No one is talking about bankruptcy. Read this link for what's going on. Apple is not doomed. But they have peaked.
Apple: A Few Signs Of Trouble http://seekingalpha.com/article/1607762?source=ansh $AAPL
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Apple's Share of Tablet Market Sinks on Lack of Product Launches in Early 2013
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No one is talking about bankruptcy. Read this link for what's going on. Apple is not doomed. But they have peaked.
Apple: A Few Signs Of Trouble http://seekingalpha.com/article/1607762?source=ansh $AAPL
These are always apples to oranges comparisons. You're pitting a hardware company against the likes of Google and Amazon that rely of the back end for revenue.
They've peaked at the right time then. Outselling most of their competitors combined, out-revenuing most of their competitors combined. Out-profitting most of their competitors combined. Not a bad place to "peak".
Of course all this is moot because if you're saying the only place for them to go is down then you're one of the misinformed I alluded to in my previous post. Believe me they have not peaked.
Except that it is.
1) Several companies are interested in the market
2) Apple is losing market share while competing companies are growing market share in a market that's growing.
You may have posted many times but If you're going to attempt to debunk what others say, the points you make should at least be relevant.
Thanks for playing.
I've provided facts and trends that show sales growth is slowing, margins are eroding, gross profits are declining, but I'm misinformed?
Tell me what you see that I don't?
I will allow that Apple has an opportunity of a lifetime by moving cable and satellite TV to Apple TV over the Internet. But I think that window is quickly closing as others have staked claim in that space. This time, Apple is not alone in the market.
By misinformed I was referring to your statement that Apple has peaked. I'll ask again, do you really believe that the only place for them to go is down? That never again will they attempt to disrupt a market with a new type of product? That they'll never again set sales/profits/revenue records?
If that's not what you meant, please provide your definition of "peaked"because it might be different from the accepted one.
I really do believe they will never again get to the level the iPod and iPhone catapulted them to. I'd be more interested to know what hints is Apple dropping that make you think they will? I'm not seeing them and frankly, outside of a few enthusiasts in forums like this, no one else is either.
By peaked, I mean under their current business model with all their mobile products. The market is becoming saturated and highly competitive.
As I said, they will have to reinvent another industry (TV?) to regain growth rates like they had two years ago. But that is proving a lot harder than the smartphone and tablet industries. And competitors aren't standing still. And content providers are not ready to give Apple carte blanche like before either.
What hints were dropped that the ipod, iPhone and ipad would catapult them to the levels that they reached?
it's so funny how quickly people forget. All three of those products were panned after their introduction. All three of those products are ubiquitous with mp3s, phones and tablets now. Please don't act as if apple was going around dropping hints left and right before introducing those products and everyone was talking about how much apple would grow because of them..
And as I said that's a great place to peak. No one, save samsung can hold a candle to apple in the mobile market. Samsung will peak too by your definition, when they do I hope I see you here telling us that.
Apple will be fine.
I just hope the iPad 5 doesn't show apple resting on it's laurels. I'd like to be wowed again...last time for the iPad was the build quality and size of the Mini and before that the Retina display introduced with the iPad 3.
The race to the bottom should be a concern for a company charging $499 for a full sized device with a puny 16gb chip for storage!
Quick comparison, I've since sold my iPad 3 and Mini, but around for the price of an iPad 4, 32 gb I have the following:
Nexus 10 (Paid $380 on ebay)
Nexus 7 (Paid $270)
Both these devices have 32 gb as the iPad 4 and I can do pretty much everything I did with my iPad 3/Mini combo (and sometimes more with Android's open system!!). Don't want to fan a flame war, but I can pretty much switch between ecosystems without feeling I'm missing something, especially as I have an iOS device in my iPhone 5...
The race to the bottom should be a concern for a company charging $499 for a full sized device with a puny 16gb chip for storage!
Quick comparison, I've since sold my iPad 3 and Mini, but around for the price of an iPad 4, 32 gb I have the following:
Nexus 10 (Paid $380 on ebay)
Nexus 7 (Paid $270)
Both these devices have 32 gb as the iPad 4 and I can do pretty much everything I did with my iPad 3/Mini combo (and sometimes more with Android's open system!!). Don't want to fan a flame war, but I can pretty much switch between ecosystems without feeling I'm missing something, especially as I have an iOS device in my iPhone 5...
This is what I was waiting for too
But it looks like they replaced that market expansion with their watch idea. I think they gave up
In other words. It's just a gut feeling you're going off of. Which I already knew long before you just made it clear.
just wait till the announcement of ipad 5 and you'll see who's the boss.
but i have to admit, lenovo did make good products, they deserved this MUCH growth, good job.
but i have to admit, lenovo did make good products, they deserved this MUCH growth, good job.
In other words. It's just a gut feeling you're going off of. Which I already knew long before you just made it clear.
my gut feeling seems a little more logical then your "the most valuable company in the world has nothing left to offer" no? what am i taking about?? Of course it doesn't...to you.
Thanks for not playing, not reading, or not understanding.
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It is actually more likely becoming segmented, just as the computer market is segmented. Apple hasn't shown any interest in competing in the low end of the computer market, where profits barely exist, and I don't see them taking much interest in competing at the low end of the tablet market. This is one of the problems with fixating on market share statistics that don't make any useful distinctions, and why they tell us nothing of real value.
It actually does. When Apple created these two markets, they had it all to themselves. High-end, mid-range, and low-end. With that kind of control, you have pricing power and are at the peak from a profit standpoint.
For 3-4 years, Apple had little or no competition and saw their profits grow exponentially as well as their stock.
Now with competition at all levels, those days are gone and I don't see those days returning. That's all that's being discussed.
Logical? Lets recap then. What Apple managed to do with the iPod is unprecedented. They came out with a product that made a company that was on the verge of bankruptcy become the most profitable company in the world. To my knowledge, this has never happened before. Not with Apple, or anyone else for that matter. The person largely responsible for this was Steve Jobs. The closest person Apple had to his vision was, sadly, Forestall.
Now, lets get back to you. You think that somehow this highly unlikely rabbit Apple pulled out of the bag is not only going to happen again, but happen to the same company and happen without the guys that made it happen? They were extremely fortunate that it happened once, and your gut isn't going to be enough to make it happen again. Apple will not become the company they were or remain the company they are if they do not stop the bleeding soon.
When the tablet market was created, it did not have any segments, only what Apple was selling. Apple was never in the position to prevent low-end players from coming in and selling low-end tablets at under $100. That's a definite segment of the market now. Granted the bottom feeders can crank out millions of these tablets, and they will appear and disappear just as quickly.
What this means for Apple's tablet business is yet to be determined, but what I do know is that including every tablet sold in every price range in one unified "tablet market" for the purpose of evaluating market share and drawing conclusions is a mistake. It's a mistake because market share doesn't really measure anything under the best of circumstances, and these are far from the best of circumstances.
The bottom line is the bottom line. In the end the only thing that really matters how much money is being made. Apple knows how to make money at the higher end of product markets. This is what they've always done, so I don't see the tablet market any differently.
As for what will drive Apple's profits (and the stock), that will also be what it always has been: opening new markets, not chasing old ones.
I think we are in complete agreement. Yes, the market is more segmented than when it first started. But that also means that Apple can't address all of it like before. The high-end of the market will be about 20% of the overall market just like PCs. Sure, they'll make the majority of profits but less than before when they were the only game in town.
Y
You seem to be missing points left and right in this thread. Not just with me either. I didn't say that they're going to pull some rabbit out of a hat and dominate the world and destroy their competitors. I simply stated that that assumption that they will never succeed again based on, of all things, marketshare is beyond ridiculous. They don't need to create a product that has the power of the ipod to be successful.
You still have not answered the question at hand. If as you say they are "bleeding" (how dramatic.... ) why are they selling more devices than ever before?
What a way to bleed! If only we all could bleed so profusely.
Cut the dramatics. Marketshare is an idiotic metric. It was when when Steve jobs touted it, it still is now.
It says zero about a company's success. And you have not proven otherwise.
What's doubly funny is you saying that there are no hints from apple and when asked what hints they've ever provided all you could come up with was some off topic cop out about gut feelings. Thanks for playing, indeed!
You seem to be missing points left and right in this thread. Not just with me either. I didn't say that they're going to pull some rabbit out of a hat and dominate the world and destroy their competitors. I simply stated that that assumption that they will never succeed again based on, of all things, marketshare is beyond ridiculous. They don't need to create a product that has the power of the ipod to be successful.
You still have not answered the question at hand. If as you say they are "bleeding" (how dramatic....
) why are they selling more devices than ever before?What a way to bleed! If only we all could bleed so profusely.
Cut the dramatics. Marketshare is an idiotic metric. It was when when Steve jobs touted it, it still is now.
It says zero about a company's success. And you have not proven otherwise.
What's doubly funny is you saying that there are no hints from apple and when asked what hints they've ever provided all you could come up with was some off topic cop out about gut feelings. Thanks for playing, indeed!
I'd argue that your last point remains to be seen, and that this is the very problem with the market share fixation. If the pie continues to grow, as I think we all expect it will, then there's no reason why Apple's profits from their slice of the pie can't grow too. Apple doesn't need to dominate every segment of the tablet market to grow their profits from it.
These results are a bit different than the report last week from another firm, so it's all a guess. The only thing that is the same is that Apple is the number one company, far ahead of any other single company, and the "others" outsold Samdung at the #2 spot.
Think about it for a minute, 38+% of the units were sold by companies with a market share around 3% or less, so we're talking about over a dozen at the minimum. Other the Microsoft, which didn't make the list, can you name another one?
There must be a flood of cheap generic "tablets" out there sold at gas station checkout lines, etc. I would like to see the complete list to see what they count as a tablet. Our friend's 6 year old daughter received a "tablet" made for kids last Christmas that plays games, does that count? Our home improvement store had a doorbuster "tablet" last Black Friday for $79 or something like that. I'm sure someone bought one for their grandchildren last Christmas, thinking that's what they wanted, unfortunately they were mercilessly teased at school for being too poor for an iPad, until they threw it in the sewer and talked their parents into getting a real tablet.
I would say throw out about 35% of the 38.8% of the others market share and rework the percentages to get an accurate reading.
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Y
You seem to be missing points left and right in this thread. Not just with me either. I didn't say that they're going to pull some rabbit out of a hat and dominate the world and destroy their competitors. I simply stated that that assumption that they will never succeed again based on, of all things, marketshare is beyond ridiculous. They don't need to create a product that has the power of the ipod to be successful.
You still have not answered the question at hand. If as you say they are "bleeding" (how dramatic....
What a way to bleed! If only we all could bleed so profusely.
Cut the dramatics. Marketshare is an idiotic metric. It was when when Steve jobs touted it, it still is now.
It says zero about a company's success. And you have not proven otherwise.
What's doubly funny is you saying that there are no hints from apple and when asked what hints they've ever provided all you could come up with was some off topic cop out about gut feelings. Thanks for playing, indeed!
I never said they did provide hints, I'm saying the trend apple is seeing down is a downward slope and I see nothing on the horizon that's going to change that and asked you what you saw that makes you think it will. You came up with a scenario that Apple was lucky to pull off to begin with and the liklihood of it happening again are close to impossible. You clearly have a problem with me labeling your argument as a gut feeling... How about wishful thinking instead? And there's nothing that needs to be "proven" I'm going by market trends and the market is very clearly moving away from Apple. Don't believe me? Read the first post. If that's too much work then just read the thread topic instead.
The issue isn't if apple will "survive" they likely will thanks to their dedicated fan base. The issue is how much market share can they continue to lose and still be relavent?
Apple in danger of becoming irrelevant? Wow, I haven't heard that one since the '90s! If you can't come up with a goodie, I guess you have to stick with an oldie.