Apple's Plans for New Flagship San Francisco Store Receiving Criticism

[sunspot42]

Every Old Hunk 'O Junk

I'm starting to get the impression that the software people who post here were born yesterday. I'm arguing for revering SF history. You're arguing for a glorified shoebox store.

I'm sorry, not every old hunk 'o junk out on the street is some priceless San Francisco heirloom, no matter how loud the local NIMBYs whine.

And I'm sure the local art scene considers this stuff priceless - it's the kind of obscure eyesore that seems right up the alley of San Francisco's self-appointed art elite. It must be extra specially politically-correct.

Having lived in Los Angeles - a city that has real museums and real art (heck, frickin' Pasadena has a better museum than anything in San Franciso) - I find San Francisco's offerings quaint, but ridiculously overrated by the laughably insular natives. You'd be hard pressed to find anybody in Los Angeles who would give two squats about this fountain. They've got better public art in their shopping malls, and Los Angeles is a cultural midget compared to New York...

Nobody outside of San Francisco takes your art scene particularly seriously, and for good reason. Even the minor museums in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York make San Francisco's finest look pretty pathetic.

I think things will get better for art in San Francisco when the MOMA expansion opens in a few years. The Fisher Collection is fairly impressive, and casts a net well outside of the insular Bay Area / Norcal scene. Hopefully it'll inspire a new generation of local artists to try harder, because San Francisco has certainly produced some world class visual artists, but they pretty much all had to leave for New York in order to really make it. The rise of Asia and the rapid growth of San Francisco - over 100,000 units are currently in the construction pipeline within city limits alone - could really transform the arts in this city, assuming the entrenched forces of provincialism don't inhibit it. Perhaps with all that new money will come some desperately-needed new blood.

 

[Pietro25]

Having lived in Los Angeles...

Los Angeles! Why didn't ya say so in the first place? I do hereby kowtow with deepest reverence and respect to you and your superior knowledge and experience in all matters regarding art, architecture, and epicure. And may I say, and I speak for everybody who lives in SF, how fortunate we are to have you in our midst.

 

[likalarry]

From Sunspot, about the Asawa fountain: "....Apple should pay to have it relocated to one of San Francisco's sewage treatment plants, where it'll blend right in with the rest of the crap.

Someone pee into your Cheerios this morning?

 

[ShinySteelRobot]

The point is the fountain has been in that location for 40 years. It is a work of art in it's own right like it or not. I addition to that is a unique piece that should be protected. Apple should have worked that landmark into their design instead of axing it completely.

I've been past there many times when I lived in the area, and can confirm the fountain is indeed fugly. Pictures don't do it justice, you really have to see it in person to appreciate the full extent of its fugliness.

In my own humble opinion, I would like to see Apple incorporate that landmark into the store's design by burying it under about 6 feet of solid concrete foundation.

 

[iPadPublisher]

This fountain is made out of bronze; now, 40 years after it left the foundry, the bronze has a lovely green patina. Anything that large cast in bronze is made to last a long time.

I wasn't doubting that it could last forever. I was doubting whether the public intended it (or more generically any public art) to be permanent.

 

[ShinySteelRobot]

I have seen many people stopping to admire the work.

Did you ask them what they thought? I have stopped and stared at it in the past. I was "admiring" it in the same way I "admire" finding something unpleasant stuck to the bottom of my shoe.

 

[onigami]

Are there grounds? Yeah, pretty much. Silicon Valley, and all that. Feel free to add other cities to a very short list, but if SF isn't #1 or #2 on your list don't expect anyone to think you have any idea what you're talking about.

The only claim SF can have to Silicon Valley is all the derpy techies that are being thrust onto them because Mountain View, Redwood City, Palo Alto, and other cities in the Peninsula refuse to develop an effective housing policy (they are even worse than SF) other than "keep away the heathen techies," essentially passing the buck to the City. Just because the techies are turning SF into a bedroom suburb doesn't mean it is suddenly an "innovative city." Lee's been a giant sack of vomit since Newsom gave him the keys to the city, and anything he says is instant drivel.

 

[JAT]

I'm pretty sure the press is using Apple because it's Apple's building plan

So, a company dictates to the city how public property is used or removed? Perhaps San Francisco operates differently from other cities. Or perhaps there is paranoia and angst surrounding Apple.

One of those seems more likely than the other.

 

[onigami]

As it stands, the real reason Apple is moving is because of the construction around that area: Muni is currently converting Powell Street station (of which the current storefront has an entrance right next to it) into this giant transit hub (I understand it being similar to the joint Park Street/Downtown Crossing stations on the T in Boston) as part of the white elephant that is the Central Subway project. The current storefront, which faces Stockton Street, is basically hidden by all this construction right now, and the aforementioned entrance (which was an innovative feature at the time) is now sealed off because of the construction. The project won't be finished for at least another 6 years (probably longer), and I suspect that, because of the new station being created, that it will take just as long for the construction at that part of Stockton to clear up.

Apple, being the design snobs that they are, don't like that. To them, it looks offensive, even more hideous than that fountain you elitist snots like to pick on. And six years of dealing with that is like a Valley Girl dealing with anything boring: They just can't deal. The point of moving is to get away from the construction. This new location, while also adjacent to Stockton, is facing Post Street and the plaza. Even if they face tunnel construction next to them (unlikely, given the tunneling will be done by 2014/5), the business impact will be minimal simply because the storefront will not be facing it. Odds are, if they get all their permits and the lease done this year (which, given the Board of Supervisors' nearly-unanimous selling-out (I suspect Avalos and Campos will be the nays), is a given), they could have this new store ready, say, late 2014/early 2015. This allows them to ride out the construction.

 

[otismotive77]

I myself praise Apple's plans.

So could you please change the thread title to "Apple's Plans for New Flagship San Francisco Store Receiving Praise"?

hahaha, same here. i'm also supporting apple, change the thread's name.

 

[indiekiduk]

John King has clearly been out of the game for a long time and doesn't realize that Apple's glass front and roof design isn't from a mall store. 3 stone walls and one of glass and a glass roof is something only possible recently with apple's innovation in large glass tiles. I don't know what malls he's been to that have glass roofs on the stores I've certainly never seen one.

I've been to Union Sq many times and there are plenty of steps on the square already, and personally never noticed the steps behind the Levi store or the fountain. If the fountain is so important it should be moved to a place where visitors actually see it.

 

[dampfnudel]

The large windows will create huge air-conditioning bills? They will reduce heating bills This is San Francisco.

"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"

I found that out the first time I visited as a kid. It was July and I'm used to the typical hot and humid New York summer. My parents and I arrived in SF in the early evening and it didn't take long for me to realize my shorts wouldn't cut it. I changed to jeans and a jacket before we left our room at the St. Francis to get a bite to eat. It was actually a refreshing and pleasant change for us.

 

[iPadPublisher]

I'm starting to get the impression that the software people who post here were born yesterday. I'm arguing for revering SF history. You're arguing for a glorified shoebox store.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, but I would like to point out that art is subjective. What you revere, another may be repulsed by. It's a fine line telling another man what he should appreciate.

Hopefully a tasteful compromise of sorts can exist.

 

[batchtaster]

Apple's reality distortion field in full effect.

Right, so it's Apple messing with people's minds that makes them believe that a fountain is ugly. In spite of Apple not saying a thing about it or even acknowledging it, and only the critic saying anything about it.

Quoting "Apple's reality distortion field" is also cool these days. Apple Hipsterism at its best - blame them regardless of what they have even said or done. Hipsters jumping to them being evil and wrong isn't any better than a Fanboi jumping to them assuming they're always right and above reproach. In fact, it's the exact same thing.

Nice abuse of the word "reality" too, given your quote about the beholder. Tell me more about what's real and factual, as opposed to subjective. Like fountain ugliness.

 

[MrNomNoms]

Soviet artwork of the 60s and 70s? You're not versed in art history. Soviet artwork was heavy and power-laden. Asawa's piece is whimsical and playful. I have seen many people stopping to admire the work.

Good grief yourself. Go to the De Young Museum and see the permanent display of her work in the tower. You may note that the School of the Arts public high school in SF was recently renamed for her for her contributions to youth art education. You may also note her recent successes in New York at art auctions. This is a world-class artist.

I'm starting to get the impression that the software people who post here were born yesterday. I'm arguing for revering SF history. You're arguing for a glorified shoebox store.

Heck, I've only had casual glance at art history and even I know that the fountain looks nothing like the Soviet style architecture from the 60s and 70s! Heck, the fountain is hideously chaotic but Soviet style it most certainly not.

 

[anomie]

Nice, clean looking store.

Clean and boring.
Apple is stuck in 2003 or so.
Now even their stores lack innovation.

 

[alexgowers]

I agree with them, it's uninspiring in so many ways.

It seems to take no responsibility for being on a corner at all instead just facing one direction. I would have thought considering all the other stores and how they try to innovate a cool design out of a problem would have tried to solve that one elegantly.

I guess when it's not a high profile area you can consider it just another apple fudge rather than a full on bit of genius like the flagships.

I guess what apple is saying is that this isn't a massive flagship area.

 

[samcraig]

So, a company dictates to the city how public property is used or removed? Perhaps San Francisco operates differently from other cities. Or perhaps there is paranoia and angst surrounding Apple.

One of those seems more likely than the other.

Where did I say that? It's a new story because it's Apple's future building project that would potentially mean removing the fountain from it's current location. For someone to imply that this story is only a story because it's "Apple" is silly.

 

[dfuerpo]

Mr. John King, an "urban design critic", your title just about says it all. I own Apple products but am no fawning fanboy. Mr. King's remarks are, like most critics, bulls**t! I really like the comparison to "Anymall, USA." Your contempt for average Americans is showing Mr. King; better cover up.

 

[Carlanga]

Seems like a small enough fountain to be placed next to some apple glass stairs and keep some art history... I guess. To me the fountain looks more messy than art that needs to be saved since its an important art piece? but I'm no art expert.

 

[moseman23]

Some background

Please leave aside the Apple fanboidom/trolling.

Ruth Asawa is a universally loved artist (still living) whose amazing sculptures adorn many of SF's great public spaces. The Levi's plaza provides an open an inviting introduction to Union Square. I really like a lot of Apple's stores, but this design just looks like an ugly glass billboard box for a company that has lost sight of good design and self-perspective.

John King is not just some complainer; he's the city's foremost architectural critic and generally regarded as a reasonable, pragmatic voice for the changing skyline in the city. His voice carries a lot of weight in all political circles; his criticism had a lot to do with the failure of the Fisher family to build a huge art museum in the middle of the Presidio. It's going to be downtown, and everybody seems happier about it.

Why not use the fancy Interwebs to learn a little about these places and the people involved.

 

[JAT]

Where did I say that? It's a new story because it's Apple's future building project that would potentially mean removing the fountain from it's current location. For someone to imply that this story is only a story because it's "Apple" is silly.

So, if Kmart was building there, would you have heard about it?

 

[darkplanets]

Having not been born in SF, but currently living there, I can certainly say that people in this city have peculiar sensibilities when it comes to sentimentalism and changing design.

Simply put, people in SF love to bitch about everything and anything if given the chance. The only thing revered is the past.

I think some of the most amusing criticisms I've heard of late is of Mission Bay, where some people have taken the position that it should have either remained a warehouse hub or be transformed into the painted ladies 2.0, and that the biotech buildings (and new UCSF campus) "aren't inviting enough."

 

[samcraig]

So, if Kmart was building there, would you have heard about it?

Not on this site. But if you're asking if the author would have written an article. No idea. What does this KMart building look like? Would they be removing the fountain?

 

[JAT]

Not on this site. But if you're asking if the author would have written an article. No idea. What does this KMart building look like? Would they be removing the fountain?

Let's assume they remove it. I would say...starting about 2 miles away from the site, nobody not searching for info on this particular fountain would ever see it.

As I said in my OP, and can easily be seen right in this thread when reviewing only posts from local residents, this is a very localized political issue that happens to involve Apple. It wouldn't be news on any sort of scale if it didn't involve Apple. The city could easily tell any developer to incorporate the fountain in a new design. Why aren't they?