AppleTV Survey

[davidbrummy]

FWIW, the wife and I have an appleTV and an HD TiVo. Just this week we made the decision to dump cable, get an OTA antenna, and save some serious cash.

Why? The only shows we really love are available over the air. We generally watch some trash off the cable channels, but that's really a waste of time we should spend reading or sleeping.

If there is something we really need to watch that we can't get OTA, we can do it on our laptops. On that point, I'd like the appleTV to be able to stream content from the internet. As others have pointed out, Boxee can do that. I'd like a solution from Apple on that front.

No biggie, though. HD movie rentals and airTunes are what got me to buy it, one year ago this Saturday (it was a "valentine's gift" for the Mrs.)

We have just done the same. We were paying $85/month for DirectTV and got an email saying it was going up. I already was using a MacMini for most TV so it seemd absolutely silly to keep being ripped off.

I puchased the Samsung Blue-Ray DVD with Netflix streaming ($9/month) and just ordered an Apple TV. Like you I am planning on a OTA and possibly a HD Tivo as they would also do content streaming from Netflix etc.

I would like to see a better merge of the MacMini an Apple Tv. Having to convert files through iSquint is a pain.

 

[ricosuave]

I would love an ability to easily upgrade the hard drive. Maybe the disk image is downloadable from the Apple site and installed on a larger disk as your needs grow.

 

[Claytoniss]

I am against the inclusion of a Blu-ray or DVD drive. It would destroy the whole point of having a digital media player in the living room. Discs are dead as far as I am concerned, all hail the digital download future!

Can't agree more. It's the more green thing to do.

 

[The General]

All I really want is extendability and the "my music" and "my movies" etc. at the top so I don't have to hit DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN just to get to my freaking music.

Oh, and Netflix. I have a Roku box, but I'd love to just use one device for iTunes stuff and Netflix.

Something else that bugs me - if I'm at someones house and the have an AppleTV or an Airport Express, I should be able to play a song from my iPhone to those through Airtunes... But that's an iPhone feature request...

 

[hiptobesquare]

I am in exactly this position now... what to do. The only problem is... NO Money, because CABLE is taking it all!

Just expanded analog CATV is more than $70 per month, on top of Cable broadband internet, a somewhat more reasonable ~40$.

I want to get rid of that 70$ bill that feeds 60% crap into my TV, and shows at least as many ads as network broadcast. I don't want to replace it with an ugly dish, and a bill to someone else. I would prefer a buy-once solution, and on-demand service for streaming or buying content of my choice later on. It was a hard enough decision to accept a phone contract for my iPhone.

There are a few shows, though, that I do like on cable, and don't particularly want to miss them. Most are on Hulu, or otherwise available, although TBS tends to screw with Apple browsers, and not play.

Preconceived requirement: Apple interface. prefer not *nix, and really don't want Windows Media Center.

1: if I pull TV down from a tuner, I want to be able to time shift it. DVR functionality. AppleTV doesn't have it at all.

2: Sometimes I just want to go down the street, and get a DVD, or theoretically someday a BluRay disc for a high-def screen if I ever can afford one... without blowing out all of the bandwidth for my network connection.

3: I want a device that will play media from it's own hardware sometimes. Hulu even is jittery and has to re-buffer sometimes. I don't generally mind a hickup, but sometimes it can get bad.

4: I don't want to buy TV to watch it one time. Either time shift a broadcast, or present a streaming episode online, without costing money to watch it once. If it is fantastic, I'll consider buying it and keeping it on file, like I do with a couple of TV shows, like Firefly on DVD. Most TV is not that good, and once is plenty. I don't need to buy that, and store it on my drive space indefinitely.

5: I want it to replace most, or possibly ALL of my media player components in my home theater stack. Apple-box->Monitor, and Apple-box->Digital Audio Reciever->Speakers. The interface of the Apple box should handle all the switching, and AV only does audio decoding and volume/amplification. I would love to be able to buy a High-Def monitor only, without a tuner in it, or speakers built into it.

So...

AppleTV comes up short. It isn't a DVR. It won't play optical discs. It won't do 1080p High definition, and it won't stream content from the net. Boxee comes close, as long as I keep my upscaling DVD player around, or buy an additional BluRay player or something...

MacMini comes up short, because it will do more of those things, but should be able to do them better and cleaner than the nearly 600 day old machine is spec'd for, and it is getting more expensive, once TV tuners are added, and such.

A hackintosh is about the only other way to go, and that is hardly a turnkey solution, and could have compatibility issues in the future, and isn't a market-wide solution for the less-than-hacker-savvy user.

Apple is famous for simplifying things that everyone does. Why do they leave so many features that real people would use, if available to them?

 

[powers74]

research

I was expecteding Apple to already have a new product more or less ready for launch by now - seems odd only starting to do market research this late in the day.

Often a company will do research simply to see if they are on the right track once a design is nearing introduction. The Dodge Ram is an example of that. Before they introduced the "big rig" look in the early '90s, the back end research was about 50/50, but they decided to go for it anyway.

 

[FaasNat]

You must watch Heroes off an antenna because that's the only way you don't buy your TV shows.

I watch Heroes on Hulu. Just sayin'

I spend less then half the money I did on cable and TIVO with my apple TV AND I don't have to watch or fast forward the commercials. Plus I can watch shows that aren't being broadcast this week.

Once you get over the 'I'm buying a tv show' mentality and realize it's just pay as you go cable, with a bigger and more timely library you really realize how useful apple tv really is.

Just say'n

f

I see what you're saying here. However, how do you work around the issue of watching live sports and local news broadcasts?

 

[ChrisA]

Here what a non-buyer is waiting for....

I don't care much about Hollywood movies. But I would like to be able to see my own work on my 1080p Sony TV. I haven many still images and some video and some music. When the ATV can do 1080 I'll buy one

I will not buy the 720 version knowing full well that I will have to replace it later.

 

[Fireteller]

I watch Heroes on Hulu. Just sayin'

I see what you're saying here. However, how do you work around the issue of watching live sports and local news broadcasts?

Well I don't watch TV on my computer (I do watch the occasional movie while traveling), I watch blu-ray/TV on a 100" projection screen with a 720p projector.

You do have a good point re live events, and if that's a good % of a persons view time perhaps an TV isn't right form them. Then again with the $50 or more a month I'm saving I may just pick up a DTV tuner for $20 what the hell.

I am very surprised how useful I found the TV, I really didn't think it was going to be much more then a toy, and a way to rent HD movies (before the netflix streaming service started). And there are a number of things that could really use improvement, such as larger codec support, better interface and the ability to become a media server/client.

But on a strait up comparison of what it is (not what it could be) vs. $100 TimeWarner cable plus TIVO box (no comparison without the TIVO). The only features missing are live events, 1080p and soft porn channels, and it's at least $50 cheaper a month, and the purchase prices is less then the TIVO. The features added are you get a commercial free copy of the shows you watch to keep as long as you like, you pay less if you watch less, you can watch any show, or series for that matter, from the beginning at any time, you never have to setup any shows to record, and you can transfer any of this content including rentals to your laptop or iPhone to watch while traveling.

Wow I really didn't intent to become an evangelist for a little plastic box. Damn you apple.

f

 

[fezparker]

BBC Iplayer for the UK!

 

[godslabrat]

I'd buy an AppleTV tomorrow if it had either a BR drive or a DVR function. If it had both, I'd buy five of them and put them all over the place. Netflix streaming and distance viewing would be nice bonuses.

As it stands, the AppleTV isn't for me. I know that BluRay and Tivo are against Apple's "philosophy", but I disagree, at least a little. BluRay and Tivo are both very popular consumer items and Apple would be silly not to consider them.

I've wondered if it would be possible to sell the AppleTV on a BTO sytem, so you can configure all you like. $199 gets you the unit as it is today, $299 gets you the unit with either a DVR or BR drive and $399 gets you the whole shebang. I'm willing to bet you couldn't keep the $400 units in stock.

 

[thunderclap]

I only want two things: for Apple to fix the firmware so I can watch my legally purchased and digitized movies in 5.1 again, and add a way for me to watch shows streamed through Hulu.com, ABC, CBS, etc. I'm not going to buy the shows so help make it easier for me to watch shows with minimal ads.

 

[m houle]

1) Play avi
2) allow more control of screensavers
3) allow widgets so i can wake up and see the weather and how many emails i got and my todo list for the day / calendar
4) automatic cover art for video
5) IMDB lookup - i would love to know ratings and info without having to hack it

 

[jackfrost123]

I can answer that one... Most people who have Macs have a MB, MB Pro, or iMac. If I want to stream a library of say 10TB then I couldn't do that from my iMac but I could from an HP Media Smart Server running iTunes or from a NAS of some sort.

Also, I personally don't want all of my media (music, photos, and movies) on the machine that I use for everyday work but thats just me.

I'm not saying that I have 10TB of media but I am nearing 1 TB. If I were to re-rip all of that content in lossless for Audio or MPEG 2 for DVDs (not saying that I have ripped any DVDs mind you) then it would take a bunch of space.

Also, I agree with you that it doesn't need DVR functionality or a Blu-Ray drive (just cheaper TV and Movie options either via subscription/ad support or a deal with Tivo/Hulu) but still it is a very nice selling point. Many people, after all, would like to just have 1 box under their TV rather than several. Of course I already have a TivoHD, PS3, Wii, and HK Receiver under mine so who am I to talk...

Ι have been covered in my intended reply by my fellow poster. It's NOT the same as just leaving your Computer open, centralizing your media in an always on, REDUNDAND (i.e. safe from potential failures), server serves countless obvious functions. tv WAS MADE as a client, where's the server then apple? Because my mb or imac NOT media servers. Does the original poster think I can fit my media library in the single disc of the all in one imac?

As for the formats, well excuse me I am not re-ripping all my xvid and divx movies to h.264 simply because apple won't allow a few simple plugins and is bullying me into buying content from them. As for the x.264 it's compatible with h.264 but has a lot of differences in implementation and the containers such as .mkv that will have it are crippled by tv.

tv is so far a failure, it's a poor product serving very little purposes and none of them well or with some flexibility. It's a crippled mac mini and trust me on this one, one of the reasons we have not seen the much required preposterously late mini updates that half the world and their uncle is waiting is because APPLE WANT TO PUSH TV LIKE CRAZY AS THE ULTIMATE VEHICLE TO DOMINATING THE VIDEO MARKET AS THEY DID WITH THE MUSI MARKET. This too me is the reason GUARANTEED. They suddently became from computer the largest music retailer, they are not going to miss the chance to become the next e-blockbuster, we are talking here about the largest entertainment industries, music and movies, they will become a GIANT if they own these two. They will have everyone by the balls. Hence instead of offering a media player, server, such as the mini with functionality that would enable a dvd play back (amongst other things) they have let it rot in terms of updates and they pushed the tv like crazy because they would like to own video too. And that's why they are bending backwards and in a very un-apple move seem to try to do some market research and ask people what the would want, because it seems their greedy plans are not going well and tv+itunes hasn't become the next ipod+itunes to generate billions in content sales. Anyone who doesn't see how obvious this is...

 

[jackfrost123]

The first act should be relatively simple.

Allow importing of DVD's into iTunes in the same manner as you can with CD's. If they made that simple for the average bod, sit back and watch sales climb.

THEY DON'T WANT YOU RENTING DVDS, THEY DON'T WANT YOU USING YOUR DVDS THEY DONT WANT YOU PLAYING ANY DIVX CONTENT, THEY WANT YOU TO BUY AND BUY AND BUY AGAIN FROM ITUNES, THEY ARE THAT $$$GREEDY.

 

[NightStorm]

Ι have been covered in my intended reply by my fellow poster. It's NOT the same as just leaving your Computer open, centralizing your media in an always on, REDUNDAND (i.e. safe from potential failures), server serves countless obvious functions. tv WAS MADE as a client, where's the server then apple? Because my mb or imac NOT media servers. Does the original poster think I can fit my media library in the single disc of the all in one imac?

As for the formats, well excuse me I am not re-ripping all my xvid and divx movies to h.264 simply because apple won't allow a few simple plugins and is bullying me into buying content from them. As for the x.264 it's compatible with h.264 but has a lot of differences in implementation and the containers such as .mkv that will have it are crippled by tv.

I assume this was a response to me (although you quote someone else)...

I'm not saying you should store it all on your iMac... I know I sure don't. I have a NAS that offers RAID5 for some level of redundancy. It is always on. My iMac is always on. So I don't really care if it needs to pair to my iMac. It'd be nice if the files could go directly from the NAS to the AppleTV, but the current setup has not impacted my ability to play any of my files.

I fail to see how Apple is bullying you into buying anything from them. Like I said, you can have an AppleTV and NEVER visit the iTunes Store to buy/rent anything. Furthermore, x264 is a very capable open source h.264 encoder -- it offers better quality and more functionality than you'll find in some of the paid applications out there. You're confusing containers and codecs at this point. Apple has no incentive to support MKV because they already support MP4. If you have the originals, you can easily get them into a format AppleTV can accept, often at lower bitrates and better quality. Why should they include support for outdated (and inferior) codecs like xvid?

If you don't want to do this, then AppleTV is not for you... simple as that.

 

[NightStorm]

THEY DON'T WANT YOU RENTING DVDS, THEY DON'T WANT YOU USING YOUR DVDS THEY DONT WANT YOU PLAYING ANY DIVX CONTENT, THEY WANT YOU TO BUY AND BUY AND BUY AGAIN FROM ITUNES, THEY ARE THAT $$$GREEDY.

How can they prove someone is importing a DVD that they actually bought (i.e. they didn't rent from Netflix)? If you can answer that question, I'll be impressed because that is the very question that prevents any secure DVD copy scheme from making it into iTunes or any other program for that matter.

 

[schneb]

Apple could care less about what we think...

That is the PR they have developed in the last few years. Whether its true or not is immaterial. The fact is that this is the marketing field they have created and it takes years to dismantle such a reputation.

 

[simulacra]

How about letting the rest of the EU have a reason to buy one by opening the itunes movie store up?

I'd love to buy an ATV, but here in sweden there's NO reason to do it unless you wanna hack it, which I dont like doing...

 

[kristoffer4]

Agree! The same is the situation here in Denmark.

 

[The General]

How can they prove someone is importing a DVD that they actually bought (i.e. they didn't rent from Netflix)? If you can answer that question, I'll be impressed because that is the very question that prevents any secure DVD copy scheme from making it into iTunes or any other program for that matter.

Yep, they don't know. And even if they DID, I would still use Handbrake or Mac The Ripper ... I wouldn't want iTunes DRMifying my rips.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I've wondered if it would be possible to sell the AppleTV on a BTO sytem, so you can configure all you like. $199 gets you the unit as it is today, $299 gets you the unit with either a DVR or BR drive and $399 gets you the whole shebang. I'm willing to bet you couldn't keep the $400 units in stock.

There is the problem for many TV wishers- a belief that Apple could somehow build in a Blue Ray drive, DVR hardware and a hard drive(s) large enough to satisfy the DVR crowd, as well as grant a bunch of the other major wishes, and be able to make the Apple-desired profit margin with a $399 price point.

I've previously tried to estimate a "whole shebang" TV based upon lowest retail costs of individual pieces and parts, discounted for volume buying, and lumping in the software that Apple would code to run it all nicely for free and got $899 on the low end (Apple pricing estimate).

How many would buy the "whole shebang" TV for $899?

It's easy to make wishes, but wishes get reconsidered as soon as realistic pricing is applied to them. Note a fair amount of wishers even in this thread are looking for a lower price point on the current hardware.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

That would be difficult to do short of rewriting the DMCA law. That law makes it illegal to break the copy protection of a DVD for _ANY_ reason. Fair use doesn't enter into it, you simply are not allowed to break the encryption on a DVD. That isn't to say there aren't a lot of people that do it anyway, but Apple would not sell software that helped people break the law.

Now whether or not the DMCA is a good law or not...

Obviously, you haven't kept up with what other commercial companies are doing. Apple is missing the boat. Read: http://www.cepro.com/article/print/is_your_dvd_server_legal_manufacturers_say_yes/

You can do this via the latest software update.

I'm really tired of the countless people who think they understand Apple's products better than the company. The AppleTV was made for a specific purpose, not to be an all-in-one, play and do everything I want it to because I want it to box. I for one would be pretty disappointed if they added DVR functionality or a Bluray drive because I don't need these devices.

My biggest gripe with Apple at the moment regarding iTunes/AppleTV would be the inability to upgrade SD TV show purchases to HD.

I'm really tired of fanboys who think Apple can do no wrong that and that Apple somehow magically knows what the consumer wants better than the consumer himself/herself does. Oh wait. You have your own whining in the next paragraph of something you WISH Apple would offer but doesn't.... Just how do you think that makes your prior paragraph look?

Apple clearly does NOT have a clue what people want or they wouldn't be calling it a hobby device; they wouldn't have called 1.x a failure to listen to the consumer; they wouldn't keep adding features over time and they wouldn't be asking consumers surveys about what they want. Get over yourself already.

With only 1 wish all I really want is the ability to purchase HD versions of movies. The AppleTV has no shortage of issues that need to be resolved, but most of them can be resolved with an installation of NitoTV and USB flash. The type of content being offered is something that only Apple can change though.

I am against the inclusion of a Blu-ray or DVD drive. It would destroy the whole point of having a digital media player in the living room. Discs are dead as far as I am concerned, all hail the digital download future!

How would having a drive on the unit destroy its ability to play stored or streamed content??? Instead, it could actually be used to rip CD/DVDs into your iTunes library WHILE you watch the movie. Other systems (quoted in the link at the top of the page) do EXACTLY that and it's why I say Apple is missing the boat. If you can't do it there, you certainly should be able to add the DVDs to iTunes FROM iTunes. Not all DVDs are encrypted and there are licensing and fair use rulings to allow those companies above to sell their movie on a hard drive products and so Apple looks limited by comparison. I say the real reason they don't add that capability is that they don't want you buying and ripping DVDs for $5.99 at WalMart with all kinds of extras and Dolby 5.1 sound. They want you to buy their $10 iTunes version that has Dolby Pro Logic (stereo encoded) and probably has inferior video to boot. THAT is the real reason they don't add it to ATV.

With only 1 wish all I really want is the ability to purchase HD versions of movies.

I agree that you SHOULD be able to buy HD movies, not just rent them. With a large hard drive addition (I'm looking into getting two 2TB drives for my PowerMac server that serves my ATV units), there's plenty of space to own HD content. I don't really want Blu-Ray because it's $25-30 a movie and it means creating ANOTHER disc library (I'm just now ripping all my DVDs so I don't need to go searching through cabinets of discs to find the movie I want and then have to watch FBI warnings, advertisements, animated menus, etc. when I just want to watch the darn movie already!)

For those that say they don't want to buy 720P now because 1080P will probably be available from Apple in the future, well Apple could sell 720P for a LOT less than Blu-Ray and you could 'upgrade' to 1080P versions some day in the future. My projector right now is only 720P so Blu-Ray wouldn't make much difference (save compression) and the 720P rentals look better than ANY HD on cable already. I'd be perfectly happy to buy some 720P movies for now if they were in the $15 range.

 

[Tilpots]

There is the problem for many TV wishers- a belief that Apple could somehow build in a Blue Ray drive, DVR hardware and a hard drive(s) large enough to satisfy the DVR crowd, as well as grant a bunch of the other major wishes, and be able to make the Apple-desired profit margin with a $399 price point.

I've previously tried to estimate a "whole shebang" TV based upon lowest retail costs of individual pieces and parts, discounted for volume buying, and lumping in the software that Apple would code to run it all nicely for free and got $899 on the low end (Apple pricing estimate).

How many would buy the "whole shebang" TV for $899?

It's easy to make wishes, but wishes get reconsidered as soon as realistic pricing is applied to them. Note a fair amount of wishers even in this thread are looking for a lower price point on the current hardware.

You seem to think Apple is a bargain basement company. Last time I checked, their prices are higher than most on just about every thing they sell, comparing similar specs with competitors. They are known as a high end hardware company.

DVD or BD could be BTO options (not that I'm for this) and HDD space is easy to add on. Plus, if people are forced to buy 3 products (media extender, DVD/BD player and DVR), shouldn't Apple want to get 100% of the buy?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

You seem to think Apple is a bargain basement company. Last time I checked, their prices are higher than most on just about every thing they sell, comparing similar specs with competitors. They are known as a high end hardware company.

DVD or BD could be BTO options (not that I'm for this) and HDD space is easy to add on. Plus, if people are forced to buy 3 products (media extender, DVD/BD player and DVR), shouldn't Apple want to get 100% of the buy?

I don't know what you're talking about. My point is that Apple ISN'T a bargain basement company- that the lowest I could possibly see a "full shebang" TV price point is $899. More likely that if all of the major wishes were granted, it would probably bump up into $999+ territory per Apple pricing. And then it would face "but I can get a whole Macbook for that" or "I can get 2 MacMinis", etc.