Apple's Push Into AI Allegedly Happened After Craig Federighi Tried Microsoft AI Coding Tool

[purplerainpurplerain]

Read what I said.

I know how to read and most importantly I know how macOS works and what an app can and can’t do on it.

I need to look at long term. I would not be surprised if Adobe changes to scan local files too.

Adobe cannot scan local files. This is a technical question not a hypothetical one. You literally have settings that disallow any app from accessing any folder you want.

They cannot even record what you are doing on screen without asking for screen recording permissions.

If an app developer could decide to scan all your local files without your knowledge it won’t just be Adobe. Many of them would do it.

Also, I trust my lawyers over an Adobe FAQ

Tell your lawyers to understand the privacy controls offered in macOS system preferences and if they don’t understand it don’t use a lawyer anymore. Use logic.

Focus your anger or fears on cloud instead. Use encrypted images. You should have always done so for many years before now.

 

[Ethosik]

Adobe cannot scan local files. This is a technical question not a hypothetical one. You literally have settings that disallow any app from accessing any folder you want.

Yes they can. I have looked at training my own AI from local files. They can scan locally no problem. That is entirely what Recall is doing is local scanning. Adobe can utilize such technologies and upload the results.

Photoshop needs access to the folder to even open the PSD. So yes, it will have access to scan such local file.

 

[Ethosik]

Tell your lawyers to understand the privacy controls offered in macOS system preferences and if they don’t understand it don’t use a lawyer anymore. Use logic.

Sorry, I am not putting millions at risk for a NDA or contract breach because someone on Macrumors says "ITS SAFE TRUST ME BRO". I trust my lawyer, I have worked with him for a long time.

You just are not getting it. System Preferences will disable access to the folder yes, but that also means Photoshop and other apps cannot open such file. Photoshop needs access to the folder to work on the files.

 

[DanVM]

Yes they can. I have looked at training my own AI from local files. They can scan locally no problem. That is entirely what Recall is doing is local scanning. Adobe can utilize such technologies and upload the results.

Photoshop needs access to the folder to even open the PSD. So yes, it will have access to scan such local file.

From what I have read, Recall does not do a local scanning of files. Instead, it takes snapshots and process them so you can search content.

Privacy and control over your Recall experience - Microsoft Support
Update on the Recall preview feature for Copilot+ PCs | Windows Experience Blog

Also, I could understand your worries about the Adobe ToS. Yesterday they clarified the ToS changes.

A clarification on Adobe Terms of Use | Adobe Blog

I'm not sure if this will alleviate your concerns, but at least you now have more information regarding the changes.

 

[wilhoitm]

There's about 18 months between December 2022 and May 2024. M4 was probably well into the design cycle but it shouldn't have been too late to make changes to focus on NPU.

If Apple had stepped on the NPU gas earlier, Apple should be occupying the bright orange bar.

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The M4 Max will probably blow the Tyson out of the water! Remember currently the M4 is just in an iPad!

 

[purplerainpurplerain]

Sorry, I am not putting millions at risk for a NDA or contract breach because someone on Macrumors says "ITS SAFE TRUST ME BRO". I trust my lawyer, I have worked with him for a long time.

You just are not getting it. System Preferences will disable access to the folder yes, but that also means Photoshop and other apps cannot open such file. Photoshop needs access to the folder to work on the files.

There’s no local scanning or local training by Adobe. End of story. If they said they aren’t doing that then they are legally bound. Ask your potato lawyer. Even Apple can’t do it without legal consent and saying so.

 

[purplerainpurplerain]

From what I have read, Recall does not do a local scanning of files.

Man doesn’t understand and makes a comparison with Recall which is totally different. Can’t be bothered to reason with him.

 

[Ethosik]

There’s no local scanning or local training by Adobe. End of story. If they said they aren’t doing that then they are legally bound. Ask your potato lawyer. Even Apple can’t do it without legal consent and saying so.

FOR NOW. The TOS can change in the future to do this, that is the point. Trust is broken.

Unity pulled a change to TOS without any notice too, and they faced backlash.

Why do you continue to be insulting. "Potato lawyer"?

 

[Ethosik]

From what I have read, Recall does not do a local scanning of files. Instead, it takes snapshots and process them so you can search content.

Privacy and control over your Recall experience - Microsoft Support
Update on the Recall preview feature for Copilot+ PCs | Windows Experience Blog

Also, I could understand your worries about the Adobe ToS. Yesterday they clarified the ToS changes.

A clarification on Adobe Terms of Use | Adobe Blog

I'm not sure if this will alleviate your concerns, but at least you now have more information regarding the changes.

That is not the point. The point was the argument that Adobe wouldn't do any local processing due to AI, its not technically possible. Recall is local, performs OCR and AI from your screen shots. Searching "Brown bag" with no text but a picture of a brown bag works. I was responding to the statement that its not technically possible for local processing, that is all. I mean NVIDIA GPUs and upcoming M4 chips are going to allow more local processing of AI. So it is technically possible.

 

[Ethosik]

Man doesn’t understand and makes a comparison with Recall which is totally different. Can’t be bothered to reason with him.

Recall process AI locally. THAT IS THE POINT. You said it is not technically possible for Adobe to perform any AI analysis locally. Recall is running locally.

 

[JPack]

The M4 Max will probably blow the Tyson out of the water! Remember currently the M4 is just in an iPad!

For M1, M2, and M3, the Pro/Max versions retain the same NPU core count as the base chips. I would expect the same for M4.

 

[Marty80]

Even though I have absolutely no interest in AI, Apple was late in the game & rushed to get it out. Which means bugs a plenty, much like Microsoft’s version.

I can live without it & will continue to use my 12 pro max until I upgrade to a iPhone 17 or 18 pro or ultra. Or until Siri tells me otherwise 😉

 

[Porkchop-76]

They are leasing AI from ChatGPT and putting their own spin on it. At least that's my take on it.

 

[thebart]

Adobe cannot scan local files. This is a technical question not a hypothetical one. You literally have settings that disallow any app from accessing any folder you want.

.

I've never had MacOS ask if I want to allow an app to access this or that folder, only a broad permission to access storage, which I invariably grant because most apps would be useless if they couldn't read write to storage.

Malwarebytes for Mac exists. I don't know exactly what files it has access to but it must have somewhat broad access to do a scan otherwise it would not be much use. I don't recall giving it any special access beyond the one mentioned above

Adobe wouldn't need to scan your sensitive system files, only folders where you are likely to keep your work, if their intent were to scan your work for training. For that, they don't need any special permission. The only thing keeping them from doing that is the legal and PR sh##storm that would result if they were caught

 

[Ethosik]

I've never had MacOS ask if I want to allow an app to access this or that folder, only a broad permission to access storage, which I invariably grant because most apps would be useless if they couldn't read write to storage.

Malwarebytes for Mac exists. I don't know exactly what files it has access to but it must have somewhat broad access to do a scan otherwise it would not be much use. I don't recall giving it any special access beyond the one mentioned above

Adobe wouldn't need to scan your sensitive system files, only folders where you are likely to keep your work, if their intent were to scan your work for training. For that, they don't need any special permission. The only thing keeping them from doing that is the legal and PR sh##storm that would result if they were caught

Yep precisely. There is nothing stopping Adobe from updating the TOS again to scan local files to continue to "train their AI". That is the main cause here. And it certainly will take a very long time to move EVERYTHING to any form of alternative, so yes I am addressing this now.

Ultimately, if you can open a PSD file for working in Photoshop, then Photoshop has access to said file and it can scan it.

 

[purplerainpurplerain]

I've never had MacOS ask if I want to allow an app to access this or that folde

MacOS???? If you are using an Apple product you should have been autocorrected to macOS.

Just about every app when you save to the Desktop or Documents folder will trigger macOS to ask if you want to give permissions.

Malwarebytes for Mac exists. I don't know exactly what files it has access to but it must have somewhat broad access to do a scan otherwise it would not be much use. I don't recall giving it any special access beyond the one mentioned above

You don’t recall giving a virus scanner permission to virus scan and clicking the OK button?

The comparison is a bad one anyway. Virus scanners have to download definitions to work.

An app that can scan all your local image documents for the purpose of training “AI” has to upload that data to a server for processing because local resources are not powerful enough for training. Adobe and others have zero access to any folder outside their cloud sync system to be able to do this. It’s illegal and there are no terms and conditions that can make it legal. Stop using any cloud service for file saving without encrypting your documents inside a disk image.

One thing that macOS and Windows really needs built in is the ability to create passworded zip files so that when we upload documents to clients they are encrypted and cannot be read by a third party or cloud provider.

 

[purplerainpurplerain]

Yep precisely. There is nothing stopping Adobe from updating the TOS again to scan local files to continue to "train their AI".

BS. They can’t legally do it. It’s not their device. Even Apple won’t do it and they already backtracked on scanning for CSAM on iPhones even though they were using a private method.

 

[9081094]

Motorola/IBM made them and their only failure was they consumed a lot of energy. They were clock for clock better than Intel for many years and drove Apple’s growth.

The mach kernel that macOS sits on always ran on Intel chips going back to the 90s. You can download the Intel version of NextSTEP and run it in Virtual Box.

They had problems to up the clock speed of the G4 when Intel began running circles around the PowerPC. It was a joint project between Apple/ibm/motorola. It was a big failure. First Apple mocked intel with their snail ads. Then Apple switched to intel 🤪.

There was no Apple car. They were developing sensors and software for navigation systems and dashboards. There is no evidence that they would have built a car and doing so is extremely costly.

They’ve put billions into project titan and thousands of engineers were working on this project. Name one car brand that uses the new CarPlay. No car manufacturers are trusting Apple to take over their dashboard systems while Android auto gets widely used. Also a big failure.

It’s not an “AI”. It’s an application interface and has been successful enough for what it does.

I’ve never said Siri was AI. I only said it was a big failure. And it still is. If they promise to make it better by 2025 as the rumors suggest, it’s even more behind the competition.

It’s literally the backbone of Apple Music, Apple TV, and the App Store.

I can remember iTunes was the standard by the time the iPod was around. Apple had a big lead. But again, they were too greedy and didn’t invest enough to stay competitive. They even had to buy Beats to keep up with Spotify. Maybe Spotify isn’t that big in the USA, but it wiped out iTunes/apple music in Europe.

iCloud has little to offer to us. A merely 5gb for free if you buy an Apple product 😂😂😂

It doesn’t beat the M3 per core and when it does come close the power consumption is twice as high.

Thank you for allowing me to completely own every statement you made. It gave me great satisfaction. I will now reward

We will see what the future has to hold. But for a first iteration on Qualcomm’s part, they already leapfrog the M3. Not to forget it’s in the interest of Microsoft and google to support Qualcomm. If history is repeating, Apple will switch in the near future to Qualcomm too to stay relevant. Apple has bought the modem division from intel to compete with Qualcomm but till this time it failed to come up with something if it ever will.

That’s an entry level office computer for word processing and spreadsheets. If you are serious about LLMs or generative whatever you need 24-32GB minimum which is too high for entry level computing.

Well… than is Apple doing something wrong by offering only 8gb of soldered ram. Bad for the environment and certainly not future proof. The co-pilot systems work perfectly on 16gb ram.

I hope you enjoyed your ice cream 🍦

 

[9081094]

The M4 Max will probably blow the Tyson out of the water! Remember currently the M4 is just in an iPad!

You don’t know what Qualcomm has to offer by the time the M4 Max will come out. Can’t say Apple is nimble and speedy when it comes to future developments.

Keep in mind the snapdragon x elite isn’t expensive and is backed by Microsoft.

 

[Ethosik]

BS. They can’t legally do it. It’s not their device. Even Apple won’t do it and they already backtracked on scanning for CSAM on iPhones even though they were using a private method.

They certainly can, you can decline the updated TOS and not use the software, but they can certainly do this. The only reason Apple went back from CSAM was due to the backlash. Not because it was illegal to do so. They wouldn't have even attempted it if was illegal to scan local files.

Please point me to a law that states they cannot possibly legally do this.

 

[Ethosik]

An app that can scan all your local image documents for the purpose of training “AI” has to upload that data to a server for processing because local resources are not powerful enough for training.

That is BS, my RTX 4090 has been used to train local AI before.

 

[Nozuka]

Generative "AI" is not AI. It's not intelligent, it's just a next-word or next-pixel guessing algorithm, trained on stolen artists work. It can't do a single useful or helpful thing, and can certainly never be relied on. It's an interesting child's toy, that's it. This mad rush to cram it into absolutely everything is utterly insane, not to mention criminally irresponsible considering the environmental cost.

"It can't do a single useful or helpful thing"

Not the tools fault, if you don't know how to use it.
The results are not perfect, but save me a lot of time.

 

[pappl]

I‘m waiting for the next „Apple Maps“ release moment with AI.

 

[vgmrm]

"Planet of the iApes"

 

[ThomasJL]

Pathetic! Apple is copying Microsoft... again! In 2013, Apple copied Microsoft by using flat design.

Flat design is useless. At least this time around, Apple is copying something from Microsoft that has the potential to be useful. But it is still pathetic that Apple is copying Microsoft.

Under Steve Jobs's leadership, Microsoft copied Apple. But under Tim Cook's so-called "leadership," Apple copies Microsoft.

It's unbelievable that Cook is so clueless, that he fired Apple's most Jobs-like visionary, Scott Forstall, and replaced him with a buffoon like Craig Federighi.