Arstechnica review

[tevion]

I work with allot of Big Data Engineers. Every single one of them works with Macbooks, even if work doesn't provide one with them when they initially join they'll use their personal ones until they do. None of them code anything Apple related, it's all AWS tooling.

Not a single one of them would ever move from a Macbook, ever. However, not a single one of them wants the new one. They're all waiting for a Kabylake refresh and 32GB RAM version.

That for me highlights the problem for Apple.. One of their most captive customers doesn't want their latest product in that line.

 

[maratus]

I agree. When rMBP was announced in 2012 it was a no-brainer. Best screen in the world alone was worth the price tag.
When rMBP was announced in 2016.... it's just a downgrade on so many aspects, a very controversial product.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

At least you're free to choose your laptop's network adapter with TB. I'm not sure if all laptops are capable to run close to a gigabit from their ethernet port using built-in network interface. I've had some issues with random mid-range laptops having bad network performance

No I wouldn't use a laptop for that not even with an adapter. Laptops and adapters are not reliable or stable enough. Even for wifi skyping we have so much traffic that our chats get disconnected. For heavy reliable transfers you have to use a workstation and wired connections.

 

[Howard2k]

The fastest leased lines possible direct to the fastest FTP servers in Asia. Of course if you try to do calculations based on rounded up figures then you are not going to get exact numbers.

How are you overcoming the inherent latency issues FTP?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

How are you overcoming the inherent latency issues FTP?

Yes sometimes the FTP responds slowly or clogs up. Once it gets going or when there is less traffic then I'm happy. The FTP is integrated with Amazon S3.

 

[therealseebs]

Its called engineering there will be negative and positive tradeoffs for each and every decision. Making something thicker might just be making it thicker and for no purpose.

No, we have very specific purposes in mind.

And the thing is, yes, there are tradeoffs. And what you do about this when you have a product line, and are not required to ship exactly one product which has to be the only product for anyone, is you make different tradeoffs in different products.

Apple's chosen not to have people like me target their platforms anymore. And maybe we're not that large a population, but we're out there, and we're gradually migrating away from supporting their platforms, because they've made it uncomfortable and unpleasant for us.

I fail to understand why portability shouldn't take precedence over legacy ports on a machine when desktop devices can still support these legacy ports just fine. I think it's just not realistic.

It frustrates me that you fail to understand it when it's been repeatedly explained.

I tend to be a desk-to-desk laptop user. I want to have my machine move with me, but it will spend most of its time at a desk. Or at two different desks. I don't want a "desktop" machine; I want a laptop that can do the work. Everyone but Apple will sell me that machine. Apple used to, and you can still sorta bodge it together if you absolutely need to, but it's a royal pain, and it comes with awful tradeoffs.

 

[Howard2k]

Yes sometimes the FTP responds slowly or clogs up. Once it gets going or when there is less traffic then I'm happy. The FTP is integrated with Amazon S3.

I'd love to hear more about your setup, sounds kinda cool. How are you doing your storage and networking today?

 

[therealseebs]

No I wouldn't use a laptop for that not even with an adapter. Laptops and adapters are not reliable or stable enough. Even for wifi skyping we have so much traffic that our chats get disconnected. For heavy reliable transfers you have to use a workstation and wired connections.

I have never, ever, had any trouble with reliability or stability of laptop Ethernet unless the Ethernet was RealTek. I've been using fancy gigabit hardware in Apple laptops since they started shipping it, and I'm still using Ethernet with my laptop right now (through an elgato dock), and... No problems, at all. Rock solid.

There's a reason I want Ethernet.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I'd love to hear more about your setup, sounds kinda cool. How are you doing your storage and networking today?

The FTP/S3 set up belongs to a partner in Asia.

Internally we are just another corporate network with the biggest lease line we can afford. We're 90 percent Macs even if the bugs in recent years are hurting us. The Macs that handle data and traffic best are older Mac Pros with fibre channel.

 

[Howard2k]

The FTP/S3 set up belongs to a partner in Asia.

Internally we are just another corporate network with the biggest lease line we can afford. We're 90 percent Macs even if the bugs in recent years are hurting us. The Macs that handle data and traffic best are older Mac Pros with fibre channel.

Awesome. How do you manage the data transfers from you MB Pro? Are you using fibre channel?

 

[anoobis]

I'm a developer. Have released iOS apps since early '13. One of our apps was #9 on the paid list for Sports and required working with 100 videos. Ethernet is nice, but I've never missed it. I've used a mid '12 Air and have had a '12 iMac for when I'm in the office. I never use the iMac nowadays as I'm rarely in the office.

I ordered the base 15 pro the night they were available. Was excited though a little disappointed, but the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I will cancel simply because of the $2399 entry price (for an older CPU generation, incremental screen improvement) vs $1999 for the base 15" before.

The problem is, what am I waiting for? I don't want to wait until fall '17 for price drops on Macbook Pro's and I don't know what plans Apple has for a desktop refresh in early '17, if at all.

I could get a 2015 iMac, and keep my Air for on-the-go, but the 2015 iMac is overdue for a refresh. I could wait for early '17 for a new iMac version but I'm more or less blindly hoping for a refresh.

Frustrating....I need an early '17 MacBook Pro price drop or an early '17 iMac refresh for my wait to be worthwhile.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Awesome. How do you manage the data transfers from you MB Pro? Are you using fibre channel?

Sometimes. I hop between 3-4 workstations depending on location. When we receive media back from our partners then the files are even larger and have to be downloaded across many workstations.

 

[wegster]

So, consider: I'm a programmer. (Not mostly desktop apps, mind. But it's what I do.) I would guess that a very significant proportion of the people I talk to about computers are programmers. Many of them have Macs.

And every single one of them that I've talked to has said "I would much rather have a slightly thicker machine with Ethernet." And in general, most of the developers I know would rather have a slightly thicker machine that can run at higher load for longer at lower temperatures because it has heat sinks, and would rather have more ports than fewer, and would rather have a keyboard with better typing feel even if that makes things thicker.

And that's what worries me: Apple's been increasingly dismissive of developers. And back when iOS was dominating the smartphone market, I didn't really see myself as having the option of ignoring it. Now... It's not such an easy thing, and stuff like the iPhone 7 omitting the headphone jack has certainly not made me optimistic about continued adoption rates.

Yep. Full team has been waiting on the new models for 32GB of RAM (or more) and stronger CPU/GPUs, with the ability to run at full performance for longer.

Ethernet I see as less concerning - absolutely useful and a 'missed' port for many, but something a single good dongle would do, e.g. Apple packages or sells a mini-dock or a dongle with USB-C, ethernet, mini-DP and HDMI 2.0 (concurrent outputs for video must be supported), and just plug the single dongle in when at desk and you're good. As it is now..not so nice, and it's beyond unlikely we'll be doing a refresh with the current offering.

 

[Howard2k]

Sometimes. I hop between 3-4 workstations depending on location. When we receive media back from our partners then the files are even larger and have to be downloaded across many workstations.

But how do you get that mass quantity of data on and off the MBPro?

 

[RetinaFarts]

]
I ordered the base 15 pro the night they were available. Was excited though a little disappointed, but the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I will cancel simply because of the $2399 entry price (for an older CPU generation, incremental screen improvement) vs $1999 for the base 15" before.

How is it an older CPU? The Kaby Lake CPUs for the 15" won't be out for 5-8months! And the improvement from Kaby Lake is relatively minor anyways.

 

[anoobis]

How is it an older CPU? The Kaby Lake CPUs for the 15" won't be out for 5-8months! And the improvement from Kaby Lake is relatively minor anyways.

Skylake is a year old. Kaby Lake has been out on laptops for over a month e.g. Dell XPS.

You're correct, the quad core isn't out, but Skylake is still old, to me, for $2400.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

But how do you get that mass quantity of data on and off the MBPro?

We only transfer media to and from the workstations the job we are concurrently assigned to (some people just work straight off the server, but that can be a big pain without fibre channel). The biggest movement of data is from the in-house file servers directly to the FTP server, and then back again.

Wifi is impossible to use in such a heavy traffic environment. Good for emails on mobile devices only.

 

[RetinaFarts]

Skylake is a year old. Kaby Lake has been out on laptops for over a month e.g. Dell XPS.

Only 15W CPUs with GT2 graphics. No chips that Apple would use are available. The quad core 45W CPUs only came out a few months ago as well. Stop spreading nonsense.

 

[anoobis]

Only 15W CPUs with GT2 graphics. No chips that Apple would use are available. The quad core 45W CPUs only came out a few months ago as well. Stop spreading nonsense.

Skylake isn't a year old? Dell XPS doesn't use Kaby Lake?

btw, welcome to the forum, noob

 

[RetinaFarts]

Skylake isn't a year old? Dell XPS doesn't use Kaby Lake?

btw, welcome to the forum, noob

Kaby Lake Quad Cores are not out. Show me where you can buy a laptop with one?

 

[Howard2k]

We only transfer media to and from the workstations the job we are concurrently assigned to (some people just work straight off the server, but that can be a big pain without fibre channel). The biggest movement of data is from the in-house file servers directly to the FTP server, and then back again.

Wifi is impossible to use in such a heavy traffic environment. Good for emails on mobile devices only.

ok thanks. I think I misunderstood, i thought you were doing that with a MBPRo today, but I believe you're using more powerful workstations to do that.

1TB in 1 hour is 2.2Gb/s. I guess you're just dumping that to a local SAN and it's mirroring to the cloud from there? Still pretty impressive though... That much bandwidth is very bug dollar signs!

 

[Ries]

How is it an older CPU? The Kaby Lake CPUs for the 15" won't be out for 5-8months! And the improvement from Kaby Lake is relatively minor anyways.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3113...-chip-is-a-must-have-for-4k-video-fiends.html

It has a beefed up media engine, is way faster to clock up and thereby completing small jobs faster (i.e more responsive internet browsing).

It should be out in December/January with GT2, which is what Apple uses on the 15".
http://wccftech.com/intel-roadmap-kaby-lake-coffee-lake-cannonlake-leak/

 

[jackoatmon]

 

[maratus]

Skylake isn't a year old? Dell XPS doesn't use Kaby Lake?

btw, welcome to the forum, noob

Who's the noob here is a big, big question