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Are all of you coders or artists?

dornoforpyros said:
hmmm I seem to recall hearing about this 2 years ago and hearing the same thing. :rolleyes: I'm certanly not saying it'll never happen because I think everyone realizes it's the way to go but the roll out seems to be slllooooww
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Agreed. I've been waiting for it since around 2001.

However, Firefox 1.1 is going to support it natively (beta support looks good), Safari supports it natively but somewhat awkwardly, and my opinion - worth nothing, likely - is that we're on the cusp of a breakout. SVG 1.1 support is pretty universal - esp. after Firefox - SVG 1.2 is a leap ahead and support is coming, and the main reason I expect a surge soon is that Firefox is going to support mixing SVG directly in with HTML, as opposed to the current requirement that the SVG files be referenced externally. Having it all in one doc means you can fetch images and text, etc., all in one file with one connection - vastly faster for those pages that don't actually require photographs, and somewhat faster even with those. Plus, it's resolution independent, a big thing as screens get much larger and, in places like phones and PDAs, smaller.

Want to get rich? Write a HTML/SVG app that seamlessly merges the two. I'm too lazy to do so. ;)
 
Actually I've come across one exceptional webpage done with frontpage.
http://www.forcetendesign.com

Yes I was shocked too see frontpage listed under his software and not dreamweaver. But take a look at his source:
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">


So I guess it IS possible to use frontpage to make something coool. I just didn't think so.
 
dornoforpyros said:
Actually I've come across one exceptional webpage done with frontpage.
http://www.forcetendesign.com

Yes I was shocked too see frontpage listed under his software and not dreamweaver. But take a look at his source:
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">


So I guess it IS possible to use frontpage to make something coool. I just didn't think so.
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Well, to be fair, it's basically just a wrapper around Flash.
 
dornoforpyros said:
yes but compared to the ussual website made in frontpage you have to admit that's impressive.
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Again, true - but the actual Frontpage portion is trivially small. Macromedia is the tool of choice for that site - Frontpage's contribution seems to be about 1KB or less of HTML to set up the frames around the Flash presentation.

I dig the site - really - I just didn't want people thinking that Frontpage could be made to make it without extensive use of Macromedia products.
 
jsw said:
The main points you mentioned are dead on, but most of them don't exactly involve a working knowledge of HTML - they involve a deep understanding of how to design websites, which arguable goes as far beyond HTML as the understanding of good print layout goes beyond PostScript.
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Exactly! This reminds of the early days of desktop publishing sofware. With a copy of Aldus Pagemaker, suddenly EVERYONE was a designer! And now it's the same with web development. But just knowing a certain technology does not a good designer (or coder) make. There are fundamental principles at work in creating a visually-appealing and intuitively usable website. You can accomplish this in Notepad or in Dreamweaver. It's really the end result that matters most. Technology is the tool used to get the result you want, it's not the total solution.
 
In regards to my previous post. First let me apologize if I seemed a little heated and a bit to full of my self. It was really late after a long 10 hour work day and somtimes I just get a little caught up in the moment.

I have always strived to learn what i consider my trade correctly. I didn't mean to bash anyone elses skills or try to imply that my skills are greater than anyone elses.

I was just trying to stress the importance of usability and workflow, key factors put upon me as I was mentored and taught.

Thanks RacerX

;)
 
The ability for a designer to understand the constraints of html, css, browsers, and bandwidth. While still being able to create a beautiful, fast loading, easy to use, web interface is what truly makes a web designer. I pride myself as a web designer because I have the ability to see what layouts can work within the code. What designs are functionally intuitive yet at the same time savy and catching.

To be able to design for the web, the thought process must be on multiple levels, both graphically, and code based. True webdesigners are not a designer or a coder, they are a hybrid of both, and when you see their web creations, it's clear as day.
 
dornoforpyros said:
agreed
Click to expand...

yeah, don't believe anything in that page is done FrontPage except for the lines of code that say, "hey im an HTML page", "put the flash here and make it this big", and hey im an HTML page and this is where i end." ... and why even do that if they can be written by hand? code examples are all over the web and can easily be sampled from (for placement) if one is too lazy to write them.

anyways ... the whole 2advanced look is very dated and is easily reproduced with multiple pre-written Flash code, templates, and texures. every kid that thinks he's a designer has their 'me too' Flash site now ... **** templates and shotty code.

so to answer this guys question: im a digital artist ... what does that mean? i can draw and i can write (some) script. i don't really care about color mixing and the printing process, but i need to know about those things when i take my project to print and i want metallic inks, black on black, and die cuts ... unless i don't care about my print. i don't really care about coding but i need to know how to code if i want my wicked cool Flash site to have an XML database ... unless i don't care about up to date information or receiving a clients order.

some people can 'see' code; i cannot. i hate code, but i still know how to use it.


peace | neut
 
MrSugar said:
True webdesigners are not a designer or a coder, they are a hybrid of both.
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Not really. Unless you are a freelance web designer, most shops don't have one person doing all the design and coding, and this doesn't define a "web designer." Sure, one person can do an awesome job designing and coding a website, but often these tasks are done by several "specialists" if you work for a web development company. And each of those people are often extremely good at what they do and together create awesome sites.
 
MontyZ said:
Not really. Unless you are a freelance web designer, most shops don't have one person doing all the design and coding, and this doesn't define a "web designer." Sure, one person can do an awesome job designing and coding a website, but often these tasks are done by several "specialists" if you work for a web development company. And each of those people are often extremely good at what they do and together create awesome sites.
Click to expand...

At my job, we call ourselves "Team Kickass"... because... well we're that awesome.
 
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