Apple's Phil Schiller: 'We Don't Design for Price, We Design for the Experience'

[friedmud]

Yeah that's a lie though, first of all the cable isolation on Apple cables is worst quality in the industry, and to stop their consumers from looking outside apple branded gear they introduce MFI and similar programs where they require an official apple chip in more and more accessories for it to be allowed in the apple world.
The only place where they are truly innovating is in how to box in the people that bought into their ecosystems with ICloud, MFI, M1?etc. If you do dare to leave for Android you better be smart about it or Apple will eat the messages from every IOS device out there.
Personally I think it's creepy and it makes me feel boxed in.

Note: I chose my words carefully. I never claimed that Apple had the _best_ quality cables/dongles.

I said: "I know the quality level". I've had plenty of Apple cables/dongles fail over the years... but they deteriorate at expected rates that I understand. Going with third-party accessories you may be able to do better... but is a complete lottery...

 

[dk001]

Note: I chose my words carefully. I never claimed that Apple had the _best_ quality cables/dongles.

I said: "I know the quality level". I've had plenty of Apple cables/dongles fail over the years... but they deteriorate at expected rates that I understand. Going with third-party accessories you may be able to do better... but is a complete lottery...

Very true. Still, if you shop carefully you can usually identify those that are worth the effort. For me, having a cable I can depend on is paramount.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

Note: I chose my words carefully. I never claimed that Apple had the _best_ quality cables/dongles.

I said: "I know the quality level". I've had plenty of Apple cables/dongles fail over the years... but they deteriorate at expected rates that I understand. Going with third-party accessories you may be able to do better... but is a complete lottery...

What you wrote had the implicit conclusion that apple cables are better and more dependable. Which is a lie.
Not only are Apple cables of horrible quality, but they deliberately sabotage 3rd party manufacturers. When your cheap cable randomly stops functioning it's because Apple invalidated it, and to top that off they make their own cables of worse quality than a 50 cent Hong Kong knockoff.
Normally it would be hard to sell a cable worth 50 cents for $19.00, but not for Apple because they actually invented something, but instead of making something useful for us they invented a gadget to prevent your 3rd party cable from working.

This cable is designed to fail, and to make competitors fail. So you buy a new one.
Fat wall street scam artists calls it ... Courage
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[....]first of all the cable isolation on Apple cables is worst quality in the industry [.....]

Do you actually have any evidence of this?

So you the "the earth is flat guy"
http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD818AM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable-1-m
read the reviews.

 

[Feenician]

So you the "the earth is flat guy"

No I'm the "questioning claims pulled straight from someone's ass" guy.

Three things: -
- you said the cables had "the worst isolation" in the industry. Was does isolation have to do with digital cables?

- you point to reviews on Apple.com but
- these don't prove the quality relative to anything else
- people who leave reviews are not the customers who just get and use a cable and forget about. They're naturally going to be mostly people who've had an issue

Essentially you fail on all fronts proving anything and in the most obvious and basic ways.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

No I'm the "questioning claims pulled straight from someone's ass" guy.

Three things: -
- you said the cables had "the worst isolation" in the industry. Was does isolation have to do with digital cables?

- you point to reviews on Apple.com but
- these don't prove the quality relative to anything else
- people who leave reviews are not the customers who just get and use a cable and forget about. They're naturally going to be mostly people who've had an issue

Essentially you fail on all fronts proving anything and in the most obvious and basic ways.

As i said, the earth is flat guy.
I came to macroumers because i was starting to get disgruntled enough with Apple to consider changing both job and hardware and I used to love Apple products, so i wanted to hear from people who still love the platform. But finding people like you that simply pretend even the most obvious problems do not exist is unsettling.

 

[Feenician]

As i said, the earth is flat guy.
I came to macroumers because i was starting to get disgruntled enough with Apple to consider changing both job and hardware and I used to love Apple products, so i wanted to hear from people who still love the platform. But finding people like you that simply pretend even the most obvious problems do not exist is unsettling.

I'm not pretending anything. In around 15 years of owning Apple products and using their cables I've had precisely two fail. One MacBook power cord because I was too lazy/stupid to lay it round the back of the desk and kept rolling over it with my chair and one 30-pin iPod cable because it spent years baking in the sunlight in the car (not a happy situation for many rubber type materials) and was constantly tugged/bent/generally abused. Actually it's not even true to say either failed, they still worked, they just looked like crap.

I didn't even say you were wrong, I just asked you to back your claim, which you couldn't actually do.

You're the sort of person who thinks their experience is everyone's experience, a developmental stage you're supposed to grow out of around age 3 or 4.

"Changing job" because of frayed cables. Lmao

 

[dk001]

I'm not pretending anything. In around 15 years of owning Apple products and using their cables I've had precisely two fail. One MacBook power cord because I was too lazy/stupid to lay it round the back of the desk and kept rolling over it with my chair and one 30-pin iPod cable because it spent years baking in the sunlight in the car (not a happy situation for many rubber type materials) and was constantly tugged/bent/generally abused. Actually it's not even true to say either failed, they still worked, they just looked like crap.

I didn't even say you were wrong, I just asked you to back your claim, which you couldn't actually do.

You're the sort of person who thinks their experience is everyone's experience, a developmental stage you're supposed to grow out of around age 3 or 4.

"Changing job" because of frayed cables. Lmao

Only two? You must truly be a "gentle giant" amongst Apple iDevice cable users.

 

[Feenician]

Only two? You must truly be a "gentle giant" amongst Apple iDevice cable users.

I don't think "repeatedly rolling over cable on a hardwood floor" qualifies as gentle giant, no.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Hmmmm. Yes definitely design for the price and screw usability experience.

Form above functionality and hiked prices.

I'm looking for a laptop that has value for money and great performance. These machines lack value for money.

I'm not interested sitting in Starbucks displaying eye candy!

Bravo Stella ... right on the money!
I neither want to be part of the status quo!

I thought that was the point of Apple ... how done things changed over time.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

"Changing job" because of frayed cables. Lmao

The problem is not bottom quality cables in and of themselves, the problem is that i bought into the implied promise that as you get into the Apple ecosystem Apple will take care to provide quality service and compatibility so you can just get your job done. That Apple has control of the complete tech stack so they can weed out hostile elements AND provide unique innovations and stability that is just not possible in more fragmented environments like windows, android etc.
The problem is that Apple is not really innovating anything, apart from more sophisticated consumer handcuffs. They choose to put millions of loyal users through the cable dance on a daily basis because earning that 2$ is more important to them than providing great products.
All of the above is nickel and dime stuff for the individual consumer.
But i plug in phones/tablets sometimes 50 times a day, pick them up plugged in maybe 150 times and it becomes clear that a 1 dollar cable for android outlasts Apple cables by a factor of 20, because Apple doesn't care, we are handcuffed as consumers. They dump ports and legacy formats with no warning when no suitable replacement exists, and they just do not care. And ICloud fails, you submit radar and Apple doesn't care, because you are handcuffed as a developer, And xyz framework doesn't work as documented, and Apple doesn't care, not anymore.

What they seem to care about is removing ports and functions, inventing new consumer handcuffs and making everything flatter, everything else seems to be flailing and meanwhile we have them babbling about Pokemon Go and spending years on an emoji keyboard for the macbook pro which is just a perfect fit (for my teen cousin, she keeps up with the Kardashians)

And to really rub salt in the wound we have the holier than thou Tim Crook and his awesome political talks, and his crooked products, tax deals and fanbase gouging.

 

[Feenician]

The problem is not bottom quality cables in and of themselves, the problem is that i bought into the implied promise that as you get into the Apple ecosystem Apple will take care to provide quality service and compatibility so you can just get your job done. That Apple has control of the complete tech stack so they can weed out hostile elements AND provide unique innovations and stability that is just not possible in more fragmented environments like windows, android etc.
The problem is that Apple is not really innovating anything, apart from more sophisticated consumer handcuffs. They choose to put millions of loyal users through the cable dance on a daily basis because earning that 2$ is more important to them than providing great products.
All of the above is nickel and dime stuff for the individual consumer.
But i plug in phones/tablets sometimes 50 times a day, pick them up plugged in maybe 150 times and it becomes clear that a 1 dollar cable for android outlasts Apple cables by a factor of 20, because Apple doesn't care, we are handcuffed as consumers. They dump ports and legacy formats with no warning when no suitable replacement exists, and they just do not care. And ICloud fails, you submit radar and Apple doesn't care, because you are handcuffed as a developer, And xyz framework doesn't work as documented, and Apple doesn't care, not anymore.

What they seem to care about is removing ports and functions, inventing new consumer handcuffs and making everything flatter, everything else seems to be flailing and meanwhile we have them babbling about Pokemon Go and spending years on an emoji keyboard for the macbook pro which is just a perfect fit (for my teen cousin, she keeps up with the Kardashians)

Historically no-one is more ruthless than Apple about ditching what they perceive to be legacy and going with things they think are the future. "Skating where the puck is headed, not where it's been". You best buckle up too because with only rare exceptions when Apple sneezes the PC OEMS catch cold.

 

[Grolubao]

Back in 85 it was suppose to cost $3000

Just sayin....

 

[ErikGrim]

From now on, this is required reading before any of you reply to further MacBook Pro threads:

http://macdaddy.io/apples-new-macbook-pros/

 

[frankgrimes]

From now on, this is required reading before any of you reply to further MacBook Pro threads:

http://macdaddy.io/apples-new-macbook-pros/

it's a very solid read and the guy defense some things very well...of course he is a Pro with tons of experience but he forgot something very important:

Apple is also limiting themselves with that thinner and lighter obsession. Ok so more than 16 gigabyte can't be assessed as fast? Maybe because it's DDR 3 instead of DDR 4 which allows insane ram speeds.

He also left out the keyboard which is also Apple's own limitation.

If the dgpu draws 75 watt work on a custom one with nvidia..Apple had 4 years to do that. Sans that make the battery removable and offer a second in case form so that way you can draw 99,5 x 2. Easily enough to power a try I 1060. Also the AMD pro card is the rx 480 not the 460, which is kind of a mid range card.

 

[ErikGrim]

pple is also limiting themselves with that thinner and lighter obsession. Ok so more than 16 gigabyte can't be assessed as fast? Maybe because it's DDR 3 instead of DDR 4 which allows insane ram speeds.

He also left out the keyboard which is also Apple's own limitation.

The three key metrics in an Apple laptop are

• weight (as light as possible)
• volume (as low as possible)
• 10 hour battery life

Everything else springs from those and having to conform to a sub 100w battery. That's why you won't see a heavier, hotter laptop just to eke out some extra GPU/CPU performance or more RAM. You might not agree with those metric goals for yourself, but at least you should be able to respect why Apple are making those choices.

 

[Arran]

Apple has lost touch with its users. What a train wreck

They also seem to have lost touch with their competitors, who don't suck as badly today as they did a decade ago. Back then Apple could easily demand extra dollars for a better experience, because the Apple experience reall was fundamentally better than anyone else's.

But $500 for an unproven, touch-bar "add-on" that will require substantial developer support to be useful. I'm not sure that's worth $500.

$100 maybe?

 

[Dmunjal]

The three key metrics in an Apple laptop are

• weight (as light as possible)
• volume (as low as possible)
• 10 hour battery life

Everything else springs from those and having to conform to a sub 100w battery. That's why you won't see a heavier, hotter laptop just to eke out some extra GPU/CPU performance or more RAM. You might not agree with those metric goals for yourself, but at least you should be able to respect why Apple are making those choices.

Here's a comparison with another laptop. HP built a lower priced, lower weight, higher performance laptop with a better keyboard and a convertible touchscreen.

The only thing lacking is the 10 hour battery life.

I think many would pick the Spectre x360 over the new MBP if it ran MacOS.

 

[btrach144]

They also seem to have lost touch with their competitors, who don't suck as badly today as they did a decade ago. Back then Apple could easily demand extra dollars for a better experience, because the Apple experience reall was fundamentally better than anyone else's.

But $500 for an unproven, touch-bar "add-on" that will require substantial developer support to be useful. I'm not sure that's worth $500.

$100 maybe?

Lenovo already tried the touch bar in their second gen X1 carbon laptop. Customers hated the feature so much, they switched back to mechanical keys in the 3rd generation. Granted Lenovo's touch bar wasn't a fancy colored OLED but it provided similar functionality and failed.

 

[dk001]

Lenovo already tried the touch bar in their second gen X1 carbon laptop. Customers hated the feature so much, they switched back to mechanical keys in the 3rd generation. Granted Lenovo's touch bar wasn't a fancy colored OLED but it provided similar functionality and failed.

The function did not translate well and was of limited value. Wasn't very "handy" either.

 

[Grolubao]

Here's a comparison with another laptop. HP built a lower priced, lower weight, higher performance laptop with a better keyboard and a convertible touchscreen.

The only thing lacking is the 10 hour battery life.

I think many would pick the Spectre x360 over the new MBP if it ran MacOS.

Did you ever tried that trackpad? It's literally disgusting, no where even near the Macbook pro

 

[Dmunjal]

Did you ever tried that trackpad? It's literally disgusting, no where even near the Macbook pro

But the keyboard is worse. I don't know if the track pad is worth $350.

 

[ErikGrim]

But $500 for an unproven, touch-bar "add-on" that will require substantial developer support to be useful. I'm not sure that's worth $500.

It is literally an extra computing device inside of your computer.

 

[Arran]

It is literally an extra computing device inside of your computer.

Agreed, but do you think it's worth $500?
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Lenovo already tried the touch bar in their second gen X1 carbon laptop. Customers hated the feature so much, they switched back to mechanical keys in the 3rd generation. Granted Lenovo's touch bar wasn't a fancy colored OLED but it provided similar functionality and failed.

I didn't know the idea had been tried before. Interesting.

Anyway, so I googled it, and sure enough...

 

[btrach144]

Agreed, but do you think it's worth $500?
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I didn't know the idea had been tried before. Interesting.

Anyway, so I googled it, and sure enough...

Yep, I actually have a gen 2 X1 carbon, which is why I knew about it. The touch bar is good but nothing beats having a dedicated key for volume, brightness, etc.

 

[ErikGrim]

Agreed, but do you think it's worth $500?

Considering it is an entire iOS device under there, I understand the price difference. As for worth it? From what I've seen, based on my workflow as a musician and DJ, absolutely. YMMV and no one can really know until they've tried it for themselves.