AT&T and Apple Tightening Policies to Reduce iPhone Unlocking

[pyrophite]

I for one like the new policy and here's why....

The new policy will undoubtedly be a pain for a lot of people wanting to unlock the phone and use it on another carrier, but again, the whole reason AT&T made a deal with Apple was to gain revenue, and if you unlock the phone, even if AT&T gets some sort of revenue or not from the phone, they're losing either potential revenue, or at the very least possible costs associated with carrying the phone in the first place via their agreement.

Of course a lot of this is speculation so it's more opinion based than hard facts. One thing i suspect however is that with this new policy there will be a lot less people buying 100 phones in the store or online, just to turn around and resell them for twice the cost to other countries or online. Kudos to this. The people that WANT to go to the apple store or AT&T store, sign a contract, and pay for the phone will be able to instead of waiting months for the dang phone to be in stock long enough due to the opportunistic people selling phones overseas or on ebay.

I think people who want to unlock the phone to use on another carrier are the ones that i feel a bit of sympathy for, however what would you do if say the iPhone had been released for Verizon? You can't switch to barely any provider if you have a verizon phone due to their CDMA network. You should think of the iPhone that way if it makes you feel any better, that the phone is tied to the carrier no matter the reason, and leave it at that.

Besides, i doubt that the new iPhone would work on anyone else's 3G network anyway, and at that point you're getting a new phone for a cheaper plastic build and a GPS, seems to me you'd be better off with a 1.0 iPhone on carriers such as tmobile.

just my 2 cents.

 

[gibbz]

All these people freaking out about text messaging being additional, chill out.

Read here.

In the article when asked about whether or not text messaging would be included, "Mark Siegel, Executive Director of Media Relations with AT&T Mobility said only that the company would 'discuss details of data pricing, including text messaging, closer to launch.'"

It sounds like they have yet to make up their minds.

 

[KaiMac]

Welcome

Is the fact that I have to activate it at the store.

Now, I know I'm jumping to conclusions here since nothing formal has been released as to the process, but I really don't want some ill-informed AT&T neanderthal, who has no clue that Apple makes computers too, opening MY box and touching MY iPhone before me. This is sacrilegious!

The fact that I ordered MY iPhone online, opened it up in MY home, plugged it into MY Mac, launched MY itunes was a great experience.

Most of the time, these workers don't even know anything about the plans or the phones themselves. Case in point: We get new cell phones in Feb 07. Told the AT&T(then Cingular) worker that I wouldn't get an iPhone until they dropped the price. The worker proceeded to tell me that Cingular was going to offer huge discounts on the iPhone when it came out and that I would be able to pick one up for $99 with signing a new 2 year contract. I looked at them like they had lobsters crawling out of their ears. I asked them where they heard that, the response was classic. "Every phone company offers those kind of deals." I chuckled at her and told her that she was in for a rude awakening because Apple wasn't going to have any of that. She didn't believe me. Hmmmmm..... who was correct in this situation?????

The more I think of it the more I am uneasy with the iPhone being this cheap. The iPhone will become the next iPod at the Apple Store... Some snot nosed teenager standing in line because his iPhone won't work and there I am purchasing a new MacBook Pro, while the Apple Store employees treat him better than me.... Go Figure!

Welcome to your new ATTpple Phone experience......Apple employees will now focus on getting your phone activated and fixed while you shuffle through paperwork at the Apple store, instead of selling Macs. Oh yea, Apple isn't releasing any new macs and their monitors are over 3 years old!

 

[EagerDragon]

1. There is no confirmation at all, or even indication, that AT&T is paying Apple more than $199 per phone. Meaning, there is no indication whatsoever of a standard subsidy. For all AT&T has indicated and said directly, they will sell us the iPhone for the price Apple has dictated, which is the price Apple charges: $199. Period. AT&T is out nothing.

2. Defaulting on a contract is not equivalent to stealing the dollar value of the contract, for in exchange for the dollar value of the contract one expects to receive like value of goods. A contract has a maximum value of materials exchanged to initiate it. If that is $200 (again, your supposition entirely, not supported by any external facts), then the value of the contract is $200. If that is $0, then the value of the contract is $0.

For all we know the default on the contract is 200 or even 400. Given that AT&T is no longer paying Apple a monthly amount, the difference has to come from somewhere.

Also I have a feeling that they will be accepting only credit card purchases and if you do not activate the phone, you may see a 200 or 400 additional charge on your credit card, their "penalty". If it is part of the contract at the purchase of the iPhone, the credit card will honor the charge.

So 200 more for the phone and 200 for breaking the contract can get very expensive to then enter into a new contract with T-Mobile or to put it in the gray market. Not worth it in my book.
If you plan to break the contract, I would suggest not buying the phone. Both Apple and AT&T learned their lesson and probably have special language in the contract to deal with it.

 

[rockman15]

i think the real question out of all of this and possibly the answer to alot of peoples worries is...."can i buy an unlocked 3G iPhone in an Apple shop without a subsidized price?".....

i for one would happily do that...

incedentaly anyone got an answer on that?

 

[Bridge51]

Does it EXTEND your contract?

I got an iPhone 1.0 in January. I want to get the 3G iPhone, but I definetely don't want to tack two years onto my contract, so my question is:

- Does activating the 3G iphone on my account RESTART my contract (meaning it is for 2 years from Today), EXTEND my contract (meaning 2 years from the end of my current contract) or NEITHER (my contract stays the same, just change to $30/month for 3G)

 

[KaiMac]

i think the real question out of all of this and possibly the answer to alot of peoples worries is...."can i buy an unlocked 3G iPhone in an Apple shop without a subsidized price?".....

i for one would happily do that...

incedentaly anyone got an answer on that?

The answer is NO. You are going to have to buy it and activate right there in front of an ATTpple employee while you sign the contract and give them your credit card and personal information for the activation charge and monthly 2 year contract. Stick with iPHone 1 or buy one on eBay if you want one unlocked.

 

[Intarweb]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the $199 and $299 are NOT subsided prices. I've seen no mention of that anywhere. Those are just the prices of the phones.

If that is correct can ATT actually subsidize the phone and sell it for a cheaper price come the holidays?

 

[djellison]

WEll - seing as O2 will be selling it without a contract with simple pay-as-you-go pricing, there's no reason why people can't get hold of a phone and unlock it. AT&T may be trying to clamp down, but O2 are not.

Doug

 

[RubberShoes]

I've waited for two months before making my decision on what iphone to buy. Yes I'm one of those scrubs who wants to unlock it because we have had some very bad experiences with ATT and my family can't stand them or have anything to do with them. From what I've researched T-Mobile USA's 3G network is based on the 2100MHz frequency and the iPhone's 3G antenna supports 850, 1900, and 2100. T-Mobile's unlimited data plan costs 19.99 a month which I can't support, but I speculate includes 3G.

In the underlying layer of Pwnage Tool they explain on their website how they go about unlocking phones and determining which bootloader the phone is running on, for all new bootloaders all they have to do is a simple binary search. However, with the new iPhone 3G I'm not sure if this information applies due to new hardware chips or other security measures ATT/Apple have put in.

So based on O2's plans, it seems feasible to buy a PAYG plan and ship the phone over here and attempt to unlock it.

But does anybody else remember the rumors of Italy, Australia, Belgium, and India all having UNLOCKED iphones from the store? Based on their laws or how they were managing their devices, they were to be unlocked from the box.

Can anybody get any information on these countries policies and/or how the iphone will be handled in those countries?

 

[KaiMac]

New COntract

I got an iPhone 1.0 in January. I want to get the 3G iPhone, but I definetely don't want to tack two years onto my contract, so my question is:

- Does activating the 3G iphone on my account RESTART my contract (meaning it is for 2 years from Today), EXTEND my contract (meaning 2 years from the end of my current contract) or NEITHER (my contract stays the same, just change to $30/month for 3G)

A new 2 year contract will start the day you purchase and activate the phone at the store.

 

[Intarweb]

Another thing, this means that these phones cannot be bought as gifts because of the instant activation. Are we going to be relegated to putting pictures of the iPhone in a card like they did in Seinfeld when they signed the picture of the massaging chair?

 

[thomasfxlt]

Any penalty up to around $300 will be reasonable. People want unlocked iPhones for $200......that makes no sense. No competitive device anywhere in the world for that price. Apple knows it and so does ATT.

Apple should just sell the damn thing unlocked ($400 8gb and $500 16gb) at retail in their stores and let ATT sell the subsidized version for whatever the hell price they want. Give people a choice and skip all the nonsense.

 

[Tankgunk]

Great. Now I just have to choose between an iPhone and getting another MBP in two years...

Honestly, I'm not that negative about this, and I'm probably getting an iPhone. I'm pretty sure I won't need the data because I'm almost always within range of Wi-Fi, so I could just get the voice plan. Voice plans start at $40/month and are cheaper than anything else in my area.

Oh, and I'm hoping that I can eventually buy an iPhone online, because I live about 35 miles away from anywhere I could buy one in a physical store.

But I am worried about service here. Isn't there some kind of 30-day window for quitting if your service sucks? If so, would it incur the non-activated fee?

 

[Jstick]

All these people freaking out about text messaging being additional, chill out.

Read here.

In the article when asked about whether or not text messaging would be included, "Mark Siegel, Executive Director of Media Relations with AT&T Mobility said only that the company would 'discuss details of data pricing, including text messaging, closer to launch.'"

It sounds like they have yet to make up their minds.

Ok...ok thanks

 

[Stately]

This kills one of the most innovative features of the original iPhone, imo -- activating at home. Where you the user control the process at your convenience.

This sucks. I get that AT&T is now footing some of the bill for each phone but c'mon -- this is a big step backwards. It's this kind of nonsense and greed that I'd come to expect from other cell phone providers and manufacturers. Not Apple.

It's not Apple though. AT&T is greedy, I'm sticking with iphone version 1. When things go back to normal i.e. Apple having a lil more control over some things and the iphone advances in tech a lil more then I'll pick up a version 3.
I hope Macworld offers more, at least a revamped Macbook Pro.

 

[EagerDragon]

i think the real question out of all of this and possibly the answer to alot of peoples worries is...."can i buy an unlocked 3G iPhone in an Apple shop without a subsidized price?"..... i for one would happily do that... incedentaly anyone got an answer on that?

Neither AT&T nor Apple sell or plan at this time to sell an unlocked iPhone.

I got an iPhone 1.0 in January. I want to get the 3G iPhone, but I definetely don't want to tack two years onto my contract, so my question is: - Does activating the 3G iphone on my account RESTART my contract (meaning it is for 2 years from Today), EXTEND my contract (meaning 2 years from the end of my current contract) or NEITHER (my contract stays the same, just change to $30/month for 3G)

Yes new 2 year contract and cancels your previous contract.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the $199 and $299 are NOT subsided prices. I've seen no mention of that anywhere. Those are just the prices of the phones. If that is correct can ATT actually subsidize the phone and sell it for a cheaper price come the holidays?

Not in those words …. You can not buy an iPhone 3G without an AT&T contract (in the USA). No contract, no phone.

When buying from apple store there will likely be some paper you need to sign and if after 30 days you do not activate with AT&T there maybe a 200 or 400 charge on your credit card. In other words, the unsubsidized amount difference.

Also phone would not be under warranty since warranty work requires a contract with AT&T.

 

[Tankgunk]

It's not Apple though. AT&T is greedy, I'm sticking with iphone version 1. When things go back to normal i.e. Apple having a lil more control over some things and the iphone advances in tech a lil more then I'll pick up a version 3.
I hope Macworld offers more, at least a revamped Macbook Pro.

I'm all for a revamped MBP too, but I can see why they didn't do that yesterday. The iPhone needed an update (so I'd buy one ), and the MBP is pretty good the way it is. I wouldn't be disappointed if all we saw for a good while was strictly performance related updates. The kind of stuff they can just do without announcing it at a big event.

 

[Abstract]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the $199 and $299 are NOT subsided prices. I've seen no mention of that anywhere. Those are just the prices of the phones.

Yeah, but they may be assuming that every iPhone purchaser is an AT&T user, so there may not be a (public) non-subsidized price because AT&T has subsidized every phone, and assuming that every iPhone will be on a valid AT&T plan. I doubt that AT&T would want to subsidize the iPhone if 30% of buyers were planning on using them on T-mobile.

But anyway, we don't know the details yet. Maybe this phone will be jail-broken in no time, or maybe it'll be unveiled that there is a non-subsidized price of $400 or $450. Maybe there isn't a subsidy at all, and Apple intends to make money only through the sale of their new apps, which is a long-term investment and revenue stream from the "mobile lifestyle" thing they're trying to push. Media has been pushed quite hard by Apple over the past 2 years. Think AppleTV, music, movies, TV shows, iPod Touch, and the iPhone. They all connect to the same place online for media.

 

[ddTaylor]

UK iPhone is the US?

I have a Go Phone plan with my current gen. 1 iPhone and I would like the new iPhone but DO NOT want a contract (yes, I CAN get a contract - but I will not). Can I get the O2 iPhone when I am in the UK in a couple of months and bring it back, pop my gen. 1 iPhone SIM card in and be golden?

If so - I am going to buy two. I hate contracts and who knows how the service may be int he future. I hate to pay for something only to find it is less than advertised - such is the case with my service now. Dropped calls, poor EDGE speeds, network congestion and much, much more.

D

 

[Tankgunk]

Question: how hard is it to get a GoPhone (pay as you go) plan with an iPhone? If so, I could just pay for the few minutes that I ever use and pick up data for $30 or whatever.

 

[Stately]

I'm all for a revamped MBP too, but I can see why they didn't do that yesterday. The iPhone needed an update (so I'd buy one ), and the MBP is pretty good the way it is. I wouldn't be disappointed if all we saw for a good while was strictly performance related updates. The kind of stuff they can just do without announcing it at a big event.

True. The software upgrade for the iphone coming in early July will be great. That's all I really need to hold me over to something like Macworld.

 

[EagerDragon]

I've waited for two months before making my decision on what iphone to buy. Yes I'm one of those scrubs who wants to unlock it because we have had some very bad experiences with ATT and my family can't stand them or have anything to do with them. From what I've researched T-Mobile USA's 3G network is based on the 2100MHz frequency and the iPhone's 3G antenna supports 850, 1900, and 2100. T-Mobile's unlimited data plan costs 19.99 a month which I can't support, but I speculate includes 3G.

In the underlying layer of Pwnage Tool they explain on their website how they go about unlocking phones and determining which bootloader the phone is running on, for all new bootloaders all they have to do is a simple binary search. However, with the new iPhone 3G I'm not sure if this information applies due to new hardware chips or other security measures ATT/Apple have put in.

So based on O2's plans, it seems feasible to buy a PAYG plan and ship the phone over here and attempt to unlock it.

But does anybody else remember the rumors of Italy, Australia, Belgium, and India all having UNLOCKED iphones from the store? Based on their laws or how they were managing their devices, they were to be unlocked from the box.

Can anybody get any information on these countries policies and/or how the iphone will be handled in those countries?

To my knowledge (I could be wrong) Apple never sold a TRUE unlocked phone. It is my understanding that the rules of those countries require that the phone work with all carriers in that particular country. It does not say you can buy a iPhone in France and use it in Poland. To my knowledge the iPhone version 1 meets the requirements of the law while it may or may not meet the spirit of the law.

I do not expect the iPhone 3G to be a TRUE unlocked phone unless you hack it, which maybe difficult and will not happen anyway for a while after it has been released.

Check back in 2 months.

Question: how hard is it to get a GoPhone (pay as you go) plan with an iPhone? If so, I could just pay for the few minutes that I ever use and pick up data for $30 or whatever.

No GoPhone in USA for the iPhone.

 

[matttrick]

So I'm naive, and my analogy isn't accurate? Lets take a look at your post, but still use my analogy:


You're not being forced to go and purchase the food, nor are you "forced to sit in and eat in a place you don't want to". Choose another restaurant. If you want home delivery, why order from a restaurant that doesn't offer home delivery, and why would you still expect it to be delivered? In fact, the restaurant NEVER offered home delivery. They were just being nice by not really trying to stop customers from placing orders that way. Now they are, as it was always explicitly stated that you couldn't get it delivered.



You made too much sense.



You too.

analogies are the weakest form of argument one can take. they are simply a way of saying well, i cannot prove my argument literally, so i will find someplace where a similar argument works, and just apply it to what i want to say. it's pathetic.

 

[hlynurge]

excluded countries

So I guess countries not included in the roleout, will have to buy "full price" iPhones in selected European/Asian countries this time rather than the US.
I expect some anti-AT&T US customers might do the same...
Anyone got a list of the countries that will offer the option of iPhone3G without contracts?