AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering

[samcraig]

Just because a company makes you sign their TOS, it does not make the TOS a Holy Grail law. TOS are only written in the best interest of a company and they are very often faulty.

Unfortunately in some countries, people forget to use common sense and reasoning and take everything the way it is BECAUSE it was written in the TOS, as so many people keep quoting in this forum.There is no such thing as a perfect TOS and even if you sign it, it does not mean you cannot challenge it.

Just because the TOS says so and you sign it, it does not make it right or the law. If it did, a lot of legal professionals would be unemployed and a lot of average Joes/Janes would be in jail.

AT&T is in the business to make money. They will take whatever they can get and however they can get it. AT&T is just as unethical as ......(you get to fill in the blanks ). It is up to the consumer to challenge AT&T's faulty TOS instead of just being passive, quoting and accepting it. It is amazing and worrisome how accepting some people are in this forum. I guess they do not teach critical thinking anymore in schools and/or colleges.

The sad part is that big companies are in bed with the politicians (republicans and democrats in the US) so the government will never step in to protect the interest of consumers.

It could be argued that there are plenty of consumers these days that try their darndest to screw over corporations. And by screwing over - I don't mean over questionable actions by the corporation - but just because the consumer feels entitled or worse - simply wants something for nothing to abuse/exploit the company for their own gain.

But that's a whole other subject

 

[C N Reilly]

Just because a company makes you sign their TOS, it does not make the TOS a Holy Grail law. TOS are only written in the best interest of a company and they are very often faulty.

Yes, I agree. People here keep calling them "contracts", but in my world contracts are the result of a negotiation between two parties. When you go into an AT&T store and are told "sign here," that's not a negotiation. It's not even "take it or leave it," since you're often only told "oh, just sign here for the legalese." As far as I'm concerned, that's no different than a contract signed under duress, and thus I'm under no moral obligation to go out of my way to ensure I'm in 100% agreement with their TOS at all times.

It's a document designed to protect AT&T and take away most of our consumer rights, nothing more. The idea that it's some sort of sacred bond between us and them is laughable.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

I'm just surprised they haven't done this sooner

Probably because it wasn't an issue when only a handful of hackers knew how to do it. Once all the idiots figured out how to steal tethering for free, they did idiot things with it like downloading pr0n 24/7.

Idiots gotta be idiots. This is why hacking should remain in the hands of people who actually know what they are doing.

 

[CylonGlitch]

If AT&T came out and said the following :

Yes, we understand the old Unlimited plan and that some people feel that they should be allowed to do what they want with there data. That was never the intent of the unlimited plan, at that time there was no major streaming video service or tethering option. So we would like to propose the following.

Unlimited iPhone only data (no tethering) : $50/month
10 GB/Month : $50/month ***
4 GB/Month : $20/month ***
2 GB/Month : $15/month ***

*** Use the data any way you want, $5/GB overages apply


Would that make people happy?

 

[rjtyork]

The Facts

It IS legal to jailbreak your iPhone and use software not approved by the manufacturer.
You ARE paying for Unlimited, 4GB, 2GB, or 200 MB worth of data. When you are paying for it, why should it be determined by anybody but you as to how you use that data? It's crooked. You pay the money, you use the data the way you want. If ATT is going to try to charge you for that, there should be a lawsuit.

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!!!!!

You signed a contract with ATT and in that contract it states that although you have "unlimited" data, you can only use it the way they want you to use it. You signed it, so you have to live by it, RIGHT?!

WRONG! Take it to court and sue ATT. They can NOT legally charge you an extra $20 just so you can unlock an ability that your phone already has to use data you already own the way YOU want to use it. It's not constitutional. So jailbreak your phones and use that data the way you want, and if ATT tries to charge you an extra $20, that constitutes a break in your contract unless ATT can prove that YOU were the one breaking the contract. (Which they can't, unless you admit it.)

What this will ultimately lead to is ALL TIERED plans, no more unlimited, BUT you'll be able to use the data you pay for however you want.

As for me, I kept my unlimited plan and I run about 6-8 GB a month through it, but that's for Talkatone. I have google voice, and with that, I get unlimited calling wherever there's 3G through my talkatone app, I get unlimited texting for free, and I got to downgrade my plan to the plan with the least amount of minutes so that my phone bill only comes out to $70/month for unlimited Calls, Texts, and Data. And that's BEFORE my 23% employee discount.

I will hold onto my unlimited data for dear life because I know how much money it's going to save me using google voice in the long run. Plus, if and when ATT gets sued for charging twice for their services, I'll have my unlimited plan to tether with, and I'll be able to shut off my comcast and use my $54/month I give to ATT for unlimited internet at home, unlimited internet on the go, unlimited calls, and unlimited text. I am SET for when this happens.

 

[shanew21]

This could be a mess. I know over the last couple days I've been streaming March Madness games like crazy using the CBS app, and I know I'm not the only one. AT&T may have a lot of false positives here.

 

[aeaglex07]

i
wrong! Take it to court and sue att. They can not legally charge you an extra $20 just so you can unlock an ability that your phone already has to use data you already own the way you want to use it. It's not constitutional. So jailbreak your phones and use that data the way you want, and if att tries to charge you an extra $20, that constitutes a break in your contract unless att can prove that you were the one breaking the contract. (which they can't, unless you admit it.)

what this will ultimately lead to is all tiered plans, no more unlimited, but you'll be able to use the data you pay for however you want.

As for me, i kept my unlimited plan and i run about 6-8 gb a month through it, but that's for talkatone. I have google voice, and with that, i get unlimited calling wherever there's 3g through my talkatone app, i get unlimited texting for free, and i got to downgrade my plan to the plan with the least amount of minutes so that my phone bill only comes out to $70/month for unlimited calls, texts, and data. And that's before my 23% employee discount.

i will hold onto my unlimited data for dear life because i know how much money it's going to save me using google voice in the long run. Plus, if and when att gets sued for charging twice for their services, i'll have my unlimited plan to tether with, and i'll be able to shut off my comcast and use my $54/month i give to att for unlimited internet at home, unlimited internet on the go, unlimited calls, and unlimited text. I am set for when this happens.

this

 

[Jcoz]

If AT&T came out and said the following :

Yes, we understand the old Unlimited plan and that some people feel that they should be allowed to do what they want with there data. That was never the intent of the unlimited plan, at that time there was no major streaming video service or tethering option. So we would like to propose the following.

Unlimited iPhone only data (no tethering) : $50/month
10 GB/Month : $50/month ***
4 GB/Month : $20/month ***
2 GB/Month : $15/month ***

*** Use the data any way you want, $5/GB overages apply


Would that make people happy?

hell yes it would

 

[nicegoogly]

Contracts are not always the result of negotiations. There are take it or leave contracts all over the place. Many posters have said, if you don't like it, don't sign up. Read the contract first. Your ability to walk away is about the only leverage you got, but it still won't change the terms.

Is tethering wrong? In theory, no. People throw the word "illegal" around here but violating a contract or the Terms of Service is no a crime per se, but a violation of the terms of the contract that could have economic/legal consequences. The unlimited data is limited to the device that goes to it. Period. How many of these jailbreak tether supporters have more than one iPhone on their account? You pay for date for EACH device, do you not? It makes it pretty obvious that the data is unlimited but WHERE you use it is not.

One poster made an analogy to a cable company charging you a router fee to use broadband. Funny thing is, Time Warner Cable in NYC, used to charge you per computer you would hook up to a modem. Some people would answer the question "How many computers will you be connecting?" and people would respond with "two or three". Many said one, Time Warner caught a lot of criticism because they could never really know if you did not tell them.

Is there a little bit of fraud to use MyWi...it is murky at best. What is clear that it is not permitted in your TOS. I think is sucks that you can't do it, too. But we have been paying through the nose to use the iPhone from the start. When did that ever change? Wait until Verizon starts their crap with their iPhone customers. I am sticking with AT&T. The devil you know...

What AT&T really needs to do is get the unlimited iPad data rolling again. They wold make a ton of money. Many people waited for the 3G iPad last year. Now, they are the only ones you can find (if you can find any) because some people missed the unlimited data sign up. Some did not need it right away and when they were ready to sign up, no unlimited data. They would sell a lot more iPads, old and new, if they did this.

 

[rjtyork]

If AT&T came out and said the following :

Yes, we understand the old Unlimited plan and that some people feel that they should be allowed to do what they want with there data. That was never the intent of the unlimited plan, at that time there was no major streaming video service or tethering option. So we would like to propose the following.

Unlimited iPhone only data (no tethering) : $50/month
10 GB/Month : $50/month ***
4 GB/Month : $20/month ***
2 GB/Month : $15/month ***

*** Use the data any way you want, $5/GB overages apply




Would that make people happy?

I would actually agree to that, although $5/gb overages doesn't quite make the 2GB/month plan sound good. By that logic, you should get 3 GB for $15.

 

[samcraig]

The only people who have a leg to perhaps stand on for a lawsuit are the people who are on a tiered plan. If you pay for 2 gig - you are entitled to 2 gig.

Put another way - if you pays for 2 hours of long distance - it shouldn't matter how you use it. You've paid for 2 hours.

Those on unlimited plans (like myself) don't have really have a case. The unlimited data is tied to the device - not to multiple devices. We pay for unlimited data ON the iPhone - not THROUGH the iPhone.

And for those suggesting that all this will just lead to everyone being on a tiered plan with people being able to do with their data however they want are a tad naive. That's pretty much what many people have now - and ATT and other companies ARE legitimately able to/and are charging for the ability to tether.

 

[yg17]

Just because a company makes you sign their TOS, it does not make the TOS a Holy Grail law. TOS are only written in the best interest of a company and they are very often faulty.

Unfortunately in some countries, people forget to use common sense and reasoning and take everything the way it is BECAUSE it was written in the TOS, as so many people keep quoting in this forum.There is no such thing as a perfect TOS and even if you sign it, it does not mean you cannot challenge it.

Just because the TOS says so and you sign it, it does not make it right or the law. If it did, a lot of legal professionals would be unemployed and a lot of average Joes/Janes would be in jail.

AT&T is in the business to make money. They will take whatever they can get and however they can get it. AT&T is just as unethical as ......(you get to fill in the blanks ). It is up to the consumer to challenge AT&T's faulty TOS instead of just being passive, quoting and accepting it. It is amazing and worrisome how accepting some people are in this forum. I guess they do not teach critical thinking anymore in schools and/or colleges.

The sad part is that big companies are in bed with the politicians (republicans and democrats in the US) so the government will never step in to protect the interest of consumers.

The TOS is a contract. The contents of a contract are not law, but the fact you signed the contract and agreed to abide by that contract is law. And by tethering without the tethering plan, you are in breach of contract which is illegal.

People should be lucky that AT&T is just warning you then moving you to a tethering plan if you continue tethering, they probably do have grounds to take you to court for theft of service.

 

[CylonGlitch]

I would actually agree to that, although $5/gb overages doesn't quite make the 2GB/month plan sound good. By that logic, you should get 3 GB for $15.

The point is to make it worth it to pay for a larger data plan then you actually need (from AT&T's stand point). IE. 2GB/Month + 2GB of overages should cost more then the 4GB plan. Why? To get you to move to the 4GB plan for an extra $5 per month knowing full well that most months you won't be using that much, you'll only use 2 or 3. But it is also for the smart consumer who realizes this, and signs up for the 2GB plan and MOST of the times stays below 2GB and occasionally will go above, they still win. Basically, win-win for everyone.

Seriously, I would leave my unlimited plan now and go to 4GB/month and drop my wife to the 2GB/month. It would be a big win for us; but also help AT&T.

Maybe we need to present this solution to AT&T; anyone know of a way to do this, or to make it widely know?

 

[manman]

I thought I made clear in my post that this is simply double billing what is supposed to be an unlimited plan for many and I do NOT agree nor think it is ethical for the carriers to do this! But, when people sign a contract and agree to the terms doing otherwise is not being honest. Plain and simple.

No- I totally agree with you, I'm just saying that whether or not it's against the TOS, I just don't think a scenario like that is 'stealing', and I don't feel bad about it. I would feel more like it was unethical if I invited a bunch of people over to all tether to my connection simultaneously and use data that I couldn't otherwise just use by myself.

But I agree that I signed the contract so if they want to come down on me they have the full right to, whether or not I 'feel' what I'm doing is wrong. And I don't buy any of this crap about contracts having to be the result of some kind of sit-down negotiation otherwise it's the same as signing 'under duress'. Lol, come on get real... We're all capable of making our own choices and being responsible for them here.... If someone says "sign here" you are fully responsible for your choice to do it or not, read it or not, whether you understand it or don't.

People should be lucky that AT&T is just warning you then moving you to a tethering plan if you continue tethering, they probably do have grounds to take you to court for theft of service.

Well... that assumes that they CAN prove it, which seems to be a point of disagreement right now. If people actually are calling up and saying "no, I just stream a lot" and AT&T is saying "ok, sorry" then that would indicate to me that their methods for singling these people out are extremely broad and error prone right now, and that they know it. So chances are the data they are basing this on is not something they could take to court.

 

[CylonGlitch]

The only people who have a leg to perhaps stand on for a lawsuit are the people who are on a tiered plan. If you pay for 2 gig - you are entitled to 2 gig.

I would say that those who are on Unlimited who do NOT tether but use a lot of data would also have a leg to stand on. Especially if they got the letter from AT&T.

 

[QCassidy352]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Just because a company makes you sign their TOS, it does not make the TOS a Holy Grail law. TOS are only written in the best interest of a company and they are very often faulty.

Yes, I agree. People here keep calling them "contracts", but in my world contracts are the result of a negotiation between two parties. When you go into an AT&T store and are told "sign here," that's not a negotiation. It's not even "take it or leave it," since you're often only told "oh, just sign here for the legalese." As far as I'm concerned, that's no different than a contract signed under duress, and thus I'm under no moral obligation to go out of my way to ensure I'm in 100% agreement with their TOS at all times.

It's a document designed to protect AT&T and take away most of our consumer rights, nothing more. The idea that it's some sort of sacred bond between us and them is laughable.

No different than under duress? Really? AT&T's TOS are like being told to sign something while being threatened? Good god. Some people will come up with anything to justify getting the results they want. You want to break your contract and get away with it, fine. That's between you and your conscience. But hyperbole like that just makes it look like you're scrambling for a justification.

 

[princealfie]

Which is why I went with Verizon for my iPhone.

 

[kansas-cty-shfl]

In honor of this thread I am streaming NCAA games all day on my iPhone, with my unlimited data plan, even when I am not watching them, just so I can use as much data as possible.

 

[Goldinboy17]

So there's a theory on how AT&T would be able to track tethering usage.

"...simple, such as checking the ID string that all web browsers send as part of a request. If a given account doesn't have tethering, but it has lots of browsing activity from, say, Firefox or the OS X version of Safari, it's pretty much guaranteed they are using something like MyWi."

If that's the case, those of us who only use tethering for our iDevices would be safe. I have to do it pretty often so the kids can check Facebook and such with their iPods, no way am I adding a data plan to their cells yet. For once I'm glad the iPad mobile browser kinda sucks

 

[Gizmotoy]

If AT&T came out and said the following :

Yes, we understand the old Unlimited plan and that some people feel that they should be allowed to do what they want with there data. That was never the intent of the unlimited plan, at that time there was no major streaming video service or tethering option. So we would like to propose the following.

Unlimited iPhone only data (no tethering) : $50/month
10 GB/Month : $50/month ***
4 GB/Month : $20/month ***
2 GB/Month : $15/month ***

*** Use the data any way you want, $5/GB overages apply


Would that make people happy?

It would probably make the vast majority of customers happy, but AT&T would never do something like that.

They LOVE having the majority of their base on the $25 and $30 data plans. I'd guess no more than 10-20% of iPhone users regularly go over 2GB. AT&T would cut their data revenue by more than half by offering such a solution. We know they would never consider this because they offer a mere 250MB for the price you're suggesting should offer 2GB, and tethering is not included. That's, what, a $40 / month pay cut for them for those that tether lightly?

No, they want to charge you full price on the phone data, then charge you additional for the privilege of sending that data to another device... which is exactly what they're doing.

Same goes for those suggesting straight $5/GB. Usage-based billing will never happen because it would cut into the ISPs' profits, wireless or otherwise. Their entire business plan is based upon overselling their available bandwidth and hoping no one uses it. Efforts such as what we're seeing here are focused on keeping it that way.

Until something changes, low data usage customers will continue to subsidize high-volume users. There's absolutely no way around that unless we get usage-based billing.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Well... that assumes that they CAN prove it, which seems to be a point of disagreement right now. If people actually are calling up and saying "no, I just stream a lot" and AT&T is saying "ok, sorry" then that would indicate to me that their methods for singling these people out are extremely broad and error prone right now, and that they know it. So chances are the data they are basing this on is not something they could take to court.

Tell this right now any one who understand tcp and deep packet sniffing will tell you that it is not hard to figure it out. It just cost cpu time and network resources. They are not going to do it to everyone because it cost way to much cpu time.
So what they do is look for usage paterns and times to see it happen. Other dead giveaways is large uploads is a dead giveaway since nothing on the iPhone or other smart phone has large streaming uploads (bit torrent for example)
Or someone with large amount of downloads per month are going to get nailed because they are likely tethers so you start deep packet sniffing those people. Log what browser they are reporting certain ones are going to be flag as desktop browsers.

I just gave you a list of things they can looks for to see who is a canidate for the deep packet sniffing to see who is tethers. I would like to point out deep packet sniffing is legal.

Posted from my backberry 8900

 

[bniu]

4) Data Pro 2GB + Tethering 2GB for a total of 4GB....

Isn't it really DataPro 4GB with Tethering being complimentary?
From what I see, it's this:

1) Grandfathered Unlimited plan $30
2) 200MB plan for $15
3) DataPro 2GB plan for $25
4) DataPro 4GB plan for $45
Tethering being complimentary on DataPro plans of 4GB and higher

 

[Rodimus Prime]

So there's a theory on how AT&T would be able to track tethering usage.

"...simple, such as checking the ID string that all web browsers send as part of a request. If a given account doesn't have tethering, but it has lots of browsing activity from, say, Firefox or the OS X version of Safari, it's pretty much guaranteed they are using something like MyWi."

If that's the case, those of us who only use tethering for our iDevices would be safe. I have to do it pretty often so the kids can check Facebook and such with their iPods, no way am I adding a data plan to their cells yet. For once I'm glad the iPad mobile browser kinda sucks

Well even doing that they could tell. All they have took look at is see if final ip address it is going to is different than what AT&T has assigned your phone dead giveaway you on tethering as the phone is working a router sending the data to other devices.

 

[Howdr]

The only people who have a leg to perhaps stand on for a lawsuit are the people who are on a tiered plan. If you pay for 2 gig - you are entitled to 2 gig.

So I pay $30 a month for 0 Data? Okb? really?

Put another way - if you pays for 2 hours of long distance - it shouldn't matter how you use it. You've paid for 2 hours.

true then we agree, it shouldn't matter how you use data you pay for......

Those on unlimited plans (like myself) don't have really have a case. The unlimited data is tied to the device - not to multiple devices. We pay for unlimited data ON the iPhone - not THROUGH the iPhone.

Please tell us, is the data somehow different it used on a plan that is limited to 1gb or 2gb or 4gb then Unlimited?

Do you see how silly the argument is?

You can't say

"If you have a 2gb plan then you should be able to tether"
"If you have an unlimited plan then you should not be able to tether".

Its contradictory .
Either everyone should pay to hook a phone up to a computer
Or
No one pays

 

[CylonGlitch]

You can't say

"If you have a 2gb plan then you should be able to tether"
"If you have an unlimited plan then you should not be able to tether".

Bah, of course you can. When you have "unlimited" it does not affect you as much by sharing it. Thus people would be more willing to setup private networks at work or wherever with several people on it all sucking down whatever they want. But if you cap that, suddenly people become frugal.

Think of it like this, if you go out an get a bag of cookies, and bring them back to the office. If it's a small bag, you sit in your office and eat them as you wish. Medium bags, you might share with your coworker a cookie or two. But if you have unlimited cookies, EVERYONE will get as many as they want.

My son's friend's father worked for the company that made pokemon cards during the time they were really popular. He got as many as he wanted (including very rare cards) and would bring them in a large bag to school and give them out to everyone. Before he started doing this, kids would trade and try to get one or two good cards; they knew there was a limited supply. Free pokemon cards for everyone really ended it for everyone as well (not really related) because everyone had great cards; so the desire to collect and trade disappeared. [True story by the way]