Apple's remaining surprise....4K at 60Hz.

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by MacVidCards, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. reikohh macrumors newbie

    reikohh

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    #76
    I did 3 days ago, 10.9.2 with MP 5.1 GTX680 attached by dp and still only 30Hz
     
  2. AzN1337c0d3r macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    #77
    Reading comprehension fail.

     
  3. penningtonj macrumors member

    penningtonj

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    #78
    I have an update related to 10.9.3.

    I have two Dell UP3214Qs and a new Mac Pro. I haven't been using them due to lack a 60hz support and scaling.

    After updating to 10.9.3 beta I tried them again and here is my notes. When I say 3/5 and 4/5 I am referring to the scaling option. It is the same at the retina MBP, with 5 options, the far right being the highest resolution so 3/5 means scaling option 3 of 5.

    -With just these two screens plugged into the Mac Pro I can scale at 3/5 or native on both.
    -I can scale one at 4/5, but if I tried to put the other at 4/5 it crashes.
    -I couldn't scale two at 3/5 with an LED Cinema Display also connected.

    My goal is two have them both at 4/5. I lose some vertical pixels in comparison to my old two Dell 30" screen at 3/5 but it is no problem running at 3/5 for a few weeks until they fix it.

    Both display are connected via display port and are plugged into different buses. The second monitor was working with the first plugged into Bus 1 and this into Bus 2. It does work with Bus 0 and Bus 1 though.

    Hopefully this info helps someone else out.

    J

    PS: You need to be in DP1.2 for 60hz. The display setting don't deal with numeric resolutions or hertz anymore, but you can tell you are 30hz when not in DP1.2. Which by the way, all scaling worked in my testing not in DP1.2 ... but 30Hz is unusable.
     
  4. joevt macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    #79
    What graphics cards are you using? Can you use SwitchResX to see the resolutions? Are they HiDPI modes (retina display modes)? Can you use SwitchResX to create other resolutions? Quartz Debug.app can enable HiDPI modes if they are not enabled already. I wonder if 10.9.3 has any changes for NVIDIA graphics.
     
  5. AppliedVisual macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    #80
    4K 60Hz and retina scaling looking good with nMP

    I don't know if it's been addressed with any confirmation, but I figured I'd chime in since stumbling on this thread. I have the 24" Dell and 32" ASUS 4K displays working just fine at 60Hz with the new Mac Pro (8 core D700 GPUs) and OSX 10.9.3 beta seed. There initially was a sleep/wake issue with the Dell, but it has been fixed with the seed released late last week. So they are working great.

    HiDPI Retina scaling support is also present in addition to full resolution 3840x2160 with 1920x1080, 2560x1440 and 3200x1800 equivalent scaled resolutions.

    I'm really liking the 2560x1440 equivalent on the 24" Dell. On the 32" it's a toss-up between native resolution and 3200x1800.

    All natively supported in the display properties panel. No need for SwitchResX or any other hacks.
     
  6. joevt macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    #81
    Right, SwitchResX is only needed if you want to create other resolutions or to use its other features. A retina display of 3200 x 1800 requires a frame buffer of 6400 x 3200. I wonder what the largest frame buffer you can create on the D700 is?

    An EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in a Mac Pro 2008 running Mac OS X 10.9.2 connected to an Apple 30" Cinema Display (2560 x 1600) will allow frame buffers up to 8192 wide or 4096 tall. Therefore, the largest 16:10 resolution is 6554 x 4096 (6.554 times the area of a 30" display). Antialiasing or multisampling at that resolution causes artifacts though in World of Warcraft. The largest 16:9 resolution (7282 x 4096) causes a kernel panic so you would need to decrease the number of vertical lines to less than the max 4096 in that case. An 8K display would require a frame buffer of 7680 x 4320.

    Apple seems to have removed the ability to use larger scaled resolutions for the Radeon HD 5870 in Mavericks. In Mountain Lion, it was able to do up to 4096 wide or 4096 tall. The largest 16:10 resolution allowed was 3584 x 2240. I don't know if other AMD cards are affected or if 10.9.3 will have a fix (the D700s apparently are not affected).
     
  7. ailefroide macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    #82
    Hi

    Thanks for your post.
    I am using the DELL up3214q monitor connected to a GTX Titan and cannot get the 60Hz with 10.9.3 latest beta running. Has anyone managed to get it worked with such a configuration?

    Any help would be very appreciated :)
     
  8. mikeboss, Jun 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014

    mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    switzerland
    #83
    the SAMSUNG U28D590D started to show up in online stores over here in europe and I couldn't resist... here are my findings so far:

    EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in MacPro3,1 with U28D590D connected does not boot at all. it's not that I'm not geting a signal. the machine simply refuses to boot.

    EVGA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition in MacPro5,1 with U28D590D: works out of the box @60Hz but there are NO boot screens.

    AFAIK 4K should be possible with Intel HD Graphics 5000, so I tried it with my MacBook Air (13-Inch, Early 2014). didn't work, max. resolution available in system preferences was 2560x1440. maybe 10.9.4 will fix this..?
     
  9. joevt macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    #84
    Try with the EVGA card in slot 2. Try connecting the monitor after the computer has booted.

    Are you talking about 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz in Mac OS X 10.9.3 (non beta) using Display Port connection? I would like to see some evidence of that (screen shots, EDID dump, SwitchResX info, ioreg, whatever).

    Try using SwitchResX to create a custom timing for 3840 x 2160 @ 30 Hz. Maybe the HDMI port only supports HDMI 1.1 speeds (165 MHz) in which case you would need to use Display Port or try 18 Hz refresh which the display probably won't accept.
     
  10. mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    switzerland
    #85
    the MacPro3,1 did boot if there was a second LCDisplay connected to one of the DVI ports at the same time.

    yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about 3840x2160 @60Hz over DP :cool:

    here you go:

    EDID report generated by SwitchResX Version 4.4.0 (Intel - 64-bit) for display U28D590


    -----------------------------------------------------
    ------------------- RAW DATA ------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
    -----------------------------------------------------
    0 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 4C 2D 80 0B 00 00 00 00
    1 | 34 17 01 04 B5 3D 23 78 3A 5F B1 A2 57 4F A2 28
    2 | 0F 50 54 BF EF 80 71 4F 81 00 81 C0 81 80 A9 C0
    3 | B3 00 95 00 D1 00 4D D0 00 A0 F0 70 3E 80 30 20
    4 | 35 00 5F 59 21 00 00 1A 56 5E 00 A0 A0 A0 29 50
    5 | 30 20 35 00 5F 59 21 00 00 1A 00 00 00 FD 00 38
    6 | 4B 1E 86 36 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 FC
    7 | 00 55 32 38 44 35 39 30 0A 20 20 20 20 20 01 9F

    -----------------------------------------------------
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
    -----------------------------------------------------
    0 | 02 03 0C F0 23 09 07 07 83 01 00 00 02 3A 80 18
    1 | 71 38 2D 40 58 2C 45 00 5F 59 21 00 00 1E 00 00
    2 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    3 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    4 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    5 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    6 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    7 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 97

    -----------------------------------------------------
    < 00FFFFFF FFFFFF00 4C2D800B 00000000 34170104 B53D2378 3A5FB1A2 574FA228 0F5054BF EF80714F 810081C0 8180A9C0 B3009500 D1004DD0 00A0F070 3E803020 35005F59 2100001A 565E00A0 A0A02950 30203500 5F592100 001A0000 00FD0038 4B1E8636 000A2020 20202020 000000FC 00553238 44353930 0A202020 2020019F 02030CF0 23090707 83010000 023A8018 71382D40 582C4500 5F592100 001E0000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000097 >

    -----------------------------------------------------
    { 0x00, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x00, 0x4C, 0x2D, 0x80, 0x0B, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x34, 0x17, 0x01, 0x04, 0xB5, 0x3D, 0x23, 0x78, 0x3A, 0x5F, 0xB1, 0xA2, 0x57, 0x4F, 0xA2, 0x28, 0x0F, 0x50, 0x54, 0xBF, 0xEF, 0x80, 0x71, 0x4F, 0x81, 0x00, 0x81, 0xC0, 0x81, 0x80, 0xA9, 0xC0, 0xB3, 0x00, 0x95, 0x00, 0xD1, 0x00, 0x4D, 0xD0, 0x00, 0xA0, 0xF0, 0x70, 0x3E, 0x80, 0x30, 0x20, 0x35, 0x00, 0x5F, 0x59, 0x21, 0x00, 0x00, 0x1A, 0x56, 0x5E, 0x00, 0xA0, 0xA0, 0xA0, 0x29, 0x50, 0x30, 0x20, 0x35, 0x00, 0x5F, 0x59, 0x21, 0x00, 0x00, 0x1A, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xFD, 0x00, 0x38, 0x4B, 0x1E, 0x86, 0x36, 0x00, 0x0A, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xFC, 0x00, 0x55, 0x32, 0x38, 0x44, 0x35, 0x39, 0x30, 0x0A, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x20, 0x01, 0x9F 0x02, 0x03, 0x0C, 0xF0, 0x23, 0x09, 0x07, 0x07, 0x83, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x02, 0x3A, 0x80, 0x18, 0x71, 0x38, 0x2D, 0x40, 0x58, 0x2C, 0x45, 0x00, 0x5F, 0x59, 0x21, 0x00, 0x00, 0x1E, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x97 }

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Valid EDID block: checksum passed

    -----------------------------------------------------
    ------------------- MAIN EDID BLOCK -----------------
    -----------------------------------------------------

    EDID Version........1.4
    Manufacturer........SAM
    Product Code........32779 (800B) (0B80)
    Serial Number.......00000000

    Manufactured........Week 52 of year 2013
    Max H Size..........61 cm
    Max V Size..........35 cm
    Gamma...............2.20

    Display Supported Features:
    ---------------------------
    Power Management: Active off


    Display type:
    -------------
    RGB 4:4:4 & YCrCb 4:4:4 & YCrCb 4:2:2 Color Encoding Formats
    Display is non continuous frequency
    Default color space is not sRGB standard
    Preferred timing mode includes Native Pixel Format


    Input signal & sync:
    --------------------
    Digital Input
    10 Bits per Primary Color
    DisplayPort is supported


    Color info:
    -----------
    Red x = 0.634 Green x = 0.312 Blue x = 0.158 White x = 0.312
    Red y = 0.341 Green y = 0.636 Blue y = 0.062 White y = 0.329

    Established Timings:
    --------------------
    720 x 400 @ 70Hz
    640 x 480 @ 60Hz
    640 x 480 @ 67Hz
    640 x 480 @ 72Hz
    640 x 480 @ 75Hz
    800 x 600 @ 56Hz
    800 x 600 @ 60Hz
    800 x 600 @ 72Hz
    800 x 600 @ 75Hz
    832 x 624 @ 75Hz
    1024 x 768 @ 60Hz
    1024 x 768 @ 70Hz
    1024 x 768 @ 75Hz
    1280 x 1024 @ 75Hz

    Manufacturer Reserved Timings:
    ------------------------------
    1152 x 870 @ 75Hz

    Standard Timing Identification:
    -------------------------------
    #0: 1152 x 864 @ 75Hz (714F)
    #1: 1280 x 800 @ 60Hz (8100)
    #2: 1280 x 720 @ 60Hz (81C0)
    #3: 1280 x 1024 @ 60Hz (8180)
    #4: 1600 x 900 @ 60Hz (A9C0)
    #5: 1680 x 1050 @ 60Hz (B300)
    #6: 1440 x 900 @ 60Hz (9500)
    #7: 1920 x 1200 @ 60Hz (D100)

    Monitor Description blocks:
    ---------------------------
    Descriptor #0 - Timing definition:
    Mode = 3840 x 2160 @ 59.997Hz
    Pixel Clock............. 533.25 MHz Non-Interlaced

    Horizontal Vertical
    Active.................. 3840 pixels 2160 lines
    Front Porch............. 48 pixels 3 lines
    Sync Width.............. 32 pixels 5 lines
    Back Porch.............. 80 pixels 54 lines
    Blanking................ 160 pixels 62 lines
    Total................... 4000 pixels 2222 lines
    Scan Rate............... 133.312 kHz 59.997 Hz

    Image Size.............. 607 mm 345 mm
    Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines

    Sync: Digital separate with
    * Negative vertical polarity
    * Positive horizontal polarity

    Descriptor #1 - Timing definition:
    Mode = 2560 x 1440 @ 59.951Hz
    Pixel Clock............. 241.50 MHz Non-Interlaced

    Horizontal Vertical
    Active.................. 2560 pixels 1440 lines
    Front Porch............. 48 pixels 3 lines
    Sync Width.............. 32 pixels 5 lines
    Back Porch.............. 80 pixels 33 lines
    Blanking................ 160 pixels 41 lines
    Total................... 2720 pixels 1481 lines
    Scan Rate............... 88.787 kHz 59.951 Hz

    Image Size.............. 607 mm 345 mm
    Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines

    Sync: Digital separate with
    * Negative vertical polarity
    * Positive horizontal polarity

    Descriptor #2 - Monitor limits:
    Horizontal frequency range.......30-134 kHz
    Vertical frequency range.........56-75 Hz
    Maximum bandwidth range..........540 MHz
    GTF supported

    Descriptor #3 - Monitor name:
    U28D590


    -----------------------------------------------------
    ------------ EXTENSION EDID BLOCK 1 ---------------
    -----------------------------------------------------

    CEA-EXT: CEA 861 Series Extension:
    ----------------------------------
    Revision:..............................3
    First DTD block at offset..............8
    Display Supports:
    Underscan on PC modes
    Basic audio
    YCbCr 4:4:4
    YCbCr 4:2:2

    Data Block Collection #1 - Type 1
    Audio Type Block
    Supported format: Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM), on 2 channels
    Supported freq: 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz
    Supported sample sizes:16 bit, 20 bit, 24 bit

    Data Block Collection #2 - Type 4
    Speaker allocation data block
    Front Left / Front Right
    Front Left High / Front Right High

    Detailed Timing Blocks - 0 is native

    Detailed Timing Block #1 - Timing definition:
    Mode = 1920 x 1080 @ 60.000Hz
    Pixel Clock............. 148.50 MHz Non-Interlaced

    Horizontal Vertical
    Active.................. 1920 pixels 1080 lines
    Front Porch............. 88 pixels 4 lines
    Sync Width.............. 44 pixels 5 lines
    Back Porch.............. 148 pixels 36 lines
    Blanking................ 280 pixels 45 lines
    Total................... 2200 pixels 1125 lines
    Scan Rate............... 67.500 kHz 60.000 Hz

    Image Size.............. 607 mm 345 mm
    Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines

    Sync: Digital separate with
    * Positive vertical polarity
    * Positive horizontal polarity
     
  11. mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    switzerland
  12. joevt macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    #87
    It looks like it works at 60 Hz because it's not using that crappy MST kludge.

    An MST monitor might have mention of a 1920 x 2160 resolution and/or dot clocks no greater than 300 MHz. This monitor doesn't have that; it supports a dot clock of 540 MHz in SST mode. Very nice.
     
  13. mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    switzerland
    #88
    yes, this is the HBR2 mode (High Bit Rate 2) with 5.4 Gb/s via DP 1.2
     
  14. N19h7m4r3 macrumors 65816

    N19h7m4r3

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    #89
    Is that the 28" Samsung? I Saw a review saying it had graphical glitching on the right side of the screen in OSX. Do you have the same?

    http://www.tekrevue.com/os-x-10-9-3-4k-displays/
     
  15. mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    switzerland
    #90
    yes, this is the SAMSUNG U28D590D.

    no, no glitches with the NVIDIA GTX 680, it seems to happen with ATI cards only.
     
  16. matthewtoney macrumors regular

    matthewtoney

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    #91
    Since you are running 10.9.3, does that mean you get the new scaling options with this or not? (that's somewhat confusing since I know it's only officially supported via new MacPro or Macbook Pro and TB2 connections)

    I'm running my 2010 Mac Pro with a GTX Titan so that monitor and HBR2 is very tempting, but do any of the larger 4K options out there do HBR2 and potentially 60Hz over DP as well that anyone knows?
     
  17. mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    switzerland
    #92
    per default OS X runs with 1920x1080 HiDPI, just like it would on a MacBook Retina. using a utility named "Retina DisplayMenu" I'm able to switch to 3840x2160 non-HiDPI if I want to. System Preferences allows "Best for display" or "Scaled" which offers a variety of resolutions up to 3200x1800 pixels.

    AFAIK the SAMSUNG U28D590D is the only available LCDisplay capable of HBR2/SST at the moment.
     
  18. paulrbeers macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #93
    Unless Apple changed the Thunderbolt controller when the upgraded to the Early 2014, I know my Haswell (Mid-2013) MBA has an older Thunderbolt controller that is only capable of Displayport 1,1 thus the best you will get is 2560x1440. That is a hardware limitation and not a software limitation.
     
  19. Fangio macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    #94
    I don't think thats nMP or rMBP exclusive, it rather depends on what the Graphics Card is able to deliver.

    For example, this LED CD runs max 1920x1200 by default on a cMP via miniDP. Now there is HiDPI 1920x1200 available in 10.9.3, and when selected everything looks a lot sharper – no wonder since it's scaled down from twice the resolution as well


    [​IMG]
     
  20. joevt macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    #95
    You can use SwitchResX to create any resolution you want up to 8K by 4K but there's a bug in the graphics driver where large resolutions will cause a kernel panic. I've been able to go up to 7136 x 4014 (16:9) on the EVGA Mac card. So, figure out what kind of HiDPI mode you want then create a scaled resolution with horizontal and vertical pixels multiplied by 2. There's a list of the Apple chosen resolutions at http://www.anandtech.com/show/8023/apple-releases-osx-10-9-3-improved-4k-display

    I wonder if this requires a fix to the EFI driver of the card or if it's the Mac's EFI that is causing the problem? Should probably bring up this problem in the Netkas forums or to EVGA tech support. I'm guessing enabling HBR2 mode is more complicated than just setting the dot clock to 533 MHz...

    Does the BIOS driver of the card show the boot screen when booting Windows or Linux on the Mac?

    Do UEFI or BIOS booting PC's behave any better?

    Maybe there's a way to force booting the Mac with a more compatible screen resolution (1920 x 1080 or 2560 x 1440). You could try setting the monitor to that resolution before shutting down. Then restart with just that monitor connected.
     
  21. Saad-M macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    #96
    Just for clarification is it possible to use a third party "rentina" type display on a Mac Pro 3,1 at 60Hz? After reading some of the posts above I seem to get indication that it isn't possible.

    Many Thanks,

    Saad.
     
  22. MacVidCards thread starter Suspended

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    #97
    "rentina" doesn't mean anything, with either spelling.

    Do you mean 4K?

    Any display is "retina" if you sit far enough away.
     
  23. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Peninsula
    #98
    ...and no display is "retina" if you sit too close ;)
     
  24. Saad-M macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    #99
    Yes apologies I meant to say 4K display. Is it possible to run one on a Mac Pro 3,1 at 60Hz and would OS X recognise such a display as being compatible for HiDPI mode.
     
  25. joevt macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    #100
    You can turn on HiDPI modes for any display. Use the Quartz Debug.app from the graphics developer tools and enable HiDPI modes using the UI Resolution window. The setting remains active after Quartz Debug quits and also across restarts.

    Use SwitchResX to create scaled resolutions larger than your display's maximum resolution to create larger HiDPI modes. The ability to create larger scaled resolutions will depend on your graphics hardware and OS version (I know 10.9.1 removed the ability for Radeon 5870 - not sure if Apple restored the ability yet).

    I can't find any solid evidence that MST displays work on anything but the latest MacPro and MacBook Pro 15" with Retina Display. I think some people said it worked during the 10.9.3 beta on an AMD 7950 but I don't know about current versions. They should work in 30 Hz SST mode at least.

    It looks like the SAMSUNG U28D590D is the only 4K 60Hz SST display so that's what I would use on the MacPro3,1 if you can get over the booting problem.
     

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