AT&T Looking to Add '4G' Network Indicator to iPhone 4S Status Bar

[rjohnstone]

basically marketing BS

True, but you can blame the ITU for the BS.
They didn't have to give in to T-Mobile and later, AT&T.
But they had a compelling argument.
Sprint was calling WiMax 4G when T-Mobile implemented their 21Mbps HSPA+ network.
T-Mobile proved their network was faster than Sprints, so they said they should be able to call their network 4G as well.
Once AT&T hopped into the fray supporting T-Mobile's position, the rest was history.

The ITU lost credibility when they caved.

 

[Geckotek]

True, but you can blame the ITU for the BS.
They didn't have to give in to T-Mobile and later, AT&T.
But they had a compelling argument.
Sprint was calling WiMax 4G when T-Mobile implemented their 21Mbps HSPA+ network.
T-Mobile proved their network was faster than Sprints, so they said they should be able to call their network 4G as well.
Once AT&T hopped into the fray supporting T-Mobile's position, the rest was history.

The ITU lost credibility when they caved.

Yeah, but they had no way of enforcing their standard. They can't make the carriers comply.

 

[cult hero]

I think Grandpa would find it easier to understand that 14Mbps is faster than 7Mbps. As it is, you would have to explain that this version of 3G is faster than this other version of 3G, which to most I would expect is more confusing.

I think "Grandpa" does know the difference between G, E, 3G and anything else. Grandpa will react purely to the perceptible speed.

 

[rjohnstone]

Yeah, but they had no way of enforcing their standard. They can't make the carriers comply.

Yep... sucks too because consumer confusion is now through the roof.

 

[cult hero]

Yep... sucks too because consumer confusion is now through the roof.

Does it really matter? Tech geeks are the only ones who care and they know what's up. Most people simply do not.

Do you think a vast majority of people buying the iPhone 4S know or care? I seriously doubt it. These are the same people that get advice about what computer to buy from random blueshirts at Best Buy.

 

[Geckotek]

Does it really matter? Tech geeks are the only ones who care and they know what's up. Most people simply do not.

Do you think a vast majority of people buying the iPhone 4S know or care? I seriously doubt it. These are the same people that get advice about what computer to buy from random blueshirts at Best Buy.

It's not that they care, it's that due to their own ignorance of the subject, they can be easily believe that one technology is just as good as the other because they both say 4G.

These standards exist in order that the consumer can continue to stay unaware and not care about the details. When companies jump in and start muddying the waters, the consumers potentially suffer.

 

[Exhale]

Does it really matter?

Does user experience matter? Does it matter if A is a little bit smoother than B?

 

[marksman]

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I tried to do some research about what makes a device and network 4G, and my head nearly exploded. So, here's what I concluded. The masses will ever understand (or care) exactly what makes 4G, 4G. What makes sense, is that 4G is faster than 3G. Really easy to understand. So, if AT&T is stating that they want to make it clear that the iPhone 4S - on their network - can achieve speeds more similar to common 4G networks, by placing a logo that reads 4G when you've achieved those speeds, good for them.

All it says to me is that "I'm going faster", and who doesn't like to know when they're going faster.

It also, of course, allows them to take advantage of the only competitive advantage they have, over unlimited data, and the illusion of the "nation's best most reliable network".

There is no 4g technology like there is 3G technology. 4g is a marketing term.

 

[swordfish5736]

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Att just wants to do this so they can charge iPhone 4S owners for "4G" data

 

[The Californian]

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Sooooooooo AT&T wants to charge us an extra ten bucks for the data on our "4G" devices?

 

[Swift]

What should happen

The standards body decided that 4G was LTE, with a lot of specs for the minimum the phone has to deliver. None of the participants are giving us 4G yet. It's an ad slogan.

So what should happen? Not being "4G" but claiming you are is commercial fraud, and everyone who makes that claim should face a large fine from the FCC, or maybe from the Consumer Financial thingie.

 

[aristotle]

What I don't get is that we are all ok calling both CDMA and HSPA 3G even though CDMA is theoretically more like 2.5G but people balk at calling HSPA+ 4G. Double standards?

If 3G can be anything over CDMA speeds then 4G could be WiMax to HSPA+ to LTE.

I personally consider WiMax to be 3.5G.

 

[cult hero]

Does user experience matter? Does it matter if A is a little bit smoother than B?

Depends on dozens of variables. I'm saying the average iPhone buyer is more concerned with whether or not it's the latest and greatest iPhone than the speed of the network.

Additionally, I was saying the customer confusion is irrelevant because the average customer cares more about the perceptible speed than whether it's called "4G" or "HSPA+."

I'm not saying bandwidth doesn't make a difference. However, my mom would probably take a Mac on some slow DSL line over a Windows box on fiber. Bandwidth only has to be "good enough" for most people.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

The map itself is clear, it's the color key that's confusing.

What they call 4G is HSPA+.
What they call 'Mobile Broadband' is normal 3G.
And they label EDGE honestly, for some reason.

AT&T LTE is only in Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Chicago, and Atlanta.

If you're looking at their map in any other city and see the '4G' color, you're seeing HSPA+.


Go here and click 'Coverage' to see those 5 cities:
http://www.att.com/network/

Go here and type a zip code to see the HSPA+ areas.
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/#?type=data

Can you have piss poor AT&T 3G service and good AT&T Faux G on the 4GS (HSPA+)? The reason I ask is that according to the AT&T coverage map (I know you need to take these maps with a HUGE grain of salt) I am smack dab in the middle of 4G coverage. Yet my AT&T 3G service is Horrible. I average 1 bar and go from Edge to 3 bars max on my 3GS. I average only 0.47Mbps down and 0.17Mbps up on Speed test . If I get a 4Gs on AT&T, could I see improvement? I am unsatisfied with AT&Ts 3G service in my area and want to know if there is a link to their 4G.

 

[Mr. Chewbacca]

I can totaly see ATT throttling phones that don't pay a 4g upgrade fee... damn!

 

[toddybody]

Semantics aside...I could care less about the technical accuracy of 4G vs H+...


I wish the question was, how can we (Verizon/AT&T) bring back unlimited data to our customer base...after all, our rates keep rising as value declines. Strides in technology usually provide cheaper and more reliable/efficient capabilities. Instead, the service providers are getting greedy and moving us backward.

 

[CounterCulture]

i personally dont see the point for someone to argue about who has 4G and who doesnt. it really comes down to real world use and whether or not youre even getting 14.4 4G speeds. every phone should just have a live down & up monitor. computers have em, why not a phone.


my real concern is that if AT&T ends up considering iPhone 4S data as 4G, would everyone including myself with unlimited 3G data usage be forced to switch to a different data plan?

 

[tslewis]

Can you have piss poor AT&T 3G service and good AT&T Faux G on the 4GS (HSPA+)? The reason I ask is that according to the AT&T coverage map (I know you need to take these maps with a HUGE grain of salt) I am smack dab in the middle of 4G coverage. Yet my AT&T 3G service is Horrible. I average 1 bar and go from Edge to 3 bars max on my 3GS. I average only 0.47Mbps down and 0.17Mbps up on Speed test . If I get a 4Gs on AT&T, could I see improvement? I am unsatisfied with AT&Ts 3G service in my area and want to know if there is a link to their 4G.

Dude, you are in teh same boat as me. Im only still with AT&T because I didnt want to lose my unlimited and didnt want to go with a CDMA only phone with verizon.

I have been constantly complaining to AT&T this year, as I have been with them for 4 years now since getting a 3G.

They alwasy say they will improve the network but never have. Since movign to a new job in culver city I literally have no coverage. On average my phone is a break for 80% fo the day. Im sick of it.

They have been screwing iphone users for years now promising a change. They have done nothing in 4 yeasr to imporve my coverage.

Im done. So glad Sprint have the iphone. I dont care about speed, its useless if u dont have coverage. Plus sprign are offering SMS for free. ST&T have routinely charged me 30 bucks a month on top when Ive had to use SMS becuase im unable to make a call on their crappy network.

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i personally dont see the point for someone to argue about who has 4G and who doesnt. it really comes down to real world use and whether or not youre even getting 14.4 4G speeds. every phone should just have a live down & up monitor. computers have em, why not a phone.


my real concern is that if AT&T ends up considering iPhone 4S data as 4G, would everyone including myself with unlimited 3G data usage be forced to switch to a different data plan?

Yes i dont have a link for it, but I udnerstand if you switch to a 4G plan you lose your unlimited. Another reason why im going to sprint.

 

[wovel]

However, we do know that Apple calls it HSDPA and not HSPA+. What else do we need to know?

I am fairly certain we don't really know what Apple calls it. The slide title was clearly an error.

I think his problem was with the implication that "HSDPA + HSUPA = HSPA+" which is not necessarily true.

The "D" and "U" just stand for the Download and Upload components of the standard. HSPA was one standard, which has both D and U components. HSPA+ is a new standard, and it also has D and U components.

He said it equaled HSPA/HSPA+. I agree an or would have been a lot better than a slash. But calling the totally wrong was either dishonest or ignorant.

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i personally dont see the point for someone to argue about who has 4G and who doesnt. it really comes down to real world use and whether or not youre even getting 14.4 4G speeds. every phone should just have a live down & up monitor. computers have em, why not a phone.


my real concern is that if AT&T ends up considering iPhone 4S data as 4G, would everyone including myself with unlimited 3G data usage be forced to switch to a different data plan?

I actually think that was the point Apple made as well. That is also why I find it unlikely they are considering At&Ts request.

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You're trusting the details of a Wikipedia article?

IN fairness, that was the sole source that seemed acceptable to the guy he was talking to.

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Aaaand... you're a boring troll. Go crawl back under your bridge, please. The grownups here are talking. Shouldn't you be doing your homework or something?

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I am pretty sure the diversity antenna system of the 4S is not the same as MIMO. MIMO can advance speed if memory serves, the system on the 4S is really for reliability only, from what I gather.

I don't think the 4s has MIMO either. Which is why AT&T and Anand both claim possible HSPA+ speeds but no one has said the 4s is HSPA+. It is likely the radio does support HSPA+.

It is all semantics, the end user wants to know how fast it is. For many GSM users it will be faster than the 4 and as fast as many phones claiming to be 4G. I doubt AT&Ts dream of a 4g icon on the 4s is going to happen.

 

[Stratus Fear]

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You're trusting the details of a Wikipedia article?

Actually no, I base my info from 3GPP.org, but felt compelled to use the poster's own info against him.

I like how you say this but either missed or ignored my follow up post

 

[SwissMac2]

AT&T does NOT have 4G because it is not running LTE. HSPA+ and HSDPA+ are described by telecoms technologists as being 3.5G.

I do wish someone would sue AT&T for spreading so much falsehood. In the UK and Europe such false advertising would be illegal, but I guess in the US Corporations are more important than consumers.

 

[bassfingers]

I think it would make sense to display it as '3G+'. I'm sure Apple had a reason for not touting 4G and I'm sure it's connected to the iPhone 5.

There will never be an iPhone 5. The next iPhone will be the SIXTH iPhone

 

[Number 41]

AT&T does NOT have 4G because it is not running LTE. HSPA+ and HSDPA+ are described by telecoms technologists as being 3.5G.

I do wish someone would sue AT&T for spreading so much falsehood. In the UK and Europe such false advertising would be illegal, but I guess in the US Corporations are more important than consumers.

You mean like the International Telecommunications Union?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374564,00.asp

Over the weekend the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) loosened its definition of 4G to include LTE, WiMax, and HSPA+.

"As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as '4G,' although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed," the ITU said a statement.

In other words, all that public bickering over which carrier really has 4G (previous answer: zero) was all for naught. Based on the new guideline, commercially deployed LTE (Verizon), WiMax (Sprint) and HSPA+ (T-Mobile) can all call themselves "4G."

HSPA+ is 4G. It might not be the fastest 4G network, but it's 4G.

 

[bretm]

Don't see this happening.

We have an Atrix. The screen never says 4G. It simply says HSPA+. Which, in any speed test, is still slower than my iPhone 4 right next to it. Same network. Same location. Crappy Atrix pos.

 

[bretm]

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There is no 4g technology like there is 3G technology. 4g is a marketing term.

In 3G land AT&T is faster and carries voice and data simultaneously. On Verizon 3G well, doesn't and is generally half as fast. No wonder they rushed to 4G!