Artificial Intelligence In Our Lives

[turbineseaplane]

This is very much a kind of problem we've had before. It's called automation and it always works like this.

This is potentially FAR beyond the disruptions that automation caused.

 

[eyoungren]

Recently, I was working with a couple of guys to troubleshoot a pesky battery charging problem on a sailboat. I have an Engineering background, and the other two guys are in sales and marketing. And, none of us are articulately good with marine electronics. Anyway, it was one of those strange intermittent charging issues that seemed to shift between battery banks. To work through the problem, one guy asked AI questions while the two of us checked contacts and continuity. In about 45 minutes, we figured out that it was a bad in-line fuse on a grounding wire. If we had to call a marine electronics tech, it would have cost $500++ and might not have been resolved. What impressed me was how the guy asking AI questions was so natural in his queries. He had almost zero electronics background, but he really knew how to use the tool.

When we were done, the three of us were kind of surprised at how well it worked and how effective AI was at diagnosing the problem. The guy asking AI questions during the troubleshooting said, "I am not concerned about AI taking my job, but I am concerned about a person taking my job who is better than me at using AI." It was an interesting point.

BTW - For those that think blue collar workers are immune from AI disruption, this is an example of a $500++ job that an electronics tech did not get because of AI.

I can see that. OTOH, blue collar workers made $950 off me this morning because I have neither the tools, experience or inclination to be trying to replace my own alternator on a modern car. All the AI instructions and means to do it, right there at my fingertips. But could I trust the car afterwards? It involves the cooling system, the exhaust system and belts/belt tensioners. Just out of my league.

I tried doing engine work once on my 1980 Datsun 210. Pulled the head and could not figure out how to get it all back together afterwards. That cost $800 in early 1990s money, part of which was a fee because the blue collar mechanics had to correct things I'd done wrong.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I may be in the minority here but, I see AI (as a whole) as a detriment to self-initiative and intellectualism. I see it devolving interpersonal relationships much worse than social media already has. All of this is encouraging people to be mindlessly lazy. Some will rebuttal with AI can save you time. My retort to that is if the time saved removes emotion, cognitive awareness, initiative, and inspiration, more than seconds and moments have been lost. The road ahead for society does not look good at all, in my opinion.

No more handwritten letters
Phone calls have predominantly been replaced by texts filled with emojis, and meaningless tripe like LOL, OMG, and other brainless acronyms.
Society has become addicted to meaningless drivel and it makes me sad that so many crave it more than sharing and caring with others in meaningful ways like we did 15 years ago.

I totally agree with all of this Robert.

It’s a big reason why I’m so turned off by the technology.

It’s incredibly antihuman.

 

[eyoungren]

I may be in the minority here but, I see AI (as a whole) as a detriment to self-initiative and intellectualism. I see it devolving interpersonal relationships much worse than social media already has. All of this is encouraging people to be mindlessly lazy. Some will rebuttal with AI can save you time. My retort to that is if the time saved removes emotion, cognitive awareness, initiative, and inspiration, more than seconds and moments have been lost. The road ahead for society does not look good at all, in my opinion.

No more handwritten letters
Phone calls have predominantly been replaced by texts filled with emojis, and meaningless tripe like LOL, OMG, and other brainless acronyms.
Society has become addicted to meaningless drivel and it makes me sad that so many crave it more than sharing and caring with others in meaningful ways like we did 15 years ago.

Just one note on that…emojis and text abbreviations are not new. Stuff like that was already a part of online lexicon in the late 1980s and early 1990s when Bulletin Board Systems were the social online media.

I got my first AFK, BRB sometime in 1990 when the user I was chatting with (SysOP chat) had to run off for a second.

My point is that some things started devolving (if you like) well before 15 years ago.

 

[redheeler]

This is potentially FAR beyond the disruptions that automation caused.

Industrialization polluted entire cities and privatized all the gains to the society's elite. Automation eliminated many thousands of specialized jobs and privatized all the gains to the society's elite. Different plays, same capitalism playbook.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Industrialization polluted entire cities and privatized all the gains. Automation eliminated many thousands of jobs and privatized all the gains. Different plays, same capitalism playbook.

I’m not disagreeing about the kind. I’m disagreeing about the potential scale.
We are talking past each other a little bit.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I totally agree with all of this Robert.

It’s a big reason why I’m so turned off by the technology.

It’s incredibly antihuman.

Antihuman is exactly right. Everywhere you look people have their heads and hands glued to their phones, even while they are driving. Families out at dinner and everyone is doom scrolling instead of putting the tech away and experiencing the moment and interacting together as a family. I see it all the time and it makes me sad that our society has gotten to the point where so many can't seem to function without social media and the internet 24/7. All of that can't be good for dating and marriage, not to mention kids in school.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Antihuman is exactly right. Everywhere you looks people have their heads and hands glued to their phones, even while they are driving. Families out at dinner and everyone is doom scrolling instead of putting the tech away and experiencing the moment and interacting together as a family. I see it all the time and it makes me sad that our society has gotten to the point where so many can't seem to function without social media and the internet 24/7. All of that can't be good for dating and marriage, not to mention kids in school.

It’s no wonder seemingly everyone is on antidepressants and anxiety medication.

(no I don’t mean everybody literally but it’s incredible how many people are on meds… I’ve been shocked to find out how many people I know are in this category and I didn’t know it)

 

[redheeler]

I’m not disagreeing about the kind. I’m disagreeing about the potential scale.
We are talking past each other a little bit.

It's true that because of the internet and how everything is connected, things have the potential to happen on a bigger scale now than 20+ years ago. The impact to those affected by it will feel very much the same though.

And really when you think about it, this started long before AI. It started with outsourcing when people could be paid less and still do the same work remotely (or at least it looked like the same work to those at the top).

 

[turbineseaplane]

It's true that because of the internet and how everything is connected, things have the potential to happen on a bigger scale now than 20+ years ago. The impact to those affected by it will feel very much the same though.

And it’s beyond the Internet.

So many societies have gone to so much white collar work that all is threatened potentially (to varying but growing degrees), which doesn’t even touch on all the creative work angles.

I think we should be much more concerned about all of this.

I wish there were more dialogue about it, as opposed to trying to jam AI in everything, everywhere, just try to win the race… with little regard to what is being raced towards.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Just one note on that…emojis and text abbreviations are not new. Stuff like that was already a part of online lexicon in the late 1980s and early 1990s when Bulletin Board Systems were the social online media.

I got my first AFK, BRB sometime in 1990 when the user I was chatting with (SysOP chat) had to run off for a second.

My point is that some things started devolving (if you like) well before 15 years ago.

Fair point, E. I saw it then and I didn't like it anymore than I do now.

Yesterday I hand-wrote a romantic letter for a lady. I could have typed it on my Mac, printed it out and signed it with a pen but, in my mind, that would have been somewhat impersonal. And much of the feeling and all that transcended in those moments of writing by hand would not be as emotionally translated and received had I typed it out on the Mac.

I readily admit I am old school and I hate to see the personal touch (as it were) be forever replaced by the latest tech.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Fair point, E. I saw it then and I didn't like it anymore than I do now.

Yesterday I hand-wrote a romantic letter for a lady. I could have typed it on my Mac, printed it out and signed it with a pen but, in my mind, that would have been somewhat impersonal. And much of the feeling and all that transcended in those moments of writing by hand would not be as emotionally translated and received had I typed it out on the Mac.

I readily admit I am old school and I hate to see the personal touch (as it were) be forever replaced by the latest tech.

So interesting you bring up this example.

I have been dating somebody these last few months and I’m very much a handwritten note and card person and it has been commented on more than once that I am “classic”, “ old school” and “ traditional”.

These are things being said very much in a positive sense and I think it highlights how much of that has been lost in the broader society.

Along those lines, I actually journal with pen on paper as well.
It connects me with the process and the material in a way a digital connection simply does not.

 

[Apple_Robert]

It’s no wonder seemingly everyone is on antidepressants and anxiety medication.

(no I don’t mean everybody literally but it’s incredible how many people are on meds… I’ve been shocked to find out how many people I know are in this category and I didn’t know it)

You bring up a good interrelated point. I think it parallels the adult pacifier madness (read: vaping) that adults and children alike are constantly doing along with doom scrolling and popping pills to cope in this brave new world that has been created.

 

[Apple_Robert]

So interesting you bring up this example.

I have been dating somebody these last few months and I’m very much a handwritten note and card person and it has been commented on more than once that I am “classic”, “ old school” and “ traditional”.

These are things being said very much in a positive sense and I think it highlights how much of that has been lost in the broader society.

Along those lines, I actually journal with pen on paper as well.
It connects me with the process and the material in a way a digital connection simply does not.

I think in another 10 years, our old school ways will be highlighted in museums.

 

[redheeler]

I wish there were more dialogue about it, as opposed to trying to jam AI in everything, everywhere, just try to win the race… with little regard to what is being raced towards.

Oh yes, there are so many pitches which just go on and on about how AI can do anything. What I like about working in a technical field is I can visualize how bad their codebase is going to look after a few months of that sweet sweet vibe coding 😂

Of course I use AI as a tool, but if I let that thing go without a good system design and very specific prompting it duplicates code all over the place, thousands of tokens and sometimes multiple prompts are needed for the simplest changes and it just gets worse and worse the longer it goes on.

Honestly, letting me focus on system design and handling the boiler plate generation? Not a bad thing at all though.

 

[eyoungren]

Yesterday I hand-wrote a romantic letter for a lady. I could have typed it on my Mac, printed it out and signed it with a pen but, in my mind, that would have been somewhat impersonal. And much of the feeling and all that transcended in those moments of writing by hand would not be as emotionally translated and received had I typed it out on the Mac.

I readily admit I am old school and I hate to see the personal touch (as it were) be forever replaced by the latest tech.

My wife and I are very glad that by the time our children start looking through the massive piles of paper that we will leave behind, we won't be around.

We've been married over 28 years now and at some point it became evident that there were enough cards and letters to make our children run off and take lifetime vows of celibacy. Fortunately, for those reasons (and some others) the cards and letters that were written when we were dating are now conveniently missing.

 

[Mainsail]

I can see that. OTOH, blue collar workers made $950 off me this morning because I have neither the tools, experience or inclination to be trying to replace my own alternator on a modern car. All the AI instructions and means to do it, right there at my fingertips. But could I trust the car afterwards? It involves the cooling system, the exhaust system and belts/belt tensioners. Just out of my league.

I tried doing engine work once on my 1980 Datsun 210. Pulled the head and could not figure out how to get it all back together afterwards. That cost $800 in early 1990s money, part of which was a fee because the blue collar mechanics had to correct things I'd done wrong.

Definitely. I am not saying all blue collar tasks will be disrupted. I am simply saying that blue collar is not immune from disruption.

It is very difficult for me to give career advice to young people graduating from HS. I am happy I have been retired for over a decade! But, I worry about my kids future (26-31 y.o.). All three went to college and grad school, but there is no telling what the future will hold.

 

[eyoungren]

Definitely. I am not saying all blue collar tasks will be disrupted. I am simply saying that blue collar is not immune from disruption.

It is very difficult for me to give career advice to young people graduating from HS. I am happy I have been retired for over a decade! But, I worry about my kids future (26-31 y.o.). All three went to college and grad school, but there is no telling what the future will hold.

My son is 22. He graduated from ASU (Arizona State University) with a degree in IT last year. It took him almost 9 months to find a part time job at Staples as a cashier. One of the managers there did want him though, because they have him handle any computer issues that customers bring in. I'm hoping that by sticking with it, he can find a way into the Staples IT department. But who knows.

My daughter graduates high school next week. She's 17 and looking at a career in HVAC. Not because she has any interest in air conditioning or is mechanically inclined, but she figures that doing HVAC work in Phoenix, AZ will keep her employed and pay well enough to fund her artistic endeavors.

Like you though, there is no telling what the future will hold for them.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Speaking of AI in our lives, this is a sobering and depressing read over at Wired.
I've included a few select pulls from the piece below.


There’s a strange and under-discussed side effect of the AI boom: what it’s doing to family dynamics. By which I mean: how it’s potentially destroying family dynamics.


“ARE YOU LOOKING?” he shouted again. I wasn’t. I was looking at our real baby. But that’s the thing. There are two babies in this household now: the small human one and the large language model. Both demand constant attention. Both keep us up at 2 am.


They’ve tried everything else, these men, from writing screenplays to investing in crypto. It’s AI or bust. Their partners, meanwhile, have quietly taken on a second job: emotional support. Chief Existential Officer, uncompensated. No one asked us if we wanted the gig.




Article link

 

[turbineseaplane]

Also, 404 has a piece today titled "Software Developers Say AI Is Rotting Their Brains"
Link

...more and more people are becoming disillusioned with the promise of code generated by large language models.
“We're being told to use [AI] agents for broad changes across our codebase. There's no way to evaluate whether that much code is well-written or secure—especially when hundreds of other programmers in the company are doing the same,” a UX designer at a midsized tech company told me.


Tech companies have also been bragging about their “tokenmaxxing,” or how much money they’re spending on AI tools instead of human employees.


...the adoption of AI tools they see internally isn’t voluntary or organic. Developers say they are either explicitly ordered to use AI tools or heavily pressured to use them.

 

[Queen6]

AI is a tool like many others, however it will be used against the general populous to enrich those who already have more money than they can spend in multiple lifetimes. Social Media is all over it as they want you on your devices 24/7 for the ad revenue. Very much agree people are becoming more isolated, lack communication skills and outwrite rude as they are addicted to their phones...

Without a significant breakthrough AI will just keep consuming ever more resources with a small rewards. I use AI from time to time, but as a tool not a crutch. IMO all Big-Tech needs reigning as they are far too focused on profit versus the harm they do. But money is money and that's all they care about.

Q-6

 

[Mousse]

I wonder…when humans are completely replaced by automation/AI and therefore lose the financial means to afford and purchase products that are for sale, at what point does business fail? And what is the reaction?

Sounds like the plot of Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano.

Phone calls have predominantly been replaced by texts filled with emojis, and meaningless tripe like LOL, OMG, and other brainless acronyms.

Those brainless acronyms existed long before AI, heck, before computers existed. Geezers remember BOHICA (bend over, here it comes again), FUBAR (F'ed Up Beyond All Recognition, FAFO (F*** Around and Find Out) and the most famous of all, SNAFU (Situtation Normal, All F'ed Up). FUBAR and SNAFU were popular in the early days of the Web. FAFO is still popular today.

 

[eyoungren]

Those brainless acronyms existed long before AI, heck, before computers existed. Geezers remember BOHICA (bend over, here it comes again), FUBAR (F'ed Up Beyond All Recognition, FAFO (F*** Around and Find Out) and the most famous of all, SNAFU (Situtation Normal, All F'ed Up). FUBAR and SNAFU were popular in the early days of the Web. FAFO is still popular today.

SNAFU and FUBAR are military terms. That is, that's where they originated. SNAFU from WWII and FUBAR from the Vietnam war period.

The military is full of acronyms.

PS. FAFO. That term is relatively new to me, although the concept has been around for a long time. Back in the 90s I heard it described as 'You F with the bull, you get the horn'.

 

[splifingate]

Just out of my league.

And, sometimes it's comforting to be assured that an OP will have to foot the additional bill(s) if they are unable to fulfill their end of the obligation 🙂

I once cleaned/refurbished the ERG system on my 2000 Volvo S40: it required a lot of time, removal/re-assembly of gobs of components, newly-purchased tools, and many (re-)watching of numerable YT videos.

All my efforts were successful, and extremely price-wise. Lifting this off to a mechanic would have magnified my expenditure x8.

Very satisfying to DIY!

Now that I currently own a decent tranche of local hardware, it's becoming obvious that I am currently out of my league....

 

[Pacific1972]

Sometimes, when I read all this, I get the feeling that people are listing the pros and cons
and passing judgment without even looking at what AI can actually do for people today !

Many people, even in industrialized nations, will hardly be able to use AI effectively because
the average person is unlikely to ask the right, detailed questions to get the (thoughtful)
answers that will help them move forward in life. So it won’t raise personal educational standards.

But it’s particularly interesting when people grow up with AI and are trained by it throughout their
lives, while other people from 3rd world countries have to sell eggs on the side of the road after
leaving school on fourth grade just to survive !

The difference will be significant - and I believe that is what industrialized nations are driving forward
by building exorbitantly expensive data centers - to raise the evolutionary level of the population (with
no guarantee of an adequate job - there will be few winners and many losers).

“Metahuman” - defines the total amount of wisdom a society can generate without
the requirement for the majority of the population to possess that knowledge !

😳

Or to phrase it differently:

Your parents, relatives, coworkers, or friends normally cannot give you
answers that will change or improve your life !

All these people live in the same social bubble characterized mostly by similar
intelligence, worldviews, identical social influences, and adaptation to local conditions.

Who should tell you what it would be like to be an entrepreneur, a millionaire,
a survival expert, or an astronaut ? Who can tell you how a fusion reactor works
and what effects unlimited energy would have on society ? The same is it with
AI - but there is a chance for you to be part of it !