Apple's Plans for New Flagship San Francisco Store Receiving Criticism

[captain kaos]

To be honest it doesn't matter if some people don't like the fountain. Its someones art and if you let a big company rip it out just because they want their building there (and because they have the money to wave around), then where do you stop? I bet when they built the union station store they probably could start ripping things up there and they had to fit into the surrounds. Why then are they allowed to do things differently elsewhere?

 

[Saladinos]

The city council complains about the store that pays the most taxes in the whole of the USA (most likely). That's just absurd.

Apple could always take the store elsewhere.

I think the goal is that Apple take the store elsewhere.

On paying taxes - it's the law, man. Does paying taxes mean that they own your country? Can they now do whatever the hell they like? Because they pay taxes? They actually pay a much smaller share of their income in taxes than other companies like Wal-Mart do, but they're still the biggest absolute payer (not to mention biggest avoider) because of their enormous scale.

It's comments like this that make me sick. You read a tidbit somewhere but don't think of the implications it has.

 

[samcraig]

So you really think this is a story worth attention? Because the urban design critic at the San Francisco Chronicle criticized it? Please.

It has gotten attention. Whether I think it's worthy is irrelevant.

Didn't you know that Apple is supposed to release an international press statement, handsigned by Tim Cook, for every criticism they receive? Just to satisfy those old marketing dogs...

[/S]

Yes - please - let's talk hyperbole. I know you're being sarcastic - but we're having an actual conversation. No one is being irrational.

 

[HenryDJP]

To be honest it doesn't matter if some people don't like the fountain. Its someones art and if you let a big company rip it out just because they want their building there (and because they have the money to wave around), then where do you stop? I bet when they built the union station store they probably could start ripping things up there and they had to fit into the surrounds. Why then are they allowed to do things differently elsewhere?

Here's the thing though, San Francisco doesn't have much money as it is. I have a few friends that have been waiting more than 2 years to get into the SFPD. They are on a hiring freeze. If the city can find ways to generate revenue (and Apple is one big generator of revenue, especially for union square) the city might approve of the relocating of the fountain. You can have something beautiful to look at in a city that's broke or you can have a well run city taking care of itself by way of revenues from local stores. Pick your battles.

 

[captain kaos]

Here's the thing though, San Francisco doesn't have much money as it is. I have a few friends that have been waiting more than 2 years to get into the SFPD. They are on a hiring freeze. If the city can find ways to generate revenue (and Apple is one big generator of revenue, especially for union square) the city might approve of the relocating of the fountain. You can have something beautiful to look at in a city that's broke or you can have a well run city taking care of itself by way of revenues from local stores. Pick your battles.

I agree the fountain could be moved, which apple will pay for. And yes I sure the US is in the same state as the UK when it comes to money, but I'd be careful about bending over when a big company is throwing money around. You never know what your signing yourself up for.

 

[Saladinos]

Why people are not happy with it ?

It's the application of flat design on a building: totaly square, flat, nothing else.

People bitching about flat design all the time should be at least happy...

It looks nice from the front, but the first thing I thought when I saw it was how ugly it looks on the sides (and especially how ugly it must look from the back).

The point the guy makes about being in direct sunlight looks like a valid concern. Glass reflects a lot of light, so it's going to blind you from the other side and require a lot of air conditioning to cool.

Apple can do better than this.

 

[Drunken Master]

The fountain looks hideous.

I think that's the point, it's supposed to mirror the Spanish modernism of Gaudí in Barcelona; case in point:

 

[Saladinos]

Here's the thing though, San Francisco doesn't have much money as it is. I have a few friends that have been waiting more than 2 years to get into the SFPD. They are on a hiring freeze. If the city can find ways to generate revenue (and Apple is one big generator of revenue, especially for union square) the city might approve of the relocating of the fountain. You can have something beautiful to look at in a city that's broke or you can have a well run city taking care of itself by way of revenues from local stores. Pick your battles.

So your plan is that SF let Apple build this store regardless of the local impact, and then Apple will finally agree to pay a fair rate of tax?

The state has no money because of companies like Apple. If you cosy up to them, they'll just take you for a ride.

What about if some other company wanted to do that? You're on a really, really dangerous slope when you start becoming willing to bend the rules for some companies who have money.

 

[Renzatic]

I think that's the point, it's supposed to mirror the Spanish modernism of Gaudí in Barcelona; case in point...

Pointless Trivia: ON

Spanish Modernism usually refers to literature. What you're looking at there is an example of Art Nouveau architecture taken to its absolute most awesome craziest.

 

[HenryDJP]

So your plan is that SF let Apple build this store regardless of the local impact, and then Apple will finally agree to pay a fair rate of tax?

The state has no money because of companies like Apple. If you cosy up to them, they'll just take you for a ride.

What about if some other company wanted to do that? You're on a really, really dangerous slope when you start becoming willing to bend the rules for some companies who have money.

The state of California has no money because of companies like Apple? BS! Complete nonsense. Do you even live in the bay area? You don't sound like it.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Guy is right, the proposed store looks pretty boring. I'm all for glass use, but that dead wall on one side.. ugly box. Apple can do better should have tried to save the fountain.

Make the store bigger and put the fountain inside the store.

While waiting for a genius, people can throw money into it!
(On second thought don't, maybe taxable)

Problem solved!

 

[likalarry]

That fountain looks awesome. It will be a shame to displace it with another metal and glass retail box.

I love that fountain! Most corporate art is bland, cold and anonymous. The Hyatt fountain deserves a close look. Much of the modern history of SF is on that fountain, and it even includes Carol Doda. I'm sure Hyatt will find a respectful solution to its placement.

 

[MYOB]

excuse me sir

Even my grandmother's toes look better than this fountain... Build it anyways, Apple.

But by your profile it seems you are from Qatar. Have you been to San Francisco? Have you seen the sculpture close up? It is a work of art unlike your grandmothers toes I am sure.

I suggest you MYOB

 

[szw-mapple fan]

The PG&E bills in the summer and fall will probably cost more then their likely to sell in a month...

You are kidding right? $35,000?

EDIT: sorry, I meant $1,090,000

 

[sunspot42]

That plaza? Nice?

Well, one may not like the fountain but that plaza is quite nice and it'd be a shame to loose it for a box.

Um, I walk by here twice a day on my way to work. The "plaza" is just the dark, windswept gap between the Levi's store and the neighboring Grand Hyatt hotel tower. It's the exact opposite of "quite nice" - it's perfectly awful and you literally never see anybody up there except the occasional lost tourist. Even the homeless won't brave it - it's freezing in the winter and the winds whip around it like a hurricane year-round. A complete waste of space, and an ugly, brutalist one to boot.

On an architectural/engineering note the designer is an idiot that obviously doesn't take location into account because a huge glass wall with direct sunlight all day will turn that box into an oven. The PG&E bills in the summer and fall will probably cost more then their likely to sell in a month...

Maybe you should refrain from calling the designer an idiot, because that glass front faces south. It'll get little to no direct sun in the summertime outside of early mornings and late evenings. Anyhow, summertime is often colder than spring or fall here in San Francisco, Union Square is quite windy and the entire north side of the building will be well-shielded by the taller buildings behind and beside it. Climate control won't be an issue.

 

[maxosx]

A Glass Box.... that's innovation

It sure isn't design at it's finest...

 

[sunspot42]

Landmark? Hardly!

Ruth Asawa's Hyatt Fountain is an SF landmark.

Oh good grief. It squats off to one side of Stockton street, hidden behind the Levi store. It's about as much a "landmark" as the similar-looking piles of human waste you'll find a few blocks away, left behind by the ever-swelling homeless population. Until I saw the picture of it I couldn't even remember there *being* a fountain in that gale-stricken pit of a plaza. I've never seen a tourist take a picture of that thing in the decade and a half I've lived and worked less than 8 blocks away.

I have seen the JCDecaux street toilets get their pictures taken, repeatedly. Maybe Apple should offer to have one of those hauled onto that stretch of Stockton Street to take this eyesore's place. At least that would be a useful landmark...when it was working...

Like most public artwork of the '60s and '70s, that fountain looks like something the Soviet Politburo would have foisted on America had they won the Cold War. Apple should pay to have it relocated to one of San Francisco's sewage treatment plants, where it'll blend right in with the rest of the crap.

 

[CosmoCopus]

Bring your sunscreen and sunglasses.

 

[sunspot42]

This nails it...

San Fran is the capitol of whining. I am not surprised by this development.

Just had to see that again. Nails it.

 

[dec.]

A Glass Box.... that's innovation

It sure isn't design at it's finest...

To me it looks like a typical Apple store and I think that's the goal that they had on mind. Google/search for "Corporate Identity" when you get the chance.

 

[sunspot42]

Please Don't Confuse The Whiners With Facts

You do realize that the Levi's store there now is just a grey box with a largely glass front already, right? It seems to have fit in there for decades just fine.

Image

Now, there you go upsetting the crybabies with facts. You should know better than that.

The Apple store will be a much better-looking (and less imposing) slab of glass and concrete than the existing Levi store. I'll be happy to see the Levi store get the axe - like that fountain, it's also an eyesore from an era that blighted the city with numerous similar eyesores.

Good riddance!

----------

Have the people who dislike this fountain stopped to look at it? Do they only know it from photographs?

I recommend the people who don't like this fountain have a good look at it before they pass judgement. It is considered an SF landmark.

I live here. It looks worse in person than it does in the photographs. Between the homeless and the pigeons, god only knows what's festering in that thing.

And I'm sorry, but you'd have to be nuts to consider it any sort of "landmark". Unless you're often drunk in the neighborhood and looking for a good place to whip it out.

 

[Pietro25]

Oh good grief. It squats off to one side of Stockton street, hidden behind the Levi store. It's about as much a "landmark" as the similar-looking piles of human waste you'll find a few blocks away, left behind by the ever-swelling homeless population. Until I saw the picture of it I couldn't even remember there *being* a fountain in that gale-stricken pit of a plaza. I've never seen a tourist take a picture of that thing in the decade and a half I've lived and worked less than 8 blocks away.

Like most public artwork of the '60s and '70s, that fountain looks like something the Soviet Politburo would have foisted on America had they won the Cold War. Apple should pay to have it relocated to one of San Francisco's sewage treatment plants, where it'll blend right in with the rest of the crap.

Soviet artwork of the 60s and 70s? You're not versed in art history. Soviet artwork was heavy and power-laden. Asawa's piece is whimsical and playful. I have seen many people stopping to admire the work.

Good grief yourself. Go to the De Young Museum and see the permanent display of her work in the tower. You may note that the School of the Arts public high school in SF was recently renamed for her for her contributions to youth art education. You may also note her recent successes in New York at art auctions. This is a world-class artist.

I'm starting to get the impression that the software people who post here were born yesterday. I'm arguing for revering SF history. You're arguing for a glorified shoebox store.

 

[Pietro25]

And I'm sorry, but you'd have to be nuts to consider it any sort of "landmark". Unless you're often drunk in the neighborhood and looking for a good place to whip it out.

Cute. That's what passes for wit in your book. BTW, I live here too. I was born and educated in SF.

 

[maxosx]

To me it looks like a typical Apple store and I think that's the goal that they had on mind. Google/search for "Corporate Identity" when you get the chance.

Yes it's completely typical, and very predictable.

Yet rather dumbed down being an ugly box. Many of their clear see through stores actually have some styling cues and interesting architectural elements.

Perhaps they are simply keeping the glass manufacturing business they own... busy.

 

[dec.]

Yes it's completely typical, and very predictable.

Yet rather dumbed down being an ugly box. Many of their clear see through stores actually have some styling cues and interesting architectural elements.

Perhaps they are simply keeping the glass manufacturing business they own... busy.

I have only seen the mockup, I cannot tell if it's ugly or not and I don't know the architectual elements.

But.. since you seem(!) to freak out over every rumor (your posts in the "apple doubles the pixels"-thread already are legendary ;-) ) and mockup, I can understand your anxiety. My suggestion is: Keep cool.