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champ01
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Riiiight...
Do you work in dreamland by any change?
We're all slaves to this BS economy.
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Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized
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Riiiight...
Do you work in dreamland by any change?
We're all slaves to this BS economy.
Actually, trying to sell the "new" Mac Pro must be a strenuous labor and require excellent skills!
I agree... i seriously wonder if people here are serious or just trolls. "Just leave"? When the economy is as bad as it is... yeah sure. Only stupid people leaves their jobs just like that.
Why do people here even complain about what other people earns, i seriously do not understand it. If the Apple Store employees feels that they need a bit more money - then that's their call. Not anybody else.
They should be paid what the market average is, nothing more. Apple stores do well be of Apple products and Apple's marketing, not some teenager in a blue shirt. Thousands apply to work at Apple because they think "it's cool" and they will get a discount. They hire based on personality as much as anything. Apple has very highly skilled software and hardware engineers making around 100k, I would be rather pissed if some retail worker is making half my salary "just because". This is a slippery slope for any retailer to follow as one or two years of success can cost you a fortune in salaries and wages on your general labor force.
I've never walked into an Apple store because of it's employee's, I walk in because the Apple products are on display to check out before I buy. They have zero affect on if I buy or not. Granted yes, many non tech people listen to them and they may help them into a new laptop, but that's hardly a tough sell. Apple sells their own product and the retail store just makes it handy. Put in some self checkout kiosks with some iPads on it and the store will still blow through product.
I've never walked into an Apple store because of it's employee's, I walk in because the Apple products are on display to check out before I buy. They have zero affect on if I buy or not. Granted yes, many non tech people listen to them and they may help them into a new laptop, but that's hardly a tough sell. Apple sells their own product and the retail store just makes it handy. Put in some self checkout kiosks with some iPads on it and the store will still blow through product.
Well written.. I completely agree. Whether or not you agree with increasing pay for Apple retail employees or with the NYT's perspective, I find it misanthropic for folks on this thread to be bashing retail jobs and the people that fill them. Regardless of how you feel about compensation for Apple store employees, you should recognize that there's a difference in selling burgers at McDonalds or selling clothes at JCPenney vs. selling products at Apple. Many of you who are criticizing Apple store employees (by either questioning how hard it really is or the value add that Apple store employees provide) are forgetting that one perk of being an Apple owner IS the in-store experience that you get.
As the poster above noted, many people enter these stores without knowing what they want or also needing guidance on technology questions/decisions. Think about this: How many times has a friend or family member asked you about an Apple product? Probably more than you can count. Now think about them walking into an Apple store vs. a big-box retailer and asking the same questions there...where do you think they'll get the best service and information? A great customer experience also builds brand loyalty and leads to more sales.
Now let's take the example of an Apple-literate buyer. I've walked in to an Apple store and have known exactly what I wanted to buy, but I still appreciate the store's employees in helping me quickly get my product so I can leave the store with as little hassle as possible (note: this applies to big-ticket items of course...not accessories where I can check-out the item myself). So even in this case, where I need minimal help, I can still appreciate what the employees there have done for me.
Again, regardless of your position on "fair compensation", you shouldn't marginalize the Apple store employees. (Final note: Yes, I'm well aware that these employees are only selling electronics...they are not saving lives, they are not performing intense manual labor, and they work in climate-controlled conditions with fairly decent pay. I get that and I'm not arguing that they are underpaid or overpaid either way).
Read his post he compared retail workers to monkeys.
I have a well paying job, hence why I can buy lots of macs, I am reasonably happy with that too.
I never said that you can't earn and be happy, just people have to understand that other people can be perfectly happy in life on a modest income and life situation. Not everyone has the skills to be a roaring success in everything that they do.
I just don't think anyone should be looking down there nose at retail staff, which is what the main tone of this thread is, its pretty sad.
Trust me, you have to be a regular Sherlock Holmes to find a Mac Pro in the Apple Store. It's usually hidden in a corner, and used more as a One on One Machine than a sales demo. It takes talent to find it.
This argument that the retail employees "bring in" any sales at all is complete garbage. I've gone the the apple store, asked questions of the employees, got erroneous answers, read to find the correct answer, and bought the product nevertheless.
That being said, I sure like the way the Apple store employes conduct themselves as compared with the Microsoft Store employees. I walked into the MS store the other day and just got attacked by every employee - really high pressure. And they really wanted to do a competition with me and my iPhone to prove that their MS phone was better. Basically they take some obscure feature the MS phone has that they know the iPhone doesn't have (without downloading the appropriate app), and prove to you that their phone is better because they can do something (they have rehearsed) faster than you can.
That being said, I sure like the way the Apple store employes conduct themselves as compared with the Microsoft Store employees. I walked into the MS store the other day and just got attacked by every employee - really high pressure. And they really wanted to do a competition with me and my iPhone to prove that their MS phone was better. Basically they take some obscure feature the MS phone has that they know the iPhone doesn't have (without downloading the appropriate app), and prove to you that their phone is better because they can do something (they have rehearsed) faster than you can.
The bit in bold really does it for me, when I went to buy my ipad I walked in, picked one up, told the guy i wanted that one, bought it and left.
When I went to PC world to look at a macbook, I chose the one I wanted, the guy tried to sell me office, he tried to sell me a 36 month payment plan, he then tried to sell me insurance, i told him that i was an IT technician and I can fix most stuff myself, he then looked down his nose at me, asked me what id do if the screen fell off and tried to sell me insurance again. At that point I left PC world and have never been back.
1. I've worked in retail (computer for 3yrs) ... $12/hr is not bad
2. I have been working in corporate america for the last 12yrs ... the only folks that are taking home more than 5% of what they bring in are folks in the finance industry.
3. If you have a clue you know that pay is not the only important thing about a job. Benefits (Healthcare, 401(k)) and Perks (discounts, stock purchases, training) play a big part.
I believe we saw this same behavior once in the US, the car industry. workers wanted more money to cover their second home and their boats (considered a decent middle class life) and all of a sudden Ford and the like couldn't make enough money to stay solvent, then we as tax payers had to bail them out.
Let's look at how much Apple actually spends per employee (not just wages) and compare that to Walmart.
Another article for NTY to attempt to stay relavent.
2. I have been working in corporate america for the last 12yrs ... the only folks that are taking home more than 5% of what they bring in are folks in the finance industry.
3. If you have a clue you know that pay is not the only important thing about a job. Benefits (Healthcare, 401(k)) and Perks (discounts, stock purchases, training) play a big part.
I believe we saw this same behavior once in the US, the car industry. workers wanted more money to cover their second home and their boats (considered a decent middle class life) and all of a sudden Ford and the like couldn't make enough money to stay solvent, then we as tax payers had to bail them out.
Let's look at how much Apple actually spends per employee (not just wages) and compare that to Walmart.
Another article for NTY to attempt to stay relavent.
$12 an hour is NOT bad for retail. I worked as a Certified Nursing Assistant, made $12 an hour, and that was HARD WORK. I would've killed to do retail instead.
Agreed. If Apple employees are worth more for making the company $500,000 a year,
Doctors are worth countless dollars
Engineers are worth countless dollars
Lawyers are worth countless dollars
Electricians are worth a huge amount of money
Would someone take a second and explain to me
1) How would this system not send more money to the top?
2) Why this way doesn't work
1. Retailing is not "hard" (in terms of required skills). I could do it right now with basically no training.
2. This article says that Apple pays its employees more than average for retail..... but they make more money, so the employees should get higher pays. Translated: Apple is already paying its employees more than usual, but they're such a big company that people have to target them to get attention.
2. This article says that Apple pays its employees more than average for retail..... but they make more money, so the employees should get higher pays. Translated: Apple is already paying its employees more than usual, but they're such a big company that people have to target them to get attention.
It's only illegal if you choose to hire all men. There aren't many masculinists (real word) out there, possibly due to the clumsiness of the word.
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I would say insanity. I could name plenty of non-greedy evil people.
EXACTLY! And they are not SALARIED employees...they are HOURLY...my guess is a VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE of Apple Retail employees are probably working 20-30 hours a week while in high school or college. The remaining percentage are store managers that are out of school and work 40+ hours a week...and yes, those managers are likely paid quite a bit more and likely have health coverage, etc. It's probably not glamorous but dude, IT'S RETAIL!!!!
I wouldn't want to be 33 years old earning minimum wage...so if I were 33, I'd get my butt out of retail.
The problem with this reporting/article is that it promotes some kind of COMMUNISM in that all the wealth should be equally shared among all employees. Not so.
Besides, working at an Apple store is simple compared to most other retailers: all you sell is 4 products (iPhone, iPad, iPod, and Mac), there are no shelves to stock, no mass cleanup/rearranging every night (like clothing stores or music stores), the store is quite small so not a lot of walking, and it's actually FUN to be in an exciting store that has cool stuff. There are a LOT of Retail employees in the USA that hate their job or at least dislike the daily in/out of their Retail job. What can an Apple employee possibly complain about?! Seriously.
If you don't like the Retail job market, do something else. Get a salary job...or start your own business...or work for a small business earning much more in an hourly wage...or whatever else you want to do.
I have to admit that I didn't get the point of this article, other than to make things sound bad.
1) Of course there are few opportunities for promotion. It's retail! The number of floor employees is always going to be a lot higher than the number of managers, and there aren't going to be that many jobs beyond the level of manager. That lack of advancement should be expected when you go into a retail job. What proportion of employees actually enter retail as a lifelong career anyway?
2) Apple already pays better than most retailers and offers benefits, a point the article makes, though it makes it in such a way as to make it sound like a bad thing.
3) I thought the legitimate point of the article is working conditions. The most convenient Apple stores for me to reach are Eaton Centre and Yorkdale in Toronto, both of which always seem to be incredibly busy and don't seem to be large enough for the volume of traffic. I have to admit I freak at crowds, so I try to be very strategic when I go in. I do think that having that level of noise and crowding all day long would be very stressful; employee burn-out is probably a serious issue. Even so, I have never found the people working in those stores to be less than extremely helpful and calm in manner. I have also been in the Apple store in Hamilton on a Saturday morning and found almost no one in the store; I expect that the environment varies considerably depending upon where the store is.
1) Of course there are few opportunities for promotion. It's retail! The number of floor employees is always going to be a lot higher than the number of managers, and there aren't going to be that many jobs beyond the level of manager. That lack of advancement should be expected when you go into a retail job. What proportion of employees actually enter retail as a lifelong career anyway?
2) Apple already pays better than most retailers and offers benefits, a point the article makes, though it makes it in such a way as to make it sound like a bad thing.
3) I thought the legitimate point of the article is working conditions. The most convenient Apple stores for me to reach are Eaton Centre and Yorkdale in Toronto, both of which always seem to be incredibly busy and don't seem to be large enough for the volume of traffic. I have to admit I freak at crowds, so I try to be very strategic when I go in. I do think that having that level of noise and crowding all day long would be very stressful; employee burn-out is probably a serious issue. Even so, I have never found the people working in those stores to be less than extremely helpful and calm in manner. I have also been in the Apple store in Hamilton on a Saturday morning and found almost no one in the store; I expect that the environment varies considerably depending upon where the store is.
What is it with this black and white notion of 'no one gets rich'?!? How about making a living wage?
Wait a second, so if I just go and get a job at an Apple Retail Store right now, this guy thinks I should be rewarded for the company's success. If that was the case, nobody would want to work for small companies.
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You can definitely live off of that wage, but not in luxury. If you want a good wage, you have to have a few skills.
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You can definitely live off of that wage, but not in luxury. If you want a good wage, you have to have a few skills.
nice!
25K? Damn. That's almost what I make! And I have two professional degrees - one that would allow me to work for Apple designing products (were I awesome enough for that)... Maybe I should just move to K-town and work at the apple store... The insurance is probably better too come to think of it.
Maybe because they were selling $0.99 Chinese sunglasses for $20 all day? Why didn't you go work at a Kiosk?
25K? Damn. That's almost what I make! And I have two professional degrees - one that would allow me to work for Apple designing products (were I awesome enough for that)... Maybe I should just move to K-town and work at the apple store... The insurance is probably better too come to think of it.
Maybe because they were selling $0.99 Chinese sunglasses for $20 all day? Why didn't you go work at a Kiosk?
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If Apple were to have some sort of commision based pay as some here suggest, it would destroy part of what make the Apple Store sales model so sucessful. Apple Stores are a place where people can go and hang out, check out products, and get answers from employees if they have them. It is about creating an experience and letting the products sell themselves. The second you add commision to the equation, the Apple Store becomes just another high pressure electronics store with employees hovering over potential customers like buzzards. Whether or not their hourly wage should be increased is another debate, but commisions aren't the answer.