Someone somewhere is going to figure out a way around the system. I don't think AT&T will ever stop unlocking.
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AT&T and Apple Tightening Policies to Reduce iPhone Unlocking
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Wow, the thread is actually slowing down. I thought it would never end.
Oh well, at least it seems that the so called "cheaper" phone is making some headlines. Perhaps by the time it hits the market, the price might go down and I think the idea of
activating the phones at the store should last all but a day. 
Cheaper....
I can't wait to get my hands on the iPhone2 at the store to see how "cheap" this plastic case feels. I love how the ATTpple marketing folks are spinning the plastic as being better for signal reception. Here is a test for all your iPhone1 owners. Tap your finger on the back of the metal part of the iPhone, the tap it on the black plastic part at the bottom. Does the bottom part sound/feel tough to you. I think not. I see a lot more iPhone2's making it back to the store for return or repair. I still am shocked the camera doesn't do any video and MMS has not been incorporated into the phone. Nothing worse than having a friend send you picture mail then having to use that horrendous viewmymessage.com site to see it. Still, none of this is an answer to the fact that Steve tried to pull one over on his "Pro" users at the conference Monday. You're busted Steve.
I can't wait to get my hands on the iPhone2 at the store to see how "cheap" this plastic case feels. I love how the ATTpple marketing folks are spinning the plastic as being better for signal reception. Here is a test for all your iPhone1 owners. Tap your finger on the back of the metal part of the iPhone, the tap it on the black plastic part at the bottom. Does the bottom part sound/feel tough to you. I think not. I see a lot more iPhone2's making it back to the store for return or repair. I still am shocked the camera doesn't do any video and MMS has not been incorporated into the phone. Nothing worse than having a friend send you picture mail then having to use that horrendous viewmymessage.com site to see it. Still, none of this is an answer to the fact that Steve tried to pull one over on his "Pro" users at the conference Monday. You're busted Steve.
So 5-10 competitors is not huge. But on the other hand you said raising capital to start your own company is not an option. I'm confused.
It's a phone. The phone and plan costs seem reasonable. Too expensive for you, then don't buy it. If sales are so low that AT&T and Apple think they can make a greater profit by lowering the price (by driving increased unit sales) then that is what they will do. Lower prices are good, just like lower taxes are good. Let the market take it's course.
iPhone 3G will Never Be Sold Online
Wow, Major step back in the customer buying experience for ATTpple.
http://iphone.foxnews.com/story/0/365347-That-Cheaper-iPhone-Will-Cost-You-More.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365347,00.html
Steve, ATT has worked you over and you sacrificed your #1 asset, the customer!
Wow, Major step back in the customer buying experience for ATTpple.
http://iphone.foxnews.com/story/0/365347-That-Cheaper-iPhone-Will-Cost-You-More.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365347,00.html
Steve, ATT has worked you over and you sacrificed your #1 asset, the customer!
Do you own an iPhone?
I tapped both parts. Feels obsolutely the same to me....and I had to take my iPhone out of its case to do that....How many people carries bare iPhone around?
Of course I don't own one. I just spend time on this forum wishing I had one. Some of us go naked, some cover up. Your call.
I can give some educated guess on the MMS and video part.
Apple is a company who would rather release nothing than releasing second grade products. Just look at their desktop software. Every one of them is the top of the class.
MMS without video is just non-sense. So, it comes down to when Apple can release video recording.
Have you tried video recording on other phones? With industry standard 3GP, you get extremely poor resolution (I believe 176x144?), which will only make iPhone look bad on iPhone's screen (480x320). Just thing about it. iPhone's screen is 5X of that resolution. Poor video is not a big deal with you use a candy bar phone, but that will be unacceptable for Apple.
The funny thing is, WM records in MP4, but you cannot even play the files on the desktop Windows.
I will bet Apple will release the best of class video recording sometimes in the future. They will have option to record MP4 at 320x240 (which actually plays fine on Blackberry and Walkman phones), and maybe 480x320. And when they have video recording, they will have MMS.
One thing for sure, they won't release QCIF quality recording.
MMS with photos makes perfect sense. And seriously, since Apple could release a "smart phone" without, say, 3G, forwarding of text messages and so on, one can't argue that they'll rather not do it, than it do it poorly. It's the same with their "superdrives", the change to poor FW-chips, the nixing of Disk Mode and what have we.
Your argument is far fetched and, frankly, should not even be close to an argument to people who consider themselves "enlightened consumers".
the plastic may not be as durable as the current case, but i'm betting it really does help with reception. my housemates samsung with internal antenna gets far better reception in our house than my iPhone.
I was reading at the MAC forums (they are complaining too) and saw that the Yahoo story was posted there with comments about the non commissioned sales of apple employee's and it lasted on their for about 2 minutes. Apple is quickly deleting the threads and the press is catching on.
Nice.
To be fair, not sure how much it is Apple's fault, I mean really, lowering the price for the common good of man? I don't think so. Something really fishy is up with that as he would keep it at $399 if he could have. Unless he's thinking somehow, like a printer and its reduced priced due to the proprietary INK requirements (APPLE ONLINE STORE?).
Still, I question the cheaper plastic and won't know until we actually see it first hand.
The last PRO user was the day it went to intel and even then wasn't it the iMac?
Another posted today that GLOSSY are used in PRO environments - yeah, okay, I'm sure they look great calibrated. Not, all the colors would be off and would look awful I think, in order for it to print and color separate correctly.
Still, the iMac has bad firewire and non industry standard T.I. chip-sets.
The iPhone is a great product but the AT&T thing is a dealbreaker for me. Even if they gave it away for free it wouldn't make a difference to me because I pick the carrier first and then the device.
It's their right as a business to do this, but by doing it this way they are losing my business (which they could have otherwise if I could use Verizon on an iPhone, complete w visual voicemail). We'll see how many other people feel the way I do.
It's their right as a business to do this, but by doing it this way they are losing my business (which they could have otherwise if I could use Verizon on an iPhone, complete w visual voicemail). We'll see how many other people feel the way I do.
As much as I was thrilled that they went to INTEL and love Apple by far much better than the OS and problems of windows (used it for years), I am glad to see this is getting press. Its just bad all around and you have to ask yourself - if the same company that will cripple a macbook affecting only the PRO users (MOTION) and cripple the iMAC (glossy no matte for GRAPHIC design), and combined CRIPPLED the macbook/imac with sub par firewire, this is not the making of APPLE stating they are here to help mankind and lower prices. LOL, that is the most unbelievable thing I have ever heard...
So am glad that the press is catching on, hopefully, so won't the consumers and this will garner a lot of steam, outrage by the time it ships.
Apple reducing prices for consumers - Apple? Are you kidding? RU kidding?
Surely, something very fishy is going on.
And hopefully we benefit.
In the wake of Apple's iPhone 3G announcement and AT&T's press release detailing their new agreement with Apple, additional details are surfacing regarding the companies' attempts to reduce the number of customers unlocking their iPhones for use on other carriers.
Gizmodo spoke with AT&T's President of National Distribution Glenn Lurie, who revealed that all iPhone activations will take place in-store. This is in contrast to the current system in which customers may activate their iPhones from home using iTunes. Additionally, Reuters reports that AT&T has said that purchasers who do not activate their iPhones within 30 days will be subject to penalties. No details on these proposed penalties have been made public.
Article Link
Just great... I always wanted to buy an iPhone but don't want AT&T. Darn you Apple.
I think I get the VIDEO and PHOTO non attachment idea - it just hit me, Apple with its helping mankind with reduced prices (which the media is picking up on as a lie) all has to do with Apple wanting the end user to use .MOBILEME (what a terrible name, WindowsME, .MAC) for anything related to video/audio/photo's. So there.
Yup, and it ties in a little too perfectly with them nixing Disk Mode. No, instead of you putting it in disk mode, transfering some document (of any kind), you better pay 99$/year in order to upload it to mobileme at the place you're taking it from and downloading it when you get home.
That would be $70 a month plan as you HAVE to get a MINIMUM $40 VOICE plan *AND* a $30 DATA plan or they won't sell you an iPhone. It doesn't matter if you don't want to make voice calls on it or wish you could get a pre-pay voice deal (only because it allows you to get 1000 minutes a year for $100, which $8.33 a month if you don't use that many minutes a year (I don't; I actually use my home phone most of the time when I want to gab, which is $29.95 for unlimited local and long distance though my cable company). It sounds like the UK is getting a data only option. Too bad there's no such option here.
Frankly, given Apple is NOT getting anymore shared revenue from AT&T, I don't understand why they're letting AT&T monopolize the market for the iPhone 2.0. What's in it for Apple to stick ONLY with AT&T at this stage? Why not let all 3G carriers subsidize the phone any way they want? That's what I don't get. You could see why they did the deal the first time as they were getting revenue back from cell phone subscriptions. But here, they could have just offered it for sale directly to the customer for x price and let any cell phone carrier who wants to subsidize it, buy the phones and offer them for less but with required subscription deals. Isn't that the way it works with say Nokia phones? You can get Nokia phones for all major carriers and those carriers reprogram them and subsidize them how they see fit for their service.
Personally, I don't mind AT&T. I've already got a 3G enabled phone using pre-pay on their network for $8.33 a month (pre-pay 1000 minutes as above). But I do mind that they decided they wouldn't allow such deals on the iPhone just because they know they've got a hot item and no competitors and have ZERO incentive to offer piece-meal bargains under those conditions. Too bad for you if you don't use 500 minutes a month. That'll be $70 a month for 2 years please.
Hey, get me a candidate to vote for that is NOT part of the machine. I've voted 3rd party in the past even when I knew the candidate didn't have a chance in hell because I believe in voting for the BEST candidate, not just trying to vote for whom you think might actually win. That's self-defeating and only ensures the 2-party 'dualopoly' will continue forever in this country. The problem is you have to be so stinking rich and/or have huge party funding to back you up in this country for any large candidacy or you simply have no chance of winning. They've basically got it fixed so you only have 2 viable choices. Bad and worse. That's not democracy. It's a freaking sham. Then they tell you that you have no right to complain if you don't vote. But what's the point in voting if there is no candidate that you feel good about voting for? Vote for scumbag #1 or scumbag #2. What's the difference? They're both scumbags.
If I could remove the VOICE plan after I buy it, I'd get one. I don't need 500 minutes a month. I used 300 minutes of voice calls last YEAR. That's an average of 25 minutes a MONTH talk time (I use $100 for 1000 minutes pre-pay, which averages me $8.33 a month to use a cell phone for voice). In this case, I really just want a data device. I'd gladly pay $30 a month for unlimited data on the iPhone 3G. Just don't make me buy talk time I have no interest in using for MORE than the data rate. If I could pre-pay the voice minutes at that rate like I'm ALREADY doing on their network and just buy the $30 a month unlimited data rate, I'd buy one as soon as it comes out. As it stands now, I won't buy one period. I'd rather get another iPod Touch and just deal with less places to use it.
Frankly, I think there might be a market for more than few 'data only' people. The iPod Touch is basically that but limited to WiFi. This would simply add a 3G data option to the mix for $30 a month. But if AT&T would prefer $0 a month because I won't buy one when I have to pay $40 more for something I don't use (namely the voice minutes), then so be it. They lost a sale. I've got better things to do with with that $768 over the next two years (the difference between my pre-pay plan and their minimum $40 a month voice plan over 2 years time).
Unlocking will ALWAYS be an option
I've worked in the Telecom industry for years...I've never seen any phone that cannot be unlocked. Most are shipped to Operators locked due to the prevalence of subsidies on phones by the Operators.
Some operators are great about unlocking phones for you once the contract terms are met (T-Mobile is on this side)...some would not unlock a phone for their own mother even if all contract terms are expired (AT&T falls into this camp).
Mobile phone manufacturers have been working with both hardware- and software-based as well as combo locks for years. But there is always a way to break whatever they try...this is the Telecom version of hacking.
What interests me more is T-Mobile's 3G roll-out on the AWS band (1.7 and 2.1 GHz). The iPhone 2.0 specs show it work in the 2.1 GHz band. (Makes sense that Apple ships the phone multi-frequency to deal with the fact the US's bands are always different than the rest of the world). So that means the 3G phone will work on T-Mobile's 3G later this year.
The few months it takes TMO to bring 3G to my local market should be enough time for a "backdoor" to open and allow us to buy and unlock the phones (it only took 2 months for iPhone 1.0). At $199, maybe I'll buy two.
I've worked in the Telecom industry for years...I've never seen any phone that cannot be unlocked. Most are shipped to Operators locked due to the prevalence of subsidies on phones by the Operators.
Some operators are great about unlocking phones for you once the contract terms are met (T-Mobile is on this side)...some would not unlock a phone for their own mother even if all contract terms are expired (AT&T falls into this camp).
Mobile phone manufacturers have been working with both hardware- and software-based as well as combo locks for years. But there is always a way to break whatever they try...this is the Telecom version of hacking.
What interests me more is T-Mobile's 3G roll-out on the AWS band (1.7 and 2.1 GHz). The iPhone 2.0 specs show it work in the 2.1 GHz band. (Makes sense that Apple ships the phone multi-frequency to deal with the fact the US's bands are always different than the rest of the world). So that means the 3G phone will work on T-Mobile's 3G later this year.
The few months it takes TMO to bring 3G to my local market should be enough time for a "backdoor" to open and allow us to buy and unlock the phones (it only took 2 months for iPhone 1.0). At $199, maybe I'll buy two.
The only problem with that analogy is that somewhere along the way, Lucas got greedy and that "THX" moniker no longer means a darn thing if they grant it to anyone that pay the license fee to have the badge on their equipment. I mean come on, my computer speakers sitting on this desk right now are "THX" rated and while they're nice for 'computer speakers' for $130, they're HARDLY "kickass". THX USED to mean a certain standard a long time ago. Today it means someone paid their fee to use the name.
Look at Monster Cable. They want like $50 for an 8 foot toslink cable at Best Buy. You can get the same functional toslink cable without the name-branding for $5 online. You're paying 10x the price for a NAME. Higher standards don't necessarily equate to someone charging to stick 3 letters on the front of their speaker grill, audio cable or receiver. I've got a high resolution stereo with $2000 ribbon speakers, custom crossovers with bi-amping. No "THX" moniker is needed for them to blow away those $130 speakers. It reminds me of how Bose advertises. They sell vastly overpriced niche-market (as in tiny cubes) speakers yet claim they're the most respected name in sound. That's like Microsoft saying it's the most respected name in operating systems. I guess "respected" doesn't mean "quality". It certainly doesn't with THX equipment anymore.
So while I don't mind Steve Jobs pushing for 'higher standards' with cell phones, does that means he needs to limit those standards to JUST those standards along the way (i.e. fighting hackers who wanted to run more than Apple software in the 1.0 iPhone) and now limiting the iPhone to the AT&T network despite the lack of profit-sharing? And what about AT&T limiting what plans you can get (e.g. you have to buy a voice plan even if you don't need one but only want it as a portable Internet device)? I guess I'll stick with the iPod Touch and hope for WiFi when I travel.
I don't recall reading about "capitalism" in the US Constitution. Too many Americans confuse democracy with capitalism. One is a form of government and the other is an economic system. So often you hear people on the right in this country use the word "Socialism" as if it means "Communism" to try and scare the people away from voting for rights for the people instead of the rights of a company to sell you what they want to sell you at whatever price they feel like selling it at and leaving you no choice if you want to heat your home or have things like electricity. That's the deregulated capitalistic system at work in the U.S. Ohio is set to be deregulated for electricity next year. The farce of it all is that the law was passed to increase competition and therefore help LOWER prices. We all know that every state that has done this already has seen their electricity rates almost DOUBLE overnight. They know they're feeding you a line of BS, but they feed it to you anyway and you eat it up. This country was NOT founded on capitalism. It was founded on democracy (well really it's technically a republic). It's supposed to be FOR and BY the people. Corporate greed is for and by the RICH people, which make up less than 10% of the people of this country. But hey, go capitalism! Let them eat cake! Oh wait. That kind of thinking didn't pan out so well in France many years ago. Well, they say those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. All I can say to that is ouch.
A law for and by the people would mean Apple couldn't make exclusive deals with AT&T to force you into having no choice which carrier you can use. A law for and by the rich fat cows in the corporations means they screw you over any way they can and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Never mind if you like the product, but don't like the carriers. That doesn't matter. Go find another product. I believe certain Mac users like to say go buy a PC if you don't like the fact there's no expandable Mac until you get to the $2400 range so it should be a familiar concept around here.
I really like this line of thought and hope it sees through soon. cant wait to drop at&t and jump on the 3g iphone with TMO