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IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.
 
IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.

someone will be willing to pay that price for the iPad.
 
I second that. It's just plain old rude and unethically for people to take away an ipad from a true apple fan just to make $100. Then the ones who get away with buying 20?!
:

I might hazard to guess that the guy paying premium is the bigger Apple fan. If someone offered me $800 for my 32GB, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

It's all going to come down to how much stock Apple will have available for sale on Friday. If they run out by noon, count on HUGE markups on CL. It would be really hard to not participate in that frenzy. I want my iPad, but I'm not a complete idiot.

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IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.

You're not "taking advantage" of them, you are helping them out. They know what they cost. There's no shenanigans going on.
 
The only reason people bring up the tax implications, is because other people attempt justify this behavior as perfectly legal...its only perfectly legal if the income is reported...

But yes, it is the morality of it, that I think people "hate" on resellers....I know I think little of them and what they do...and as a potential buyer of those products, I am not an uninterested third party to your little transaction, since you, at a minimum, theoretically limit/affect the legitimate availability of said product...

I pre-ordered one for myself and one for my wife. Now we're thinking that 16GB may not be enough. If someone is willing to pay $700 for the 16GB because 1) they didn't pre-order or 2) waited too long and now don't want to brave the lines, then what's wrong with that?

This is called opportunity cost.
 
IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.

While it would feel wrong to me to go and help deplete the stock at an official retailer for the sake of selling at a higher price, I don't think that it's "taking advantage" when an adult without any obvious mental handicap offers to pay however much they're willing to pay. It's more than reasonable to assume that they know that the device they're paying for won't be so difficult to find forever.
 
I might hazard to guess that the guy paying premium is the bigger Apple fan. If someone offered me $800 for my 32GB, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

It's all going to come down to how much stock Apple will have available for sale on Friday. If they run out by noon, count on HUGE markups on CL. It would be really hard to not participate in that frenzy. I want my iPad, but I'm not a complete idiot.

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You're not "taking advantage" of them, you are helping them out. They know what they cost. There's no shenanigans going on.

Eh, it just feels incredibly greedy on my part...Then again, I really want more gigabytes - except my iPad 2, when I recently sold it, had only 4GB used before I restored to factory default. 16GB probably is enough even if I decide to plunk down some media for plane rides. Screw it, I'll open the box on Friday and enjoy my new toy.
 
I pre-ordered one for myself and one for my wife. Now we're thinking that 16GB may not be enough. If someone is willing to pay $700 for the 16GB because 1) they didn't pre-order or 2) waited too long and now don't want to brave the lines, then what's wrong with that?

This is called opportunity cost.

Perhaps nothing, especially if your justification is honest fickleness and not simple greed...

Maybe I should amend my comments to "professional" resellers...you know, those people who purposely and systemically buy multiple iPads with the sole intention of selling them on the gray market...
 
I'm probably going to wait a month or more for mine, but there's just a tinge of a craving to go out and try to buy one at the Apple store on Friday for the chance that I could make $100 or more through Craigslist. It's just that it would make me feel… gross, and waiting in line for an iPad that I have it in mind to scalp would feel awfully hollow.

But kudos (and eww) to the people who can do that and feel okay about it!

That gross feeling? That's your conscience. I'm glad you have one. :)
 
That gross feeling? That's your conscience. I'm glad you have one. :)

I'm not exactly sure how someone braving the launch day crowds or preordering and then making $$$ off someone who didn't but wants one is an act requiring an absence of conscience. My time is very valuable, and if I choose to pay someone else for theirs while getting me something I want, that should be fine.

:confused:
 
Perhaps nothing, especially if your justification is honest fickleness and not simple greed...

Maybe I should amend my comments to "professional" resellers...you know, those people who purposely and systemically buy multiple iPads with the sole intention of selling them on the gray market...

Oh like those Chinese sellers that had a gang of friends buy over 100 iPad 2's last year?

My original intention was to keep them, but now I want to get the 32GB version. I'm reselling them at the market price, which seems to be $650-750 for the 16GB, depending on location. I figured since I put in my time to pre-order and probably will have to wait a few weeks for the 32GB, someone who wants one now (and chose not to pre-order or opted not to line up on Friday) can compensate appropriately me for it.

But yeah the professional scalpers are scum.
 
The only reason people bring up the tax implications, is because other people attempt justify this behavior as perfectly legal...its only perfectly legal if the income is reported...

But yes, it is the morality of it, that I think people "hate" on resellers....I know I think little of them and what they do...and as a potential buyer of those products, I am not an uninterested third party to your little transaction, since you, at a minimum, theoretically limit/affect the legitimate availability of said product...

Please explain how a guy who buys 2 iPads to sell, limits availability. I'd love to see the logic on that one.

Someone buys 2 iPads to sell, but then the iPads end up in the hands of people who were going to buy them anyway. Availability is not limited at all.

The seller is happy with the transaction: he makes a couple hundred bucks.
The buyer is happy with the transaction: he gets his device when he wants it.
Apple is happy with the transaction: they sell more iPads.

Everyone is happy. The only upset party is you. Too bad you aren't part of it.

----------

For those of you with a "conscience" (or as it applies to many of you: a lack of capitalist business sense), Let me set up a simple scenario.

For discussion purposes, assume the following:
1. iPads will be readily available in 1 month.
2. I can sell a 64GB wifi for $900 ($200 profit)

Under these circumstances, I could buy an iPad in a month, and have $200 left over. Or, I could keep my iPad I preordered, and forfeit $900.

This is the same as renting an iPad for $200 for the month. No different. Most of you would never dream of doing that. I want an iPad, and I will get one eventually. I'd rather have someone pay me $200 to wait a month.
 
Please explain how a guy who buys 2 iPads to sell, limits availability. I'd love to see the logic on that one.

Someone buys 2 iPads to sell, but then the iPads end up in the hands of people who were going to buy them anyway. Availability is not limited at all.

The seller is happy with the transaction: he makes a couple hundred bucks.
The buyer is happy with the transaction: he gets his device when he wants it.
Apple is happy with the transaction: they sell more iPads.

Everyone is happy. The only upset party is you. Too bad you aren't part of it.

Ok, I will trying a keep this very simple...

You are in front of me in line to by an iPad...you buy the last 2 iPads that store has in stock, with the sole intention of reselling them...I guess you could turn around a offer to sell me one at a hefty markup and somehow that is suppose to make me happy...rinse, repeat and multiply and hundred or thousand fold...

And by the way, if Apple was happy with your behavior there would be no sales limits....
 
and the best part...if it doesn't sell, bring it back! not a penny out of your pocket
 
[/COLOR]For those of you with a "conscience" (or as it applies to many of you: a lack of capitalist business sense), Let me set up a simple scenario.

For discussion purposes, assume the following:
1. iPads will be readily available in 1 month.
2. I can sell a 64GB wifi for $900 ($200 profit)

Under these circumstances, I could buy an iPad in a month, and have $200 left over. Or, I could keep my iPad I preordered, and forfeit $900.

This is the same as renting an iPad for $200 for the month. No different. Most of you would never dream of doing that. I want an iPad, and I will get one eventually. I'd rather have someone pay me $200 to wait a month.

Interesting use of "forfeit"...
 
I keeping thinking I should sell my 16GB one I'm getting Friday and then buy a 32 or 64GB one.
 
Ok, I will trying a keep this very simple...
Don't talk down to me. If you do, get your sentence right.

You are in front of me in line to by an iPad...you buy the last 2 iPads that store has in stock, with the sole intention of reselling them...I guess you could turn around a offer to sell me one at a hefty markup and somehow that is suppose to make me happy...rinse, repeat and multiply and hundred or thousand fold...

And by the way, if Apple was happy with your behavior there would be no sales limits....

Your scenario makes no sense, because if I offered you the last 2 iPads at a hefty markup, you could either buy them or tell me to get lost. Either way, it's your choice. Where's the crime here? If you need another "simple" scenario, feel free to create another.

Apple limiting me to 2 iPads is them doing their part to keep prices DOWN during a time of increased demand. Companies could buy tens of thousands of iPads and set their own price. Apple doesn't care about some dude buying 2 iPads and selling them both. I promise you.
 
Oh like those Chinese sellers that had a gang of friends buy over 100 iPad 2's last year?

My original intention was to keep them, but now I want to get the 32GB version. I'm reselling them at the market price, which seems to be $650-750 for the 16GB, depending on location. I figured since I put in my time to pre-order and probably will have to wait a few weeks for the 32GB, someone who wants one now (and chose not to pre-order or opted not to line up on Friday) can compensate appropriately me for it.

But yeah the professional scalpers are scum.

Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here. Plenty of responses have debated the virtues or immorality of being a reseller so I will not continue to argue these points. I honestly do not think most of you realize how big the reselling business is here in the USA and in Asia. In fact, the vast majority of big time resellers for hard to find items happen to be Chinese. Not sure why this is, but it could be the mindset as I myself happen to dabble in this field with quite a bit of success (nearly 300 units re-sold).

A bit of background in this business: The best practices and ruthlessness of buying up these items were first honed and practiced when the Nintendo Wiis came out. I personally know of several resellers who became millionaires reselling these. So the similar set of skills (quick acting, team work, high credit limits, disguises, multiple credit cards, etc.) were all perfected then. Craigslist is usually the 3rd option or backup option when selling with mass quantities being sold online.

China:

It is so organized in China, that entire teams of 20 to 50 people at a time wearing colored armbands will rove the malls and streets near Apple store during release time commanded by a team leader. With military precision they will swarm the lines and push any other stragglers out of the way. They are willing to camp out for hours sometimes days and are paid by the hour and day. Of course their rates are very low, as most of these are migrant workers that got nothing better to do.

A master reseller was able to buy up 200 Ipad 2 last year in NYC by paying off a bunch of students and old Chinese grandmas. On opening day he then flew with these 200 units to Hong Kong where he had a stall setup and sold out of every single unit in 24 hours making over $40,000.

USA:

Most of the resellers here happen to be graduate students and professionals who have time. There are also a number of full time businesses solely setup to take advantage of these shortages. I remember calling an online retailer last year during the iPad 2 craze and they shared with me (not knowing I too was a reseller) they ended up canceling hundreds of orders as all those were being shipped to the same address with all Asian last names. I will not be shocked to find out there are informal call centers setup in basements and dorm rooms with students working in teams with multiple credit cards and shipping addresses to work the system...whether Apple or any other retailer.

The networks of resellers here often communicate on student billboards and other private messaging systems and Google groups. Their team work was so effective they were shipping hundreds each DAY of Ipad 2 units to China offloading points each week. Everyone getting paid a commission along the way.

I personally witnessed entire extended families queuing up in line in front of Apple stores every single day without fail at 4AM every morning. Some of these folks even hired Hispanics to wait in line with them! Each person was handed cash and were likely able to capture about 10 to 20 units per day per group. So to end up reselling a few hundred units was about the average and by no means that amazing. There are likely resellers who have sold over a thousand units with multiple teams in different parts of the country working together. Any roadblock put up by the retailers including Apple have not really lessened the impact of this gray economy as there are always methods to get around the quantity restrictions (whether through manpower or other techniques).


Summary:

So apologies if this post has offended anyone. I only wanted to share with you that the reselling business is unstoppable. It literally is more high paying in some situations than drug dealing...safer...and with literally no risk (if you keep your receipts) The opportunity to make quite a bit of money is too tempting and it just so happens the Asian folks are laughing all the way to the bank (both from the factory owners, suppliers, and down to the reseller level). It is of course your decision and judgement to partake in the craziness.
 
That was pretty insightful. Thanks, jdcbomb.

I go back and forth a little bit on the issue. I don't think it makes someone a bad person -- I can understand having the incentive and drive for doing this sort of thing. I do still think that I would feel a little bit gross for doing so, but I don't think it makes me a good or bad person. Morals are malleable and it's not a black and white issue.

I will say, honestly -- since I wasn't planning to buy for a month or two anyway -- I see a listing on my local CL from someone who says he's expecting his pre-order on Friday and he can sell soon after it arrives. That would have been such an easy $100 or so. I won't deny that I probably would go back and do the same thing.
 
Someone offered me $3,000 for my The New iPad 64gb 4G LTE AT&T today.

And I said 'nope'.

It's good being rich.

BJ
 
Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here. Plenty of responses have debated the virtues or immorality of being a reseller so I will not continue to argue these points. I honestly do not think most of you realize how big the reselling business is here in the USA and in Asia. In fact, the vast majority of big time resellers for hard to find items happen to be Chinese. Not sure why this is, but it could be the mindset as I myself happen to dabble in this field with quite a bit of success (nearly 300 units re-sold).

A bit of background in this business: The best practices and ruthlessness of buying up these items were first honed and practiced when the Nintendo Wiis came out. I personally know of several resellers who became millionaires reselling these. So the similar set of skills (quick acting, team work, high credit limits, disguises, multiple credit cards, etc.) were all perfected then. Craigslist is usually the 3rd option or backup option when selling with mass quantities being sold online.

China:

It is so organized in China, that entire teams of 20 to 50 people at a time wearing colored armbands will rove the malls and streets near Apple store during release time commanded by a team leader. With military precision they will swarm the lines and push any other stragglers out of the way. They are willing to camp out for hours sometimes days and are paid by the hour and day. Of course their rates are very low, as most of these are migrant workers that got nothing better to do.

A master reseller was able to buy up 200 Ipad 2 last year in NYC by paying off a bunch of students and old Chinese grandmas. On opening day he then flew with these 200 units to Hong Kong where he had a stall setup and sold out of every single unit in 24 hours making over $40,000.

USA:

Most of the resellers here happen to be graduate students and professionals who have time. There are also a number of full time businesses solely setup to take advantage of these shortages. I remember calling an online retailer last year during the iPad 2 craze and they shared with me (not knowing I too was a reseller) they ended up canceling hundreds of orders as all those were being shipped to the same address with all Asian last names. I will not be shocked to find out there are informal call centers setup in basements and dorm rooms with students working in teams with multiple credit cards and shipping addresses to work the system...whether Apple or any other retailer.

The networks of resellers here often communicate on student billboards and other private messaging systems and Google groups. Their team work was so effective they were shipping hundreds each DAY of Ipad 2 units to China offloading points each week. Everyone getting paid a commission along the way.

I personally witnessed entire extended families queuing up in line in front of Apple stores every single day without fail at 4AM every morning. Some of these folks even hired Hispanics to wait in line with them! Each person was handed cash and were likely able to capture about 10 to 20 units per day per group. So to end up reselling a few hundred units was about the average and by no means that amazing. There are likely resellers who have sold over a thousand units with multiple teams in different parts of the country working together. Any roadblock put up by the retailers including Apple have not really lessened the impact of this gray economy as there are always methods to get around the quantity restrictions (whether through manpower or other techniques).


Summary:

So apologies if this post has offended anyone. I only wanted to share with you that the reselling business is unstoppable. It literally is more high paying in some situations than drug dealing...safer...and with literally no risk (if you keep your receipts) The opportunity to make quite a bit of money is too tempting and it just so happens the Asian folks are laughing all the way to the bank (both from the factory owners, suppliers, and down to the reseller level). It is of course your decision and judgement to partake in the craziness.

This as an amazing post and very illuminating too. Thanks for taking the time to fill us on on this segment of the economy or grey market

----------

Someone offered me $3,000 for my The New iPad 64gb 4G LTE AT&T today.

And I said 'nope'.

It's good being rich.

BJ

Can you give him my phone number???:D

----------

Does anyone know Targets policies re returning an iPad? I imagine the lines there will be much much shorter. .
 
Folks pay $1000 for $50 seats to see a concert. That's a "1 time use" ticket. Why wouldn't they pay $1000 for an iPad they could use for years? Why is everyone so shocked?
 
Folks pay $1000 for $50 seats to see a concert. That's a "1 time use" ticket. Why wouldn't they pay $1000 for an iPad they could use for years? Why is everyone so shocked?

yup it's the same thing. like i said earlier, a product is worth what ever someone is willing to pay for it. if people are willing to pay 1K for a new ipad, then that is the REAL value, not what the retail price is.
 
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