Yes, they can tell. In fact they don't even have to look at the details of what is being sent. Data routing through a device does not look the same as data requested by the device itself. Theoretically a tethering app could attempt to cloak it's traffic, but none currently exist...
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AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering
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<i>iOS 4.3, they may have access to data they didn't before, and they're choosing to use it in a pretty crappy way.</i>
I wonder if these types shoplift and think that's appropriate too. Newsflash. AT&T owns the network. If you don't like to pay for service then go away. I see customers like this all the time. They think they should get everything free and that they have a special right to my time. Makes me sick.
<i>iOS 4.3, they may have access to data they didn't before, and they're choosing to use it in a pretty crappy way.</i>
I wonder if these types shoplift and think that's appropriate too. Newsflash. AT&T owns the network. If you don't like to pay for service then go away. I see customers like this all the time. They think they should get everything free and that they have a special right to my time. Makes me sick.
newsflash. theres a reason you work retail then. If you don't want customers expecting exemplary service then we don't expect to be overcharged for your subpar performance.
There is a difference between breaking the law and breech of contract....
Apple claimed users were breaking the Digital Millenium Act (which is a law) - when they hacked the code on the iPhone to jailbreak them.
AT&T is saying that you are in breech of contract if you tether without a tethering plan - as outline in the TOS in the contract you sign when opening an account.
You don't understand the customer mindset, apparently. I myself don't expect everything free, but I do expect a fair price for things. That's why I'll never downgrade my iPhone's data to a 2GB/$25 plan from my unlim/$30 plan. The fact that AT&T/Verizon have a virtual lock on the market is what breeds such contempt for them- there aren't many options because they've eaten their competititon. I can't wait to pay more for access once T-Mo is out of it as well...
Careful with the legal advice... The service that you are paying for is defined in your Terms of Service. Anything beyond that could be considered Theft of Service. This is how the Cable companies prosecuted customers for accessing premium channels w/o paying.
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You are in breach of the contract!!!
When 3.0 was released this gave you the ability to tether (this was before the cap on the data plans)!!!
Yes, it is your data and you can use it on your iPhone only. Tehtering is an extra fee that you need a carrier file to enable.
You are breaking the contract, end of story.
Stop being cheap POS and pay for the services you use.
I cannot wait until AT&T does this and we cn see all the posts by all the thiefs complaning they got caught.
Moron, when AT&T allowed tethering with the release of iOS 3.0 you had the ability to add tethering at that time for a $20 fee.
YOU MISSED IT BECUASE YOU WERE TETHERING FOR FREE!!!!
Now that the unlimited data is no longer available you have to move to one of the cap data plans.
AT&T is smart for doing that and they need to find a better way of enforcing it to people who cheat the system.
When 3.0 was released this gave you the ability to tether (this was before the cap on the data plans)!!!
Yes, it is your data and you can use it on your iPhone only. Tehtering is an extra fee that you need a carrier file to enable.
You are breaking the contract, end of story.
Stop being cheap POS and pay for the services you use.
I cannot wait until AT&T does this and we cn see all the posts by all the thiefs complaning they got caught.
Moron, when AT&T allowed tethering with the release of iOS 3.0 you had the ability to add tethering at that time for a $20 fee.
YOU MISSED IT BECUASE YOU WERE TETHERING FOR FREE!!!!
Now that the unlimited data is no longer available you have to move to one of the cap data plans.
AT&T is smart for doing that and they need to find a better way of enforcing it to people who cheat the system.
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Mark my words, this will end up as a Class Action Lawsuit. So they have a caluse in there that states you "Cannot Tether". But, it is NOT stealing. If I'm already paying for "Unlimited Data" it should not matter whether that data is being used directly on my phone, or whether or not my phone is being used as a pass thru to a laptop. At the end of the day, it's 1s and 0s. I should not be required to pay a 2nd monthly fee to have this feature enabled on my phone to use an unlimited service that I already pay for.
That's the crux of all this. Yes, there are people paying for it. Does it make it right that ATT is strong-arming them to double pay for something?? Does your home internet service make you pay for every PC, X-Box, Wii, PS3, BluRay Player, whatever electronics device you may have that is connected to that single IP address portal?? The problem is, this is monopolistic. I cannot go to Verizon, because they have the same clause. So in the meantime, until this is all settled, I choose not to tether. I'm using the bajeesus out of my "Unlimited Data" using approved apps from the App Store. If ATT attempts to tell me that I have to stop tethering when I am not, then I will have suitable grounds to generate a lawsuit at that time.
That's the crux of all this. Yes, there are people paying for it. Does it make it right that ATT is strong-arming them to double pay for something?? Does your home internet service make you pay for every PC, X-Box, Wii, PS3, BluRay Player, whatever electronics device you may have that is connected to that single IP address portal?? The problem is, this is monopolistic. I cannot go to Verizon, because they have the same clause. So in the meantime, until this is all settled, I choose not to tether. I'm using the bajeesus out of my "Unlimited Data" using approved apps from the App Store. If ATT attempts to tell me that I have to stop tethering when I am not, then I will have suitable grounds to generate a lawsuit at that time.
I'm just trying to be realistic here. Right or wrong, it will be very difficult to prove AT&T's enforcement of the contact terms as being illegal.
Your fooling yourself if you think that the court would force AT&T to provide tethering on your unlimited plan. I would think a best scenario for somebody bringing this case would be the court finding the contract invalid, allowing them to break the contract w/o an ETF. You'd end up spending more on the lawyer then you'd save from the ETF.
I agree that the burden of proof is on them, but what would your damages actually be? A refund of the extra amount on your bill? They would settle before it got to court and give you back your $15. They would also probably terminate your plan. You won't get the unlimited plan back.
This is all under the assumption that they would modify your plan under false pretenses. The tech exists to reliably determine devices routing traffic through them. AT&T has the ability to track down tethering with no false positives.
Umm that arguement is not going to hold up.
In their TOS they clearly state that the data used on your unlimited plan is ONLY for the phone.
Now for the tiered data I can see more of a case for it but for unlimited I think it is fine to block tethering. You laptop is doing to suck down a lot more data than your phone can. There is only so much you can do on your phone.
So I wonder how this changes Ipad 2 model plans with individuals that ordered WiFi only models because of the under-the-radar teathering capabilities? I can only imagine there are a crap-ton of them out there.
I have the unlimited data plan and I JB my phone for the occasional travel where hotspots were unavailable. I wonder almost daily why I even did it because I rarely use it. I didn't get any msg from ATT and I take its because of that very reason.
It's interesting to read all of the different posts and I understand each person's arguement.
I agree that the unlimited data plan for the iphone is just for the iphone and not mad at all that this change has come...Heck I just won't teather and I'll just return the phone back to factory standards.
I have the unlimited data plan and I JB my phone for the occasional travel where hotspots were unavailable. I wonder almost daily why I even did it because I rarely use it. I didn't get any msg from ATT and I take its because of that very reason.
It's interesting to read all of the different posts and I understand each person's arguement.
I agree that the unlimited data plan for the iphone is just for the iphone and not mad at all that this change has come...Heck I just won't teather and I'll just return the phone back to factory standards.
How much would it cost me to add tethering to my unlimited data plan? Would I be able to keep unlimited data plus unlimited tethering??
I called ATT and from what I gathered, if you chose the teathering option, you have to decide which capped plan you would like; 2G or 4G. So I believe that unlimited goes away.
Yes its happened in the past when At&t lost.
No I doubt it, if they see an error then they keep people and collect the revenue, how else do they recoup? Its money and if they did this by the thousands it would do no good to let them go.
If At&t is only using high usage as the indication of tethering then yes its false in some cases, if they are detecting packets and its Opra then yes it could be false.
So the answer is yes its possible they could be wrong.
(just trying to debate this some......... I think At&t cannot tell 100% someone is tethering)
They don't care what app the packets are originating from, they care about which device. The primary way to determine if a device is routing traffic is to look at packet TTL (time to live). A tethered device will generate packets one extra network hop away from your phone.
While it may be possible to cloak tethering activity, it is nearly impossible for AT&T to generate a false positive. The only way for them to receive a false positive detection of tethering would be from a phone with a modified network stack that intentionally falsifies this data. What martyr would run such a thing on their phone?
Even then, this is only one of many possible ways to detect tethering. It's pretty safe to say that if they are detecting tethering, it's real.
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It is absolutely without question stealing.
You are paying for unlimited data accessed in a manner in the contract you agreed to with AT&T. You signed the contract, you agreed to the contract.
It does matter though, and even if it didn't matter you still agreed to the contract.
If you don't pay for tethering you are not paying for data to be used for tethering. Why is this so hard to understand. Should I get unlimited data over DSL with my Wireless connection too? I pay for unlimited data.
They are not strong arming anyone. You AGREED to the contract and the terms.
If your Home service provider had a way to provide you a service that was in their control that used up a large amount of bandwidth, they would charge you for it. There is no such comparable service for home usage.
I can't really explain how pricing is set on this stuff, but it is pretty simple. It is based on average usage. Tethering increases average usage, thus someone has to pay for it. AT&T can control who can and can not tether. So they charge extra for that, so they can maintain a lower price for people who don't want to tether.
For home data access the providers just have to charge EVERYONE more for those people who use all those devices you mentioned. If they could charge more for them specifically so they could create more affordable plans for people who did not use them they would.
Not to be mean, but pretty much everyone complaining about this sound like they are on the short side of 20. This has nothing to do with any sort of business monopoly in any way shape or form.
If you can't afford to pay for your tethering, you probably will not be able to afford a lawyer.
Thanks to AT&T adding free mobile to mobile not too long ago, I was able to take my minutes down a notch and save $20 or so a month.
I recently bought a new ipad2 wifi and was traveling with it. Ran into some trouble with bad airport wifi and decided to use the at&t app on my iPhone to enable the 4gb data plan and the personal hotspot tethering.
Im very pleased with how it's working so far. It's fairly easy to turn it on and off as needed on my cell plan. Overall, a good deal in my opinion.
I recently bought a new ipad2 wifi and was traveling with it. Ran into some trouble with bad airport wifi and decided to use the at&t app on my iPhone to enable the 4gb data plan and the personal hotspot tethering.
Im very pleased with how it's working so far. It's fairly easy to turn it on and off as needed on my cell plan. Overall, a good deal in my opinion.
What is not ethical is trying to justify why others should subsidize your usage even further or more importantly those who flat out want to steal service so others have to pay more.
It is not illegal.
It is not the same data.
The foundation for contract law is consideration. There is consideration given here... There is nothing out of bounds here or nothing for a judge to make a decision on other then dismissing any relevant lawsuit.
What are you going to sue them for? Giving you exactly what they agreed to give you for the price they agreed to give it to you for?
That is an unlikely foundation for a succesful legal challenge.
You did not contract with AT&T to get data via tethered. You agreed, in fact, to NOT tether any devices or use your data in that way. If you want to tether the plan exists for you to pay for data for that. It is not the same data, as your contract with AT&T does NOT allow you to use your data for tethering on the unlimited plan and/or without paying for the tethering option.
People keep wanting to say it is the same, but it is absolutely not the same. It is not what AT&T agreed to sell to you, and not what you agreed to pay for... Please supply the contract where AT&T agreed to sell you tethered data for your regular data plan price. Have you even read your contract with AT&T? What contracts say actually are very important to all of this. Not having actually read it is a pretty big drawback to you discussing any of this, that and your apparent inexperience with contracts in general.
You have used more data than you have paid to use. AT&T sets their data usage prices based on average usage of customers. Customers who tether absolutely use more data. That is why they charge more. If they didn't then they would have to charge everyone more money for their access to compensate for the increased cost of usage. Personally, I don't want to pay more per month for you to tether. I am fine with YOU paying for you to tether. I know for some reason some of you who get riled up about this can not comprehend the idea of companies setting their prices on average usage, but I promise you it is extremely common. I have done it in my own businesses for well over 20 years.
Why do companies choose to do this? Because it allows them to price things more affordably as the lower usage customers subsidize the higher usage customers. If everyone got charged exactly for how much they used, or if everyone got charged for the potential of using all their bandwidth every month, then the price for service would be much more. In this case 2 gigs of data from AT&T where you were guaranteed to use all that data every month, you would probably be looking at paying $75-$80 a month.
However since AT&T does price based on average usage, and say the average user might use 300 megs a month, they are able to sell that 2 gig package for only $25.00. If they include tethering for free the average will go up, because nobody who adds tethering will start using less data overall. With this addition, say the average monthly usage goes up to 600 megs a month. AT&T's expense for providing that data has now doubled. To make up for it, AT&T has a few options. They could just eat it and potentially lose money, or have significantly reduced profits, at the very best.
Secondly they could raise the price for everyone and perhaps raise the price to $35 a month for everyone and it would include tethering. Even the person who uses 250 megs a month would be paying $35 a month.
Thirdly, they could charge those people who want to tether a fee for that access to cover their increased bandwidth usage. This allows them to maintain a lower price point for the rest of their customers. So they guy using 250 megs who continues to use 250 megs keeps paying $25 a month, and the guy who went from using 900 megs a month to using 2.7 gigs a month pays $45 a month, thus covering their own increased costs for using the network.
Certainly some may claim that AT&T should just eat the increased cost, but that is not a reasonable expectation when considering all factors. So really the only correct solution for everyone is for AT&T to do what they are doing.
They are already stretching the tolerance for customer subsidization as it is. Introducing the $15 plan was a big help with that, as previously those people were paying $15 more per month for less than 200 megs they used every month, so some other guy could use 20 gigs a month.
What if AT&T tiered it even further and made it so everyone pays $8 per 500 megs they use a month. So someone who uses 400 megs a month pays only $8 for data, and the guy who uses 3.2 gigs pays $56 a month. If they did that then they could probably include tethering.
Yeah it comes down to me not wanting to spend my money for your internet data. I want you to spend your own money for your internet data. AT&T seems to agree.
Funny, I signed a contract when tethering wasn't even an option, nor was it even thought of by most people.