Are all of you coders or artists?

[Cybernanga]

I started off in Print, moved to DTP in the early days, have been an Art Director at an Ad Agency, moved into webdesign & development, and am now into Mac Development using AppleScript Studio.

There is a big difference in mindset between print and web. There is also a difference in mindset between web dev and app dev, but not as large as between print and web.

Print job's don't have to interact with the user in any real way, (yes there is is interaction between a print job and the reader, but it's a different sort of interaction) and things tend to remain mainly static, where as on the web there are many more options for interactivity.

It takes a while to become proficient in any of the fields, and there definately has to be some aptitude present in the individual, but if you like what you do and are willing to put in the effort, you can become proficient.

I personnaly enjoy Mac development the most, as I get far more feedback from users of my app's than I ever did from the users/viewers of webpages, business cards or billboards that I created.

 

[iGary]

I write stuff and take pictures for a living, but when it comes to code and or artistic stuff like design - forget it.

 

[MontyZ]

I am a graphic designer that is also trained in PHP/MySQL/Linux in which I've devleoped several commercial online applications.

"Creative" is fairly relative, because you could probably argue that watching TV is a creative process, but, it really isn't, and I don't really think coding is a primarily "creative" process like design.

I think coding requires cleverness, technical intelligence, and the same types of abilities as someone who can speak several languages -- able to parse and translate ideas into code that performs certain processes and functions. I guess you could call this Logically Creative. But, the process of designing something visually is very different and requires more creative processes than coding.

I code and design daily and find them to be very different. Designing visually can be a more organic process, while coding is very exacting and logical. I find coding a nice break from design, and design a nice break from coding because they both are very different types of tasks.

I'm proud to be both a programmer AND designer, and think they are both equally important in web development, but, very different approaches in processes.

Just my opinion.

 

[MontyZ]

I've never believed that any of this stuff is mutually exclusive. Being able to do one thing doesn't exclude you from doing anything else.

Well, I disagree because I do web dev for a living and frequenlty see programmers doing design...badly, and designers programming...badly. Just because you can do one thing doesn't mean you can do the other just as well.

It's rare for one person to be able to code well (left brain) and design well (right brain) ... like me. Some people are truly ambidextrous though.

 

[scem0]

I'm more of a coder than a designer, but I'm going to an art school to work on that .

scem0

 

[PlaceofDis]

i write poetry and personal essays, sometimes i do some fiction too....
occasionally i do some drawings as well....

thanks for asking!

 

[dornoforpyros]

Well, I disagree because I do web dev for a living and frequenlty see programmers doing design...badly, and designers programming...badly. Just because you can do one thing doesn't mean you can do the other just as well.

It's rare for one person to be able to code well (left brain) and design well (right brain) ... like me. Some people are truly ambidextrous though.

am I the only person who doesn't really buy that left brain right brain theory? I know plenty of coders who can design and I know plenty of designers who can code.

Is this true of all people? Absolutly not. But I think perhaps the devide isn't as great as people would like to believe.

 

[jeremy.king]

Not with websites, I now have to hire somebody to do the three pages, grrrr.

Better idea. Hire someone to come implement a content management system of your choice (literally hundreds to choose from). Provide a nicely designed template that they can convert to HTML/CSS/etc, and after installation you can simply use web forms to control the content without having to know one lick of code. More bang for the buck than paying some script kiddie to create three HTML pages for you.

Need help, contact me

Good thing my "lack of creativity" has done me well so far since I am an IT consultant ("coder").

 

[Cooknn]

find / -name "stupid people" -exec rm -rf {} \;

LMAO

 

[jeremy.king]

LMAO

You're the second MR geek to notice

 

[Cooknn]

You're the second MR geek to notice

Somewhere deep down inside the code for Spotlight is find (with some grep). Well maybe not so deep

 

[angelneo]

Quite a number of people seems to be able to "code" and "design" at the same time. I believe that although we all can code or design to a certain degree, to be able to excel in them is another different thing. I mean coding just doesn't mean just to be able to create applications and programs. People who do well in those thinks about efficiency of your code, optimization, usability, stress test, security and scalability. I have seen a fair share of poor website coders who did not even handle quotes on their form submission, or the code runs so slowly when under stress, or when the database becomes a bottleneck due to too many calls to retrieve data. We all can code but how well do you code?

Design is another different arena by itself but I believe veterans here can explain it more than I can.

I too can code and design at the same time but I consider my designing skills raw and rudimentary so I would be more of a programmer as of now

 

[MontyZ]

am I the only person who doesn't really buy that left brain right brain theory?

It's not a theory. The left and right sides of the brain handle different types of functions and thought processes. It's a medical fact. Unless you believe in "Intelligent Design," which isn't based on fact at all.

 

[MontyZ]

Quite a number of people seems to be able to "code" and "design" at the same time. I believe that although we all can code or design to a certain degree, to be able to excel in them is another different thing.

Agreed. Someone will probably be better at one thing than the other, and not always equally excel at both. My coding skills are above-average, but, I know I'm not a programming genius. If I had to bet a million dollars on what I'd do better, I'd pick design. But, I've met a lot of professional day-job programmers, and am shocked to learn how many gaps there are in their skills.

P.S. I love your avatar, by the way.

 

[dornoforpyros]

It's not a theory. The left and right sides of the brain handle different types of functions and thought processes. It's a medical fact. Unless you believe in "Intelligent Design," which isn't based on fact at all.

I dunno, it just seems to me that this whole left brain vs right brain thing is spewed off by people all the time as if it's the be-all and end all of creative vs logical. I guess I've just come across 2 many people who can do both(myself included) that I can't really put alot of weight into it. As for "intelligent design" I'm an athiest thank you very much. I believe we all decended from monkeys

But back to the topic at hand, it just seems to me to be a cop-out for people who don't feel like learning a new trade. I think the best argument here comes from Friends of all places "There was a time when all the scientist and the most brilliant minds on earth believed the earth was flat"

So although I do put my beliefs in science I'm always whilling to accept that it's wrong. I mean isn't their that other theory that a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly because of it's shape? Obviosly a bee does fly no matter what science says it shouldn't. let's face it, science isn't 100%

 

[MontyZ]

But back to the topic at hand, it just seems to me to be a cop-out for people who don't feel like learning a new trade.

So although I do put my beliefs in science I'm always whilling to accept that it's wrong. I mean isn't their that other theory that a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly because of it's shape? Obviosly a bee does fly no matter what science says it shouldn't. let's face it, science isn't 100%

I don't think that people are ONLY right- or left-brained, we all use both sides, but, it is pretty well researched that there is a difference between the types of processes that each side of the brain handles. There are instruments that can detect electrical and chemical activity in the brain, so, they can see where things are happening based on the type of tasks being performed.

Sure, we can all learn something new, but, not always! That's why some people are smarter than others or more talented at certain tasks than others. How do you explain a 7-year child who can play the violin better than an adult who has studied for many years? Innate ability does exist. Some people are just "naturally" better at some types of tasks than others, because their brains developed differently.

I guess the fallacy in the right-brain/left-brain argument is that it's THAT isolated: creativity is ONLY on the right and logic ONLY on the left. But, that's not totally true. We use a bit of both for nearly all tasks, but, more happens on one side or the other depending on the task. Now I'm just starting to confuse myself!

 

[dornoforpyros]

I guess the fallacy in the right-brain/left-brain argument is that it's THAT isolated: creativity is ONLY on the right and logic ONLY on the left. But, that's not totally true. We use a bit of both for nearly all tasks, but, more happens on one side or the other depending on the task. Now I'm just starting to confuse myself!

ahh than I guess we agree a bit more than we thought we did. I guess what I'm trying to say is pretty much what you just said, this great divide between the sides is not as strong as most ppl seem to think

 

[mnstr_trd_sd]

i do both.

i believe that coding is artistry. the web is just a baby, it's a completely brand new media. look how far it's come along since the government released it to the public. imagine what it will be able to do in 50 more years.

i am one of those people that has had formal education in all disiplines (ie: print, web, video, 3D), and to compare each of them and their workflows is like comparing an elephant to a monkey. you can't say one is better than the other, and to do so is just plain ignorant.

the point is, some people are really good at web, some are good at print, you can't say that print is better than web because you don't understand the workflow. i've seen people that could flow code out of their fingers like water in perfect in form and function. have you ever read the HTML that comes out of a program like Word or frontpage? it is not professional, web designers know what i mean. also, i do know the effort it takes to create a fully functional label in all it's simplicity.

i am a graphic designer established in print that loves to code, edit and animate. keep your mind open to different disiplines, and respect them for what they do.

 

[ChicoWeb]

I am a professional graphic designer. I can not code. Nor have I met anyone who could do both on a "professional" level. That doesn't mean they aren't out there.

 

[Vader]

I can't code or do much design.
I just love messing around on my mac!

Making icons is what I do.

 

[jsw]

If designing websites does one need a good understanding of html, CSS, Flash and the differences in browsers?

As far as HTML, CSS, and Flash are concerned, I'd say that you probably don't need much if any knowledge as long as you choose good software to build your pages. Knowing those areas - or at least having a passing understanding - can do nothing but help, though.

Unfortunately, you do need to understand the differences between browsers and, more to the point, understand that there are differences - with some many browsers out there and frequent changes to many of them, you can never be too sure what will and won't work. Even when a page is "perfect" (for example, if it passes verification here), it might not display perfectly everywhere.

This, though, shall pass. The older browsers were written, at least for the most part, relatively long ago when all of this was new. Newer browsers are becoming much more standardized.

One new thing to watch for (it's supported in many browser to some extent now and Firefox will truly support it in version 1.1) is SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) - a format exported by many of the apps you're likely familiar with (i.e., Illustrator, etc.). Conceptually, it's a free open-standard version of Flash, less powerful in some ways but quite nice in that it allows for vector-based art (lines, objects, etc., not just pixel images) to be displayed. While it's still not the static medium of print, it will let you design pages in a way that's more likely to suit you - once, of course, those pesky coders write the apps to let you do so. Few have paid much attention to it, but mark my words - two years from now, it will be everywhere, and web sites will be better as a result.

 

[dornoforpyros]

but mark my words - two years from now, it will be everywhere, and web sites will be better as a result.

hmmm I seem to recall hearing about this 2 years ago and hearing the same thing. I'm certanly not saying it'll never happen because I think everyone realizes it's the way to go but the roll out seems to be slllooooww

 

[MontyZ]

hmmm I seem to recall hearing about this 2 years ago and hearing the same thing. I'm certanly not saying it'll never happen because I think everyone realizes it's the way to go but the roll out seems to be slllooooww

True, it seems that the longer something "new" has been around, the slower progress becomes. In the early days of the web, there was something groundbreaking like every month! It was totally crazy. Now, it takes a lot longer for standards to make their way through the behemoth that is now Web Development. Even Flash took about 2-3 years to REALLY take off.

It'll be interesting to see how much the SVG stuff is adopted and how fast. I've read some things about it, but, haven't played with it at all. It's a very interesting concept. I suppose it would allow the ability for entire web pages scalable, almost like a PDF file that only contains vector graphics.

The two biggest factors that could stand in it's way are Speed and Search Engines. I discourage clients from using Flash on their sites unless it is really going to be an enhancement, because it's slower to download and more expensive to update. And any text in there won't be indexed by search engines. What I've found is that a lot of web shops are streamlining their designs and sites, because after the ooo-ahhh stage of Flash and fancy sites, most companies are realizing that a graphically-rich site can be a biyotch to update and maintain. Less is more.

But, if SVG can overcome the obstacles that Flash still hasn't, it might get adopted faster. Otherwise, I have a feeling it'll be a novelty technology used by a small minority of sites. But this is my opinion based on what I've read, not actual experience using this technology.

 

[mnstr_trd_sd]

As far as HTML, CSS, and Flash are concerned, I'd say that you probably don't need much if any knowledge as long as you choose good software to build your pages. Knowing those areas - or at least having a passing understanding - can do nothing but help, though.

I completely disagree, HTML is the basis of every website, CSS builds upon HTML and requires at least a good understanding of HTML, Flash uses action Scripting which is a totally different style of code unless you are only using it for frame by frame animation or tweening.

I dont know about you but it took me at least a month of classes each, 4 hours a day of theory and hands on building just to get the jist of how to create a web site properly according to the regulations of the W3C. Then much more time researching it on my own.

Sure anyone could make a website, click here go there, all you have to do is export as HTML. But are you doing it correctly? Is the website functional? Does it guide the user instead of repel. How long does it take to load and on what connection? Is it resolution independant? Does it cater to the dissabled? Yes, there are laws for making all sites accessible for poeple with disabilities, even the blind.

Have you ever sat down and compared the code from let's say Word or Frontpage to code from a professionally created page. Would that page look good on every type of browser with no noticable change. Not everyone has the newest browser or fastest machine or even a monitor larger that 15 inches.

I'm sorry if it seems as though I'm getting pretty heated about the subject, it's just that this is my lifes trade. To execute a proper website takes planning, knowledge of design do and don'ts, and most importantly the habbits of the average web surfer. IMO to design a site in any other way is like going to a regular doctor for a heart transplant when you should go to a surgeon.

To usderstand more about what I'm talking about and the theory of creating
properly functional websites, here are a couple of books i strongly suggest.

Designing Web Usability by Jakob Nielson (AIGA selected book)
Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug

You don't have to be a professional to create a "fully functional website", but if you're planning to make money on one or even create them professionally, good knowledge of the theory of websites and the use of buildingblocks (HTML, CSS, Dreamweaver, Flash) and how to implement them successfully in indeed necessary.

Maybe I took this a little to the extreme but thats my 2 cents. Sorry.

 

[jsw]

I completely disagree, HTML is the basis of every website, CSS builds upon HTML and requires at least a good understanding of HTML, Flash uses action Scripting which is a totally different style of code unless you are only using it for frame by frame animation or tweening.

I dont know about you but it took me at least a month of classes each, 4 hours a day of theory and hands on building just to get the jist of how to create a web site properly according to the regulations of the W3C. Then much more time researching it on my own.

Sure anyone could make a website, click here go there, all you have to do is export as HTML. But are you doing it correctly? Is the website functional? Does it guide the user instead of repel. How long does it take to load and on what connection? Is it resolution independant? Does it cater to the dissabled? Yes, there are laws for making all sites accessible for poeple with disabilities, even the blind.

Have you ever sat down and compared the code from let's say Word or Frontpage to code from a professionally created page. Would that page look good on every type of browser with no noticable change. Not everyone has the newest browser or fastest machine or even a monitor larger that 15 inches.

I'm sorry if it seems as though I'm getting pretty heated about the subject, it's just that this is my lifes trade. To execute a proper website takes planning, knowledge of design do and don'ts, and most importantly the habbits of the average web surfer. IMO to design a site in any other way is like going to a regular doctor for a heart transplant when you should go to a surgeon.

To usderstand more about what I'm talking about and the theory of creating
properly functional websites, here are a couple of books i strongly suggest.

Designing Web Usability by Jakob Nielson (AIGA selected book)
Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug

You don't have to be a professional to create a "fully functional website", but if you're planning to make money on one or even create them professionally, good knowledge of the theory of websites and the use of buildingblocks (HTML, CSS, Dreamweaver, Flash) and how to implement them successfully in indeed necessary.

Maybe I took this a little to the extreme but thats my 2 cents. Sorry.

I actually agree with you that an understanding of the fundamentals is important and helpful - I just meant that it is not literally required. Many, many people use apps like Frontpage to develop sites. I completely agree that they aren't typically exceptional... but they work, and many look just fine.

The main points you mentioned are dead on, but most of them don't exactly involve a working knowledge of HTML - they involve a deep understanding of how to design websites, which arguable goes as far beyond HTML as the understanding of good print layout goes beyond PostScript. Speaking of which, a deep knowledge of PostScript (since forgotten) helped me do a bang-up job of superior rendition in a previous company - but most people just hit "Print", and it works.

Still, for someone who wants to make a living this way, knowing the tech is a big plus (but one which will erode as tools improve).