Are there really THAT many damaged i5 and why?

[MuddyPaws1]

A two minute hunt (literally two mins....) brought these. iPhone 4 and 4s. Over 25% reporting out of the box damage in one of the above.

Data a little skewed there scooter. 25% of the people that responded. Which equals 81 for the entire polling period.

The current poll that has been running for what, 2 days? Has the number of scuffed ones near 500 already.

Substantial difference.

 

[phpmaven]

I'm not sure why people keep saying opinions on a forum don't represent a real issue.

It reminds me of the BMW forum I frequent. HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) units kept failing left and right from 2007-current (although much lower rate) and everyone on the forums kept claiming that this does not represent the majority of cars on the road.

BMW finally acknowledged the issue after being brought a lawsuit in 2010.

Because this forum is mostly populated by people who scrutinize every nook and cranny of their device as soon as they get it and have a tendency to overreact to every tiny issue. The average consumer doesn't even notice these kinds of things. I know dozens of people like that who have iPhones and iPads and when I mention any of these kinds of issues, they are like: Huh? What are you talking about?

People here freak out over one stuck pixel or take their device into a dark room with a black image on their screen and pore over every inch to see if there's any light bleed etc... The average person doesn't do any of that.

People on these forums read about all of these supposed issues and then put their device under a microscope as soon as they get it looking for those same issues. I do it myself.

The other thing with Internet forums in general is that the people who post the most are people that are not happy or have an axe to grind etc... I've spent many many years on forums of one kind or another and I can tell you that a forum is definitely not representative of the population in general.

Just to use your BMW forum example. Let's say there are 10,000 people driving that same model around and some people are having a certain problem. Those people will go looking for other people having the same issue and they will all get together on a forum and make a lot of negative noise about it. You come along and see this and think that it's a huge issue affecting most owners when it may just be a small percentage of people affected. The vast majority of the 9,500 people who are having no problem will not join in and talk about how great the car is. A few will, and they will get shouted down for daring to insinuate that the complainers problems are not real. happens here all the time.

I think it's good to keep some balanced perspective. Sure, some people are having real issues or problems, but that doesn't mean that there is some huge problem. "How can Apple release such a piece of junk" "This is criminal" "This never would have happened if Steve were alive" and so on.

 

[bova80]

Thought my 32gb black was flawless til I saw someone post up about camera lens issue. Looked at mine and noticed dust under the lens and what looks like a scuff. Going to apple store tomorrow.

 

[bigdaddyjo]

The two posts above this one capture the issue more perfectly than could be planned.

 

[trevorlc]

How many iPhones have been ordered worldwide? It's the complainers who appear first. No one is going to come on here and post "OMG, my iPhone was perfect out of the box, I am so happy"




Ok, not many then

Completely agree, I remember being forced by an employer a couple years back to watch some customer service training video and the one thing the stuck was some statistic about how a dissatisfied customer is more likely to tell 10+ people about their experience where a satisfied customer is more likely to tell less than 3 people.

No idea if those numbers are accurate but I can certainly see how they would be, I am satisfied constantly when interacting with businesses and yet I usually only make an effort to tell people, write a review, etc if it was unsatisfactory. (There have been a few times where I was completely blown away by an amazing experience and made an effort to share that but its certainly not the norm.)

 

[takeshi74]

I'm not sure why people keep saying opinions on a forum don't represent a real issue.

No one's saying that they don't. The point is that relying solely on discussion forum (on any topic -- not just the iPhone and not just smartphones but ANY topic) posts presents a skewed perspective on the matter as people only post when they have problems. If you can account for the skewing, great. Most armchair experts cannot.

 

[tantric132]

How many iPhones have been ordered worldwide? It's the complainers who appear first. No one is going to come on here and post "OMG, my iPhone was perfect out of the box, I am so happy"

This. People come here to trouble shoot. Just because you are reading hundreds of threads with reported problems doesn't mean that the majority of i5 users have problems...MacRumors covers such a minute user base it's not even funny. Woah woah woah how could I say this, this place is popular as hell! Yeah well so is the freaking iPhone...

 

[richpuer]

No, mines pretty near flawless

 

[Psycho Mantis]

Just to use your BMW forum example. Let's say there are 10,000 people driving that same model around and some people are having a certain problem. Those people will go looking for other people having the same issue and they will all get together on a forum and make a lot of negative noise about it. You come along and see this and think that it's a huge issue affecting most owners when it may just be a small percentage of people affected. The vast majority of the 9,500 people who are having no problem will not join in and talk about how great the car is. A few will, and they will get shouted down for daring to insinuate that the complainers problems are not real. happens here all the time.

I think it's good to keep some balanced perspective. Sure, some people are having real issues or problems, but that doesn't mean that there is some huge problem. "How can Apple release such a piece of junk" "This is criminal" "This never would have happened if Steve were alive" and so on.

Believe me, the HPFP was a worldwide issue. BMW acknowledges fault, people have continually come in the dealership on limp mode and flat beds, my own has already failed twice. Why do I put up with it? Because there is nothing in the same price segment that offers a more complete package, in terms of driving experience, power delivery, and luxury.

That aside, I never said it was a huge problem, and it is too early to tell anyway. Most likely, and hopefully, just a bad batch. I also do not believe the iPhone is "junk" as some would like to put it. It is a fantastic phone, and like every other phone before it, is bound to have some problems.

Is this a manufacturing issue? Sure. Is it widespread? Unlikely, but way too soon to tell.

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No one's saying that they don't. The point is that relying solely on discussion forum (on any topic -- not just the iPhone and not just smartphones but ANY topic) posts presents a skewed perspective on the matter as people only post when they have problems. If you can account for the skewing, great. Most armchair experts cannot.

Ahh derp, I understand now. Guess I should have read more carefully.

 

[Geckotek]

Hmmm....how many posts are on here with the thread title "My iPhone 4 has dents right out of the box" or "Opened my iPhone 4S at the Apple store and it has a gash on the side"?

The average person with no issues is sitting at home happy with their new iPhone 5. Those with an issue turn to the Internet to look up and discuss that issue with others. Eventually you end up with a forum full of users with issues, no longer resembling the average user, but instead comprised with a high percentage of users with issues.

 

[phpmaven]

Believe me, the HPFP was a worldwide issue. BMW acknowledges fault, people have continually come in the dealership on limp mode and flat beds, my own has already failed twice. Why do I put up with it? Because there is nothing in the same price segment that offers a more complete package, in terms of driving experience, power delivery, and luxury.

That aside, I never said it was a huge problem, and it is too early to tell anyway. Most likely, and hopefully, just a bad batch. I also do not believe the iPhone is "junk" as some would like to put it. It is a fantastic phone, and like every other phone before it, is bound to have some problems.

I understand. I was just making a general point and didn't research the details of your BMW issue.

 

[bobo31790]

I thought maybe it seemed like there were many cases since only complainers usually post, but to my surprise my mom's new 5 had little chips in the bezel. She doesn't really care, but its still kind of disappointing. Mine has the tinest scuff on the top right, but since both of our phones are white its nowhere near as noticeable as the defects on the black phones. It was kind of surprising to have this happen to me as i thought it probably wasnt that common.

 

[shortcrust]

Data a little skewed there scooter. 25% of the people that responded. Which equals 81 for the entire polling period.

The current poll that has been running for what, 2 days? Has the number of scuffed ones near 500 already.

Substantial difference.

First off, please don't call me scooter. It doesn't hurt to have a bit little of respect for the people you're conversing with.

You can't argue that previous data are skewed towards people with problems without conceding that current data are also skewed in exactly the same way! As for the number? Three days after the iPhone 4 was released there were around 1,000 posts on the UK iphone 4 thread. Today on the UK iphone 5 thread there are over 9,000 posts. There were over 5,000 before people even got their phones! The figures are clearly not comparable.

I'm not arguing that no one has a problem with their phone and I recognise that people who do have problems are entitled to be cross and to get their phone replaced. However, one thing is clear. On the release of previous iPhones you could have drawn the conclusion form reading macrumors that a high proportion of handsets were cosmetically damaged straight out of the box. In previous years that impression would have been wrong. I suspect that this year is no different.

 

[noteple]

There is no way Apple or any company is going to inspect every phone that it ships out. I am saying, companies have a acceptable rate for defects. If 2 to 4% are returned because of flaws, defects, not working, etc, it is acceptable. I'm not saying the customer has to accept it, I'm saying the company does.

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Apple expects their manufacturing agents to inspect and deliver a 100% product.

Line defects are to be caught and corrected before shipment.

Cosmetic issues are not always detected with automated equipment.
Workers are on an assembly line and expected to meet quota.
Rushing causes damage and things can be intentionally overlooked by workers to meet production numbers.

Yes manufacturing defects are possible however companies insure against them with a warranty.
Yes they are expected but anything that damages customer satisfaction or company reputation will be quickly addressed with the supplier.

There has been pushback on out-of-the-box visible housing damage.
I'm sure Apple will cause a number of heads to roll on the production lines.

 

[MuddyPaws1]

The average person with no issues is sitting at home happy with their new iPhone 5. Those with an issue turn to the Internet to look up and discuss that issue with others. Eventually you end up with a forum full of users with issues, no longer resembling the average user, but instead comprised with a high percentage of users with issues.

I understand that, but that same thing could be said about the 4 or 4S launch unless you are saying that last year the people with problems did not look up and discuss the issue on the internet.

 

[iSayuSay]

This is definitely a design and material issues of iPhone 5 .. No need to argue with that.
Some members here keep saying [MacRumors forum does not represent the whole iPhone 5 buyer's community] Oh, please Don't kid us down, Mister ..

Believe me, over time there will be more and more issues like this unless revise the phone (which unlikely to happen until iPhone 5S or 6 or whatever). Might only be a cosmetic-issue, but nobody likes buying a brand new car with chipped paint on it despite it bounds to happen over time. Simple logic, Mister

A previously strong and hard stainless antenna band replaced by lighter and weaker Aluminum slab .. anodized. What do you expect? Of course it's lighter, but nothing magical here.
For something designed to be mobile, in contact with many stuff and surfaces .. Aluminum and anodizing is no more than smoke and mirror.

Should've stayed with stainless steel band instead, I don't mind my iPhone weighs 140gr and less prone to scratch and chipping, please