AT&T and Apple Tightening Policies to Reduce iPhone Unlocking

[tismfu]

I don't begrudge AT&T for upping the rates for a more advanced service.

I do, however, think it's silly for Mr. Jobs to herald the lower price as a way of getting more consumers into the iPhone fold when the savings will be obliterated in less than two years via the higher monthly service fee.

Got my original iPhone on Day 1 (and haven't unlocked it). Was prepared to go out and get a 3G on Day 1 as well. The upped fees and required in-store activation, however, have definitely given me pause. Maybe I'll hold on to my original iPhone for a while longer and enjoy the cheaper monthly fees AND new iPhone software.

That said, of course I'm going to see how the details unfold regarding plans in the coming weeks.

Again -- I completely understand AT&T upping the monthly fee -- just don't think Jobs should say that the price barrier is no longer there. The cost to own an iPhone is now going to be even higher.

 

[haravikk]

Hrm, I'd consider an iPhone now in the UK with the lower price, my current phone after all is dying with a battery life of less than 3 days (with a brand-new battery!).

The minimum contract from O2 looks like £30 a month though, hopefully they'll offer pay-as-you-go or something as well. I currently spend £20 a year on my phone for text-messages and very few calls, with an iPhone I'd use the browsing and apps a lot so I'd need to pay more for that, but I don't want to pay £30 a month for "unlimited" internet when I'm unlikely to need "unlimited" amounts of bandwidth.

 

[alecxx]

Vodafone in italy will price 499euros /569euros for 8gb/16gb unlocked...

there is the normal price for a last generation smartphone...

 

[cazlar]

Australia, for example, has a horrendous public transportation system and gas is about $5.30US/US gal. Others do have it worse than Californians

Getting way offtopic, but having moved from Sydney to LA, and used public transport in both, I'll have to disagree. Sydney has some problems but has generally decent public transport (unless you live far out west or the north shore, where it just doesn't exist). If you live in the inner west for instance, you've got great buses and some train options depending on where you are going. They might be full, and likely very late, but you will probably get where you are going in an acceptable time (ie roughly the same as if you had driven, plus some waiting time).

LA on the other hand has really crappy public transport. The Metro trains are OK (good even), but apart from Hollywood and Pasadena, they don't seem to actually go anywhere useful (as far as I can tell). And the buses, while covering most of the city, are horrendously slow. I'm not sure why, I think it is because they seem to have a stop every 10m (people must be too lazy to walk far!). Before I bought my car, I was travelling on either 1 or 2 buses to go ~10-15 miles, and either way it took 1hr+!!!! When driving, I take the same trip on a freeway and it takes 15 minutes or so.

 

[hiimamac]

Great. Now I just have to choose between an iPhone and getting another MBP in two years...

But I am worried about service here. Isn't there some kind of 30-day window for quitting if your service sucks? If so, would it incur the non-activated fee?

They won't tell you this at the APPLE store but the FCC requires that you get all your money back, open or unopened if the coverage is unsatisfactory. Check it out. It's a FCC regulation, at least here in California and have seen this done once where the person did not have to pay a restocking fee for it being opened.

 

[northy124]

Vodafone in italy will price 499euros /569euros for 8gb/16gb unlocked...

there is the normal price for a last generation smartphone...

Last Gen what are you it is a iPod and phone in one, Also it got 3G now also in Italy that is about right for any mobile.

 

[hiimamac]

I'm all for a revamped MBP too, but I can see why they didn't do that yesterday. The iPhone needed an update (so I'd buy one ), and the MBP is pretty good the way it is. I wouldn't be disappointed if all we saw for a good while was strictly performance related updates. The kind of stuff they can just do without announcing it at a big event.

I've pointed this about numerous times with the example of APPLE stiffing the PRO by crippling the Macbook or by releasing NON matte iMac's - doesn't care anymore about computers, their growth and margins are now in iPods and iPhones, and if you're a die-hard Mac user which I am, we should be peeved. Apple doesn't spend 1/10th the amount of time developing Final Cut or Logic, or other PRO applications. If they did, think how cutting edge (example) iWeb could be if they wanted it to be. iWeb and iPhoto could become the platform of choice making iPhoto a lot like Photoshop (Aperture is more like Adobe's lightroom).

As a real fan of apple and seeing them go to Intel, I was thrilled and the macs are pretty fast - but honestly, the iPhone is to some extent the worse thing that could have happened to Apple plus the iMac in its current incarnation. (Non Matte) which are all tailored to mom, pop, and people clueless about creation and are WOW'd by the photo gallery (~shrug~). Heck, with the exception of a few stores, most free classes are all iLife related, or iPhone, not Photoshop (yes I have seen this offered), Logic, Final Cut, Motion, and if they do offer it, its pretty basic stuff.

Apple and PRO take a back seat to the the $$$$$$ that's just how it is. Hardly any development, and correct on some items, Mini is way out of date, MB is too weak with GPU, monitors are dinosaur's in terms of age (and price to performance way out of balance), and development for anyone that uses MAC for a PRO environment, again, takes a back seat to the consumer market now. Apple has become a telecom company with emphasis on entertainment (delivery) not creation anymore.

Its a shame really.

 

[alecxx]

Vodafone in italy will price 499euros /569euros for 8gb/16gb unlocked...

there,it is the normal price for a last generation smartphone...

edit-

 

[alecxx]

i agree 100%

apple is an entertainment company...no more PRO focus...only toys...

I'm happy with my white 24" imac...would be my setup for a long time....
it's really strange that we have to lookt at the past and not at the present...

 

[DeathChill]

Can you answer me this...

How can California vote that homosexual marriage is not cool overwhelmingly (83+%) or that marijuana for medicinal use is okay, only to have 3 men (judges) say, no, no, no, sorry, but we don't think that's right. That my friend, it not democracy but a dictatorship covered in rights and spun anyway the media wants.

Just curious.

I'd have to say because the people who voted against those things don't have a clear understanding of them I guess. However, I don't suppose democracy should ever work that way, regardless of how correct it is.

 

[DeuceDeuce]

I'd have to say because the people who voted against those things don't have a clear understanding of them I guess

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

 

[alphaod]

Since I already have an existing contract, so I have to sign a new one? I don't want to have to be penalized because I'm continuing my existing AT&T iPhone contract.

 

[hiimamac]

Also, does anyone know if there will be a choice of GPS applications? Stuff like iGo 8, etc.. Or is the iPhone stuck with Google Maps, which would make the GPS next to useless for traveling.

If the GPS does not have VOICE control (reading directions) it will pretty much be useless - and things like Tom Tom will survive (if so, they will be thrilled).

Apple has lost its way - the thought that the new phones are now cheap plastic tells me Apple has really lost its focus for real.

I had thought they lost interest in Pro apps quite a while ago, but things like $200 phone, letting AT push him around, lying about cheaper phone (its not, do the math, over the term you pay it back and then some) and to boot, a cheaper phone.

I think someone needs to develop a HACK phone that will run OSX and have the ability to hack into any 3G network and be done with it. I wasn't of this mind set the day before and was planning on a new iPhone but the Keynote, cheap plastic, and 90% of keynote about iPhone shows me Apple has lost its way and will be looking now at the OSX86 groups more often than not. Heck, I built a hack n tosh before, and was planning on a Mac Pro, but if they (apple) aren't focusing on Pro App's anymore, why not save 80% and build it yourself if you can get at least 80% (some say higher than 100%) performance.

Apple is really dropping the ball on this one.

 

[hiimamac]

Now AT&T is doing it to the iPhone -- they are crippling its feature set. This is why, at this moment, I think I'll sit this one out.

The amazing thing is there are so many new users that on the Mac computing side of things, so many fail to see that Apple has crippled it's hardware for the people (Pro users) that made them who they are, yet I wish it would get a fraction of the attention the iPhone is getting.

• Macbook=could never play games, but motion ran fine on it, so after reaching 171% on Open_GL, apple cripples it.

•iMac=Glossy screens = no graphic work. Older iMacs were always in design studios

• Mini=huge joke

• iMac/Macbook = switched from standard Texas Instrument FIREWIRE to Agere chipset = lots of problems for PRO audio and video users. Read more here:
http://www.gearspace.com/board/musi...ets-can-troublesome-okt-07-till-feb-08-a.html

This is also confirmed in most Digital Audio Workstation forums (Steinberg, Cakewalk, Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Pro Tools).

 

[ddTaylor]

Fresh off the phone with ATT and Apple RE: iPhone 2

OK - for what it is worth...

I spoke with AT&T and after MANY hours I was told that the Go Phone option is NOT available for the new iPhone. Yes, I already knew that - but I wanted to know why and if that might change. I was told that NO Go Phone is allowed on the 3G network, period - regardless of manufacturer. There were also no plans to change that so the nw iPhone is a no-go for us that do not want to sign a long-term contract. The price IS subsidized and there is no option of, or any plan to offer the iPhone 2 unsubsidized.

As for Apple...they were actually less help that AT&T. I asked two basic questions. 1) - Can I get the iPhone on-line from Apple direct and 2) - what is the price if I did that.

I was at first told that the iPhone WOULD be available for on-line ordering from Apple.com starting July 11th and if I did not decide to active the phone and use it with my existing iPhone SIM card that Apple did not care (direct quote) as I purchased the phone and it was mine to do with what I wanted. I had the nice young lady DOUBLE-CHECK that and guess what? She was wrong on both counts. No on-line iPhone 2 ordering now or in the near future and the phone will simply NOT WORK without activation - including the applications such as iPod, Wi-Fi and other built-ins. Without activation the phone will not work. Given the track-record on my previous two questions I am a little dubious as to that reply.

Also - one interesting fact for those wanting an iPhone 2...the announcement while I was on hold CLEARLY said twice that the new iPhone will be available to order/purchase on JUNE 29th. I even had customer support verify that was indeed what I heard and it was...but I was told that was INCORRECT and the availability will be BY July 11th and not ON July 11th - so it seems as though Apple and AT&T may have some wiggle-room to get the phone out before the 11th of July.

Anyway - that was not what I wanted to hear as I will either have to sign a contract (I CAN get a contract - I just hate to when I did not have to do so the first time around) or keep the iPhone and live without GPS and 3G.

Oh well - the consumer looses this round. Why not offer an unsubsidized iPhone 2 and allow those of us who do not want a contract to pay the same but get slightly less as is the case now. I currently get ZERO text messages - no bother for me, unlimited (sort-of) EDGE data and 300-minutes of voice for the same price a contract buyer get 450-minutes, 200-texts and unlimited EDGE data.

D

 

[russ973]

The Answers

That thread was too long so I'm starting a new one. With the REAL answers.

1. "The phone is not subsidized" - Yes it is. Just because it's not a rebate doesn't mean it's not.

2. "Why can't I buy it without activating it?" - Because then you'd have an 8gig iPod Touch for $199. Apple sells those for $299. Since AT&T is subsidizing each iPhone, THEY would lose money on it and make ZERO from you.

3. "You can't buy it online." - True, for now. I'm sure they'll set it up where you can later. Just like other cell phones you buy online that come to you activated (or semi-activate).

4. "I want to use it on another carrier." - Why? 3g and visual voicemail won't work.

5. "How is AT&T going to get their money back" - rumors are that rates for unlimited data will go up $10/mo. So that's another $240 for 2 years. Very few people won't but this if they buy an iPhone.

 

[hiimamac]

Making a profit so my stock goes up and pays its employees... how unAmerican of them!

Having a Macbook that can run motion and benchmark at 171% (OpenGL) and knowing that only Pro's cared as you could not play games on it ever, and have Apple cripple it so the pro couldn't use it while the PRO making up only a fraction of the market share now. Yeah, that's very unAmerican.

Jobs has lost his mind and if he thinks going from 5 iphone packs per customer (grey market or not) to individual phone by phone activation, this won't last long. No friggin way. In fact, when the phone was first out, Apple had a different policy almost every dag nab day.

One day 3 was the limit, then 5, then 2, then cash, then no cash, then gift cards, then no gift cards, then credit card only, then no limit. Yeah, Apple is a total nightmare. Do they throw darts at a board to decide what the policy of the day is I wonder?

 

[northy124]

3. "You can't buy it online." - True, for now. I'm sure they'll set it up where you can later. Just like other cell phones you buy online that come to you activated (or semi-activate).

In UK you can buy it online.

 

[diamond.g]

The thing that sucks the most is getting the feeling like the iPhone is just like any other phone from AT&T. With the first phone life was great you felt special cause you had your own plan etc. Now it just seems more like we are just a number on the bottom line (yes that was the case before but it didn't seem like it overtly).
AT&T can fix this perception before launch by making the existing 1st Gen iPhone plans the same plans for the 3G model. I know that we will be the largest taxers of AT&Ts' network but keeping the price the same really shows that "they care". Especially since Apple is no longer getting loot from the subs.

Oh well. Until 3G is available in Fredericksburg, VA I guess I will stick with my iPhone EDGE.

 

[winterspan]

Well since you asked, yes, I would say much of Europe leaning heavily toward socialism (luckily some countries are coming to their senses and kicking the socialists in charge out - e.g. Germany, France)

The U.S. economy is doing fine thank you very much. I don't think high oil prices will be the end of the world. In fact, it's great, it will help to lower usage and companies will speed up research for alternatives. Capitalism is a beautiful thing.

You folks getting all worked up about a cell phone need to relax.

It's not socialism, it's called responsible capitalism. It provides a foundation of regulation on business entities to protect the environment, guarantee consumer rights, etc. I would actually much prefer a country that provides excellent benefits to it's citizens, social or otherwise, such as universal healthcare, guaranteed paid
maternity leave, assistance for the homeless and mentally ill, etc. Also, a place where the revenue from taxes actually goes towards the benefit of the populace, providing such things as great transportation infrastructure, technology infrastructure, park systems, renewable energy infrastructure and distribution. If you want to see a great example of this philosophy in practice, you should visit any of the Scandinavian countries.

The extreme Laissez-faire attitude towards capitalism and corporations in the United States has led to a country that has now been completely overtaken by corporate special interests to the detriment of the common citizen. No longer are decisions made in congress that actually reflect the will of the people or represent what is best for everyone... The entire system has been hi-jacked by corporate lobbyists and turned into a private auction, where the highest bidder of campaign dollars gets to set national policy. It truly is going to be the downfall of our once great nation. Coupled with the reactionary, biblical literalist neoconservative
hijacking of one of the major political parties and we could be in a WORLD of hurt in the next decade unless some serious reforms are put into place, and in this case, that means electing Barack Obama.

 

[hiimamac]

Huh? It was all over the media yesterday. On every news site I visited there was some Gartner analyst or other who was underwhelmed by the iPhone due to camera specs that stopped being impressive ten years ago, and there was plenty of coverage of the lukewarm reception and the drop in stock price...

I think he's referring to the negativity and monopoly that AppleT has on the iPhone. One can only hope that this can reach the outside realm of Macrumors, appleinsider, and so on. Maybe I should post the images of Norton Anti Virus running on the Apple store's back of house computers, that an apple friend showed me seeing how they talk so much about no viruses. Maybe we can make some noise?

 

[Anuba]

•iMac=Glossy screens = no graphic work. Older iMacs were always in design studios

Rubbish. The new alu iMac with the glossy screen is just as popular among designers as the previous models, and many designers opt for the glossy screen on MacBook Pro. If a designer can't work and starts sobbing uncontrollably because he sees reflections on the screen, he's an amateur and should go flip burger at McDonalds instead.

• Mini=huge joke

Huh? I love the Mini. I use mine as a media station plugged into a 42" LCD TV. Tiny, quiet... great.

• iMac/Macbook = switched from standard Texas Instrument FIREWIRE to Agere chipset = lots of problems for PRO audio and video users.

Yes, that does indeed suck. Apple charges ridiculous amounts for their machines and there should be nothing but the best components on the inside. Unfortunately they're sneaking more and more second rate crap into the machines. Can't they just be satisfied with already having a higher profit margin than any other computer manufacturer?

 

[hiimamac]

Also, did anybody else notice that Jobs said that the iPhone would be available in X countries for no more than $199? So I'm imagining that carriers are free to subsidize how they wish (with a price under $199), which means some countries might see a "free" or at least a super ultra cheap iPhone.

Yes, some countries are getting a way better deal than the US and are protected (so it seems) more by consumer groups. Some posters from Europe are astounded at the scam that is going on right now with what we American's have to deal with.

Land of the free my butt. Home of the brave, for sure.

 

[mongoos150]

O2 is already advertising a Pay-As-You-Go iPhone 3G, but there aren't prices available yet. When the prices ARE released, I'm sure they will be over the $199/299 prices in the US. How can SJ claim prices won't levitate?

 

[zync]

It's not socialism, it's called responsible capitalism. It provides a foundation of regulation on business entities to protect the environment, guarantee consumer rights, etc. I would actually much prefer a country that provides excellent benefits to it's citizens, social or otherwise, such as universal healthcare, guaranteed paid
maternity leave, assistance for the homeless and mentally ill, etc. Also, a place where the revenue from taxes actually goes towards the benefit of the populace, providing such things as great transportation infrastructure, technology infrastructure, park systems, renewable energy infrastructure and distribution. If you want to see a great example of this philosophy in practice, you should visit any of the Scandinavian countries.

The extreme Laissez-faire attitude towards capitalism and corporations in the United States has led to a country that has now been completely overtaken by corporate special interests to the detriment of the common citizen. No longer are decisions made in congress that actually reflect the will of the people or represent what is best for everyone... The entire system has been hi-jacked by corporate lobbyists and turned into a private auction, where the highest bidder of campaign dollars gets to set national policy. It truly is going to be the downfall of our once great nation. Coupled with the reactionary, biblical literalist neoconservative
hijacking of one of the major political parties and we could be in a WORLD of hurt in the next decade unless some serious reforms are put into place, and in this case, that means electing Barack Obama.

This is spot on. I think Obama can be that kind of President. He doesn't seem to bow to pressure. Hopefully he stays that way and gets elected. It would be the first time since Clinton that I could respect the President again and actually listen to the State of the Union without wanting to shove a pencil in my ears.