Apple's Pro Display XDR is Nearly Five Years Old With No Update in Sight

[Zest28]

Except the 6k Dell U3224KBA, which is pretty similar but half the price.

It's like saying a $500 4K@120hz gaming monitor is similar to a $43.000 4K@120hz professional reference master display just because of specs.

 

[DavidSchaub]

TB4 doesn’t support 5K @ 120Hz.

TB4 has a theoretical maximum speed of 40Gbsp, and that includes the protocol management. In reality the peak speed is ~22Gps. Moreover, TB4 allocates a maximum of 8Gbs to video, so there’s no way to support 5K at 120Hz.

I was just saying that bandwidth wasn't the primary problem because of DSC, not whether it was supported.

Where is your 22 Gbps number coming from? I'd like to see a URL breaking that down.

When the RX 580X Mac Pro was used with the XDR it didn't support DSC, but was still able to work because the Mac could send more than 4 lanes of DisplayPort (thanks to Thunderbolts). When using TB, there is a trick where bunch of DisplayPort stuffing data can be dropped, but that doesn't save 14 Gbps worth of data.

The lane setup was: 1xHBR1 + 4xHBR3 (I need to double check this, the math isn't' quite right, but I can't quite find the MacRumors conversation that talked about it years ago).

which still ads up to about 35 Gbps.

 

[radus]

I bought it when it came out.
Had to replace it after 2,5 years ( warranty replacement ).
It is not bad or great.

 

[fathobbit]

I will need a new display soon—either this fall or whenever the updated Mac Studio is released (thinking WWDC25). I'm really only thinking about two options:

• LG C4 OLED 42" TV
• Apple Studio Display 27"

OLED is pretty awesome, and the LG at 42 inches is very tempting. I would have it a foot or more farther than my current iMac so screen resolution likely won't be that bad, but it isn't retina so my concern is that even at the farthest distance it might just not work out for me, especially reading text.

The Apple Studio Display has a lot going for it, but there are minor improvements that would make it an easier decision.

1. Lower the price a bit; this would be a no-hesitation purchase at $999
2. Make the power cord removable; sometimes you just need to unplug to more easily move things around or manage cables.
3. Have a power on/off button; sometimes I may want to run a headless Mac or just have the ability to turn off the display.

Then we could talk major improvements like going OLED, but I really don't mind much about the lack of 120Hz (which is so often stated by others)—and the fact that common state of components really can't run 5k at 120Hz seems to be overlooked.

I just preordered the ProArt 27” 5K monitor 5K PA27JCV. It looks promising.

 

[lewchenko]

I have a studio and it’s a great display but I also have a 28” 4K 144hz screen as well that was much cheaper and arguably just as good for my needs. (Development).

 

[seek3r]

Then why bother in developing a display in a first place? Very nice display for a very very niche market. Ton of money and time to design and manufacture, to ultimately sell probably less than 100.000 units worldwide. It is obvious why do see the need of update, even a modest one.

It definitely sells enough to make it worth Apple keeping it around, and as for an update what would you want? The biggest requests arent practical yet, they cant jump to 120hz without more bandwidth, TB5 isnt on anything yet, and OLED panels dont come in the right pixel density at that size yet.

 

[iSayuSay]

By today's standard, $5K monitor would get you an OLED display with 240Hz refresh rate. Well maybe tune it down to 120Hz ProMotion but more color accurate. I mean come on! MiniLED is so outdated.

 

[CWallace]

Both studio and XDR monitors are failure.

For studio display, it's just another display with iMac 5K which has been used for almost a decade! Re-housing the monitor is not a good idea.

A lot of people waited YEARS for Apple to release a standalone 5K display. I am quite confident in believing it sold much better than many of the "pundits" here believe it did.

For XDR, they completely failed with a false advertisement that XDR is equal or better than reference monitors. And yet, XDR was NEVER come close to it especially with less mini-LED.

Sure it is not as good as a true reference display, but those all max out at 4K so all you can put on it is your video feed and you need a second monitor for all your tool menus. At 6K, you can have both on one display. And the "real pros" are all using $30,000 Sony reference TVs, anyway.

They seriously need to update both monitors with decent specs cause they are the only professional monitors with glossy finish under $5000.

You could argue that because they are the "only" option, Apple doesn't feel the pressure to update them since it is a captive market.

I don't know...maybe because Apple would sell more displays if they improved the technology at shorter intervals. What if they only upgraded MacBooks every 5-7 years? All hell would break loose, that's what.

I am sure people would buy a better display, but a lot more people would fill this forum with complaints about how damn expensive it is.

Except the 6k Dell U3224KBA, which is pretty similar but half the price.

The U3224KBA is a great way to get 6K retina for a lot less than a Pro Display XDR, but it is objectively not as good a display. I have seen them side by side and the Pro Display XDR crushes it on display quality.

 

[driveman]

I was just saying that bandwidth wasn't the primary problem because of DSC, not whether it was supported.

Where is your 22 Gbps number coming from? I'd like to see a URL breaking that down.

Here

 

[dazzer21-2]

It makes me wonder, if the 5 year old XDR is still priced at $5K, what sort of display tech will be in an upcoming, presumably 6K, 32” iMac Pro? And what will it cost?

 

[VisceralRealist]

I'm assuming they don't update these because 1) they're not big sellers, 2) improving display technology at this size and resolution is just prohibitively expensive. It wasn't that long ago that running 5K at 120Hz was impossible with current Thunderbolt technology. I think we will see a mini-LED Studio Display with 120Hz (and eventually an OLED), but it will be a while until we do. Maybe when the MacBook Pro transitions to OLED.

 

[seek3r]

By today's standard, $5K monitor would get you an OLED display with 240Hz refresh rate. Well maybe tune it down to 120Hz ProMotion but more color accurate. I mean come on! MiniLED is so outdated.

At 1080p sure, at 4k yes, though rare, but not at 6k at all, anywhere

 

[JayKay514]

As a pro user (web design, music production, light video editing), I always need more pixel real estate, and decent color fidelity, but I don’t need 120Hz refresh rates, or even 60Hz for that matter. I currently have the LG 5K which is great but I definitely could use more screen space.

I would love a Retina 7k2k display (dual UHD, like Samsung’s Odyssey G9, maybe curved, maybe OLED) solely so I can have multiple pro apps open side-by-side like a browser + coding app, vector editor and Figma, Logic Pro + plugin UIs, etc.

I don’t need pro reference color matching beyond P3 at best.

As for convenience features, an actual Thunderbolt 4 hub built-in with multiple TB ports and 4-6 USB4 / USBC ports would be awesome; a decent DAC and headphone port would be nice.

Bonuses: A webcam that has a camcorder-sized lens, a 50mm equivalent to avoid fisheye; and built-in soft lighting to eliminate shadows on video calls / streaming. (alternatively, an under-display camera?)

Extra bonus: wireless charging in the base (phone, watch, airpods)?

 

[Ethosik]

Everything geared towards professionals is stalled and it is frustrating. Mac Pro and Mac Studio, along with these displays. Apple will never regain its trust with the pro market after the 2013 trash can Mac Pro if they don't put in the efforts.

 

[seek3r]

Extra bonus: wireless charging in the base (phone, watch, airpods)?

Good displays last a very long time, as long as 20 years often, think about how much magsafe/qi has evolved in the last few years. Adding that to the base would age very very poorly

 

[Realityck]

Good displays last a very long time, as long as 20 years often, think about how much magsafe/qi has evolved in the last few years. Adding that to the base would age very very poorly

reference

TECHBUZZ Archives - Tech Talkies

lapworks.net

Rapid advancements in technology can render older monitors obsolete sooner. As newer technologies emerge, older monitors may struggle to keep up with the demands of modern software and display standards. While this doesn’t necessarily affect the physical lifespan of the monitor, it can make it less useful and less compatible with newer devices.

While I seen some displays last a long time, that doesn't make its all beneficial in the long run. Current I/O support is very important, so is meeting your usage patterns with the visual quality reproduction. What we are discussing really is with this 5 years old example and others when will Apple switch from mini-LED to an improved OLED?

 

[DavidSchaub]

Here

Thanks. I think there's one inaccuracy in this paragraph, because Apple is tricksy, and it seems a bit muddled to me.

If you are just using USB-C DisplayPort alt mode 1.4, the above is mostly true, though I believe the display bandwidth is about 25Gbps, not 22Gbps.

HRB3 8.1 Gbps * 4 = 32.4 Gbps
32.4 * 0.8 = 25.9 Gbps (removing encoding overhead, but there is MORE overhead, noted later)

But... that isn't what Apple is doing. If it was, the base Mac Pro 2019 never would have been able to run the XDR at 6K, the math doesn't work.

DisplayPort alt mode can use 4 lanes of PCIe, but there are also 4 lanes of TB available (as long as the total doesn't go beyond 40 Gbps).

When Apple is running a "Thunderbolt Display", it can run more than 4 lanes of DisplayPort. This bandwidth approaching 40Gbps.

Apple also breaks the tunneling layers a bit. Apple doesn't transmit some of the DP protocol timing and framing data (blank stuffing, etc), which lets them pull off non-DSC 6K throughput in 40Gbps across >4 lanes.

The 8/10 encoding is DisplayPort 1.4 overhead I think, not Thunderbolt overhead.

With DSC, there is a pile more effective bandwidth available, it is just a matter of all the steps in the chain supporting it.

 

[JayKay514]

Good displays last a very long time, as long as 20 years often, think about how much magsafe/qi has evolved in the last few years. Adding that to the base would age very very poorly

I've never seen a display last that long, because over 20 years ago backlighting was done with thin fluorescent tubes and the ballasts / tubes inevitably died, and they weren't really designed to be repairable. Also, because LCDs are chemical in nature, they don't last forever either; they slowly degrade and the display develops dark / light spots, etc.

In addition, connectivity standards have changed a lot over the last few decades, to keep up with both broadcast standards and computer capabilities. A non-exhaustive list:

• composite video / TV video
• component video
• S-Video
• CGA (Color Graphics Adapter, IBM PC)
• Hercules monochrome graphics
• EGA
• VGA
• SVGA
• 720p HD - DVD discs
• XGA
• WXGA
• SXGA
• 1080p Full HD - Blu-Ray discs
• DCI 2K for cinema cameras
• an alphabet soup of WXGA, UWXGA, QWXGA, QHD, WQHD, etc.
• Ultra-Wide 4K (on Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs)
• UHD 4K
• DCI 4K
• Ultra-Wide 5K (aka 5K2K)
• Ultra-Wide 8K (aka 7K3K)
• True 8K
• and on and on and on......

And these all needed different plugs, signaling protocols, and qualified cabling to work properly.

Maybe high-end analog CRTs might last a couple of decades if properly maintained, but even phosphor materials degrade and suffer from burn-in (as did plasma TVs) so you'd need a new picture tube every couple of decades, maybe more often if you're using it for precise color-calibrated work.

Yeah, adding some convenience features might not date well, like ashtrays and cigarette lighters in cars, but looking at my desktop now, there's so many things that I wish could be combined into a single unit to de-clutter all the cables and reduce the number of power adapters.

A monitor that had built-in rear LEDs for contrast (reduces eyestrain), front LEDs for video, a Thunderbolt/USB hub, and a wide flat Qi-compatible charging surface for up to 3 devices would let me get rid of:

• Govee light bars, control pod and AC adapter
• Plugable USB-C hub and huge external power brick
• Razer video ring light, stand, control pod and AC adapter
• Watch charging stand and AC adapter
• Qi phone charging stand + cable
• Thunderbolt hub to connect downstream devices / monitors etc.

At this point, I don't see the industry shifting away from using USB-C connectors except for specialized use cases, we have power delivery over USB-C / Thunderbolt, and the Qi charging standard is used across millions if not billions of phones so it's likely not going to disappear overnight.

I worry that we get so fixated on something from the future that may or may not come to fruition or within an expected timeframe that we neglect to create real solutions that solve problems in the here and now.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Not really though..
Mini led with More dimming zones..
Duo layer oled..
120hz refresh rate with usb4.0/thunderbolt 5..
A small os that supports airplay and other basic apps..

A lot could happen

Can a dual-layer OLED even support 1600 nits brightness in a 32" panel? I suspect not.

 

[BeatCrazy]

It makes me wonder, if the 5 year old XDR is still priced at $5K, what sort of display tech will be in an upcoming, presumably 6K, 32” iMac Pro? And what will it cost?

You're pointing out exactly why there will never be a 32" iMac Pro. Too expensive for pro users who would make the smarter choice to go with standalone display + Mac.

 

[john123]

“Wow”
-Owen Wilson.

Best response of the whole thread. I heard it crisply in my head.

 

[sunny5]

This thread is a good reminder of how clueless most people (even what one would assume are hardcore tech enthusiasts) are about anything and everything.

These displays (the XDRs specially) don't need updates because there's literally no one else in the market making anything that even comes close to them. They don't go on sale because even at a 50% discount it is still too expensive for most people, HOWEVER those that would buy them because they can afford them and can get the use out of them will buy them at full price, because like I said, no one else makes anything like this.

Heck the Thunderbolt Display is still far ahead most monitors on the market and that released 13 years ago.

The people asking for 120hz and OLED on top, while complaining about price in the same breath are even more clueless about display technology.

The same somewhat applies to the Studio Display, except the real reason for it never going on sale is that it doesn't need to because it has a killer feature that no other monitor on the market has: Retina appropriate pixel density. The way MacOS is set up, the only way to get the full experience as Apple intended it is by using the Studio Display as a monitor because of scaling hijinks that feel very much on purpose.

Really I'm currently using a M1 iMac and I want to switch to a Mac Mini, but the one thing that holds me back is that there's literally no monitors on the market like the one on this iMac except for the Studio Display which is very expensive for a consumer monitor with such few bells and whistles (basically none). This is in essence the same tactic they use with ProMotion. One could call that greed, but if you have a unique product that has no substitute, would you really put it on sale? Especially when the profit margin is probably big enough to more than make up for the lack of volume? I think not.

premium products demand premium prices and for ill or good, there's nothing like these monitors on the market right now.

Yeah, no one makes them and they are the only one making nice glossy monitors but does not mean they are great. For instance, XDR monitor is already fall behind right after they were released due to low dimming zones. Besides, it was Apple who advertised that XDR is as good as OR better than reference monitors which never did. Studio display is just another 5K iMac since 2014 and 8bit is a joke for $1500 worth monitor.

It would be nice if they can make the best glossy monitor with two different product based on max sustainable brightness, dimming zones with more mini-LED OR OLED panel, 10 bit color, hardware calibration, hood, and more then I would understand but for now, both XDR and Studio monitors are totally bad and requires better updates soon.

It's such a pity that Apple is not updating their poor monitors with better specs to compete and distinguish with others instead of just higher prices.

 

[sunny5]

Can a dual-layer OLED even support 1600 nits brightness in a 32" panel? I suspect not.

We dont know that yet cause Apple is the first to use dual OLED. Yes, there were being used for vehicles but not for monitors. But of course, making it dual does not mean it could replace mini-LED or LCD.

 

[spcopsmac21]

Best response of the whole thread. I heard it crisply in my head.

 

[sunny5]

I believe they should make a new XDR in 2 years as they replace thunderbolt displays with XDR in 5 years. But it would be nice if they reduce the price cause the stand for $999 is a joke.