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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
So what was your point if not to deflate the poster? Why bring up competitors practice if it is irrelevant?



Everybody in my community has the option to have unlimited, but they may choose to pay per use. For people that don't live here all year round or have small households it may be cheaper to pay per usage.
As mentioned earlier, an observation about something that is similar. Relevancy isn't established simply based on something being said either as an attack on something or in defense of something.
 

billbot

macrumors newbie
May 29, 2013
2
7
I switched to Consumer Cellular a few years ago. They lease lines from AT&T and TMobile I think. I actually have better coverage than my girlfriend who is on AT&T! Also my old AT&T GSM handsets were working fine with Consumer Cellular, except for my 4s, ... had to give up on that one.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
So about 8-9 years.
If you don't count the costs associated with harassment, speed decreases, and general difficulty doing business with them. Those increases well outpaced inflation, so yeah, pretty undefendable.
 

npmacuser5

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,744
1,951
Metered service should bill you for what you use. Pay a setup fee, $5 and then per gb after that. As it is now, you pay a fixed amount whether you use it or not. Every other metered service works this way and Data should be no different.
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
If you don't count the costs associated with harassment, speed decreases, and general difficulty doing business with them. Those increases well outpaced inflation, so yeah, pretty undefendable.
Simply talking about raises and timing.
 

mattster16

macrumors 6502a
Apr 18, 2004
743
489
From the electric company. They look at average usage over the year and then bill you the same each month. At the start of the next year they send me a letter telling me what the next years flat rate is, at which time I can choose to take it or pay per usage.

Ummm....that is not the same as a fixed monthly fee for UNLIMITED electricity. Your estimated yearly usage is being divided equally in order to prevent large cost increases during times of high electricity use (summer and AC). If you go over or under the estimate for the year it will be adjusted in the following year's monthly bill. That is not unlimited.
 

rusty2192

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2008
997
81
Kentucky
No. They also raised it in 2008. (http://appleinsider.com/articles/08...iphone_plans_compared_cost_increases_detailed)
I feel like I am missing another hike, but I can't remember it.

It went from $20 for EDGE with the original iPhone to $30 for 3G with the iPhone 3G. Then it stayed at $30 and even upgraded to LTE with no increase until the $5 one earlier this year. So yeah, 2 hikes over 8.5 years for a total of $10. As much as it pains me to defend it, it really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. As others have said, they could have raised it $20 and killed subsidies like Verizon did years ago, but they kept it around with modest increases and just now killed subsidies.

That said, we will probably be leaving AT&T and our unlimited plans soon. Cricket is too compelling. Plus I can use my 6S that will still be locked to AT&T if I leave before September.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
As mentioned earlier, an observation about something that is similar. Relevancy isn't established simply based on something being said either as an attack on something or in defense of something.
Look, in context your text is a defense of the practice. Your lack of clarity suggests backtracking without denial. Just say what you mean. Take an opinion and defend it. When someone else disagrees consider their point and let it change your opinion or re-explain what you mean clarifying your position. Plenty of people have made me reconsider my opinion on here.

Here: What does it matter in regards to ATT price gouging if VZW gouges too?
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
Look, in context your text is a defense of the practice. Your lack of clarity suggests backtracking without denial. Just say what you mean. Take an opinion and defend it. When someone else disagrees consider their point and let it change your opinion or re-explain what you mean clarifying your position. Plenty of people have made me reconsider my opinion on here.

Here: What does it matter in regards to ATT price gouging if VZW gouges too?
As I mentioned before, you can read what you want into it, but it doesn't mean that it's actually there. I've said simply what I said, and further repeated that it wasn't what you interpreted it to be (even if it can be interpreted that way). You believing that it's something else is certainly up to you, but it doesn't change that what I said was nothing beyond what was actually written.
 

OldSchoolMacGuy

Suspended
Jul 10, 2008
4,197
9,050
Agreed. The despicable part is that it's all electronic services, so it is all set up already.
They have no raw material increases, labor increases that apply to this set up, so they clearly want and will increase this as often as possible to flush out us unlimited users.

But, most consumers are savvy enough these days that when we switch it will not be to their plans. It will be Cricket, Straight Talk, T-mobile etc.

Many of those services you mentioned use AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint towers and pay them for the usage. So in the end they get your money anyways.

Getting a permit for a new tower takes forever. In the middle of nowhere in Texas you might get it approved in 2 months but in places like CA it can take 2 years or more. There's simply no way T-Mobile and others could grow as they have without renting towers from others, which is what they do.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
Ummm....that is not the same as a fixed monthly fee for UNLIMITED electricity. Your estimated yearly usage is being divided equally in order to prevent large cost increases during times of high electricity use (summer and AC). If you go over or under the estimate for the year it will be adjusted in the following year's monthly bill. That is not unlimited.

You are correct it's not really unlimited. It's functionally unlimited in the short term. Technically I could switch to a lower plan, use less, and then get a really low rate "unlimited" for one year. Then go back to per use. That would take a lot of work on my part to change the households behavior. But that's because electricity is a finite resource. It probably would have been a better reference if I restricted it to the flat rate I pay for parking, which includes recharging my car.
 

Number 41

macrumors 6502a
Jun 15, 2009
745
970
I'm not someone who often jumps in to defend corporations, but I really get a kick out of the complaints when the price on unlimited data goes up. It's as if some huge social injustice has occurred. When you signed up for your plan you didn't enter some kind of agreement that the plan will never go away or that the cost is fixed indefinitely. The fact that AT&T grandfathers anyone at all is a generosity on their part (although some localities might have laws on this - I can't be sure without research). The cost of most unlimited services goes up over time. AT&T has every right to charge whatever they want for their services, if you don't like that, leave like you keep threatening to do. They really will not miss you. Honestly, the fact that you are getting UNLIMITED data everywhere you go at LTE speeds for $40 a month should thrill you.

You are correct that they have every right to alter (or even eliminate) the unlimited data plan.

But, suggesting that there's benevolence being shown by our Telecom overlords because they're slowing cranking up the temperature of the water instead of dumping out the pot is just silly.
 

seanmcbay

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2009
221
948
Looking forward to seeing what they truly unleash during this upcoming Administration.

This stuff is going to be much worse under no regulations billionaire businessman Trump. I'm on T-Mobile but I feel it's only a matter of time before they get completely terrible about pricing as well.
 

Goaliegeek

macrumors 6502a
Apr 13, 2009
568
209
Colorado
I've always said ATT will have to pry my unlimited plan out of my hands. I avg about 4GB a month, but when I travel I can get up to 18GB by streaming Dish since wifi at places suck. I may have to jump to a 8-10GB plan. Atleast then I could tether legally...
 

mattster16

macrumors 6502a
Apr 18, 2004
743
489
You are correct it's not really unlimited. It's functionally unlimited in the short term. Technically I could switch to a lower plan, use less, and then get a really low rate "unlimited" for one year. Then go back to per use. That would take a lot of work on my part to change the households behavior. But that's because electricity is a finite resource. It probably would have been a better reference if I restricted it to the flat rate I pay for parking, which includes recharging my car.

I wouldn't say it is even functionally unlimited. If you use more electricity than is estimated (remember you are still being metered) - you will be charged for the excess. You won't get free electricity just because the up front estimate is inaccurate. Electric companies aren't in the business of giving away free electrons. You also said previously that data in a wire is infinite. I would disagree with that. The amount of 'data in a wire' is a function of both the amount of energy needed to create and transmit that data and the capacity of network equipment to deal with all that data. Both of those are finite. If you use more data it DOES cost the data provider more to provide it. You can argue over what the cost might be, but there is a cost.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
It went from $20 for EDGE with the original iPhone to $30 for 3G with the iPhone 3G. Then it stayed at $30 and even upgraded to LTE with no increase until the $5 one earlier this year. So yeah, 2 hikes over 8.5 years for a total of $10. As much as it pains me to defend it, it really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. As others have said, they could have raised it $20 and killed subsidies like Verizon did years ago, but they kept it around with modest increases and just now killed subsidies.

That said, we will probably be leaving AT&T and our unlimited plans soon. Cricket is too compelling. Plus I can use my 6S that will still be locked to AT&T if I leave before September.

They raised it in 2008, 2016, and now 2017. That's at least 3 times. If you've ever read my previous comments, which I don't expect you to have, you would see that I disagree with price hikes that don't clearly explain the reason the increase. It doesn't matter who did it. Not being that "bad" isn't a justification to me because they are using spectrum we as citizens loaned them. If the cost goes towards improving service, and they can show that they have no other way to do so without increasing rates, then fine. I expect to first see executive pay cuts though. It's harsh, but the alternative is to set up a way of allowing citizens to vote on whether ATT should be able to continue to use their spectrum, or if it should be given to another company that is more aggressive in implementing technology and providing services at a fair price. We can't evaluate wireless like we do coffee, or sweaters, or cars because entry into the market is limited to those who have government provided control over frequencies. With the number of competitors cut by more than half over the past ten years, it is even more important that we hold these companies accountable for their behavior.
 

tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
1,053
1,457
I think you can only get that $100 rate if you're a new customer. I have AT&T Fiber and DIRECTV and when I browse the plans, it quotes me $140 for the unlimited plan before our 24% FAN discount. I'm not losing sleep over it because the unlimited plan is useless to me since there is no personal hotspot allowed. Having personal hotspot is much more important to me than having "unlimited" consumption ability on a 4.7" screen.

Edit: Nevermind...the extra $40 is because we have two smartphones off contract ($40.00 each for the access fee). $40 each month for each phone...just to be able to get on their network. Ugh.
 

Yojimbo007

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2012
692
574
Why does anybody still use AT&T? I switched to Cricket a couple years ago, I'm still on the AT&T network, and I pay $30/month for unlimited everything. Yeah, my friends make fun of me for using Cricket, but I haven't noticed any difference in quality of service despite paying less than half of what I used to.
From what i understand Cricket is owned by At&t now.... as their low end front.
And their unlimited data is restricted to GSM which is much slower than 4g ....
http://frugalcaller.com/cricket-wireless-reviews/
 

tobybrut

macrumors 65816
Sep 10, 2010
1,053
1,457
I think you can only get that $100 rate if you're a new customer. I have AT&T Fiber and DIRECTV and when I browse the plans, it quotes me $140 for the unlimited plan before our 24% FAN discount. I'm not losing sleep over it because the unlimited plan is useless to me since there is no personal hotspot allowed. Having personal hotspot is much more important to me than having "unlimited" consumption ability on a 4.7" screen.

Edit: Nevermind...the extra $40 is because we have two smartphones off contract ($40.00 each for the access fee). $40 each month for each phone...just to be able to get on their network. Ugh.

I'm a long-time AT&T customer who had the grandfathered unlimited data plan. I am also a very long time DirecTV subscriber since the early 90's. A few months ago, I switched from that antiquated unlimited data plan to the new one, which I had no trouble getting despite not being a new customer of either service. The new plan saved me a ton of money on the four phones we had in the family. Instead of paying about $250/month, I am now only paying about $180/month.

The new plan is better since it is simpler. It's unlimited phone, data, and texting, unlike the old plan, which was a voice plan with data and text tacked on. And with more phones, it's cheaper, too. AT&T has promised to grandfather this new plan if it ever goes away, a good selling point.

The price increase on the old plan is obvious. They want to get people off of that plan, plain and simple. Since I save money with the new plan, that became a no-brainer.
 

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
I wouldn't say it is even functionally unlimited. If you use more electricity than is estimated (remember you are still being metered) - you will be charged for the excess. You won't get free electricity just because the estimate is inaccurate. Electric companies aren't in the business of giving away free electrons. You also said previously that data in a wire is infinite. I would disagree with that. The amount of 'data in a wire' is a function of both the amount of energy needed to create and transmit that data and the capacity of network equipment to deal with all that data. Both of those are finite. If you use more data it DOES cost the data provider more to provide it. You can argue over what the cost might be, but there is a cost.

I'll have to evaluate my contract, because I don't think your interpretation matches my offer. I agree they are not in the business of providing free electrons, but I'm not exactly saving money by going with the plan I have. I do it more as a way to budget costs. I am fairly sure I pay more for my access to usage than what I would pay otherwise, which would explain why I wouldn't have overage fees. I could be wrong.

I'm not saying there is no max capacity of a wire, I am saying that there is no justification to block a user's transmission. If capacity is hit then transmission can be time delayed. I am assuming here that time is unlimited, and therefore since a component of data transmission is time there will eventually be space for the users request. Sure it might slow down, but only during congestion. This makes data caps seem oppressive. You would be very hard-pressed to convince me that the cost of operating at full capacity during peak hours is an unsustainable business model.
 

Greenmeenie

macrumors 68020
Jan 14, 2013
2,058
3,176
Why can't they? Do you have some kind of signed multi-year or indefinite contract with them?

I think it's because of the original deals with apple. When Apple released the very first ipad back in 2010 it came with an unlimited data plan thru AT&T for $29 a month. And AT&T was the only provider. But after 3 months or so they stopped that promo. I don't think they anticipated the popularity of the iPad. As long as you didn't quit your plan, those that signed up originally could keep it forever with no price increases. I've since transferred it from the original iPad to 2 different iPad mini upgrades. I will never let it lapse. I think I used 60gigs one month. Because I commuted to work and my place of business didn't have wifi. So all day every day I'd be listening to music, watching videos and surfing the net. AT&T does throttle, but I work at a job with wifi now, so I only need the cellular when I commute or travel.
 
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