Are the Macbooks worth it?

[OldCorpse]

I don't get it, really. This argument has been worn out. But if you're using a FW drive (or really any FW device), are you really using a mobile computer for its mobility? And if you're doing those things on a daily basis...you're not going to buy a macbook.

Actually, you are wrong. Often, I find myself working on a location doing instant edits, downloads etc. I need BOTH portability and FW. I need to edit things on a run on location, I'm not going to be dragging along a desktop. The other thing is when I'm showing something for a client - I just throw an external HDD into my bag, no problem. But I need FW. Another example: a good friend of mine is a DJ - he needs a laptop with FW for his gigs.

Here's where you are right - one needs a MBP in this situation... but errr... that was my point to the OP! If he wants to do audio work and film editing, he should be aware that MB is not the way to go - MBP is more suitable.

What burns a lot of people though is this: the MBP is a cow. If you wanted something the size of the MB with FW, YOU NO LONGER HAVE THAT OPTION!!! It used to be that in the old MB (previous models) you had FW on all of them. That's no longer true. THAT'S what's different from the past. THAT's where Apple dropped the ball. They removed an option that existed before - and left NO option for the professional who needs to travel light. I used to have an option before. Now I don't - it's MBP or nothing. What if I think the MBP is too big/heavy? I can get a previous model MB - nothing CURRENT in Apple's line up fits that niche.

Sure, you may say, Apple can go ahead and screw their customers, because only a minority use the FW this way. Thing is, things don't break like that, but numbers alone. Yes, it may make only a small difference in the bottom line... for a while. However, this is a very influential minority - the trendsetters, the evangelists, the high profile users, the PR boon for Apple. Apple always were strong in the creative fields users. That was worth FAR more than the small amount of $ to their bottom line - it was priceless PR. You saw a famous designer, director, musician etc. using an Apple - wow, that's worth a fortune in PR and advertising. If these people go away, your cache goes away. And eventually that has a devastating effect on the bottom line.

That's why I think it's a mistake to kick the creatives in the teeth as Apple is doing with utter contempt. It'll backfire. Just watch. I already know of several of my friends who are looking to alternatives - and they were going to buy new gear. Laugh now, we'll see who is right down the road.

 

[hogfaninga]

One thing I get sick of is every post about the MB, people cry about no firewire. Just learn to get over it already. It's a fact of life...

If it bothers you that some complain about it why keep debating it? Move to another thread or skip over that part of the thread. That is what you should "get over" already. If a topic doesn't interest me I move along. There is no need to put down others because they think differently than you.

 

[clyde2801]

One thing the original poster said he wanted to used the MB for was watching movies, and QT. The lack of contrast in the MB screen, limited viewing angle and its inability to display darks may influence the decision. If you've got a good external monitor, or won't be watching much stuff on the screen itself, it'll be fine.

Otherwise, consider an air or pro if that's important to you. Go down to the apple store with a 'dark' movie on DVD and see if it will work for you.

 

[robanga]

I really love these threads that have people come on them and talk about how Apple is forgetting the "creatives". Like this college student or the guy running Microsoft Excel and PowerPoint are any less creative or of value as a customer.

They're a computer company for the love of..... Buy something from the Wintel world. There are many many choices.

and just a reminder, Apple still has FW in one iof it's MB's, all of its Imacs and the pro series

 

[hogfaninga]

I really love these threads that have people come on them and talk about how Apple is forgetting the "creatives". Like this college student or the guy running Microsoft Excel and PowerPoint are any less creative or of value as a customer.

They're a computer company for the love of..... Buy something from the Wintel world. There are many many choices.

and just a reminder, Apple still has FW in one iof it's MB's, all of its Imacs and the pro series

As I said above I love it when people like you who have no interest in FW, yet go from thread to thread (you have posted in the main FW thread) to preach to others why Apple is so great and tell people to buy the Pro or a PC. Once again, if you don't care about FW why are you so desperate to put your 2 cents worth in about it in every thread about it?

 

[OldCorpse]

I really love these threads that have people come on them and talk about how Apple is forgetting the "creatives". Like this college student or the guy running Microsoft Excel and PowerPoint are any less creative or of value as a customer.

That's silly. "Creatives" refers to people who make their living in specific creative fields. Doesn't mean other people are not creative. Same as "athletes" who do it professionally, doesn't mean folks can't play football, basketball or whatever recreationally. The student can be super creative, but unless he's making a living from that in a specific field is not whom "creatives" refers to. Clear?

It's amazing how some folks will post really brain dead things all in the quest to silence those whose needs may be different from their own. I never said or implied that the MB is not suitable for some people. I simply responded to the OP when he asked a very specific question, mentioning wanting to record audio and work with video files. I think I was totally within my rights to point out the fact that the MB is not particularly well suited to these tasks, and MBP would be better for those purposes. Whether the FW issue, or the screen or any number of other issues, it is very clear that the MB is extremely limited for some tasks.

 

[ProwlingTiger]

I have to admit, I fail to see the EXACT reasoning for not including Firewire. Apple needs to move forward, not backward. I doubt it would have used many more resources and, why not have an extra port on board?

 

[OldCorpse]

I have to admit, I fail to see the EXACT reasoning for not including Firewire. Apple needs to move forward, not backward. I doubt it would have used many more resources and, why not have an extra port on board?

I can understand Apple wanting to get rid of "obsolete" technology. That's fine. However, they should make sure that when they do so, that what is substituted is better, not worse! If you want to get rid of FW - fine. However, then give us a BETTER option, like maybe a successor to eSata (something powered like FW), or some other connector. But don't simply dump FW and leave us with an inferior USB. That takes away, and gives nothing in return. All that happened is we lost FW, gained nothing.

See the contrast when Apple dropped the floppy drive - fine, they dropped it, but they had something much better to replace it with - the CD drive. Imagine they dropped the 3.5 floppy and instead stayed with the older 5" floppy - that's what they did when they dropped FW, but stayed with USB.

Wrong way to do it, Apple.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

All of you think short term not long term. I have a theory that Apple may be waiting for FireWire 1600 (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) and 3200 versions to be released for public use. Taking away USB is like taking a gun and shooting themselves in the foot. Again, the average consumer should know the term USB over FireWire, as more electronics are USB (consumer world). Maybe in the next few years or so when FireWire 1600/3200 is out and about, they will use that port instead. Again, don't bash me over this, it's just something I thought of; it may or may not be true, who knows?

 

[jordans0nly]

Just curious, I may be way off base here but I've always used a PC. I'm thinking of buying a new/used laptop but why would I even consider to buy a Macbook?

Just trying to see what's so great about them, and yes I've been on a few, and yes it's a nice computer, but, for me someone that just get's on the laptop to browse the net, talk to friends, do a little reading and research every now and then, maybe burn a little music, why would a Macbook serve a better purpose than an HP, or a Dell?

Dont flame me guys, just asking a question that a friend and I always talk about. I just want to try and be swayed.

I did own the iPhone, loved it, but hated ATT, so went back to Verizon, just saying.

 

[hogfaninga]

Just curious, I may be way off base here but I've always used a PC. I'm thinking of buying a new/used laptop but why would I even consider to buy a Macbook?

Just trying to see what's so great about them, and yes I've been on a few, and yes it's a nice computer, but, for me someone that just get's on the laptop to browse the net, talk to friends, do a little reading and research every now and then, maybe burn a little music, why would a Macbook serve a better purpose than an HP, or a Dell?

Dont flame me guys, just asking a question that a friend and I always talk about. I just want to try and be swayed.

I did own the iPhone, loved it, but hated ATT, so went back to Verizon, just saying.

If what you said is all you do then a PC is much cheaper and will do all of that just as good.

 

[OldCorpse]

Just curious, I may be way off base here but I've always used a PC. I'm thinking of buying a new/used laptop but why would I even consider to buy a Macbook?

Just trying to see what's so great about them, and yes I've been on a few, and yes it's a nice computer, but, for me someone that just get's on the laptop to browse the net, talk to friends, do a little reading and research every now and then, maybe burn a little music, why would a Macbook serve a better purpose than an HP, or a Dell?

Dont flame me guys, just asking a question that a friend and I always talk about. I just want to try and be swayed.

I did own the iPhone, loved it, but hated ATT, so went back to Verizon, just saying.

Depends on what you want and what you need. Do you value portability? Then the MB is thin (small) and lightish (lighter than many Dell and HP laptops). If you need greater portability - MBA. Of course MBA is more $. If you want something for light duty that is as cheap as possible - then stay away from Apple... they are not competitive along this axis. If you want something that's going to be a good machine to do serious pro work in audio and video and photography, graphics etc., but still be portable, then consider the MBP. And so on.

First determine what you need, and what is important to you (cost?). Then make your decision. I think one argument for a MB is simply to experience OS X. It does your brain good to try different OS - which is why I still occasionally use Win or Linux platforms... keeps the brain working.

What is unique about the MB (compared to NON APPLE laptops) is that they are very solidly built (unibody), and of course OS X. Otherwise, meh. So if that doesn't matter to you, then I would recommend not getting a Mac.

 

[brop52]

The Macbook has strengths in battery life, size, and weight so it is a very portable machine. It is more powerful and cheaper than the MBA so it is ideal for students. Strengths it has over the run of the mill PC notebook is it will be much quieter, dissipate heat better, have better battery life, and will be much lighter and smaller. The MB will probably be more expensive than most PCs, but if you can afford the extra amount, buy at the ideal time, and have an interest in using OS X it is the better choice. There are some 12" machines or smaller with what you would call netbooks, but the MB isn't really in that category. So in the end it comes down to preferences. The MB is a solid all around machine that is highly portable. If you are a student and wait for summers then the deal is amazing with the free printer, free ipod, and ed discount. If not, then you can't go wrong buying right after an update since the components prices are not excessive and the value is better compared to the rest of the marketplace.

 

[ProwlingTiger]

I can understand Apple wanting to get rid of "obsolete" technology. That's fine. However, they should make sure that when they do so, that what is substituted is better, not worse! If you want to get rid of FW - fine. However, then give us a BETTER option, like maybe a successor to eSata (something powered like FW), or some other connector. But don't simply dump FW and leave us with an inferior USB. That takes away, and gives nothing in return. All that happened is we lost FW, gained nothing.

See the contrast when Apple dropped the floppy drive - fine, they dropped it, but they had something much better to replace it with - the CD drive. Imagine they dropped the 3.5 floppy and instead stayed with the older 5" floppy - that's what they did when they dropped FW, but stayed with USB.

Wrong way to do it, Apple.

Exactly. Even so, I'd rather be stuck with a FW400, or...imagine FW800 on a Macbook! Wow, I doubt Apple coulda grasped that concept!

A part of me wants to think they have a good reason for doing this, aside from saving a bit of space in the uni-body and time with etching another hole, but I'm just not seeing the logic here.

 

[OldCorpse]

Exactly. Even so, I'd rather be stuck with a FW400, or...imagine FW800 on a Macbook! Wow, I doubt Apple coulda grasped that concept!

A part of me wants to think they have a good reason for doing this, aside from saving a bit of space in the uni-body and time with etching another hole, but I'm just not seeing the logic here.

Right. I've been trying to figure out what they save by omitting FW, and for the life of me, it seems stupid. I mean, how much do they save by not having that extra connector there? It's not like they even pay royalties on FW, since it was developed by Apple. Just doesn't make any sense.

Bottom line, omitting FW from the MB was a big mistake IMHO, and the OP should be made aware of the lack of FW on the MB.

 

[zeero911]

Hey guys, well I just recently went to an Apple store in Knoxville, TN to check out both the MB and MBP. I believe I have been convinced into the MB. When I was there I noticed that there IS a noticeable difference in the size of the two and the MB is definitely more portable. The MBP was very impressive with its display, but the only things it has on the higher end MB is the larger display, FW, and the extra graphics card. So for me I think I like the portability over the larger display, I have never used firewire ( and definitely did not intend to start an argument over it) and it seems that there are alternatives around it, and I did like the graphics card on the MBP but I saw that Call of Duty was coming out for the Macs and that you would def be able to play it on the MB. The higher end MB and the lower end MBP (which is about a $400 difference) both have the backlit keyboard, the same memory cache, 250 GB hard drive, the basic GeForce 9400M graphics card ( even though the MBP comes with the GT as well), and the same sleek new aluminum design. These were my impressions of the two, and it seemed that the MB was just more bang for the buck. If there are any more things anyone thinks I should know please reply back.

P.S. Please no more Firewire discussions And thanks to everyone.

 

[hogfaninga]

Congrats on making a decision. There are a few more differences between the MB and the MBP that you didn't cover, but evidently it wasn't important to you. One thing which is important to some is screen quality and the MBP has a much better quality screen in it. If you don't need FW and want the most portable machine (not including the awesome Air) then the MB is a great choice. Enjoy.

 

[nick9191]

I love my new MacBook. Really, I am glad it doesn't have the wasted port of that outdated technology called firewire. Seriously, everything comes in USB 2.0. I do not do audio or graphics work heavily, but I do own both a camcorder and camera that use USB 2.0.

Firewire 400 pwns USB into Oblivion in every way, with every device, in every scenario. USB is the wasted port of that outdated technology.

 

[svndmvn]

Actually,I find the 2.0 version to be the better bang for you buck.
I was just wondering if the performance gap between the 2.0GHz and 2.4GHz version could get bigger with 10.5.6 or 10.6, guess not.

 

[Winni]

Ok let's lay down the facts:

FireWire is useful, for the AVERAGE CONSUMER (hint: MB's audience) it is not necessary. FireWire has a theoretical speed of up to 800Mb/s. You will NEVER reach that speed unless you have a RAID setup via FireWire. For all other purposes, USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s and FireWire 400 is 400Mb/s.

In real life, external Firewire hard disks perform better than USB-connected disks and show much better transfer rates and throughput.

Furthermore, the real killer argument for Firewire is built-in transfer error correction, which USB simply does not have.

I have an external 16x Plextor DVD writer here that supports both Firewire and USB. For some strange reason, it dumps less DVD media when I use it through Firewire.

It simply is an extremely idiotic choice of Apple to drop Firewire from their products. For what are they doing it anyway? To safe a few cents for the additional chip on the main board and the outlet?

And why are Apple's notebooks still the only notebooks on this planet that don't have card readers? Because that would add another dollar to the production costs?

I don't think that Apple's new MacBook is a bad machine. I like its general design, although I find the new keyboard and the black frame around the display rather ugly and cheap looking. Let's face it: Apple's MacBooks begin to look and feel like the average HP consumer machine.

On the downside, those MacBooks are twice as expensive as more powerful PC notebooks with larger screens. You pay a lot for the "privilege" to run OS X on an Apple-designed machine. Look at an average 800 to 900 EURO Asus, Acer, HP or Sony notebook and simply compare the technical specification and let us know what justifies the much higher price of the Apple machine -- besides being trapped in a vendor-lock in with Apple, I mean.

For 980 Euros, I can get a 17" Sony notebook with the same graphics card that the MacBook PRO uses - but with more video memory, I get a 500 GB hard disk and I even get a BluRay drive. When I crank up the MacBook to at least half-way match the RAM and hard disk of the Sony machine and add Apple Care to the deal, I'm almost at double the price.

But what I should really do is compare the 17" Sony machine to a 17" MacBook Pro, because that is the league we're really talking about here when we want to compare the technical specs. The problem is that this MacBook Pro starts at 2500 Euros. Duh!

The only business case for the Apple machines is that you need the compatibility with OS X because you want to use software that's only available for OS X - Final Cut Studio, Aperture and the like. Basically only stuff from Apple, that is.

However, if you can afford the luxury of buying the sweet Apple design, then you can't do much wrong with buying a MacBook/MacBook Pro. They're good machines. Like a BMW is a pricy but good and nice looking car.

 

[Winni]

Oh, and one more thing...

"Creatives" and "Pros" should consider this: Apple has turned into a consumer and home user company. That is where their money is.

Yes, the famous designer using an Apple machine in an interview has been cheap and very well working PR for Apple.

The problem is, they no longer really need that. People nowadays know Apple because of their iPods and the iPhone. The Macs are an afterthought at best. Apple's last financial report reflects that very well: Most of their money is being made with iPods, iTunes and the iPhone.

And in the Mac sector, the Pro-line of series is not nearly as successful as their consumer line is.

Throughout the last years, Apple has -lost- many of their traditional customers - namely Adobe users - to the PC market.

 

[robanga]

Which market is larger? That is the one to pursue. You do pay a premium to run OS X no doubt about that.