Are there Mac users who don't use Time Machine?

[philipma1957]

...

NOTHING beats having a relatively recent, bootable clone of your internal drive with everything on it.

this is all you need to know!

 

[onthecouchagain]

Interesting responses, all. Some of this stuff is new to me, so a few questions...

So CCC and SuperDuper are basically programs (like TM is a program) except TM isn't bootable when there is a failed HD, correct?

So CCC/SuperDuper allows you to back up all your stuff PLUS your OS-bootup information onto an external HD?

And in terms of scheduled backing up, it does the same thing as TM.

But in terms of a failed HD, TM stops there, and you would have to rely on CCC/SupDup?

How does one boot from CCC/SupDup if the HD has failed?

 

[philipma1957]

Interesting responses, all. Some of this stuff is new to me, so a few questions...

So CCC and SuperDuper are basically programs (like TM is a program) except TM isn't bootable when there is a failed HD, correct?

So CCC/SuperDuper allows you to back up all your stuff PLUS your OS-bootup information onto an external HD?

And in terms of scheduled backing up, it does the same thing as TM.

But in terms of a failed HD, TM stops there, and you would have to rely on CCC/SupDup?

How does one boot from CCC/SupDup if the HD has failed?

lots of ways wait 5 mins and i will post a screen shot. I have two copies a and b they are in the screen shot.

I can click the gear box in my dock to get preferences.

if it is not in your dock look for it in finder just type in preferences..

then click startup disk and pick what you want to boot with in my case cop a cop b or mac hdd will work.


if you crashed your internal power the machine off and then power it back on. the iMac will try to find a hdd to boot from. since the internal is dead it will not use it and look for an external then boot. you can go from crashed to rebooted in under 2 mins. If my mac died I would pull one of my backups off the fw800 and just try one of them. just incase the imac is really f'd up and kills the clone I still have another clone or two.

the clones can work on another imac. so if my imac really truly is super dead hdd and more I still have two or three copies that will work on other macs.

 

[onthecouchagain]

More questions:

If one were to solely use Time Machine to back up their stuff, and the internal HD failed, they would basically have to go to the Apple store (or do it themselves, whichever) and have them "fix" the problem so your computer can boot again, right? And in the event they can't recover your files, once your computer is starting up normally again, you can restore your lost files via the last Time Machine save.

This is how TM is supposed to work, correct?


Also:

If I were to use both, as some of you have suggested, TM and CCC or SuperDuper... can I back both of those guys to the same external HD? Would I have to partition say half for TM, and half for CCC? Or is it advised they both be on separate ext HDs?

Can I use TM to back up my personal files (e.g., documents, pics, music), and then use CCC purely to back up my OS-startup? EDIT: I guess that doesn't make any sense, huh? If I'm planning to use CCC, then I might as well use CCC to backup my personal files too, since it does the same thing as TM.

 

[onthecouchagain]

lots of ways wait 5 mins and i will post a screen shot. I have two copies a and b they are in the screen shot

Thanks Philip.

But if my internal HD has failed, how would I even get to that screen to have my Mac choose the backup boot information on my ext HD?

 

[philipma1957]

Thanks Philip.

But if my internal HD has failed, how would I even get to that screen to have my Mac choose the backup boot information on my ext HD?

power the machine down. leave only one external clone plugged into the iMac only one case not all of them. I have two cases on my imac. daisychained.


so you have a powered off imac and one powered on clone.

the clone is plugged into the imac.

now press the power on button on the imac.

the imac will try to boot it will find the bad internal then say that is dead.

next it will find the clone and auto pick it and boot.

so dead imac is working in under 2 minutes.

 

[Paulywauly]

Have you considered using both Carbon Copy Cloner (Or Superduper) as well as TM?

Having an external USB drive with a bootable clone from CCC (copied daily) and another larger drive for TM backups gives you the advantages of both kinds of backup.

This have saved my butt before when my internal hard drive failed, meant i still had a working computer until it could be repaired. Plus you can clone it back when its repaired exactly as it was and still have your Time Machine

 

[GGJstudios]

I prefer Carbon Copy Cloner, so I can have bootable backups and keep them updated with regular incremental backups.

 

[onthecouchagain]

power the machine down. leave only one external clone plugged into the iMac only one case not all of them. I have two cases on my imac. daisychained.


so you have a powered off imac and one powered on clone.

the clone is plugged into the imac.

now press the power on button on the imac.

the imac will try to boot it will find the bad internal then say that is dead.

next it will find the clone and auto pick it and boot.

so dead imac is working in under 2 minutes.

That simple, huh? That's great. Thank you again.

I think I will go with CCC. Appreciate all the insight, folks.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Having an external USB drive with a bootable clone from CCC (copied daily) and another larger drive for TM backups gives you the advantages of both kinds of backup.

Wait, how large is a bootable clone?

It's small enough you can back it up to a USB Drive?

And why would you need to backup a bootable clone daily? Does the boot OS change on a daily basis?

The only thing I would imagine needing daily back up are files that are changing everyday (documents, for example, or folders in which new photos are being added to, etc.)

 

[GGJstudios]

Wait, how large is a bootable clone?

It's the same size as the information cloned.

And why would you need to backup a bootable clone daily? Does the boot OS change on a daily basis?

No, you create a bootable backup first, which copies your entire hard drive. Then you keep that backup current by incremental backups, which only backs up what changed since the last backup.

 

[old-wiz]

I use Time Machine on my iMac 24", but I also use SuperDuper to make a clone regularly on a separate drive. I also clone to a USB drive that I keep in a safe.

I have 3 laptops, and just back them up with SuperDuper a couple of times per week. time Machine would not be that useful when I carry the laptops around the house or when I'm away.

 

[Wiggo]

Great thread, people! Thanks for all the info for a newbie (of sorts).

First Mac: Mac 128K, OS 1.0, 1984
Last Mac: Mac IIfx, OS 7, retired 1995
New Mac: iMac 27 SSD, OS X, next week (I hope).

 

[onthecouchagain]

How large are people's USB drives that are being used to clone a bootable backup?

 

[philipma1957]

How large are people's USB drives that are being used to clone a bootable backup?

your clone drive must be larger or equal to the imac hdd.

so if you have a 1tb internal the external needs to be 1tb or larger..

(very simple explanation.)


this is a 2tb

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822207017


this is a 1tb

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822204079



both are usb basic models


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
other option is buy empty ones


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...sans_digital_towerstor-_-16-111-110-_-Product

the one above would be used with usb2



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...sans_digital_towerstor-_-16-111-111-_-Product


this would be used with fw800 or usb2 this is twice the speed. of the one above if you hook up to fw800.


this is a good backup drive 1tb

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185&Tpk=samsung f3

this is a good backup 2tb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2245&cm_re=samsung_2tb-_-22-152-245-_-Product
__________________________________________________________________________________________________


buy the empty setup you are at ;

80 plus 80 plus 29 plus 80 for a pair of 2tb about 275

or 80 plus 64 plus 29 plus 64 for a pair of 1tb about 245

_________________________________________________________________________________________________ http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC343LL/A/Time-Capsule-1TB?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY 1 tb time capsule = 299


http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC344LL/A/Time-Capsule-2TB?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY 2 tb time capsule = 499

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

so you get two pretty instant 2tb backup clones for 275 vs one 2tb not instant backup for 499

 

[Paulywauly]

How large are people's USB drives that are being used to clone a bootable backup?

As long as its big enough to make an exact copy of the contents or your boot drive it shouldnt matter too much. e.g. if you have a 500GB internal drive and use only 100GB you only need 100GB worth of space to clone.

Realistically though its best to have a drive atleast the same size as the one your booting off, or a larger drive with a big enough bootable partition

 

[onthecouchagain]

Thanks. I understand now. Great help from all.

Edit: Pre-formatted NTFS = read and write for Mac OS... yes?

EDIT 2: No wait, Macs want HFS+. I just looked it up.

 

[7thMac]

Carbon Copy Cloner looks impressive. I'll give it a try. It seems to be more powerful than Time Machine.

 

[GGJstudios]

Thanks. I understand now. Great help from all.

Edit: Pre-formatted NTFS = read and write for Mac OS... yes?

EDIT 2: No wait, Macs want HFS+. I just looked it up.

Here's a recap of format options:

FAT32 (File Allocation Table)

• Read/Write FAT32 from both native Windows and native Mac OS X.
• Maximum file size: 4GB.
• Maximum volume size: 2TB

NTFS (Windows NT File System)

• Read/Write NTFS from native Windows.
• Read only NTFS from native Mac OS X
  [*]To Read/Write/Format NTFS from Mac OS X: Install NTFS-3G for Mac OS X (free)
  
• Some have reported problems using Tuxera (approx 33USD).
• Native NTFS support can be enabled in Snow Leopard, but is not advisable, due to instability.
• AirPort Extreme (802.11n) and Time Capsule do not support NTFS
• Maximum file size: 16 TB
• Maximum volume size: 256TB

HFS+ (Hierarchical File System, a.k.a. Mac OS Extended)

• Read/Write HFS+ from native Mac OS X
  [*]Required for Time Machine or Carbon Copy Cloner backups of Mac internal hard drive.
  
• To Read/Write HFS+ from Windows, Install MacDrive
• To Read HFS+ (but not Write) from Windows, Install HFSExplorer
• Maximum file size: 8EiB
• Maximum volume size: 8EiB

exFAT (FAT64)

• Supported in Mac OS X only in 10.6.5 or later.
• Not all Windows versions support exFAT. See disadvantages.
• exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table)
• AirPort Extreme (802.11n) and Time Capsule do not support exFAT
• Maximum file size: 16 EiB
• Maximum volume size: 64 ZiB

 

[talmy]

Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner (or SuperDuper!) really solve two different problems, so it's good to use both.

Time Machine, when always running, provides an easy to use recovery for accidental deletions and "bad" edits. It's not so good (but still functional) for recovery from internal drive failure. And it is useless for disaster (flood, fire, theft) recovery.

Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper!, when used on a regular basis (requires discipline) and with 2 or more copies alternated and at least one kept off-site, is great for recovery from drive failure and disaster recovery. However it is not particularly good for accidental deletions and bad edits. You have to be lucky that the file happened to be captured in a backup.

So I use a combination of Time Machine and SuperDuper! Every Mac (we have 7 in the house) has a SuperDuper! backup off-site. And the 4 Macs that have changing data on them (the "work" systems) back up with SuperDuper! to a central server's drive.

 

[SimonBS]

I have all my documents, code and so on synced and backed up through Dropbox. My important photos, videos and music I manually back up on a NAS. I prefer that way over Time Machine - though my NAS i Time Machine compatible.

 

[rcook]

I have all my documents, code and so on synced and backed up through Dropbox. My important photos, videos and music I manually back up on a NAS. I prefer that way over Time Machine - though my NAS i Time Machine compatible.

I do something very similar. I have my docs and source files on Dropbox. I have my iTunes library of music and movies on my NAS (Drobo). I also use Time Machine to a dedicated partition on the NAS.

One missing piece in my backup scheme I plan on solving in the next few days is to use Carbon Copy Cloner to keep an up to date full image backup on the NAS, that I could push to a bootable device should I need to.

 

[cooky560]

I don't use Time Machine since I store all my files on a USB HDD