, I feel, has been Apple’s value add. They grew the overall pie for developers by making it safe and convenient to purchase apps. But it seems that over time, developers either forgot about this, or have simply come to take it for granted, or maybe they just want their cake and eat it too.
Like I said, we can argue until the cows come home about what a reasonable percentage cut is. Epic isn’t a good yardstick either. At 12%, their store still isn’t profitable, and continues to lack basic functionality. it’s just not very well run overall, and the only takeaway here is that it’s easier to charge less when you are also doing less for that money.
It’s a huge leap to go from “Apple does not deserve 30%” to “Apple does not deserve a single cent for their efforts in maintaining the App Store”.
Nobody says that Apple shouldn’t make anything from the App Store
However based on the business model they have by selling new iPhones every year & making a profit plus the huge amount of traffic they have using the App Store they could easily still make a profit on 12 to 15% IAP charges because of the huge volume of traffic they have.