Other As a few suspected, battery health isn't really that useful of an indicator...

[FeliApple]

No, the battery performs just as poor on iOS 15 as it does on iOS 16. The difference is imperceptible between iOS versions. This is due to battery ware as it’s well documented that battery health becomes worse after x number of charge cycles.

Battery replacement helps so I don’t know what you’re talking about. I replaced my 6S battery and my mum’s SE battery with an update to iOS 15 and both have over 6 hours of SoT.

You are being disingenuous.

The video shows otherwise, it‘s the entire point of the thread. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Andeddu]

The video shows otherwise, it‘s the entire point of the thread. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Yes. We will have to agree to disagree as the vast majority of user experience, along with my own experience, suggests that the biggest factor in battery life is battery health rather than which iOS version you have installed.

I agree that later versions of iOS require more processing power which will slightly reduce battery life however no where near to the extent that you are suggesting. The same rule applies, if your battery health is low and you are not getting a suitable SoT, the fix is to have your phone undergo a battery replacement. It has worked for me with several phones and they all ran the most up-to-date iOS versions.

 

[FeliApple]

Yes. We will have to agree to disagree as the vast majority of user experience, along with my own experience, suggests that the biggest factor in battery life is battery health rather than which iOS version you have installed.

I agree that later versions of iOS require more processing power which will slightly reduce battery life however no where near to the extent that you are suggesting. The same rule applies, if your battery health is low and you are not getting a suitable SoT, the fix is to have your phone undergo a battery replacement. It has worked for me with several phones and they all ran the most up-to-date iOS versions.

Thanks for the discussion, it’s always interesting!

 

[mebehere]

I have charged all my iPhones every night. Got the 6 battery replaced after four years. That’s when the **** hit the fan with the throttling and what not.

 

[FeliApple]

I really hate posting in threads where the OP is suspended..... as;dlkfjasl;kdjf;ajsdf

My only comment is, batteries do degrade and while new operating systems generally add additional features which cause additional load on the phones, my experience is that Apple does far better than most other manufacturers when it comes to phone and OS longevity. Now, don't get me started on their health % reader .... that's a mystic science that doesn't even follow their own OS values (coconutBattery).

Battery University clearly shows that doing 40-80 can 3-5x your phone's battery lifespan. HOWEVER, the advantage of this is really only shown between 2-6k cycles meaning, you're really only going to see the advantage of this if you keep your phone for a handful of years or more. I'm lucky to use 200 cycles a year on my phone. My wife can do 1.5x more than me but she uses her phone a lot more than I do.

@ctjack is spot on. Pro Max? Battery will last a LOT longer. My 13 PM is still 102% after 171 cycles. Health seems to drop a lot faster with the smaller phones. My 6+ and every +, Max, Pro Max I've had has always had exceptional health for the 1-2 years I've owned them.


I'm still shocked how a 10% battery health difference can result in MORE screen on time assuming those tests were scientific.


Just to make sure to note, there are those people who leave their phones in the hot sun, charge wirelessly in direct sunlight (I've seen it with my own eyes), and what not. Some people will do Pokemon go in the sun on hot summer days till their phone shuts off from heat (etc). This also has to have a serious effect on battery health and longevity.

I‘m interested in a test that even after owning iPads for almost 10 years I still haven’t been able to conduct: how degraded and with what cycle count does an iPad battery have to be before battery life decreases considerably? On iPhones, I know the answer: 1400 cycles and 63% health isn’t enough. My iPhone 6s is almost like-new on iOS 10, like I said.

I don’t have eligible iPads: my 9.7-inch iPad Pro was forcibly updated by Apple from iOS 9 into iOS 12, and battery life dropped from 14.5 hours of SOT, to 10.5 hours, give or take half an hour. So that one is doomed. Even though it’s not mine, I have access to an iPad 6th Gen on iOS 12, but it takes too long because iPads on original versions are great battery life-wise. If 4.7-inch iPhones don’t feel the impact (which, like you said, are a LOT more feeble than large iPhones), I’m inclined to believe that the threshold for iPads is extremely high, way, way past the device’s useful life. I doubt it’ll be able to test it (my main iPad is an Air 5, I get like 22-25 hours of SOT, considering my 6.5-year-old 9.7-inch iPad Pro has around 650 cycles, I’d need 40 years to cycle the Air 5 to a level from which I could extract any conclusions). Still, an interesting experiment. With larger batteries, the impact of reduced capacity is even more muted. If it’s already irrelevant on iPhones…

It’s a lot easier with iPhones: especially 4.7-inch ones: battery life isn’t that great, even on original iOS versions (moderate to heavy use will give you about 6 hours, if not less, which for a moderate to heavy user might translate into more than a cycle per day: give it three years, and you already have a lot of cycles). Like you said, larger iPhones are a lot more difficult to test: like I said, larger batteries don’t feel the decrease, so, with optimal software conditions, it might take too long, just like on iPads. Let’s say you keep your 13 Pro Max on iOS 15 for many, many years. How many years would you need to put 3000 cycles on the battery? Probably too long, way past the device’s useful life (and way past iOS 15’s useful life, too). Like I mentioned with iPads: too difficult to test.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I‘m interested in a test that even after owning iPads for almost 10 years I still haven’t been able to conduct: how degraded and with what cycle count does an iPad battery have to be before battery life decreases considerably? On iPhones, I know the answer: 1400 cycles and 63% health isn’t enough. My iPhone 6s is almost like-new on iOS 10, like I said.

I don’t have eligible iPads: my 9.7-inch iPad Pro was forcibly updated by Apple from iOS 9 into iOS 12, and battery life dropped from 14.5 hours of SOT, to 10.5 hours, give or take half an hour. So that one is doomed. Even though it’s not mine, I have access to an iPad 6th Gen on iOS 12, but it takes too long because iPads on original versions are great battery life-wise. If 4.7-inch iPhones don’t feel the impact (which, like you said, are a LOT more feeble than large iPhones), I’m inclined to believe that the threshold for iPads is extremely high, way, way past the device’s useful life. I doubt it’ll be able to test it (my main iPad is an Air 5, I get like 22-25 hours of SOT, considering my 6.5-year-old 9.7-inch iPad Pro has around 650 cycles, I’d need 40 years to cycle the Air 5 to a level from which I could extract any conclusions). Still, an interesting experiment. With larger batteries, the impact of reduced capacity is even more muted. If it’s already irrelevant on iPhones…

It’s a lot easier with iPhones: especially 4.7-inch ones: battery life isn’t that great, even on original iOS versions (moderate to heavy use will give you about 6 hours, if not less, which for a moderate to heavy user might translate into more than a cycle per day: give it three years, and you already have a lot of cycles). Like you said, larger iPhones are a lot more difficult to test: like I said, larger batteries don’t feel the decrease, so, with optimal software conditions, it might take too long, just like on iPads. Let’s say you keep your 13 Pro Max on iOS 15 for many, many years. How many years would you need to put 3000 cycles on the battery? Probably too long, way past the device’s useful life (and way past iOS 15’s useful life, too). Like I mentioned with iPads: too difficult to test.

Interesting. I've never not upgraded. I'm one of those people who upgrades the minute it's available on all my devices. I really like continuity between all my devices (phone, watch, iPad, Mac, etc).

I've had coconutBattery monitor the health of all my phones and ipads and most drop about 5-6% over a 1-2 year lifespan.

My 13PM is the only phone that hasn't dropped at all health wise (coconutBattery) for the 1+ year I've had it. But I've babied it (I sit at a desk all day so 40-80 is easy for me) - I only use 20% of its battery a day - that may help a lot too (only charging it every few days).

Agreed, to get to 2000-5000 cycles - the device is unusable at that point. Personally I upgrade my iPhone every 1-2 years, watch every 2 years, iPad every 3, and MacBook - every 3-5. I do this mostly because of technology needs (memory/cpu/etc).


My work Dell precision 7750 laptop is only a few years old and is lightly used but it went from 96whr? to almost 69whr in the first year of use (Windows 10/11 battery health report). I can only imagine how people would freak out if they could see those stats, LOL. What's funny is, I don't really notice much of a usability difference cuz I don't really care, lol. The initial drop was insane, but it has stabilized off over the last year.

 

[FeliApple]

Interesting. I've never not upgraded. I'm one of those people who upgrades the minute it's available on all my devices. I really like continuity between all my devices (phone, watch, iPad, Mac, etc).

I've had coconutBattery monitor the health of all my phones and ipads and most drop about 5-6% over a 1-2 year lifespan.

My 13PM is the only phone that hasn't dropped at all health wise (coconutBattery) for the 1+ year I've had it. But I've babied it (I sit at a desk all day so 40-80 is easy for me) - I only use 20% of its battery a day - that may help a lot too (only charging it every few days).

Agreed, to get to 2000-5000 cycles - the device is unusable at that point. Personally I upgrade my iPhone every 1-2 years, watch every 2 years, iPad every 3, and MacBook - every 3-5. I do this mostly because of technology needs (memory/cpu/etc).


My work Dell precision 7750 laptop is only a few years old and is lightly used but it went from 96whr? to almost 69whr in the first year of use (Windows 10/11 battery health report). I can only imagine how people would freak out if they could see those stats, LOL. What's funny is, I don't really notice much of a usability difference cuz I don't really care, lol. The initial drop was insane, but it has stabilized off over the last year.

If you upgrade fairly frequently (and if you don’t keep your previous devices), you’re better off updating all the time. By the time you feel the battery life impact to be extremely significant - significant enough to be unusable - you’re due for an upgrade anyway.

I keep my older devices in use (I still use my 6s on iOS 10 and my 9.7-inch iPad Pro - which would be on iOS 9, if only Apple hadn’t forced it out!) so I like to keep them running as perfectly as possible for as long as possible, without worrying about any battery conservation. I throw all advice away: when I leave home for example and I have time to charge it, I charge it, even if it has 97%. I like a full battery to start the day, even if it had 97% beforehand. I only refrain from updating, so even if functionality is somewhat reduced, the device remains useful for a very long time, and because of my practices, like I said, I had long confirmed that battery health was irrelevant. Even with the worst possible practices, my battery health (from devices I’ve used since the beginning), is good, with the only odd one out being one of the few iOS devices I no longer have: an iPad 4, which reached 77% health with only 530 cycles (after, like, five years). The rest? They’re fine. All I do is avoid heat. The iPad 4 had perfect runtime with that battery health, like the videos here show. But even if battery health weren’t fine (maybe I had a little luck), I think I’d be fine (like my 6s shows).

The 13 Pro Max that you have will probably have excellent health: large battery and good practices is perhaps the best thing you could do. And if your usage pattern suits that, it’s welcome.

5-6%? It depends on a million factors, the main one being heat and cycles, I think. Maybe in two years it’s fine. I’ve never had any massive drops when taking into account devices I’ve used since the beginning of their lifespan: my 9.7-inch iPad Pro hovers at 85% 6.5 years later; my iPhone Xʀ is at 93%, 3.5 years later. The iPad 4 I mentioned had 5 years like I said, and it was the odd one out. But I’m a light user. That might help as well. An iPhone 5s I have since 2015 (on iOS 8! I dropped a power bank on it unfortunately but it still lives - in a drawer though) has 80% health and about 800 cycles, but it’s long unused and it won’t ever see any use again. Maybe it’s luck, but barring one “bad Apple” (sorry, I had to), the rest are fine in terms of cycles-to-health ratio, even without any conservation techniques other than avoiding heat... and I almost forgot! I don’t use fast or wireless chargers. The little 5w brick for iPhones, always (even the Xʀ), the regular 10w charger for the 9.7-inch iPad Pro.

 

[sonic1000]

It has 1400 cycles, which is one of the highest cycle counts I’ve ever seen. It was used. Why did your 6s become unusable? Because it was updated. Two hours of screen-on time tells me it was on iOS 11 onwards, maybe even more updated (iOS 9 and 10 are flawless, and would never get two hours unless used massively heavy, like full brightness gaming with LTE or extremely heavy camera use. What was it on? iOS 13 onwards? 15?). Also, if it was updated, 7 hours? I doubt that. Like I said, I have 63% health and it’s flawless on iOS 10. To get 7-8 hours you need iOS 9 or 10 with any battery health. An updated 6s can never get that.

Like the post shows, battery health does not matter, the iOS version is the only predictive factor of battery life. Is your 12 Mini on iOS 16? Then there’s your answer. It’s not battery health, it‘s the iOS version. Replacing the battery won’t fix anything, like, again, the post shows.

I don't think it's an end all be all. My 12 started getting horrible battery life back on iOS 14, and 15 or 16 didn't make it's battery life better or worse. While my aunt's 8 Plus on 15.6 can easily get double or triple the 12's SOT.

 

[FeliApple]

I don't think it's an end all be all. My 12 started getting horrible battery life back on iOS 14, and 15 or 16 didn't make it's battery life better or worse. While my aunt's 8 Plus on 15.6 can easily get double or triple the 12's SOT.

iOS 14 is the iPhone 12’s original version. If you got poor battery life on that version, it’s an issue with your device, configuration, usage, or all three. The fact that an 8 Plus was three times better after being updated through four major versions only furthers my point.

 

[Paddle1]

6.5-year-old iPhone 6s running iOS 10, 7.5-8 hours of screen-on time with 63% health. Like the post shows, battery health is irrelevant if the iOS version is the original (or an early one).

I think this has to do with the hardware as well. The A9 chip is not efficient. It was very demanding and overpowered to the point that they had to introduce the throttle to stop random shutdowns. iOS 11 was also a poorly optimized release that noticeably cut A9 battery life from there forward. I'd say the bionic chip devices hold up better to updates battery wise for the most part thanks to the efficiency cores, bigger batteries and other improvements. Can battery life get worse with major upgrades? Sure, but not to that degree.

 

[FeliApple]

I think this has to do with the hardware as well. The A9 chip is not efficient. It was very demanding and overpowered to the point that they had to introduce the throttle to stop random shutdowns. iOS 11 was also a poorly optimized release that noticeably cut A9 battery life from there forward. I'd say the bionic chip devices hold up better to updates battery wise for the most part thanks to the efficiency cores, bigger batteries and other improvements. Can battery life get worse with major upgrades? Sure, but not to that degree.

I’m not too sure that’s the case, honestly. While I agree that the processor undeniably improves, and while I agree that newer iPhones have better battery life, comparably, throughout their entire iOS updates lifetime (that is, if you compare them either both not updated, or both updated), in terms of screen-on time, the decline frankly seems to be quite similar in terms of percentage:

The iPhone 6s got 8 hours of screen on time on iOS 9-10. That was cut in half four major updates in. It hovers at around 4 hours on iOS 13. The iPhone Xʀ got 11-12 hours on iOS 12 with moderately heavy use (I know that, both because people reported it back then, and because I use one on that version to this day: it’s my main phone), and current Xʀ users report screen-on time to hover around the 6-hour mark… or in other words, a similar decline. They are better through sheer battery capacity, but in terms of ratio-to-original-version? I’m not sure they are. I’m seeing a very similar decline, unfortunately. It’s awful, because the Xʀ was truly great in terms of battery life. And now it isn’t. 6 hours is what I get with fairly high brightness and full LTE on… an iPhone 6s on iOS 10 with 63% health. (The 7.5-8 number is with lower brightness and at least a mix of Wi-Fi and LTE).

I am extremely disappointed with that. I hoped, I truly hoped, that this model - the Xʀ - would be the breakthrough: the efficiency of the A12 Bionic, coupled with sheer battery size, coupled with Apple’s incessant ads on “the best battery life ever on an iPhone”, I truly thought we might be past that. I thought we might be past me not updating ever due to the certainty of reduced performance and battery life. Time showed me that isn’t the case. Maybe the M1 is the breakthrough. Obtaining iPad screenshots and screen-on time reports is far more difficult, however. I’m not sure of iPadOS 16’s impact on the M1 iPads because there aren’t enough screenshots and/or reports. That said, after witnessing iOS’ entire history, I’m not too hopeful.

 

[krezimax1975]

Is there really an automation that allows you to turn off the charger when it reaches 80%?

 

[BigMcGuire]

Is there really an automation that allows you to turn off the charger when it reaches 80%?

Not without buying 3rd party software (smart plugs) (for iOS).

But the whole point of this thread shows that even a 10% difference in health actually had better battery life than a similar phone with 10% better health. To see health benefits of 40-80%, one would have to keep their phone for more than several years (3-5+).

That said, I usually keep my phone between 60-90% manually because I work a desk job so it's easy for me to do that and costs $0.

 

[Motionblurrr]

I am extremely disappointed with that. I hoped, I truly hoped, that this model - the Xʀ - would be the breakthrough: the efficiency of the A12 Bionic, coupled with sheer battery size, coupled with Apple’s incessant ads on “the best battery life ever on an iPhone”, I truly thought we might be past that. I thought we might be past me not updating ever due to the certainty of reduced performance and battery life. Time showed me that isn’t the case. Maybe the M1 is the breakthrough. Obtaining iPad screenshots and screen-on time reports is far more difficult, however. I’m not sure of iPadOS 16’s impact on the M1 iPads because there aren’t enough screenshots and/or reports. That said, after witnessing iOS’ entire history, I’m not too hopeful.

There's no free lunch ever in this life.

Would you prefer limited/omitted OS features for maximum battery SOT? You'd also have worse animations and speed and RAM management too.

Or take a slight hit in battery life and have like 95% of all the new features a new iPhone can run?

 

[FeliApple]

There's no free lunch ever in this life.

Would you prefer limited/omitted OS features for maximum battery SOT? You'd also have worse animations and speed and RAM management too.

Or take a slight hit in battery life and have like 95% of all the new features a new iPhone can run?

You expressed it perfectly! It’s a choice. Not a fully free choice, but a choice in the end.


I disagree with your implication that earlier iOS versions have worse speed and RAM management; in fact, it’s the opposite: updates are slower and have worse RAM management because they have more active processes. They do more.

As for the rest, you’re right: I am willingly giving up features and app support for performance and battery life. I haven’t willingly updated any iOS device for 10 years, I’ve made that choice already.

I wish the hit on battery life were slight, it is anything but slight: allow me to refer to my previous comment which you quoted for specific numbers.

In the end, barring specific circumstances (like Apple forcing me to update my 9.7-inch iPad Pro from iOS 9 to iOS 12 due to a deactivation bug. I didn’t do anything and my iPad deactivated and I was forced to update - update which, by the way, brought about an irreversible 4-hour drop in screen-on time, which remains to this day, as that iPad is functional and still on iOS 12), staying on an older iOS version is a choice, which I fully admit has drawbacks (that iPad example is why I said it wasn’t totally free: if there’s a problem and/or you have to restore, you are forced to update to whatever the latest supported version is at the time).

Insofar as Apple either refuses or is unable to guarantee me perfect battery life and performance, and/or the ability to freely downgrade to whatever version I want, whenever I want, I don’t see my current policy changing.