Are the 2017 Macbook Pro's as bad as people say?

[nyy13251]

Good Morning!
I am starting Grad School this Summer and the deal I made with myself was that if/when I get in, I treat myself to a new MacBook. I have a 2008 MacBook that sits under my bed and is pretty much done. Can't even hold a charge!

I found out I got into school in October and since then, told family that for birthday/holiday gifts, all I want is Apple Gift Cards (also want to get a new phone). I figure that since I will be in school, a MacBook Pro will be a solid choice but I keep reading about issues with the keyboard and the touch bar (how useless it is). I was planning on getting the one with the touch bar. It seemed cool.

I would be using it for the basics: Research/Internet, writing papers, studying, social media etc.

I am hoping that Apple comes out with a minor refresh right before I purchase it in June.

Would I be making a mistake by buying a MacBook Pro with Touch bar?

Thanks!

 

[andy9l]

Objectively, they are the fastest and most feature-rich portable Macs you can buy today if you want a portable Mac. If you don't want a portable Mac, there are better options - there always has been, and always will be.

The Touch Bar is objectively more useful than a standard Fn row. Whether or not individuals like its interactivity/features is a separate subjective matter. But fundamentally it does add to the functionality of the Mac.

 

[Glmnet1]

I suggest you try the keyboard in an Apple Store. Some love it some hate it.

IMO it's a great device but I'm worried by the reports here on MR that the keyboard break easily and the repair is quite expensive.

You said you'll wait until June to buy it and I think it's a great idea. There is a possibility that they will improve the reliability of the keyboard and the processors might get a substantial upgrade by going 2->4 cores on the 13" and 4->6 cores on the 15". It's also generally a better value for your money when you buy near release date because your device will be supported for a longer time.

 

[JSway]

I picked up one considering all the feedback regarding the keyboard. I needed a new laptop since I just started school again this spring. My 2008 unibody MacBook is too old, and I couldn’t wait until June or the next refresh.

I’ll pick up AppleCare as well before the 60 days.

 

[nyy13251]

I picked up one considering all the feedback regarding the keyboard. I needed a new laptop since I just started school again this spring. My 2008 unibody MacBook is too old, and I couldn’t wait until June or the next refresh.

I’ll pick up AppleCare as well before the 60 days.

How do you like it? Are the keyboard issues covered under warranty with Apple Care? I tried typing on it and it seemed fine. I feel like most things, I would get used to it after a few days.
[doublepost=1516977456][/doublepost]

Objectively, they are the fastest and most feature-rich portable Macs you can buy today if you want a portable Mac. If you don't want a portable Mac, there are better options - there always has been, and always will be.

The Touch Bar is objectively more useful than a standard Fn row. Whether or not individuals like its interactivity/features is a separate subjective matter. But fundamentally it does add to the functionality of the Mac.

It seems like a cool feature to me. If it works, cool!

 

[smirking]

I am hoping that Apple comes out with a minor refresh right before I purchase it in June.

It's never a bad thing to be so lucky as to time your purchases so that you end up buying right at the start of a release cycle, but I wouldn't hold out if you need a new machine. A refresh will be faster than the older ones, but not dramatically faster. I also wouldn't expect the keyboard to become flawless either. I'd assume they're slightly improved, but there's only so much that can be done to address the issues that people are having with the keyboard. For the record, my keyboard performs mostly fine. I get occasional problems with certain keys repeating, but it's temporary.

I upgraded from a mid-2012 that I fitted with a SSD drive up to a maxed out 2016 MBP with Touchbar. My MBP is faster for sure, but not so much faster that I couldn't imagine ever going back to my 2012. If I had to return to my 2012, it'd be an inconvenience, not a tradgedy. The main reason I upgraded was so I could use a 5K external monitor. I would have waited one additional year to avoid getting the first release of a new MBP design had it not been for how badly I wanted a 5K quality external monitor.

 

[nyy13251]

It's never a bad thing to be so lucky as to time your purchases so that you end up buying right at the start of a release cycle, but I wouldn't hold out if you need a new machine. A refresh will be faster than the older ones, but not dramatically faster. I also wouldn't expect the keyboard to become flawless either. I'd assume they're slightly improved, but there's only so much that can be done to address the issues that people are having with the keyboard. For the record, my keyboard performs mostly fine. I get occasional problems with certain keys repeating, but it's temporary.

I upgraded from a mid-2012 that I fitted with a SSD drive up to a maxed out 2016 MBP with Touchbar. My MBP is faster for sure, but not so much faster that I couldn't imagine ever going back to my 2012. If I had to return to my 2012, it'd be an inconvenience, not a tradgedy. The main reason I upgraded was so I could use a 5K external monitor. I would have waited one additional year to avoid getting the first release of a new MBP design had it not been for how badly I wanted a 5K quality external monitor.

Yeah, I am in no rush for one until school starts mid-July. So if they announced something in June for a late June release, I can hold off a few extra weeks. I can even use my fiancé's MacBook air for a little. But ideally, I would like to get it in June so I can play around with it for a little and get whatever programs I will need for school, which I think is just Office.

 

[cmeisenzahl]

Good Morning!
I am starting Grad School this Summer and the deal I made with myself was that if/when I get in, I treat myself to a new MacBook. I have a 2008 MacBook that sits under my bed and is pretty much done. Can't even hold a charge!

I found out I got into school in October and since then, told family that for birthday/holiday gifts, all I want is Apple Gift Cards (also want to get a new phone). I figure that since I will be in school, a MacBook Pro will be a solid choice but I keep reading about issues with the keyboard and the touch bar (how useless it is). I was planning on getting the one with the touch bar. It seemed cool.

I would be using it for the basics: Research/Internet, writing papers, studying, social media etc.

I am hoping that Apple comes out with a minor refresh right before I purchase it in June.

Would I be making a mistake by buying a MacBook Pro with Touch bar?

Thanks!

I'm not convinced the Touch Bar is worth the money, but I would like Touch ID on the MBP. Anyway, I bought my son a new 2017 13" MBP with 8GB/256GB over the summer. He's a CompSci student. It's been fantastic. Fast, light, and a beautiful display. I'd buy it again.

 

[nyy13251]

I'm not convinced the Touch Bar is worth the money, but I would like Touch ID on the MBP. Anyway, I bought my son a new 2017 13" MBP with 8GB/256GB over the summer. He's a CompSci student. It's been fantastic. Fast, light, and a beautiful display. I'd buy it again.

I will have to look into it again and see if it is worth the price. I am saving up for both a MacBook pro and an Iphone. So maybe I would ditch the touchbar. But I will see. I think the like the fact it is an extra feature but I will go into Apple again and play with it. See if it makes a big difference.

 

[andy9l]

Bear in mind the Touch Bar models tend to offer better performance under sustained load due to the different CPUs and cooling systems inside - it's not just the bar.

Based on your use case, this probably shouldn't impact your decision - but it's worth being aware of.

 

[ilian92]

The computer is perfectly fine, whichever model you end up choosing. Touch bar or not, it's a great machine and you'll love the size of it, since it's a laptop after all. Battery life has been great, performance too. I'm very happy with the 15''. Keyboard has been a non issue for me, touch bar is fine. Nothing game changing, but not really worse compared to the standard function keys either. As you yourself said, just takes a couple of days to get used to. I don't think you'll regret the purchase.

 

[BrennanWDavis]

I recently purchased a new MacBook Pro, but without the Touchbar. The Touchbar felt like more of a gimmick than anything. I am in love with my MacBook, and super happy with the decision to avoid the TouchBar.

 

[TonyK]

The Touch Bar is objectively more useful than a standard Fn row. Whether or not individuals like its interactivity/features is a separate subjective matter. But fundamentally it does add to the functionality of the Mac

There were several reasons I went with a new in box 2015 rather than a 2016 MBP last May. Not wanting the TB was just one of them. Never thought I would care for it and have opted to not dwell on not having it.

Yeah, I am in no rush for one until school starts mid-July. So if they announced something in June for a late June release, I can hold off a few extra weeks. I can even use my fiancé's MacBook air for a little. But ideally, I would like to get it in June so I can play around with it for a little and get whatever programs I will need for school, which I think is just Office.

If it were me, I'd get the current model as most production issues should be resolved by now. A new model may mean new production issues to be resolved. Get AppleCare+ and then setup and get to know your new system. If you do opt for the TB make sure you are comfortable and use it. People who have it and use it like it. I'm ancient so I still prefer the Fn keys.

 

[Fishrrman]

The 2017 MBP's are impressive... BUT... there are problems with their "robustness".

That is to say, many folks have been having problems with the keyboards -- usually one or more keys stick or otherwise stop working.

But... the repair not a simple matter of just replacing the keyboard. On the new design, the ENTIRE TOPCASE must be replaced. The cost runs $700+ -- to fix ONE key!

So far, Apple is "picking up the cost" on machines still within the 1-year warranty or for those who have AppleCare. But what happens, say, three-and-one-half years down the line, and a key or two breaks on you?

Many folks will tell you they've had no problems.
But others will say that they have had them.

Suggestion:
Go to an Apple Store (or perhaps a BestBuy), and check not only the 2017 MBP's, but see if there's a 2015-design 15" MBP to type on as well. Apple still makes and sells the 2015 15" MBP, so you should be able to find one to demo.

Type a little on each one, to see how it suits you.

The other advantage of the 2015 design is that they retain a "full complement" of legacy ports. Some discount this -- I consider it a big selling point.

If it's a 13" size you want, you can still get the 2015 MBP 13" models from Apple as Apple-refurbished, with the standard Apple warranty and eligible for AppleCare.

 

[Falhófnir]

Positives:
+ Really svelte and portable design
+ Most powerful MacBooks ever
+ Better cooling system (less throttling) than ever before
+ 2-4x versatile super high bandwidth ports
+ Excellent speakers
+ Brilliant high resolution, high colour accuracy screen

Negatives:
- Dongles required
- Keyboard failure rate seems to be high. Requires (potentially expensive out of warranty) top case replacement to fix
- No SD card slot (I treat this separately to other ports as USB C isn't a direct replacement for it)

So you see there's a lot to like, its just primarily the niggling issue of USB C/ Thunderbolt 3 adapters and the potentially bigger sticking point of the keyboard being prone to failing.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

A MBP is quite overkill for your use, but if you're thinking of getting something for longevity then I can see why you'd want a Mac over a Windows computer.

Nobody knows the extent of any inherent problems, all computers have inherent problems, the keyboard is definitely the case with the 2016+ devices. But it is better than previous screen failing, or GPU dying which would render the computer entirely useless. Also nobody knows what Apple will do in the long run, currently a simple shim under the problem key tends to fix the problem. If it's under the 1 year warranty most people are demanding an entire new top case as they want it to work without hacks, which is fair enough. After this point I'd imagine Apple will fix the problem with the cheapest method for the customer, or if things prove a widespread design flaw at time of manufacture then there'll be a recall.

The 2017 is going to be the 'best' machine you can get in terms of performance, and you are right to wait until you need it to buy it. There may be an update in the summer, or more likely they'll move back to a fall release, nobody really knows what they'll do of course so don't buy it until you actually need it.

2015 is still a solid device, it's older of course but performance wise you wouldn't notice it. If the ports are something to you then do consider it, but also consider how those ports could be a pain if you have it for 5+ years, and you're using adapters for everything.

I would recommend you go and look at some Windows alternatives too, given your requirements you're paying a lot for an Apple computer that you won't fully utilise. So check some out as you could save quite a few quid. People rate the Dell XPS quite highly, go look at one and you may be surprised or it may re-confirm your want of a Mac, but it'll stop you regretting or second guessing your choice.

As to the touchbar it isn't obviously useless, it adds functionality to an otherwise static key strip. Instead of having a dedicated key for changing the keyboard brightness (Which you may use twice a year?), you have something that can do multiple things - much better. As to the deployment of the functionality, that entirely depends on the software makers and what software you intend to use. Personally it's a nice little feature in several applications, I don't expect it to change my life, but it's nice to have and definitely makes more use of that area. Note that you're not paying for just the touchbar though as some people tend to suggest, the differences between the no-touchbar and touchbar versions include much better thermals, CPU, SSD, and generally better performance. So the touchbar is an addition not an expense, and by all accounts the nTB version should not be sold alongside the other Pro models, it really should be considered a MacBook Air.

Best of luck with school!

 

[Cyberius11]

I just purchased a 2017 space gray model with touch bar and I absolutely love it. I am a bit worried about the keyboard failures I've read about, and at first didn't care for it but after using it for a few days, it's very nice to type on. It's noisy, but I use mechanical keyboard anyhow so I feel right at home.

The screen is gorgeous. The trackpad is gigantic and makes you never want to use a different notebook (not that I would anyhow).

The touchbar feels like less of a gimmick to me than some folks say. The primary reason you're going to be touching the screen in most cases is to respond to a dialog box, scroll pages, etc. The touch bar is a good compromise, as it will display the relevant controls for the application you're in, so you never have to get the screen dirty with fingerprints or reach up. It's quite convenient.

The build quality is fantastic. Sleek and smooth. The vents on each side of the 15 were uncomfortable though when picking up the machine. I bought a black clamshell case that has a rubbery feel and adds very little bulk to protect it, and it's much more comfortable to pick up now.

 

[alphaod]

My opinion is you'll appreciate a bigger screen so I suggest a 15" MacBook Pro. I use two laptop computers for work, one is 13" and the other 15", honestly for writing and stuff the bigger screen is so much better. With the way the Macs are sized they are all pretty light. Performance-wise don't think too much about games and stuff, get a computer you'll use for 95% of the time in my opinion there is no need to go crazy on specs, just get adequate RAM and storage. There was a time where I only bought maxed out configurations, but I've since realized that's been overkill for more often than not (I only go crazy specs for some very specialized reasons that really aren't applicable to regular computer usage).

The touch bar for me is pretty useless since I use all keyboard shortcuts, but it's a nice touch.

 

[compete12]

I have a 2008 MacBook (unibody) that I'm typing this on right now. 3 years ago, it seemed like it was done. However, a $79 SSD (240GB) from Best Buy brought this thing back to life. (Boot time to desktop went from 97 seconds to 44 seconds).

I'm currently looking for a replacement, but they're just too expensive. I have 4GB Memory in this thing, with 240GB SSD. I'd had to thing my $1500 investment in a new one will pretty much be for a memory upgrade to 8GB in a 13 MBP.
(as far as I'm concerned, a MB with 128GB is a Chromebook, once you subtract 40GB for the System, and they use the cloud).

The B&H Photo deal on a Late 2016 15 w/TouchBar seems tempting, but that STILL only 256GB SSD. I have no problem with the TouchBar.

I love hearing people's advice on this topic because there's just so many possibilities.

 

[nyy13251]

The responses have been terrific and helpful!! Thank you all so much and keep it coming! Love the feedback. I will check out a 2015. I am more into the idea of the newer MacBook, but never hurts to look.

After reading the comments, a touch bar seems like a nice thing to have, so if I get the MBP, I will get it with the touch bar. As for the keyboard, between now and June, I will go into Apple and play with it several times to make sure I can get the hang of it and that the noise won't bother me. I don't think it will. If the keyboard is a big problem, I would be surprised that Apple wont find a solution for it. I will definitely get Apple Care.

If apple replaces the topcase, does that fix the problem permanently? Can't it just happen again? I would fight with Apple if the keyboard broke after my Apple Care expired since this has been a somewhat common issue. No reason I should be on the hook for $700 for something that they didn't resolve. Besides the keyboard issue, it seems like a good choice.

The reason I am not looking at another laptop is because I am so used to Apple. I work on a Dell at work and hate it. I cannot stand Windows. I have an IPhone, IPad and used to use only MacBook in school. I am familiar and comfortable with Apple.

As for the 15' screen, it would be nice, but that may be a little out of my price range. I am aiming to upgrade my IPhone as well so I need to be reasonable. I am selling some stuff on ebay to help with the cost (sold an Ipad and currently trying to sell Apple Watch 2), so that all helps!

 

[mj_]

If apple replaces the topcase, does that fix the problem permanently? Can't it just happen again? I would fight with Apple if the keyboard broke after my Apple Care expired since this has been a somewhat common issue. No reason I should be on the hook for $700 for something that they didn't resolve. Besides the keyboard issue, it seems like a good choice.

You're funny... like, really funny. You're going to fight Apple? Really? Gee, I wonder how that is going to end...

The keyboard problems are far from resolved after a full top case replacement because you're getting the exact same defective keyboard as before. Just ask the many people around here who've had their MacBook Pro notebooks in for repair several times. My 2016 nTB has received two new keyboards in eight months, after which I decided to get rid of it for good. Don't get me wrong: it's an amazing laptop and I loved everything about it. Except for the ****** incredibly unreliable keyboard unworthy of a Pro notebook.

There's only two ways this can go: either Apple is going to issue a full-fledged recall and replace a problematic keyboard with another one that is also defective by design but still working (like they did with the 2011 AMD GPU recall, where they replaced the GPUs with the exact same defective model; or the staingate display coating problems where they're replacing screens with defective coating with other screens with the exact same coating, only one that hasn't started dissolving just yet) or they will do what they do now and deny the problem even exists. I've been lied to my face countless times by dozens of Apple employees, both in stores and on the phone. The only thing that will get Apple (or any other big company for that matter) to accept responsibility is a class action lawsuit. That's why so many people are getting rid of their 2016/2017 MacBook Pros after repeated failed repair attempts. That's why the 2015 is now more expensive than the 2016 - you can get a brand-new 2016 MBP for $200 than a brand-new 2015 MBP.

Personally, I would not recommend getting a 2016/2017 MacBook Pro until Apple discloses some information on the issues. Clearly, something's going horribly wrong but until Apple is forced to disclosed nobody knows whether it's 0.5% of 50% or 80% of all keyboards. Ultimately, it's up to you to play the keyboard lottery. You might end up loving it and never having any trouble. Or you might end up like me, lose hope after eight months, three repair attempts, and ultimately give up.

 

[ssmed]

I am hoping that Apple comes out with a minor refresh right before I purchase it in June.

The danger with this is that they might give you a new beta OS at the same time if your timing is out. Buying the existing model means you have the slightly more robust OS.

 

[nyy13251]

You're funny... like, really funny. You're going to fight Apple? Really? Gee, I wonder how that is going to end...

The keyboard problems are far from resolved after a full top case replacement because you're getting the exact same defective keyboard as before. Just ask the many people around here who've had their MacBook Pro notebooks in for repair several times. My 2016 nTB has received two new keyboards in eight months, after which I decided to get rid of it for good. Don't get me wrong: it's an amazing laptop and I loved everything about it. Except for the ****** incredibly unreliable keyboard unworthy of a Pro notebook.

There's only two ways this can go: either Apple is going to issue a full-fledged recall and replace a problematic keyboard with another one that is also defective by design but still working (like they did with the 2011 AMD GPU recall, where they replaced the GPUs with the exact same defective model; or the staingate display coating problems where they're replacing screens with defective coating with other screens with the exact same coating, only one that hasn't started dissolving just yet) or they will do what they do now and deny the problem even exists. I've been lied to my face countless times by dozens of Apple employees, both in stores and on the phone. The only thing that will get Apple (or any other big company for that matter) to accept responsibility is a class action lawsuit. That's why so many people are getting rid of their 2016/2017 MacBook Pros after repeated failed repair attempts. That's why the 2015 is now more expensive than the 2016 - you can get a brand-new 2016 MBP for $200 than a brand-new 2015 MBP.

Personally, I would not recommend getting a 2016/2017 MacBook Pro until Apple discloses some information on the issues. Clearly, something's going horribly wrong but until Apple is forced to disclosed nobody knows whether it's 0.5% of 50% or 80% of all keyboards. Ultimately, it's up to you to play the keyboard lottery. You might end up loving it and never having any trouble. Or you might end up like me, lose hope after eight months, three repair attempts, and ultimately give up.

If there one thing I have learned in life is if you are respectful, smart and patient, you can get good customer support. I have had great success in certain situations. I am someone who writes letters for great service and for bad service. I fought a battle with my insurance company for over a year. They kept saying I was wrong. I kept saying I was right.. In the end, they finally realized I was right and cut me a nice check. Again, this is Apple. But my point is, it never hurts to ask and try to talk to management.

You made some good points about the keyboard. it is a concern. I could be lucky and have a perfect mac or have major issues. I wish Apple would come out and say what went wrong but that will never happen. I doubt they would do a recall as well. Unless something blew up like the IPhone battery issues, nothing will change until the next big design.

 

[ruarmani]

Positives:
+ Really svelte and portable design
+ Most powerful MacBooks ever
+ Better cooling system (less throttling) than ever before
+ 2-4x versatile super high bandwidth ports
+ Excellent speakers
+ Brilliant high resolution, high colour accuracy screen

Negatives:
- Dongles required
- Keyboard failure rate seems to be high. Requires (potentially expensive out of warranty) top case replacement to fix
- No SD card slot (I treat this separately to other ports as USB C isn't a direct replacement for it)

So you see there's a lot to like, its just primarily the niggling issue of USB C/ Thunderbolt 3 adapters and the potentially bigger sticking point of the keyboard being prone to failing.

Totally agree. I have finally settled on 2017. I have been going back and forth between 2015 (got it refurb with dGPU) and 2017 models. What I noticed that later ones have better keyboard. I went through 6 machines. The last one I have got was manufactured in Oct 2017, week 40. So I think they do improve them. I do like it. Before sending 2015 back, I tried for few more days and after typing on 2017, 2015 feels mushy and soft. I checked my old late 2008 unibody, which I am replacing, and the keyboard is a bit better than 2015, it is more responsive. I was also told, in order to get the latest machine you should customize it. I did and it is the one I am happy with.

 

[ZapNZs]

If you are going to grad school, buy the touchbar model. If you aren't using a multi-monitor setup yet, you will be, and IMO the TB model works better for this.