Why would you say that ? It's a computer and it's personal. What more do you need to define a Personal Computer (that's what PC means) ?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's US Market Share Slips in 1Q 2009
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Why would you say that ? It's a computer and it's personal. What more do you need to define a Personal Computer (that's what PC means) ?
Not disputing that at all. I am going to wager that most of that downturn is in the commercial rather than the consumer sector though.
I know there are people who are really unhappy about that. But is there any evidence that it has hurt their sales?
Fine. I'll concede that you can turn it into a personal computer, but I still wouldn't consider it a personal computer, that's not what it is intended for and that's not what 99% of buyers use it for.
Maybe, we ourselves switched back to HP from Dell after 9 months. The hardware is just tons better and the product support isn't even close.
Are you saying that out of the box it isn't a computer or that it isn't personal ? Because I'm staring at my stock PS3 right now and it does seem like it's mine and it is a computer.
If someone buys a netbook at $200 as a second (or third) machine, are they just as likely to spend $800 on a copy of Photoshop as the purchaser of a workstation?
I say again. Unit sales tells us precisely nothing at all.
Unit sales do not reveal the size of potential secondary markets. The likely software purchases connected to a 5K workstation are going to be ten times as much as a $500 notebook. Market share by revenue is a better indicator.
Nor do unit sales reveal the performance of the individual companies. A company which has gets a third of all computer purchases is performing better than a company which gets a tenth. Market share by revenue is a better indicator again.
Unit sales are a trick. A cheap way to pretend that your company has a commanding market position. But it is a shoddy trick and it fools no one but the stupid.
If year on year, your revenue per unit is falling. That means your company is losing value. Not gaining value.
C.
I'm saying out of the box it isn't a computer. Out of the box it can't run computer software, specifically software that runs on the mac, linux, or windows OSs.
You really believe that if you keep shouting that, it will somehow become true, don't you?
So wait, Computer software is software that will run only on Mac, Linux or Windows ? So NetView on our IBM 390 is not in fact Computer software ? A SGI Octane running IRIX isn't a Computer with Computer software ? Our SAP CRM isn't Computer software because it runs on HP-UX on PA-RISC hardware ? The PS3 media player isn't software that runs on the PPC based Cell processor ?
You're not making much sense here.
You consider IBM 390, SGI Octane, or SAP CRM to be "personal computers"? That was what you were just talking about, right?
And I assume the PS3 won't run Netview, IRIX, or HP-UX software out of the box either, right?
I mentioned Ikea earlier... the assumption appears to be that premium and luxury brands do miserably in recessions while the bargain-bin folks are having a field day, but sometimes it's the other way around. Ikea has seen a huge sales dip over the last few months but niche stores that sell fearfully expensive stuff like Herman Miller aren't really noticing much of a difference. I guess the conclusion we can draw from this is that people who buy the most expensive stuff always have money, while the Joe Schmoes are so spooked by the recession that they don't even dare shop at Ikea.
It's a bit more complicated than that with Apple, though, because they're not all Herman Miller... they also have a $999 MacBook, the Mini, etc. So I don't know what's going on. Looking at older data might probably shed some light on things. For example, how do the figures usually look when Apple introduces a brand new design, like they did with the unibody MB(P)s? Perhaps something like the UMBP used to sell like hotcakes but now it's only on par with the old model in terms of sales? Maybe the curve staying relatively flat is actually a huge disappointment? New Minis out, brand new MB/MBP design, new MP w/ Nehalem, new iMacs... how would that have affected sales in, say, 2007?
Unit sales tell you roughly how many people you convinced or failed to convince of the value of your offering.
If you unit sales are dropping, and your market share shrinking, it should tell you your message is getting less and less universal.
Many mac users dream of their platform no longe being niche, with the disadvantages that this implies. They would like Apple to sell cheap devices to more people can join the bandwagon for THEIR benefit.
Now you are clearly a share holder, and care more about Apple's bottom line than the ease of finding a compatible USB peripheral. Thats fine, and maybe Apple should include a few shares with every purchase of their products.
The fact as it stands however is that you are unable to understand the perspective of many of the posters in the thread, who are evangelical about macs and care quite a lot about Apple growing market share and taking over the PC world. For them "winning" is not about having maximum profit but maximum penetration.
To give an analogy you may be able to understand - if the iPhone gets stuck at 1% of the phone market, and RIM grows to 20%, you will not see such an active app market, and users will lose out.
Unit market share is important, especially to USERS.
Actually, statistics here (in Quebec) showed that most job loss was occuring at the low paying, low qualitification jobs. Also, it showed that most higher paying jobs with some kind of specialisation (either through education or specific abilities) were mostly secure for the time being.
This gives us a poor class of people that are now poorer and with an uncertain future, and most financially able people being in the same boat as they were in before this mess started.
This is probably similar in the US and elsewhere that isn't a manufacturing country such as China.
While you're correct in assuming that netbook sales aren't gonna help sales of Maya or Adobe CS4 Master Collection, there are different business models you know. Ever heard of... Skype? Google Chrome? Windows Live (Messenger, SkyDrive etc)? Even Apple makes free software for Windows, and none of these companies are charities, so obviously there's money to be made somehow by offering free software that even flat broke college students can get their hands on.
Right, although many countries (especially European ones) have some pretty heavy-duty regulating mechanisms built into the system. Take Denmark, with unemployment benefits that give you 90% of the salary you last had before losing your job, for 300 days. Will those people stop consuming? Hell no. But an American who loses his job and can't find a new one quickly will go into hibernation mode and live off Kool-Aid and uncooked noodles. So the effects vary greatly from country to country.KnightWRX said:
No, they're computers that run software. You said that software, in order to be computer software, had to run on Linux, Mac or Windows. I just pointed out that you were wrong, Computers and Computer software are much broader in a general sense than just those 3 OSes and Intel's hardware platform.
You said the PS3's problem wasn't that it wasn't personal, but that it wasn't a computer because it didn't run computer software. I was just establishing that it does in fact run software, even computer software and thus is a computer.
Now, the only barrier of entry to the PC world for the PS3 is the personal thing. Are you saying a PS3 is somekind of IBM system 390 or PA-RISC cabinet ? Or it is more of a personal computer ?
And I assume the PS3 won't run Netview, IRIX, or HP-UX software out of the box either, right?
We already established that a PS3 runs PS3 software. Like Windows runs Windows software, Mac runs Mac software, etc..
This is just too much. There's like 3 different arguments going on in here.
I got some questions though, is my TI-85 a PC? It computes mathmatical equations and it's also mine. And what if I lend it to a friend and he uses it for computations, but doesn't own it, is it still a PC?
I got some questions though, is my TI-85 a PC? It computes mathmatical equations and it's also mine. And what if I lend it to a friend and he uses it for computations, but doesn't own it, is it still a PC?
No, I didn't say that. I said that if the PS3 were a personal computer, it would run either mac, windows, or linux apps out of the box. Who would expect a personal computer to run Netview, IRIX, or HP-UX?
I'm not wrong, I merely assumed that since you were talking about personal computers, you wouldn't be pedantic enough to insist that I mention OSs other than the ones generally considered PERSONAL computer OSs. Obviously I was wrong about that.
If you are suggesting that the PS3's inability to run Netview, IRIX, or HP-UX out of the box makes it even less of a computer, I'd happily agree with that.
I never said it doesn't run software, just that it doesn't run personal COMPUTER software out of the box. Obviously it runs its own PS3 software, but nobody would consider that personal COMPUTER software.
And it will run linux software with the installation of that OS, which is why I said I don't consider it a personal computer out of the box, but it can be turned into a computer.
No, since it doesn't run computer software out of the box (and it doesn't run any software from any of the OSs you or I have mentioned, personal or otherwise, out of the box, does it?) I don't consider it a computer out of the box.
You didn't answer my question. I assume that's a "no"?
The XMB is computer software, so is the WWW browser, the media player and about every game software that runs on it. So yes, the PS3 does run COMPUTER software like you like saying.
It's established that the PS3 is a computer that indeed runs computer software. Again, the only barrier of entry in your Personal Computer world is now for the PS3 to not be any kind of personal thing.
Yes, it is a personal computer. It's personal and it uses computer software to use the underlying hardware (be it a general purpose processor or a micro-controller) in order to perform computation.