Arrest Warrants Issued for 17 People in $1M California Apple Store Theft Ring

[shplock]

Both ideas are bad. Trap desperate criminals in a locked room with scared civilians. You simply endanger innocent customers in an attempt to protect commodity electronics. That makes no sense at all.

SO what do you propose? Get on our knees and kiss the bums of the thieves? By your logic arresting them is sepia as well for the same reason. if you arrest them at home then they are in the same room with relatives/friends who could be scared so best not arrest them. If you arrest them at work then they are trapped with their colleagues who would also be scared, if you take them in the street then passer by citizens would also be scared and so on.
At the end of the day if people are caught up in it then tough! Part of life I am afraid. Life is scary by design, life is not safe and if you wish it to be safe then with respect do not live.
You can get hurt just walking out of your house in the morning.
Plus not all people would be scared, you might be. I for one would kick the living *** out of any thieving so and so and the result would be several ambulances needed for them.
Then again I guess I am lucky that I was trained by the best in the world...The British Army.
[doublepost=1538155513][/doublepost]

This.

Back when my mom was working, she would have to carry a briefcase full of cash to the bank every week. Her boss told her in no uncertain terms that if she were ever robbed, to simply surrender the money and not attempt to fight him off. The money was insured anyways, and her life was more important.

Safety first.

This is why there are things called security guards and people who trained to tackle thieve such as in your scenario. Your mom was not trained, the guards etc are.
Theft is not zero harm game. it affects all sorts of people. I wish people here would stop trying to make out that it harms no one and the thieves should be given the Nobel prize for Peace.
Thieves need to be dealt harshly not loved!
[doublepost=1538155665][/doublepost]

Why brick it when it can track the robbers?

It’s not like Apple doesn’t know every serial number put in the Store before it left the warehouse. As soon as the robber pawns it and the mark puts in their iTunes info Apple can figure out where the stolen devices are moving. Put some pins in a map and stake out some places with PIs and criminals aren’t as clever as they think.
[doublepost=1538112414][/doublepost]
Because that just causes more violence. If people think the staff have a “magic button” then they’ll start harming the staff. Also, Apple is more interested in the brand than a few iPhones in pawn shops. People paid for the devices and probably didn’t know. Those people are going to buy apps and Apple gets its 30%.

It’s the same reason cell companies were so slow to blacklist phones a decade ago. The stolen device has to be used and someone hasn’t to PAY them for it. The company gets some money from a customer that didn’t know and is replacing a broken device or buying an extra line. It’s doe make you customers to go around accusing people of stealing when they’re giving you money.
[doublepost=1538113292][/doublepost]
I agree that we should not dehumanize perpetrators. The goal is to punish the actions, and hopefully get them to be useful members of society again.

But smash and grabs like this really are a type of social violence. It’s not just taking stuff, but daring people to challenge them. They “smash and grab” with customers in the store. They’re basically threatening the owners of the store that the robbers will hurt the customers. The store puts up security, the robbers bring crowbars and hammers. The customers see crowbars and hammers, now people get hurt.. then it’s an arms race to steal more violently.

It’s not just “organized shoplifting” they are making serious implied threats and need to be harshly punished for it.

Except that you can not always refuse to do the right thing simply because the culprit might get violent otherwise we might as let them win, w eight as well let Islamic State rule the US because you know, they might get violent if we do not give in.

 

[truthertech]

ryanwarsaw said: ↑
I am going to guess that Apple has this thing called insurance. That cost is passed on whether they are robbed or not. Some people have some crazy ideas of how Apple could stop the thieves. They simply don't care or try to stop them. It is a bit like what is called "defensive indifference" in baseball. What leaves the store is of no consequence that Apple will let them do it. There would never be a visible security presence or measures in an Apple store. It would ruin the experience.

Except that it harms Apple's image and that brings down the stock and loses Apple, a lot more than the cost of the devices or their insurance.
PLus insurance goes up when you have to make claims, even as a business that is true.
So in the end the customer ends up paying more each year on average.
Letting the criminal get away with it is and for image and bad for business.[/QUOTE]


Lots of confusion here. First,99.9% of companies are self-insured when it comes to shoplifters. Insurance companies are going to insure businesses for shoplifting losses. First, there's no way to determine what is a shoplifting loss versus employee theft vs business fraud. The cost of processing shoplifting claims would also be prohibitively high, so the cost of such insurance would far outweigh any benefit.

Second, you must not visit many Apple stores if you believe "there would never be a visible security presence in an Apple store." Many Apple stores have uniformed private security. In fact, Apple couldn't effectively operate in some areas without them

 

[shplock]

What does Apple have on display that's any use when stolen? Phones, Watches, iPads and Macs can all be remotely locked. What are the thieves doing to get around this?

Maybe they are not. Maybe they are doing it again and again because they are dumb enough to think that if they do it again then the phones etc will not be locked and useless.

 

[69Mustang]

<snipped for clarity and brevity>

Dealing with retail theft is a solved problem. You let them go, do not interfere, let police catch them outside your premises, and deal with insurance. Plain and simple. It has been that way for some time. The reductionist logic used in your argument is silly. To argue against it lends credence to it absurdity. Suffice it to say, none of those comical solutions you proposed will ever be implemented.

 

[triton100]

There are also a scam where a girl goes in an Apple Store. She tells customers if she can borrow their phone because hers is not working and she needs to make a desperate call. She says she will try to put her SIM in the customer’s phone to call her friend. If she is successful she says she can’t get a signal and they need to go outside. Then her accomplice outside steals the customer’s phone from her hand and runs away.

You forgot the part where the girl then asks for the person’s wallet so she can store their sim inside while she puts hers in, then she asks if she can hold the wallet, as she has balance issues when standing up holding phones and the wallet helps her balance, then she asks the person if they can go make a cup of tea as she is thirsty and needs to drink something before calling her friend, but because there are no tea making facilities in the Apple store, she asks the person to go to the nearest Starbucks to order one, and that she will make the call while gone, and then drink the tea on return. And if any person refuses to help lend their phone in that situation, then I’ve lost all faith in humanity.

 

[jlc1978]

There would never be a visible security presence or measures in an Apple store. It would ruin the experience.

Every US Apple Store I have been in has had a uniformed security guard, usually an off duty cop.

 

[ryanwarsaw]

Every US Apple Store I have been in has had a uniformed security guard, usually an off duty cop.

Okay that isn't the case outside of the USA where I have been. My gist remains that they won't put up barricades and bars etc. They will not turn their store into a prison atmosphere to prevent theft which they are insured for.

 

[truthertech]

Okay that isn't the case outside of the USA where I have been. My gist remains that they won't put up barricades and bars etc. They will not turn their store into a prison atmosphere to prevent theft which they are insured for.

Now as far as insurance--that Apple doesn't carry insurance against shoplifting. The cost of such insurance doesn't make sense for businesses. Insurance companies aren't going to offer insurance against a loss that is essentially unprovable, except at ridiculously high rates to cover losses as companies turn in claims for employee theft, "shrinkage," and just fraud.

In the business world, shoplifting is instead passed on to consumers or the owner eats it. That's why small business owners don't put up with it. Apple has to have deterrents in place, such as visible security, or they would get huge losses as everyone realized they could just walk in and take stuff.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

You forgot the part where the girl then asks for the person’s wallet so she can store their sim inside while she puts hers in, then she asks if she can hold the wallet, as she has balance issues when standing up holding phones and the wallet helps her balance, then she asks the person if they can go make a cup of tea as she is thirsty and needs to drink something before calling her friend, but because there are no tea making facilities in the Apple store, she asks the person to go to the nearest Starbucks to order one, and that she will make the call while gone, and then drink the tea on return. And if any person refuses to help lend their phone in that situation, then I’ve lost all faith in humanity.

I know how you feel /s

 

[Ntombi]

Every US Apple Store I have been in has had a uniformed security guard, usually an off duty cop.

Okay that isn't the case outside of the USA where I have been. My gist remains that they won't put up barricades and bars etc. They will not turn their store into a prison atmosphere to prevent theft which they are insured for.

I’ve only seen visible security in a couple of Apple Stores that I’ve been to in the USA. None of my local SoCal stores have them (IIRC).

 

[truthertech]

I’ve only seen visible security in a couple of Apple Stores that I’ve been to in the USA. None of my local SoCal stores have them (IIRC).

Apple bases it on the local culture, e.g., crime, presence/aggressiveness of panhandlers, etc., who will confront staff and customers, where each store is located

 

[triton100]

Apple bases it on the local culture, e.g., crime, presence/aggressiveness of panhandlers, etc., who will confront staff and customers, where each store is located

London’s a very violent city nowadays. (Google it) and the regent street central London’s store has many guards, but gangs have still raided it with no issues at all.

 

[Abazigal]

It is interesting how lax the security seems at every Apple store. By design, of course. Do they still allow you to order things online, walk in, take it off the shelf and then just walk out?

I did that once at my apple store (also partly because I wanted to try this out). Bought an apple iPhone case, paid for it via the apple store app, then walked out. On the way out, I just "casually" waved my phone case to the attendant standing by the door and told him that I had paid for it (partly because I was unsure of the process and to cover my own behind), and he just went "Sure, go ahead. I am not going to stop you".

So either they have their own process for determining who is walking out with unpaid goods, or caring about this sort of stuff is beyond their pay grade. Cool either way.

 

[travelsheep]

 

[dumoore]

That's some kind of internet myth. You've never been able to do that.

You're joking right? I do this all the time. You can in fact open the apple store app, scan an item and pay for it and walk out, emailed receipt. All without ever talking to an employee.

 

[dumoore]

Update: From what I heard second-hand so take it how you will, the apprehension was two parted. Apple is lax with security as noted in many other comments. Angela wants the stores to be hangout spots. You can literally pay for something with your phone without employees. But it's kind of bad press for Apple for the stores to be targeted so easily and frequently.

1) Apple updated their demo software on some of their devices in the Bay Area where it's highly likely to get hit again by the same group. And of course they got hit. The software instead of instantly bricking this time and becoming useless allowed the thief to assume they got away with some devices that are fully working. After seemingly wiping the phone they attempted to sell it. The wipe didn't clear the firmware with the GPS tracking. Only a matter of time before they met up with one of the guys trying to sell the device. He ratted on his friends pretty quickly with a promise of not getting felony charges of $1mil theft.

2) Cops have been posing as customers on craigslist and such, for the devices / parts that were stolen. There's some lack of clarity on if this tactic resulted in finding any parts with serial numbers of the stolen devices or if it was solely step #1 that resulted in the arrests.

 

[ceriess]

That's how I bought my EarPods last year.

Then you stole a pair of EarPods. You cannot buy online, walk in and take product off the shelf. That’s not how it works, and if you were able to follow along with the messages you receive telling you your product was ready for pickup, you would know this. I don’t know. Maybe you really aren’t able to understand how this works, but for the rest of us we are all filled with doubt about your comment.

 

[tooloud10]

What's the point of robbing those Apple bricks? They can't be used, they can't be sold. You can only use them for their parts and those parts don't worth much without the Apple markup. The devices don't worth anything if they can't be used as how Apple intended.

That’s the dumb thing about this. $1M retail of products that can only be used for parts means they’re actually worth a tiny fraction of that amount, split between 17 people?
[doublepost=1538245595][/doublepost]

Apple will write off and pass the cost to us.

So, like every other business that is subjected to theft?

Also, “write off” means they absorb the loss, not that there’s some magical way to recoup the loss.

 

[goobot]

Then you stole a pair of EarPods. You cannot buy online, walk in and take product off the shelf. That’s not how it works, and if you were able to follow along with the messages you receive telling you your product was ready for pickup, you would know this. I don’t know. Maybe you really aren’t able to understand how this works, but for the rest of us we are all filled with doubt about your comment.

Lol I didn’t order it online. You can open the Apple store app and in person scan it and use Apple Pay to pay. It then emailed me a receipt so I obviously didn’t steal it. Oh and I learned about how to do this from a MacRumors article XD XD. But yes tell me I don’t understand how things work. Lmao.

And to because I’m not just some idiot on the internet who believes everything I say is pure fact I’ll use proof!!!!

 

[AppleFan910]

They’ll probably get a slap on the wrist.
[doublepost=1538265204][/doublepost]

They do

Most of the test devices are limited in use. They have a special OS installed to limit the features. Apple feels that it’s better to have a few of these robberies versus using the security latch. People usually buy after touching and handling a device. The “puppy dog” sales effect.

 

[DeepIn2U]

[doublepost=1538154533][/doublepost]

So are you trying to justify what they do? That because they stole and did not rape that makes it ok? That because we should automatically think they stole because they come from a broken home? Lots of people come from the same backgrounds or have the same problems yet they do not turn to crime.
In the end there are virtually no excuses as to why they steal or do any other form of crime(let us not forget that because they steal it does not mean that is all they do, they could be involved in drugs as well - hence why they steal to fund their habits).
The choices are on them and the consequences are on them, not my fault or anyone else's.
They did the crime and should do the time...no excuses.
I have read all three of your quoted books and in the bible it says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, it also says that god has already judged mankind guilty, even before we are born as babies we are already guilty in his eyes.
So that tells us all we need to know. Lock them up and throw away the key, basically says so in the bible.

You didn’t read my post then, and eye for an eye is completely taken out of context.

I did NOT say the shoe doesn’t fit true crime. Calling any human being an animal as to intend to mean lower than cognitive function of a human being is not akin to this crime or any other. I said it lowers yourself (whom I’ve quoted). Simple as that. Grass is always greener on the other side and until you’ve had to struggle for every meal or shelter to live for years you cannot ever say you’ve lived in a person shoes long enough to judge the reason why they do what they do and state it’s no excuse. Thats my stance sticking to it yet please don’t misconstrue my words. Thanks

 

[T-R-S]

Lol I didn’t order it online. You can open the Apple store app and in person scan it and use Apple Pay to pay. It then emailed me a receipt so I obviously didn’t steal it. Oh and I learned about how to do this from a MacRumors article XD XD. But yes tell me I don’t understand how things work. Lmao.

And to because I’m not just some idiot on the internet who believes everything I say is pure fact I’ll use proof!!!!

dude just ask an employee to pay takes 15 seconds - that was way too complicated

 

[goobot]

dude just ask an employee to pay takes 15 seconds - that was way too complicated

If you have Apple Pay it’s a lot easier, I couldn’t find other videos online other than this one and this guy makes it way more complicated but still.

 

[Rajani Isa]

Hahaha!! I know what you mean! The bit that makes me laugh is that they try and downplay the "cost California business owners millions" bit by following it up with "and ultimately lead to consumers paying the cost". (are they suggesting that the only reason that Apple are overcharging us for iPhones is because of robberys like this, and that now they have caught the culprits, prices will start coming down, being passed onto the consumer???

Hahaha! Yeah, pull the other one! (they must think we were born yesterday!)

They’r not Saying the phones will get way cheaper magically if people don’t steal. But the prices rise more slowly if they’re not having to deal with theft. And even with insurance, theft costs.

 

[truthertech]

Dealing with retail theft is a solved problem. You let them go, do not interfere, let police catch them outside your premises, and deal with insurance. Plain and simple. It has been that way for some time. The reductionist logic used in your argument is silly. To argue against it lends credence to it absurdity. Suffice it to say, none of those comical solutions you proposed will ever be implemented.

People have to stop spreading the fake news that retail stores carry "insurance" to pay for most shoplifting. To start with, there's no way to establish that a shoplift took place versus employee theft versus fraud by the business owner. Sales a little slow today? Just call up your insurance carrier and tell them you had some "shoplifts." Inventory shows some missing items at the end of the month, voila "shoplifting." Then you have the cost to process claims which would be enormous and exceed the value of most stolen items. No, the vast majority of shoplifting/retail theft are a "self-insured" loss to the retailer who passes that cost on to consumers or absorbs it.
[doublepost=1538324505][/doublepost]

You're joking right? I do this all the time. You can in fact open the apple store app, scan an item and pay for it and walk out, emailed receipt. All without ever talking to an employee.

You've got to read more closely. He said he ordered something on line and then just walked in a took something off the shelf and walked out. No, you can't do that.