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trip1ex

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2008
2,961
1,515
You said, and I quote "I don't know of a pc game that requires a pc with more than 8gb of RAM." I proceeded to list a game I had a personal experience with, then you replied with "I don't need an argument against it because I don't disagree there is 1 pc game that has a problem with 8gb of RAM."

Seems to me like YOU are the one who isn't understanding here...

It's a fact that there are multiple games requiring more than 8GB now despite your direct quotes indicating that there isn't even one, then that there was one after I gave an example (classic moving the goal posts behavior), and that number will grow larger. So I list a few more and still that's not enough for you despite a couple comments earlier claiming you didn't know of even one game needing more than 8GB, more goal post moving. That is advancement in RAM requirements for games, it's slower change, but that is not a plateau.

To your Steam users comment, there will always be older games to play on steam that require 8GB or less so that proves nothing, but new games are starting to require more and more than half of the people have more than 8GB. Those people with 8GB will be playing old games because they quite literally can't play the new titles I listed. The need for more ram is slowing down, yes. But it hasn't plateaued and it's incorrect to say it has at this point. We are just at that tipping point where 8GB is still OK for some people, but that 16GB will need to be the norm very soon. This is why I've been saying it's a bad idea to buy a new computer with 8GB, because that new computer needs to last a number of years STARTING now. If you had a friend wanting to build a new gaming computer today would you recommend they only get 8GB of RAM? Hell no, they probably want to play those new games...
You're making a strawman argument. I don't disagree that a few pc games (of which most are unoptimized console ports) require more than 8gb of RAM. I merely said I don't know of any in one line of a post with a larger point.

The fact there are a few now doesn't change the point. Which is that RAM needs for the masses are plateauing. And have been plateauing for a long time. And that it isn't even an opinion. IT's a fact. Its obvious no matter whether you desire more RAM for less money that Apple will sell it to you for or not.

The article even points this out. But you seemingly have a bad habit of not reading or understanding what you reply to.

The fact that 45% of STeam users still have only 8gb of RAM merely serves to show how much RAM needs are/have been plateauing even in a use case as demanding as pcgaming. (nevermind in a context of RAM in, and the mass audience for, a base Macbook Air. )
 
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Silverado

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2008
204
191
“The correlation is interesting, but other variables such as market trends and changes in technology can help to account for the plateau in Cook's era. For example…”

What the hell is the point of this article then?!!!

MR - please increase your journalistic stabdards. You know better than this.
 

MikeZTM

macrumors 6502
Nov 4, 2019
383
210
New Jersey, USA
Caveat: M series computers use unified memory. The performance you get from 8 GB of unified memory is closer to what you used to get from 16 GB of standard RAM with Intel Macs.
Wrong and it's in reverse.
Unified memory means your GPU is sharing memory with your CPU.
8GB unified is worse than an 8GB RAM + 2GB VRAM setup.
8GB is 8GB and you can not put more than 8GB data into it. A 16GB intel Mac can run JetBrains IDE with a project that an 8GB Apple silicon Mac will crash.
 

MikeZTM

macrumors 6502
Nov 4, 2019
383
210
New Jersey, USA
or...you know... a more sensible reason: plenty of consumers became fine with the base ram

and the fact that unified memory costs more than standard memory to implement

and you know...combatting sky rocketing prices...

and flash storage became fast enough for swap....

and so on..

but go ahead, write confirmation bias so that we can feel good about hating on Tim Cook, mr David Schaub
The base RAM model is the one they have in stock at Apple Store and resalers.
It's always the most produced model of the machine. Plus, it's the base model that will receive most discounts.

This means the 8GB e-waste is where Apple generate the most profit.
 
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Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
10,339
15,571
Silicon Valley, CA
Apple used to regularly increase the base memory of its Macs up until 2011, the same year Tim Cook was appointed CEO, charts posted on Mastodon by David Schaub show.
That was because of two things, first its was time Apple started to use soldered RAM, second that 8GB was sufficient to run MacOS without much swap caching for most casual users. Back then I made a choice to go with 16 GB soldered RAM because of first its not upgradeable, second the chance of swap caching decreased greatly, also it supposedly lengthen the life of the SSD involved by reducing the amount of read/writes to the SSD. There's another issue back then not to select the smallest SSD also in addition to the smallest RAM config for maximizing the life and usefulness of the Mac.
 
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trip1ex

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2008
2,961
1,515
This means the 8GB e-waste is where Apple generate the most profit.
e-waste is as low as it ever has been. upgrade cycles are as long as they have been. REcyclability is as high as it has been. The devices themselves are as small as they have been.

Go visit the 1980s and you'll come back with a different opinion on today's "e-waste."
 

trip1ex

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2008
2,961
1,515
That was because of two things, first its was time Apple started to use soldered RAM, second that 8GB was sufficient to run MacOS without much swap caching for most casual users. Back then I made a choice to go with 16 GB soldered RAM because of first its not upgradeable, second the chance of swap caching decreased greatly, also it supposedly lengthen the life of the SSD involved by reducing the amount of reed/writes to the SSD. There's another issue back then not to select the smallest SSD also in addition to the smallest RAM config for maximizing the life and usefulness of the Mac.
Upgrade cycles are a lot slower than they used to be. And most here crying about e-waste and life and usefulness of Macs probably don't have 10 yr old Macs if you my get my drift.
 

canadianreader

macrumors 65816
Sep 24, 2014
1,142
3,171
Caveat: M series computers use unified memory. The performance you get from 8 GB of unified memory is closer to what you used to get from 16 GB of standard RAM with Intel Macs.


Unified is Apple lingo for saying the CPU and iGPU share the same amount of memory. M series with 16GB, the cpu will share all the memory with the iGPU when needed whereas with Intel 630 series for example a MacBook with 16gb of ram will only share a max of 1.5gb of vram with the iGPU.

Any M series Mac will beat Intel Mac and it’s because the M chips are more powerful regardless of the ram.
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
10,339
15,571
Silicon Valley, CA
Upgrade cycles are a lot slower than they used to be. And most here crying about e-waste and life and usefulness of Macs probably don't have 10 yr old Macs if you my get my drift.
These AS platform Macs are a joy to use comparably and one could use them for years until they die. They are just in raw performance so much better than a decade ago. So hopefully this perception contributes to much longer ownership and less e-waste. ;)
 
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AlumaMac

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2018
365
695
Timmy should decrease RAM to 4GB base because some Apple fanboy also said 8GB is enough
Personally 4GB still enough too.
My MacBook Air M2 after boot RAM is Full and use SWAP memory.

Apple Cupertino you should listen your customer please decrease RAM to 4GB
or separate new line for fanboy only. Only lightning for charger Two USB-C port with bumblebee keyboard, 4GB of RAM, Dual core CPU without heatsink and fan
I can’t wait for the Fanboy Pro that replaces all physical RAM with virtual memory.
 

ric22

macrumors 68020
Mar 8, 2022
2,038
1,945
That was because of two things, first its was time Apple started to use soldered RAM, second that 8GB was sufficient to run MacOS without much swap caching for most casual users. Back then I made a choice to go with 16 GB soldered RAM because of first its not upgradeable, second the chance of swap caching decreased greatly, also it supposedly lengthen the life of the SSD involved by reducing the amount of reed/writes to the SSD. There's another issue back then not to select the smallest SSD also in addition to the smallest RAM config for maximizing the life and usefulness of the Mac.
Yep. 👍🏼 Soldering RAM and SSD then using very very small quantities produces a machine that will physically wear out faster as well as being outgrown by its users faster. Win for Apple if they earn quicker repeat sales, but a loss for consumers, and a loss for the environment.

Where's the EU with some new legislation when you need them? 😉
 

Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,863
7,153
Spain, Europe
I can’t wait for the Fanboy Pro that replaces all physical RAM with virtual memory.
Well, if I recall correctly, Intel was researching a type of memory so fast that could be used both as SSD and RAM, so no RAM would be needed and, at the same time, RAM was virtually infinite. They released a few models but they never achieved what they initially promised with Optane.
 

DavidSchaub

macrumors 6502
Jun 16, 2016
431
487
Well, if I recall correctly, Intel was researching a type of memory so fast that could be used both as SSD and RAM, so no RAM would be needed and, at the same time, RAM was virtually infinite. They released a few models but they never achieved what they promised with it.
Optane was cool, but given that it was faster & more expensive than SSDs, but slower than RAM, it never really found a niche.
 

purplerainpurplerain

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2022
542
1,031
Where's the EU with some new legislation when you need them? 😉

Before you go simping to the cocaine addicts and money launderers in the EU parliament at least understand that Dell and Samsung are soldering memory too.

 
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