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These threads remind me of the old "I'd buy an iPod if only it had an FM radio!"

No, they wouldn't have, and no, you won't. The Apple TV always needs just ONE more thing and suddenly everyone would buy it!

You all don't really want one, and that's fine. But why can't you* just say that instead of making up reasons why you haven't bought one? You just don't really need one. There's nothing wrong with just saying that.

*[edit: I'm talking about the thread in general, not an individual.]

Please, the :apple:tv doesn't come close to any of the window media devices on market right now. If it even had 1080p I might consider it. Without that its not worth the money. It needs serious updates before it can come close to Steve's claim that :apple:tv is a home entertainment hub
 
Please, the :apple:tv doesn't come close to any of the window media devices on market right now. If it even had 1080p I might consider it. Without that its not worth the money. It needs serious updates before it can come close to Steve's claim that :apple:tv is a home entertainment hub

Tough luck for you, I guess. The rest of us will enjoy using it as an entertainment hub. I've now got 250+ DVDs, 3200+ photos, 256 music videos and 5500+ songs accessible from three rooms in my house using it. I'm converting my VHS and Laserdisc collection next once my Canopus 110 arrives (AVT-8710 TBC got here yesterday). I can even start watching a movie in one room and finish in another. Plus I can rent great looking 720P HD movies that are ready to play in less than 1 minute from the comfort of my living room (no waiting queues for popular BD movies from Netflix, wondering when I'll actually get to watch it; no trips to Hollywood Video in the dead of winter to rent a disc which I'll also have to return). I can also easily hack it to run XBMC, Boxee, add a web browers, etc. and then watch hulu.com and other sites as well. If THAT isn't an entertainment hub, I don't know WTF is dude.

Some of you are so freaking hung up on 1080P it isn't even funny. I've got a 93" screen and one of the top-rated LCD 720P projectors out there and AppleTV HD rentals look BETTER than ANY HD on cable/satellite PERIOD. Yeah, BD would look somewhat sharper if I owned a 1080P projector. On a 50" 1080P LCD at over 10 feet away (upstairs set), the differences are minimal at best and have nothing to do with the library I've accumulated over the past 20 years. "Entertainment" isn't just limited to Blu-Ray Disc, you know. I'll power up the PS3 if I need to watch a BD movie. The AppleTV and HD Cable box cover everything else.
 
Tough luck for you, I guess. The rest of us will enjoy using it as an entertainment hub. I've now got 250+ DVDs, 3200+ photos, 256 music videos and 5500+ songs accessible from three rooms in my house using it. I'm converting my VHS and Laserdisc collection next once my Canopus 110 arrives (AVT-8710 TBC got here yesterday). I can even start watching a movie in one room and finish in another. Plus I can rent great looking 720P HD movies that are ready to play in less than 1 minute from the comfort of my living room (no waiting queues for popular BD movies from Netflix, wondering when I'll actually get to watch it; no trips to Hollywood Video in the dead of winter to rent a disc which I'll also have to return). I can also easily hack it to run XBMC, Boxee, add a web browers, etc. and then watch hulu.com and other sites as well. If THAT isn't an entertainment hub, I don't know WTF is dude.

Windows Media Center can allow you to watch and record TV shows, which for the majority of people is the main "entertainment" in their hub. I'm no WMC fan, but at least it's got a DVR and Tuner.

Some of you are so freaking hung up on 1080P it isn't even funny. I've got a 93" screen and one of the top-rated LCD 720P projectors out there and AppleTV HD rentals look BETTER than ANY HD on cable/satellite PERIOD. Yeah, BD would look somewhat sharper if I owned a 1080P projector. On a 50" 1080P LCD at over 10 feet away (upstairs set), the differences are minimal at best and have nothing to do with the library I've accumulated over the past 20 years. "Entertainment" isn't just limited to Blu-Ray Disc, you know. I'll power up the PS3 if I need to watch a BD movie. The AppleTV and HD Cable box cover everything else.

Again, no TV by itself as the majority of people normally use a TV. Otherwise, 1080p support withstanding, it is a solid device as you clearly point out. But until it lives up to its namesake of Apple "TV", it's a hard point to argue how great of an entertainment hub it is.
 
Windows Media Center can allow you to watch and record TV shows, which for the majority of people is the main "entertainment" in their hub. I'm no WMC fan, but at least it's got a DVR and Tuner.

Again, no TV by itself as the majority of people normally use a TV. Otherwise, 1080p support withstanding, it is a solid device as you clearly point out. But until it lives up to its namesake of Apple "TV", it's a hard point to argue how great of an entertainment hub it is.

Why would I need or even WANT a tuner in AppleTV when it would NOT work with my cable company's secure signal (or anyone's satellite for that matter) and thus would not only be completely worthless, but an increase in money for nothing? I think you're confusing a media center with a cable box, personally unless you want one box to literally do every last single possible function you could ever want. Maybe you'd like it to be camcorder, digital camera and game box too?

Now IF Apple would start offering a subscription for unlimited tv show viewing per month, you would not even need a cable box any longer as it could literally replace most people's needs for cable or satellite. If they'd offer the same for movies, there'd be no more point to Netflix either. Hopefully, Apple will realize that some day.
 
I bought an AppleTV and sold it on eBay a week later, unopened, realizing that I would never be able to use this useless box that is HDTV-only and doesn't have the ability to do anything but play Apple Store content. How pathetic.
 
Why would I need or even WANT a tuner in AppleTV when it would NOT work with my cable company's secure signal (or anyone's satellite for that matter) and thus would not only be completely worthless, but an increase in money for nothing? I think you're confusing a media center with a cable box, personally unless you want one box to literally do every last single possible function you could ever want. Maybe you'd like it to be camcorder, digital camera and game box too?

Im not confused at all. It should not work with a cable or satellite. An AppleTV with an ATSC tuner and DVR would allow people to cancel their cable/satellite subscription. They could get the major networks for free OTA (no sense paying for what's already free) then with all that extra cash from their cancelled subscription, they buy whatever else they want to watch with iTunes downloads. Consumers save money, Apple makes money. I don't want it to be a camcorder as you suggest, :rolleyes:, but it should at the very least, be able to receive and record the content that TV's display a vast majority of the time. Otherwise, why call it an AppleTV?

Now IF Apple would start offering a subscription for unlimited tv show viewing per month, you would not even need a cable box any longer as it could literally replace most people's needs for cable or satellite. If they'd offer the same for movies, there'd be no more point to Netflix either. Hopefully, Apple will realize that some day.

You are more than welcome to spend as much as you please on subscription services. I, however, value my money and would prefer to pay only for what I watch and not for that which is currently beamed into my home free of charge.
 
I bought an AppleTV and sold it on eBay a week later, unopened, realizing that I would never be able to use this useless box that is HDTV-only and doesn't have the ability to do anything but play Apple Store content. How pathetic.

It's not HDTV only in any sense (if anything most whine it cannot do 1080P). It handles 480i/p just fine (unless you mean it won't work with ancient NTSC TVs). It'll play any content you can import into iTunes. That doesn't mean you have to buy it from the iTunes store. 98% of all my content is NOT from Apple. I have 400+ CDs, 250+ DVDs and over 3200 photos (scanned from photo albums, negatives and digital camera imports) imported into iTunes and playable on either one of my two AppleTV units and they are obviously not from the iTunes store. So either you are completely uninformed about the product or you're trolling; take your pick.

Im not confused at all. It should not work with a cable or satellite. An AppleTV with an ATSC tuner and DVR would allow people to cancel their cable/satellite subscription. They could get the major networks for free OTA (no sense paying for what's already free) then with all that extra cash from their cancelled subscription, they buy whatever else they want to watch with iTunes downloads. Consumers save money, Apple makes money. I don't want it to be a camcorder as you suggest, :rolleyes:, but it should at the very least, be able to receive and record the content that TV's display a vast majority of the time. Otherwise, why call it an AppleTV?

So what you want is an OTA tuner/DVR + AppleTV combination. You can still accomplish what you're looking for by buying a Tivo HD and an AppleTV. Toast has streaming software that will let you transfer Tivo DVR recordings onto your computer, which could then be encoded for long term storage/playback on AppleTV (or played directly if you hack AppleTV to use XBMC and/or Boxee). Given you apparently don't like the subscription model (if someone watches a lot of programs or movies there comes a point where it'd be cheaper than ala carte, but that's a personal issue/preference), really the purchase of a Tivo is all that you'd need to complete your desire (unless 1080P is a must for you).

I'm not aware of other boxes with the TV content availability that iTunes has so I'm not sure what else you could use INSTEAD of AppleTV there offhand. How would Windows Media Center help there (given you mentioned it earlier as being a real media center as opposed to AppleTV).

As for why it's called AppleTV; it offers movies and TV shows to play back on your television and it's from Apple. How is that name not appropriate? Not everything playable on a TV is a cable box or tuner.

Overall, you seem upset that AppleTV doesn't have a tuner/DVR in it and not much else that I can see offhand. So buy a Tivo and Toast and connect it to a computer acting as an NAS/Server running iTunes (I use an old upgraded PowerMac with Sata added and will shortly change out the dual 500 drives for dual 2TB drives) and you won't need cable/satellite. Hack AppleTV for boxee and you can view things like Hulu directly as well. I've already got over two dozen internet radio stations I actually like off iTunes selectable from ATV as well.

Between MKV tools, iSquint (or Visual Hub) and Handbrake, I can encode nearly any content I get online or have at home on DVD. I just bought a Canopus 110, external TBC and a used professional VCR which will allow me to transfer all my Laserdisc and VHS home movies and videos never released on DVD to both DVD and AppleTV (after I'm done, I'll probably sell the equipment).

I won't argue that a tuner/DVR option for ATV wouldn't make it more useful and complete. I've already argued that a built-in DVD or BD drive with an onboard .H264 encoder to move your own content into your library as you watch it would be very useful as well, but there will always be those that don't want to pay for the extra equipment they don't personally want anyway. In your case, the purchase of a Tivo HD to use with AppleTV would probably solve most of your complaints. Admittedly, a future ATV that has enough power to handle 1080P would solve my only unworkable complaint about the system (everything else can be worked around or hacked into it). I'd prefer a subscription option on the Apple iTunes side of things for movies and/or unlimited tv show viewing or at least a TV show RENTAL option for 50 cents or something ($2-3 an episode is pretty high and adds up quick when I have no desire to store most TV shows; I just want to watch them once). Just watching a mere 5 TV shows a week (one each day only during the weekdays) at $3 for the HD versions would cost me more than my HD cable subscription costs me each month and I probably watch 2-3x that on average so the purchase rate is NOT a good alternative at the current buy/pricing structure and hence why I'd prefer a flat rate subscription. Your mileage may vary.
 
So what you want is an OTA tuner/DVR + AppleTV combination. You can still accomplish what you're looking for by buying a Tivo HD and an AppleTV. Toast has streaming software that will let you transfer Tivo DVR recordings onto your computer, which could then be encoded for long term storage/playback on AppleTV (or played directly if you hack AppleTV to use XBMC and/or Boxee). Given you apparently don't like the subscription model (if someone watches a lot of programs or movies there comes a point where it'd be cheaper than ala carte, but that's a personal issue/preference), really the purchase of a Tivo is all that you'd need to complete your desire (unless 1080P is a must for you).

An AppleTV with DVR and OTA Tuner is what I want, not an AppleTV and a Tivo. I don't want to have to hack it, work around it or buy other devices to supplement it. And as for Tivo, I don't want to pay a huge subscription price for information that's readily available free of charge.

I'm not aware of other boxes with the TV content availability that iTunes has so I'm not sure what else you could use INSTEAD of AppleTV there offhand. How would Windows Media Center help there (given you mentioned it earlier as being a real media center as opposed to AppleTV).

Besides renting HD movies from iTunes, a WMC can do everything an AppleTV can and a whole lot more without needing a whole separate computer. It can be a DVR, you can get it with a Blu Ray or DVD drive, you can buy content from iTunes, you can watch Netflix On Demand, surf the internet to watch streaming sites like Hulu...

As for why it's called AppleTV; it offers movies and TV shows to play back on your television and it's from Apple. How is that name not appropriate? Not everything playable on a TV is a cable box or tuner.

"iTunes Storefront" is a much more appropriate name. By itself, it can do nothing more. To have TV in its name is very misleading in its current hardware configuration. People watch TV. This only lets you buy TV. Big difference.

Please know I'm not upset/arguing with you personally. My beef is with Apple and Apple alone. They have the technology to make the greatest entertainment convergence device the world's ever seen (DVR, 1080p support, Apps, games, etc.), and all they've got to show for it is the current AppleTV. IMHO, that's pathetic. A start, but a pathetic start nonetheless.
 
"iTunes Storefront" is a much more appropriate name. By itself, it can do nothing more. To have TV in its name is very misleading in its current hardware configuration. People watch TV. This only lets you buy TV. Big difference.

Do you even own an Apple TV? This thing only lets you buy TV? YouTube is free, as are Podcasts. What about all my DVDs that I own? I rip them.

Out of the box, it was designed solely as an iTunes Store front. That was the point behind Take 2 - to allow people who don't have a computer to use it. But it is far more than that.

Heard of EyeTV for the Mac? Set that to record, then automatically export to your Apple TV.
 
Do you even own an Apple TV? This thing only lets you buy TV? YouTube is free, as are Podcasts. What about all my DVDs that I own? I rip them.

Out of the box, it was designed solely as an iTunes Store front. That was the point behind Take 2 - to allow people who don't have a computer to use it. But it is far more than that.

Heard of EyeTV for the Mac? Set that to record, then automatically export to your Apple TV.

No, I don't own one. YT and podcasts? I'm talking about network TV. Try watching a live sporting event on ABC CBS Fox or NBC with it.

Did you rip all those DVD's with your AppleTV? Didn't think so.

As for EyeTV, allow me to plug it into the AppleTV and use it without a separate computer and I'd be very happy. Otherwise, I'd just get a Mini.

:rolleyes:
 
No, I don't own one. YT and podcasts? I'm talking about network TV. Try watching a live sporting event on ABC CBS Fox or NBC with it.

Did you rip all those DVD's with your AppleTV? Didn't think so.

As for EyeTV, allow me to plug it into the AppleTV and use it without a separate computer and I'd be very happy. Otherwise, I'd just get a Mini.

:rolleyes:

Why would you want to watch live TV through the Apple TV? That's the point in OTA. And it is TV Shows rather than Sporting Events Apple is aiming for with iTunes.

Course, like many people, there is other ways to get TV Shows other than paying for them. I pay for my TV license in the UK, and if I missed a BBC TV Show, I'll download it on torrent then encode it onto my Apple TV. Not paying twice.

For what it does for me - hundreds of episodes of TV shows and movies all at a finger click away. That's why I love it..
 
Why would you want to watch live TV through the Apple TV? That's the point in OTA. And it is TV Shows rather than Sporting Events Apple is aiming for with iTunes.

Course, like many people, there is other ways to get TV Shows other than paying for them. I pay for my TV license in the UK, and if I missed a BBC TV Show, I'll download it on torrent then encode it onto my Apple TV. Not paying twice.

For what it does for me - hundreds of episodes of TV shows and movies all at a finger click away. That's why I love it..

OTA for DVR, free shows and live events. 3 major components of "watching TV." Here in the US, OTA reception is free and if I'm missing a show, I should be able to DVR it and watch 15 minutes after it starts or 15 days after it aired. No downloading or encoding required.

Correct, iTunes isn't for sporting events, that's what OTA if for and why it should be a part of AppleTV.
 
I've never heard such bull talked about anything for a long time. IMO, no, obviously there will never be a DVD or BD player in the Apple TV. There will furthermore never be a TV tuner of any description. Nor will there ever be an import option for DVD in iTunes.

If this is a problem for you, go and buy something else. Afterall, Apple is not forcing you to adopt their solution.
 
I've never heard such bull talked about anything for a long time. IMO, no, obviously there will never be a DVD or BD player in the Apple TV. There will furthermore never be a TV tuner of any description. Nor will there ever be an import option for DVD in iTunes.

If this is a problem for you, go and buy something else. Afterall, Apple is not forcing you to adopt their solution.

Thanks for your keen insight.:rolleyes:

You mention it's "their solution." Solution to what?
 
My media-centre is my PS3, and it blows the Apple TV out of the water. In my opinion Apple really missed the boat with the :apple:TV.

Apple should have looked at what consumers use their TVs for, and based the :apple:TV on that, rather than try and force what Apple thinks they should be using their TVs for down consumers throats.

The :apple:TV can be used to stream media, a very select and DRM'd portion of media at that, to your TV. Do people, by and large, use their TVs for this? Nope. Not at all.

People do a few things with their TVs. They watch over the air broadcasts. They watch DVDs/Blu-Rays. They play games. These are three things the :apple:TV does not do! Why would the average Joe spend money on a "set-top-box" that doesn't really do anything you use your TV for?

The usually astute company that makes products people actually want to use have, for the first time, completely missed the point with the :apple:TV. And this is why it's a dismal failure of a product. They saw it as a portal to shove iTunes down our throat, they didn't design it with the consumer in mind.

If I was designing the :apple:TV I would have made it what the consumer would want. My PS3 is fantastic. With Play TV hooked into it I can watch and record shows like a TiVO. I can play DVDs and Blu-Rays on it. I can browse the internet, listen to music and look at photographs on it. Heck, it even has an application to tell me the weather and local news. THAT is what the :apple:TV should have been.

It should have a dual tuner, allowing users to watch digital TV and record shows. It should have an optical drive so you can watch DVDs/Blu-Rays and rip CDs. It should have a light-weight browser so you can check the net from the comfort of your couch. Add in the iTunes streaming aspect of :apple:TV and you have the perfect set-top box. But the streaming is an extra, not an essential and that's where Apple have gone wrong.

EDIT:
I've never heard such bull talked about anything for a long time. IMO, no, obviously there will never be a DVD or BD player in the Apple TV. There will furthermore never be a TV tuner of any description. Nor will there ever be an import option for DVD in iTunes.

If this is a problem for you, go and buy something else. Afterall, Apple is not forcing you to adopt their solution.

And this illustrates my point exactly. You, good sir, have pinpointed exactly why the Apple TV is such a failure. And why 99.9999999% of people ARE adopting other solutions.

Apple aren't forcing anyone to adopt their solution. The problem is, however, that they also aren't providing any compelling reason for anyone to adopt their solution. It sucks. If Apple's solution was any good then the Apple TV would be a success. So obviously they need to rethink their solution.

How well would the iPod have sold if you could only put iTunes tracks on it, and not your own CDs? Hmmm. iTunes content is a very small portion of what the average consumer owns. All their movies are on DVD, most their music on CD or ripped from CD. Apple may want us to get all our media from iTunes, however it doesn't work like that in reality and designing products around that is going to result in things like the Apple TV that are useless for 99.99% of the population.
 
For me, that isn't nearly enough to warrant a purchase. It needs to replace a service or device I already own, not be an addition.

Well for a lot of people who have cable TV just to watch certain TV shows (Lost for example) buying off iTunes to replace cable TV isn't too bad a deal.
 
Do you even own an Apple TV? This thing only lets you buy TV? YouTube is free, as are Podcasts. What about all my DVDs that I own? I rip them.

Out of the box, it was designed solely as an iTunes Store front. That was the point behind Take 2 - to allow people who don't have a computer to use it. But it is far more than that.

Heard of EyeTV for the Mac? Set that to record, then automatically export to your Apple TV.

And the fact you have to buy extra hardware and use extra software to work AROUND the Apple TV to record TV and put your DVDs on it doesn't make you think there's something wrong with Apple's solution?

The OP you're replying to is right, the Apple TV is an front to the iTunes store and little else. You have to work around it to get it to do anything more, encoding your own DVDs or buying Eye TV. This is functionality that should be built into the Apple TV to make it a useful product rather than the pathetic failure it is. iTunes is not where most people get their media, this fact alone renders the Apple TV next to useless for 99% of people. I personally do not know a single person for whom it would be a useful or cost-effective use their money. And when you design a product with no customers you have a problem.
 
And the fact you have to buy extra hardware and use extra software to work AROUND the Apple TV to record TV and put your DVDs on it doesn't make you think there's something wrong with Apple's solution?

The OP you're replying to is right, the Apple TV is an front to the iTunes store and little else. You have to work around it to get it to do anything more, encoding your own DVDs or buying Eye TV. This is functionality that should be built into the Apple TV to make it a useful product rather than the pathetic failure it is. iTunes is not where most people get their media, this fact alone renders the Apple TV next to useless for 99% of people.

Okay, let's just forget about a DVR for now.

What legal ways are you proposing that allows Apple to provide out of the box DVD ripping? The whole point in the Apple TV is to have a collection of movies at your finger tips rather than having to find DVD's off a shelf.

While I agree completely that it would be awesome if Apple somehow managed to bend the rules and let you just plonk in a DVD and it would rip it, tag it, put on beautiful artwork, it just isn't going to happen.

Apple is pushing online downloads of movies.
 
Okay, let's just forget about a DVR for now.

What legal ways are you proposing that allows Apple to provide out of the box DVD ripping? The whole point in the Apple TV is to have a collection of movies at your finger tips rather than having to find DVD's off a shelf.

While I agree completely that it would be awesome if Apple somehow managed to bend the rules and let you just plonk in a DVD and it would rip it, tag it, put on beautiful artwork, it just isn't going to happen.

Apple is pushing online downloads of movies.

Unfortunately we're not talking about ideals. We're talking about a product that Apple is trying to sell us. A product that does nothing useful for the majority of people.

Apple TV is a flawed concept because it's a solution looking for a problem. People aren't clamouring for a set top box that allows them to buy downloads of movies they already own or can get cheaper or in better quality in optical form. There simply is no market for what Apple TV offers.

It's useless to me, it's useless to everyone I know. In comparison to it's "competition" like my PS3 it's blown out of the water.
 
Unfortunately we're not talking about ideals. We're talking about a product that Apple is trying to sell us. A product that does nothing useful for the majority of people.

Apple TV is a flawed concept because it's a solution looking for a problem. People aren't clamouring for a set top box that allows them to buy downloads of movies they already own or can get cheaper and in better quality in a physical form.

Apple TV is designed to provide on demand movies and TV shows. It does that really well. Plus movie rentals is great.

Additionally it provides YouTube, Podcasts, Photos and Music. Plus it'll play any file you encode to MPEG4 (not ideal I agree).

But the market Apple was targetting was on demand. And they are doing well with it.
 
Well for a lot of people who have cable TV just to watch certain TV shows (Lost for example) buying off iTunes to replace cable TV isn't too bad a deal.

True. But it doesnt allow for live TV, sports, news or local weather. Cable can give me that. I think that Apple just needs to learn from their last update. They gave it more features and sales tripled. Give it even more features and even more people will buy it.

And the fact you have to buy extra hardware and use extra software to work AROUND the Apple TV to record TV and put your DVDs on it doesn't make you think there's something wrong with Apple's solution?

The OP you're replying to is right, the Apple TV is an front to the iTunes store and little else. You have to work around it to get it to do anything more, encoding your own DVDs or buying Eye TV. This is functionality that should be built into the Apple TV to make it a useful product rather than the pathetic failure it is. iTunes is not where most people get their media, this fact alone renders the Apple TV next to useless for 99% of people. I personally do not know a single person for whom it would be a useful or cost-effective use their money. And when you design a product with no customers you have a problem.

Right on.

Okay, let's just forget about a DVR for now.

What legal ways are you proposing that allows Apple to provide out of the box DVD ripping? The whole point in the Apple TV is to have a collection of movies at your finger tips rather than having to find DVD's off a shelf.

While I agree completely that it would be awesome if Apple somehow managed to bend the rules and let you just plonk in a DVD and it would rip it, tag it, put on beautiful artwork, it just isn't going to happen.

Apple is pushing online downloads of movies.

Apple isn't concerned with users breaking the law. They themselves can't, so they won't provide that option built in, but 3rd party apps... they've never discouraged.
 
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