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AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering

samcraig said:
It's not deceptive. It's just that people don't read it until they want to prove/disprove something.

People are more concerned with shortening their wait time/shopping experience online or in the store to get their hands on their devices more so than reading the terms and usage regarding those devices.

But that's not deceptive. You're confusing deceptive with laziness
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No in the TOS it states there is a limit to unlimited (5gb), deceptive.

As far as the tethering issue, at&t does not know whos tethering.
they are guessing............so yes its wrong for them they should have proof and its possible for them to have the proof but they are the lazy ones.

"I think you are guilty, but to have the proof takes too much time, just execute them"

We live in a time of reason ( I question this at times myself) and you cannot condemn people based on a belief you need the proof.
 
tirexstorm said:
Will this affect people using tetherme or just mywi?
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Both as they both allow you to civumvent the contract that you agreed to with AT&T.

I have tethered in the past but stopped because I felt like I was stealing. This is my opinion and choice. Others clearly have found a way to justify doing it and have even gone so far as to say that AT&T is cheating them. Frankly I don't see this as you signed up for a phone, not broadband. For all of you that also think that the heavy usage doesn't affect you, when you start seeing new charges appear because they had to buy more equipment to deal with the higher bandwidth usage then you might change you mind.

Do I care if you keep doing it? Not really, but be aware that you are on their network and they can see what you are doing.
 
I'd like to see some kind of evidence that they can prove people are doing unauthorized tethering. You won't be seeing it so they really have nothing to charge you for. All we've heard so far is speculation and nothing more
 
sawah said:
And how do YOU not get the giant paragraph in their TOS that says you can't tether it to another device?? Use all the unlimited data you want on your phone. A judge isn't gonna waive that all away.

............
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But people have shown it does not say on the Data use they are tethering.

At&t cannot produce proof they are tethering

so a judge needs proof other then "Look Judge they used Data"

LOL WOW!:eek:
 
Howdr said:
The amount of data they used by tethering is the issue per the previous articles and statements by At&t in the last 2 years.
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It is, however, this thread isn't based on articles and statements made by AT&T over the last two years.

This thread is specifically based on "AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering", not "AT&T limiting iPhone data consumption for iPhones on unlimited data plans".

Maybe I'm reading your point wrong.

But if you advertise unlimited as At&t does and did, it should be unlimited no matter what (Slimey) lawyer drafts a document meant to swindle people is signed.
a Con game is still a con game, if i sign and pay for unlimited, it should be unlimited not what ever At&t decides.
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I'm just saying that in regards to the unlimited iPhone data plan, you're still getting unlimited iPhone data. Where's the con?
 
Howdr said:
No in the TOS it states there is a limit to unlimited (5gb), deceptive.

As far as the tethering issue, at&t does not know whos tethering.
they are guessing............so yes its wrong for them they should have proof and its possible for them to have the proof but they are the lazy ones.

"I think you are guilty, but to have the proof takes too much time, just execute them"

We live in a time of reason ( I question this at times myself) and you cannot condemn people based on a belief you need the proof.
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a) show me this 5gb limit. I see none and don't know anyone who has been charged for going over 5gb on their UNLIMITED plan on their iPhone

b) they don't know if you tether or not. That is your assumption. They're guessing? Yeah.. ok. The FACT is - you have no idea if they do or don't have proof. Perhaps wishful thinking.
 
AT&T is not being 'unfair', but nor is tethering 'stealing' lol.

The funny thing is, for all this argument this probably won't lead to anything. The majority of people will keep using whatever method they use to tether and most likely nothing will happen beyond a warning. Whether they're in the right or not, AT&T will get too much **** for 'auto' changing people's plans to a more expensive plan, ESPECIALLY if they are using automated methods to flag this, because as others have pointed out, people the complaints resulting from false positives will be a PR fiasco for them. Just like those stupid notices some people get from their cable companies for downloading certain torrents...everyone was like "They're cracking down!!!" Really? I've never seen one of those in my life, don't know anyone who has personally, and of all the people online I've seen report them I've never heard of anyone having their cable canceled, having any legal issues, etc... Not saying it hasn't happened but it must not have been that big of a crackdown if everyone is still doing it.

Ok, it's not the same because in this case AT&T is out to protect their own interests (as opposed to cable companies protecting the copyrights of others), but I still don't see this putting an end to homebrew tethering methods that let people use the data they purchased as they see fit. Yes it's against TOS, yes AT&T is fully within their rights to try and stop you, but...good luck.
 
Howdr said:
No in the TOS it states there is a limit to unlimited (5gb), deceptive.
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If you can actually find the TOS specific to the unlimited iPhone data plan, it doesn't mention a 5GB cap.

Old unlimited DataConnect Plans, and old unlimited smartphone/BlackBerry plans had that wording, but the unlimited iPhone data plan didn't.

joeshmo2010 said:
I will always continue to use tethering with my unlimited. They will never make me switch and they can accuse all they want.
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They don't have to make you switch. They can switch you plan automatically without you. If they do, you can probably cancel without paying an EFT since they changed the plan terms you originally agreed to.
 
There are quite a lot of people in this thread who sound like AT&T employees trying to add to the scare tactics.

The cheapest and most efficient way for AT&T to "detect" tethering would be to monitor data usage and accuse high data users. They anticipate a lot of them will be uneducated and believe they have really been caught and switch to the official tethering plan (losing their unlimited, which I believe is AT&T ultimate goal here), or will simply ignore the text and they can automatically switch them, accomplishing the same thing.

If AT&T accuses you, and you refuse to switch to the new plan and claim you're not tethering, and they switch you anyway, you'd almost certainly be entitled to cancel with no ETF, legally at least. Particularly if they refused to do anything more than say "we suspect you are tethering" without providing any support.

To be fair, AT&T contract does say they can modify or terminate your account if the simply believe you are tethering, but no court would hold that belief, without a legitimate basis, is grounds for modification or termination, and it's hard to believe that 20 gb of data usage in a month would be a legitimate basis for that belief (those who are reaching ridiculous numbers like 50+ might be a different story.

My take (law student with no tech background): if they accuse you and send you the message, call them and play dumb and say you do a lot of streaming. If they buy it, great. If they end up switching you anyway, or forcing you to switch, you can presumably get out of the contract with no ETF. If this fails, and you have money to blow to prove a point, you can probably seek an injunction preventing AT&T from altering your contract, or a declaratory judgment that the contract permits you to get out of it without an ETF in this circumstance.

Odds are that AT&T would be unlikely to show up for any lawsuit filed by an individual over a few hundred bucks, which would entitle you to both the ETF and your legal fees.

Granted, I'm a student not yet a practitioner, so all of this should be taken with several grains of salt. Additionally, none of this should be construed to constitute legal advice.
 
TheRealTVGuy said:
Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

(Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)
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AMEN!

Do I think they are justified in classifying what data we use for what when we are on a plan that is supposed to be UNLIMITED? Not really! But that doesn't make it ok to be dishonest and steal things now does it?

Hopefully one day soon we will all just have 1 super fast LTE data plan that will tether to all of our devices and our cars at a reasonable price!
 
If I was tethering I would already know and I already pay for the full data plan thankyouverymuch.


Its not the price that bothers me ......... its the nickel and diming.




Grandfather plan: unlimited but no tethering

Now tethering is available but now its limited.

*&^% :rolleyes:
 
OPTION 3 - they're sniffing tcp/ip traffic and depending on the traffic can identify if the originating IP has a private addressing scheme. As an ISP, I imagine that you have some leeway to sniff traffic to solve problems, but I'm not sure if this would count as legitimate.
 
MacFly123 said:
But that doesn't make it ok to be dishonest and steal things now does it?
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I can maybe get behind the whole 'dishonest' thing, but... seriously. If I have an iphone and an ipad, and I decide to surf some sites or stream music through pandora on my ipad using tethering instead of doing those exact same actions on my phone, I'm now 'stealing' that data even though it would have been the exact same usage?

I realize there are other scenarios you could bring up that would be more like 'taking advantage' of the system, but me personally- if I'm using the data in a way I feel is no different than I would be using with my phone, I don't have any bad conscience about it whether it's allowed or not.
 
Marketing fluff

When are you all going to realize that this is marketing fluff?

Let me give you a possible scenario...(something to lighten the mood)

AT&T Infrastructure: Wow - these new smart phones use a lot of data. We need to restrict it.

AT&T Marketing: Yes, well, we can't tell customers the restrictions - it will lose us business. I want to tell them it is unlimited!

AT&T Infrastructure: No way...it will kill us - especially with tethering! I'd be happy with it restricted to the smart phone only.

AT&T Legal: We can insert a clause...restricting to this device only...no tethering.

AT&T Marketing: Yes, yes! I can just mention and promote unlimited, and the actual usage can be buried in the ToS. I like it.

AT&T release "unlimited data for the iPhone" knowing full well that even if your iPhone downloads 24x7 - their network can handle it (although this will never happen in reality).

Everyone flocks to buy it and SIGN UP.

Selecting which part of the service to market IS mis-leading, however...it is pretty clear - "this device only".

Everything in America is like this. Marketing is a black art form here!! You can't pick and choose which parts of the marketing and ToS you like!
 
You get what you deserve and for those of you who kept telling others about an Unlock and to suffer the consequences, KARMA.
 
A Probable Solution...

To start off, I do not want to get intimate with the moral aspect of this. Everyone has their opinion.

On my end, I have a jail-broken iPhone 3GS on 4.2.1, with MyWi installed, and I have a grand-fathered unlimited plan.

I want to tether for that 1 time where I really need internet on my laptop when I am out and about, and maybe when I am out camping and I have my laptop.

Most of us have MyWi so we can do this, right? It's more of a backup system. I've used it only twice, including the time I tested it. I don't picture people using tethering everyday, or even for prolonged periods of time. Why doesn't AT&T just provide users the ability to tether 5-10 times a month? Then if you need more "access" you can pay for it?

When I say "access", imagine a "movie ticket" that grants you access to the movie. If you want to see a different "movie" at a different time, you need another "movie ticket."

Right now, most of us want access to the theater, and hope to see another movie without another ticket

Obviously, this solution is not completely worked out, but does anyone see where I am going with this?
 
TOS are not the holy grail

Just because a company makes you sign their TOS, it does not make the TOS a Holy Grail law. TOS are only written in the best interest of a company and they are very often faulty.

Unfortunately in some countries, people forget to use common sense and reasoning and take everything the way it is BECAUSE it was written in the TOS, as so many people keep quoting in this forum.There is no such thing as a perfect TOS and even if you sign it, it does not mean you cannot challenge it.

Just because the TOS says so and you sign it, it does not make it right or the law. If it did, a lot of legal professionals would be unemployed and a lot of average Joes/Janes would be in jail.

AT&T is in the business to make money. They will take whatever they can get and however they can get it. AT&T is just as unethical as ......(you get to fill in the blanks ;)). It is up to the consumer to challenge AT&T's faulty TOS instead of just being passive, quoting and accepting it. It is amazing and worrisome how accepting some people are in this forum. I guess they do not teach critical thinking anymore in schools and/or colleges.

The sad part is that big companies are in bed with the politicians (republicans and democrats in the US) so the government will never step in to protect the interest of consumers.:mad:
 
manman said:
I can maybe get behind the whole 'dishonest' thing, but... seriously. If I have an iphone and an ipad, and I decide to surf some sites or stream music through pandora on my ipad using tethering instead of doing those exact same actions on my phone, I'm now 'stealing' that data even though it would have been the exact same usage?

I realize there are other scenarios you could bring up that would be more like 'taking advantage' of the system, but me personally- if I'm using the data in a way I feel is no different than I would be using with my phone, I don't have any bad conscience about it whether it's allowed or not.
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I thought I made clear in my post that this is simply double billing what is supposed to be an unlimited plan for many and I do NOT agree nor think it is ethical for the carriers to do this! But, when people sign a contract and agree to the terms doing otherwise is not being honest. Plain and simple.
 
Cutwolf said:
If this fails, and you have money to blow to prove a point, you can probably seek an injunction preventing AT&T from altering your contract, or a declaratory judgment that the contract permits you to get out of it without an ETF in this circumstance.

Odds are that AT&T would be unlikely to show up for any lawsuit filed by an individual over a few hundred bucks, which would entitle you to both the ETF and your legal fees.

Granted, I'm a student not yet a practitioner, so all of this should be taken with several grains of salt. Additionally, none of this should be construed to constitute legal advice.
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There's a binding arbitration clause in the TOS.
 
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