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Apple's remaining surprise....4K at 60Hz.
- Thread starter MacVidCards
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I have an update related to 10.9.3.
I have two Dell UP3214Qs and a new Mac Pro. I haven't been using them due to lack a 60hz support and scaling.
After updating to 10.9.3 beta I tried them again and here is my notes. When I say 3/5 and 4/5 I am referring to the scaling option. It is the same at the retina MBP, with 5 options, the far right being the highest resolution so 3/5 means scaling option 3 of 5.
-With just these two screens plugged into the Mac Pro I can scale at 3/5 or native on both.
-I can scale one at 4/5, but if I tried to put the other at 4/5 it crashes.
-I couldn't scale two at 3/5 with an LED Cinema Display also connected.
My goal is two have them both at 4/5. I lose some vertical pixels in comparison to my old two Dell 30" screen at 3/5 but it is no problem running at 3/5 for a few weeks until they fix it.
Both display are connected via display port and are plugged into different buses. The second monitor was working with the first plugged into Bus 1 and this into Bus 2. It does work with Bus 0 and Bus 1 though.
Hopefully this info helps someone else out.
J
PS: You need to be in DP1.2 for 60hz. The display setting don't deal with numeric resolutions or hertz anymore, but you can tell you are 30hz when not in DP1.2. Which by the way, all scaling worked in my testing not in DP1.2 ... but 30Hz is unusable.
I have two Dell UP3214Qs and a new Mac Pro. I haven't been using them due to lack a 60hz support and scaling.
After updating to 10.9.3 beta I tried them again and here is my notes. When I say 3/5 and 4/5 I am referring to the scaling option. It is the same at the retina MBP, with 5 options, the far right being the highest resolution so 3/5 means scaling option 3 of 5.
-With just these two screens plugged into the Mac Pro I can scale at 3/5 or native on both.
-I can scale one at 4/5, but if I tried to put the other at 4/5 it crashes.
-I couldn't scale two at 3/5 with an LED Cinema Display also connected.
My goal is two have them both at 4/5. I lose some vertical pixels in comparison to my old two Dell 30" screen at 3/5 but it is no problem running at 3/5 for a few weeks until they fix it.
Both display are connected via display port and are plugged into different buses. The second monitor was working with the first plugged into Bus 1 and this into Bus 2. It does work with Bus 0 and Bus 1 though.
Hopefully this info helps someone else out.
J
PS: You need to be in DP1.2 for 60hz. The display setting don't deal with numeric resolutions or hertz anymore, but you can tell you are 30hz when not in DP1.2. Which by the way, all scaling worked in my testing not in DP1.2 ... but 30Hz is unusable.
What graphics cards are you using? Can you use SwitchResX to see the resolutions? Are they HiDPI modes (retina display modes)? Can you use SwitchResX to create other resolutions? Quartz Debug.app can enable HiDPI modes if they are not enabled already. I wonder if 10.9.3 has any changes for NVIDIA graphics.
4K 60Hz and retina scaling looking good with nMP
I don't know if it's been addressed with any confirmation, but I figured I'd chime in since stumbling on this thread. I have the 24" Dell and 32" ASUS 4K displays working just fine at 60Hz with the new Mac Pro (8 core D700 GPUs) and OSX 10.9.3 beta seed. There initially was a sleep/wake issue with the Dell, but it has been fixed with the seed released late last week. So they are working great.
HiDPI Retina scaling support is also present in addition to full resolution 3840x2160 with 1920x1080, 2560x1440 and 3200x1800 equivalent scaled resolutions.
I'm really liking the 2560x1440 equivalent on the 24" Dell. On the 32" it's a toss-up between native resolution and 3200x1800.
All natively supported in the display properties panel. No need for SwitchResX or any other hacks.
I don't know if it's been addressed with any confirmation, but I figured I'd chime in since stumbling on this thread. I have the 24" Dell and 32" ASUS 4K displays working just fine at 60Hz with the new Mac Pro (8 core D700 GPUs) and OSX 10.9.3 beta seed. There initially was a sleep/wake issue with the Dell, but it has been fixed with the seed released late last week. So they are working great.
HiDPI Retina scaling support is also present in addition to full resolution 3840x2160 with 1920x1080, 2560x1440 and 3200x1800 equivalent scaled resolutions.
I'm really liking the 2560x1440 equivalent on the 24" Dell. On the 32" it's a toss-up between native resolution and 3200x1800.
All natively supported in the display properties panel. No need for SwitchResX or any other hacks.
Right, SwitchResX is only needed if you want to create other resolutions or to use its other features. A retina display of 3200 x 1800 requires a frame buffer of 6400 x 3200. I wonder what the largest frame buffer you can create on the D700 is?
An EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in a Mac Pro 2008 running Mac OS X 10.9.2 connected to an Apple 30" Cinema Display (2560 x 1600) will allow frame buffers up to 8192 wide or 4096 tall. Therefore, the largest 16:10 resolution is 6554 x 4096 (6.554 times the area of a 30" display). Antialiasing or multisampling at that resolution causes artifacts though in World of Warcraft. The largest 16:9 resolution (7282 x 4096) causes a kernel panic so you would need to decrease the number of vertical lines to less than the max 4096 in that case. An 8K display would require a frame buffer of 7680 x 4320.
Apple seems to have removed the ability to use larger scaled resolutions for the Radeon HD 5870 in Mavericks. In Mountain Lion, it was able to do up to 4096 wide or 4096 tall. The largest 16:10 resolution allowed was 3584 x 2240. I don't know if other AMD cards are affected or if 10.9.3 will have a fix (the D700s apparently are not affected).
Hi
Thanks for your post.
I am using the DELL up3214q monitor connected to a GTX Titan and cannot get the 60Hz with 10.9.3 latest beta running. Has anyone managed to get it worked with such a configuration?
Any help would be very appreciated
the SAMSUNG U28D590D started to show up in online stores over here in europe and I couldn't resist... here are my findings so far:
EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in MacPro3,1 with U28D590D connected does not boot at all. it's not that I'm not geting a signal. the machine simply refuses to boot.
EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in MacPro5,1 with U28D590D: works out of the box @60Hz but there are NO boot screens.
AFAIK 4K should be possible with Intel HD Graphics 5000, so I tried it with my MacBook Air (13-Inch, Early 2014). didn't work, max. resolution available in system preferences was 2560x1440. maybe 10.9.4 will fix this..?
EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in MacPro3,1 with U28D590D connected does not boot at all. it's not that I'm not geting a signal. the machine simply refuses to boot.
EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in MacPro5,1 with U28D590D: works out of the box @60Hz but there are NO boot screens.
AFAIK 4K should be possible with Intel HD Graphics 5000, so I tried it with my MacBook Air (13-Inch, Early 2014). didn't work, max. resolution available in system preferences was 2560x1440. maybe 10.9.4 will fix this..?
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Try with the EVGA card in slot 2. Try connecting the monitor after the computer has booted.
Are you talking about 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz in Mac OS X 10.9.3 (non beta) using Display Port connection? I would like to see some evidence of that (screen shots, EDID dump, SwitchResX info, ioreg, whatever).
Try using SwitchResX to create a custom timing for 3840 x 2160 @ 30 Hz. Maybe the HDMI port only supports HDMI 1.1 speeds (165 MHz) in which case you would need to use Display Port or try 18 Hz refresh which the display probably won't accept.
the MacPro3,1 did boot if there was a second LCDisplay connected to one of the DVI ports at the same time.
yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about 3840x2160 @60Hz over DP
here you go:
EDID report generated by SwitchResX Version 4.4.0 (Intel - 64-bit) for display U28D590
-----------------------------------------------------
------------------- RAW DATA ------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
-----------------------------------------------------
0 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 4C 2D 80 0B 00 00 00 00
1 | 34 17 01 04 B5 3D 23 78 3A 5F B1 A2 57 4F A2 28
2 | 0F 50 54 BF EF 80 71 4F 81 00 81 C0 81 80 A9 C0
3 | B3 00 95 00 D1 00 4D D0 00 A0 F0 70 3E 80 30 20
4 | 35 00 5F 59 21 00 00 1A 56 5E 00 A0 A0 A0 29 50
5 | 30 20 35 00 5F 59 21 00 00 1A 00 00 00 FD 00 38
6 | 4B 1E 86 36 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 FC
7 | 00 55 32 38 44 35 39 30 0A 20 20 20 20 20 01 9F
-----------------------------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
-----------------------------------------------------
0 | 02 03 0C F0 23 09 07 07 83 01 00 00 02 3A 80 18
1 | 71 38 2D 40 58 2C 45 00 5F 59 21 00 00 1E 00 00
2 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
3 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
4 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
5 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
6 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
7 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 97
-----------------------------------------------------
< 00FFFFFF FFFFFF00 4C2D800B 00000000 34170104 B53D2378 3A5FB1A2 574FA228 0F5054BF EF80714F 810081C0 8180A9C0 B3009500 D1004DD0 00A0F070 3E803020 35005F59 2100001A 565E00A0 A0A02950 30203500 5F592100 001A0000 00FD0038 4B1E8636 000A2020 20202020 000000FC 00553238 44353930 0A202020 2020019F 02030CF0 23090707 83010000 023A8018 71382D40 582C4500 5F592100 001E0000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000097 >
-----------------------------------------------------
{ 0x00, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x00, 0x4C, 0x2D, 0x80, 0x0B, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x34, 0x17, 0x01, 0x04, 0xB5, 0x3D, 0x23, 0x78, 0x3A, 0x5F, 0xB1, 0xA2, 0x57, 0x4F, 0xA2, 0x28, 0x0F, 0x50, 0x54, 0xBF, 0xEF, 0x80, 0x71, 0x4F, 0x81, 0x00, 0x81, 0xC0, 0x81, 0x80, 0xA9, 0xC0, 0xB3, 0x00, 0x95, 0x00, 0xD1, 0x00, 0x4D, 0xD0, 0x00, 0xA0, 0xF0, 0x70, 0x3E, 0x80, 0x30, 0x20, 0x35, 0x00, 0x5F, 0x59, 0x21, 0x00, 0x00, 0x1A, 0x56, 0x5E, 0x00, 0xA0, 0xA0, 0xA0, 0x29, 0x50, 0x30, 0x20, 0x35, 0x00, 0x5F, 0x59, 0x21, 0x00, 0x00, 0x1A, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xFD, 0x00, 0x38, 0x4B, 0x1E, 0x86, 0x36, 0x00, 0x0A, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xFC, 0x00, 0x55, 0x32, 0x38, 0x44, 0x35, 0x39, 0x30, 0x0A, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x01, 0x9F 0x02, 0x03, 0x0C, 0xF0, 0x23, 0x09, 0x07, 0x07, 0x83, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x02, 0x3A, 0x80, 0x18, 0x71, 0x38, 0x2D, 0x40, 0x58, 0x2C, 0x45, 0x00, 0x5F, 0x59, 0x21, 0x00, 0x00, 0x1E, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x97 }
-----------------------------------------------------
Valid EDID block: checksum passed
-----------------------------------------------------
------------------- MAIN EDID BLOCK -----------------
-----------------------------------------------------
EDID Version........1.4
Manufacturer........SAM
Product Code........32779 (800B) (0B80)
Serial Number.......00000000
Manufactured........Week 52 of year 2013
Max H Size..........61 cm
Max V Size..........35 cm
Gamma...............2.20
Display Supported Features:
---------------------------
Power Management: Active off
Display type:
-------------
RGB 4:4:4 & YCrCb 4:4:4 & YCrCb 4:2:2 Color Encoding Formats
Display is non continuous frequency
Default color space is not sRGB standard
Preferred timing mode includes Native Pixel Format
Input signal & sync:
--------------------
Digital Input
10 Bits per Primary Color
DisplayPort is supported
Color info:
-----------
Red x = 0.634 Green x = 0.312 Blue x = 0.158 White x = 0.312
Red y = 0.341 Green y = 0.636 Blue y = 0.062 White y = 0.329
Established Timings:
--------------------
720 x 400 @ 70Hz
640 x 480 @ 60Hz
640 x 480 @ 67Hz
640 x 480 @ 72Hz
640 x 480 @ 75Hz
800 x 600 @ 56Hz
800 x 600 @ 60Hz
800 x 600 @ 72Hz
800 x 600 @ 75Hz
832 x 624 @ 75Hz
1024 x 768 @ 60Hz
1024 x 768 @ 70Hz
1024 x 768 @ 75Hz
1280 x 1024 @ 75Hz
Manufacturer Reserved Timings:
------------------------------
1152 x 870 @ 75Hz
Standard Timing Identification:
-------------------------------
#0: 1152 x 864 @ 75Hz (714F)
#1: 1280 x 800 @ 60Hz (8100)
#2: 1280 x 720 @ 60Hz (81C0)
#3: 1280 x 1024 @ 60Hz (8180)
#4: 1600 x 900 @ 60Hz (A9C0)
#5: 1680 x 1050 @ 60Hz (B300)
#6: 1440 x 900 @ 60Hz (9500)
#7: 1920 x 1200 @ 60Hz (D100)
Monitor Description blocks:
---------------------------
Descriptor #0 - Timing definition:
Mode = 3840 x 2160 @ 59.997Hz
Pixel Clock............. 533.25 MHz Non-Interlaced
Horizontal Vertical
Active.................. 3840 pixels 2160 lines
Front Porch............. 48 pixels 3 lines
Sync Width.............. 32 pixels 5 lines
Back Porch.............. 80 pixels 54 lines
Blanking................ 160 pixels 62 lines
Total................... 4000 pixels 2222 lines
Scan Rate............... 133.312 kHz 59.997 Hz
Image Size.............. 607 mm 345 mm
Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines
Sync: Digital separate with
* Negative vertical polarity
* Positive horizontal polarity
Descriptor #1 - Timing definition:
Mode = 2560 x 1440 @ 59.951Hz
Pixel Clock............. 241.50 MHz Non-Interlaced
Horizontal Vertical
Active.................. 2560 pixels 1440 lines
Front Porch............. 48 pixels 3 lines
Sync Width.............. 32 pixels 5 lines
Back Porch.............. 80 pixels 33 lines
Blanking................ 160 pixels 41 lines
Total................... 2720 pixels 1481 lines
Scan Rate............... 88.787 kHz 59.951 Hz
Image Size.............. 607 mm 345 mm
Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines
Sync: Digital separate with
* Negative vertical polarity
* Positive horizontal polarity
Descriptor #2 - Monitor limits:
Horizontal frequency range.......30-134 kHz
Vertical frequency range.........56-75 Hz
Maximum bandwidth range..........540 MHz
GTF supported
Descriptor #3 - Monitor name:
U28D590
-----------------------------------------------------
------------ EXTENSION EDID BLOCK 1 ---------------
-----------------------------------------------------
CEA-EXT: CEA 861 Series Extension:
----------------------------------
Revision:..............................3
First DTD block at offset..............8
Display Supports:
Underscan on PC modes
Basic audio
YCbCr 4:4:4
YCbCr 4:2:2
Data Block Collection #1 - Type 1
Audio Type Block
Supported format: Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM), on 2 channels
Supported freq: 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz
Supported sample sizes:16 bit, 20 bit, 24 bit
Data Block Collection #2 - Type 4
Speaker allocation data block
Front Left / Front Right
Front Left High / Front Right High
Detailed Timing Blocks - 0 is native
Detailed Timing Block #1 - Timing definition:
Mode = 1920 x 1080 @ 60.000Hz
Pixel Clock............. 148.50 MHz Non-Interlaced
Horizontal Vertical
Active.................. 1920 pixels 1080 lines
Front Porch............. 88 pixels 4 lines
Sync Width.............. 44 pixels 5 lines
Back Porch.............. 148 pixels 36 lines
Blanking................ 280 pixels 45 lines
Total................... 2200 pixels 1125 lines
Scan Rate............... 67.500 kHz 60.000 Hz
Image Size.............. 607 mm 345 mm
Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines
Sync: Digital separate with
* Positive vertical polarity
* Positive horizontal polarity
It looks like it works at 60 Hz because it's not using that crappy MST kludge.
An MST monitor might have mention of a 1920 x 2160 resolution and/or dot clocks no greater than 300 MHz. This monitor doesn't have that; it supports a dot clock of 540 MHz in SST mode. Very nice.
Is that the 28" Samsung? I Saw a review saying it had graphical glitching on the right side of the screen in OSX. Do you have the same?
http://www.tekrevue.com/os-x-10-9-3-4k-displays/
yes, this is the SAMSUNG U28D590D.
no, no glitches with the NVIDIA GTX 680, it seems to happen with ATI cards only.
Since you are running 10.9.3, does that mean you get the new scaling options with this or not? (that's somewhat confusing since I know it's only officially supported via new MacPro or Macbook Pro and TB2 connections)
I'm running my 2010 Mac Pro with a GTX Titan so that monitor and HBR2 is very tempting, but do any of the larger 4K options out there do HBR2 and potentially 60Hz over DP as well that anyone knows?
per default OS X runs with 1920x1080 HiDPI, just like it would on a MacBook Retina. using a utility named "Retina DisplayMenu" I'm able to switch to 3840x2160 non-HiDPI if I want to. System Preferences allows "Best for display" or "Scaled" which offers a variety of resolutions up to 3200x1800 pixels.
AFAIK the SAMSUNG U28D590D is the only available LCDisplay capable of HBR2/SST at the moment.
AFAIK the SAMSUNG U28D590D is the only available LCDisplay capable of HBR2/SST at the moment.
Unless Apple changed the Thunderbolt controller when the upgraded to the Early 2014, I know my Haswell (Mid-2013) MBA has an older Thunderbolt controller that is only capable of Displayport 1,1 thus the best you will get is 2560x1440. That is a hardware limitation and not a software limitation.
I don't think thats nMP or rMBP exclusive, it rather depends on what the Graphics Card is able to deliver.
For example, this LED CD runs max 1920x1200 by default on a cMP via miniDP. Now there is HiDPI 1920x1200 available in 10.9.3, and when selected everything looks a lot sharper – no wonder since it's scaled down from twice the resolution as well
You can use SwitchResX to create any resolution you want up to 8K by 4K but there's a bug in the graphics driver where large resolutions will cause a kernel panic. I've been able to go up to 7136 x 4014 (16:9) on the EVGA Mac card. So, figure out what kind of HiDPI mode you want then create a scaled resolution with horizontal and vertical pixels multiplied by 2. There's a list of the Apple chosen resolutions at http://www.anandtech.com/show/8023/apple-releases-osx-10-9-3-improved-4k-display
I wonder if this requires a fix to the EFI driver of the card or if it's the Mac's EFI that is causing the problem? Should probably bring up this problem in the Netkas forums or to EVGA tech support. I'm guessing enabling HBR2 mode is more complicated than just setting the dot clock to 533 MHz...
Does the BIOS driver of the card show the boot screen when booting Windows or Linux on the Mac?
Do UEFI or BIOS booting PC's behave any better?
Maybe there's a way to force booting the Mac with a more compatible screen resolution (1920 x 1080 or 2560 x 1440). You could try setting the monitor to that resolution before shutting down. Then restart with just that monitor connected.
"rentina" doesn't mean anything, with either spelling.
Do you mean 4K?
Any display is "retina" if you sit far enough away.
Yes apologies I meant to say 4K display. Is it possible to run one on a Mac Pro 3,1 at 60Hz and would OS X recognise such a display as being compatible for HiDPI mode.
You can turn on HiDPI modes for any display. Use the Quartz Debug.app from the graphics developer tools and enable HiDPI modes using the UI Resolution window. The setting remains active after Quartz Debug quits and also across restarts.
Use SwitchResX to create scaled resolutions larger than your display's maximum resolution to create larger HiDPI modes. The ability to create larger scaled resolutions will depend on your graphics hardware and OS version (I know 10.9.1 removed the ability for Radeon 5870 - not sure if Apple restored the ability yet).
I can't find any solid evidence that MST displays work on anything but the latest MacPro and MacBook Pro 15" with Retina Display. I think some people said it worked during the 10.9.3 beta on an AMD 7950 but I don't know about current versions. They should work in 30 Hz SST mode at least.
It looks like the SAMSUNG U28D590D is the only 4K 60Hz SST display so that's what I would use on the MacPro3,1 if you can get over the booting problem.