AT&T Publicly Responds to Verizon Ad Campaign

[BeyondtheTech]

3G GSM technology (HSDPA/UMTS) allows simultaneous voice and data calls. This has been such a great feature that even worked when I was surfing on my notebook that tethered 3G on my old AT&T Motorola RAZR via Bluetooth, while talking to my wife over the same phone. You can't beat that convenience.

FWIK, the current iteration of EVDO that Sprint and Verizon use do not support simultaneous voice and data. EVDV would have been able to do it, but was killed off. SVDO was also announced, but since the next generation of cellular technology is LTE, all 4G handsets in the future should be able to handle it.

However, 3G on my RAZR then was much better and consistent than 7.2Mbps 3G on my iPhone 3GS today, and that's obviously due to all the traffic that all the new smartphones are causing. Like I mentioned on other blogs, when AT&T is so proud to release new 7.2Mbps 3G products, I say it's like being given keys to drive a Ferrari, but someone will be sitting next to you, pulling the handbrake every 90 seconds.

 

[freediverdude]

Well the reason they're not comparing apples to apples, is because Verizon's coverage map that they're showing includes both EVDO rev. A and regular EVDO. EVDO rev. A is similar in speed to AT&T's 3G, and regular EVDO is similar in speed to AT&T's EDGE. Verizon is just technically allowed to call their regular EVDO coverage "3G". So to compare maps accurately as far as speed and coverage, you would need to compare the map Verizon is showing in the commercials with a map of AT&T's 3G and EDGE coverage. So the ad is misleading, and I don't blame AT&T for being upset.

 

[matiofatio]

edge is has slightly faster throughput but a much higher latency then 1xrtt so downloading a file on edge might be a bit faster but web surfing will definitely be faster on 1xrtt because of its lower latency.

 

[topmounter]

I would love to see what Verizon's network looked like if it was trying to handle all the iPhone data traffic

Of course your network is going to be awesome if you refuse to carry the iPhone and only launch ho-hum phones with crappy browsers.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

An Iphone that only works sometimes. An Iphone that drops calls.

Nonetheless, I still love it...no, I'm IN love with it. So I guess I have to deal with all that other bad stuff. lol

My brother constantly bitches about AT&T with his iPhone. But he can't live without that device now. It does too much other stuff!

 

[chstr]

att coverage sucks. who are they trying to kid? verizon is worlds better

 

[jaw04005]

Part of me wants to say, “Shut up AT&T and improve your crappy network.”

But the other part of me wants to see this proceed on and prompt the FCC to define what defines “3G” and what’s the minimum throughput speeds associated with 3G terminology.

Customers don’t care if they’re on a “1G”, “2.5G” or “3G” networks. They care what their download and upload speeds are going to be connected to that network with associated signal strength. Something the carriers don’t like to disclose.

Take AT&T for example, look how ambiguous their 3G technology page is. At least Verizon associates a kbps download speed with their 3G coverage.

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/technology/3g-umts.jsp

http://phones.verizonwireless.com/3g/

 

[kas23]

the thing is i don't see that verizon has lied in their ads and i don't see that att has lied in their response--they're both slightly misleading in ignoring and not posting some of the facts, but that's advertising for you

Exactly, advertising isn't about telling the truth, but selling a product. Who are Apple to talk about misleading commercials? We all know that the iPhone does not work the way it works in their commericals. Yet, they still have these commercials.

Verizon works for Verizon, it is not their job to clarify things about AT&T's map. The bottom line is that Verizon is not lying. Anyways, as other people have pointed out, you can have 5 bars of 3G on AT&T and still not be receiving a quality signal; one where you can have a normal telephone conversation.

 

[thunderclap]

While I love my iPhone I hate AT&T's service. It seems like this is the case for most people. I live in Chicago and constantly have the services changing and it's real annoying. It's to the point that when my contract with AT&T expires next summer I'm considering moving to Verizon and getting the Droid. It's actually a pretty good phone from what I've seen of it. My hope is that Apple switches providers, but I don't know how likely that is.

 

[bradl]

Well the reason they're not comparing apples to apples, is because Verizon's coverage map that they're showing includes both EVDO rev. A and regular EVDO. EVDO rev. A is similar in speed to AT&T's 3G, and regular EVDO is similar in speed to AT&T's EDGE. Verizon is just technically allowed to call their regular EVDO coverage "3G". So to compare maps accurately as far as speed and coverage, you would need to compare the map Verizon is showing in the commercials with a map of AT&T's 3G and EDGE coverage. So the ad is misleading, and I don't blame AT&T for being upset.

Wow.. a rational and informative comment in this entire thread. How bloody shocking.

I'll also go on record and say that I must be the only one on this entire forum who has yet to experience a dropped call anywhere I've been with the iPhone, regardless of EDGE or 3G. Places I've been:

CA: Sacramento, Davis, Vacaville, Vallejo, Berkeley, San Fransisco, Redwood City, Folsom, Roseville, Placerville, S. Lake Tahoe.

NV: Las Vegas, Henderson, Boulder City, Mesquite, Moapa, Beatty, Fallon, Tonopah, Lake Tahoe, Carson City, Reno, Laughlin.

NE: Omaha, Lincoln, Millard, Kearney, Bellevue.

IA: Des Moines, Council Bluffs, Sioux City.

AZ: Phoenix, Mesa, Wickenburg, Prescott, Kingman, Bullhead City, Flagstaff.

CO: Denver.

OK: Hugo, McAlester, Henrietta, Oklahoma City, Midwest City, Del City, Tulsa, Guthrie, Ardmore, Durant, Olkmugee, Jenks.

MO: Kansas City, Independence, Flourissant, St. Louis, St. Charles.

KY: Louisville.

Seems kinda hard for me to believe that ATT has such a crappy network, when I'm getting results everywhere I go.

BL.

 

[dmelgar]

Well the reason they're not comparing apples to apples, is because Verizon's coverage map that they're showing includes both EVDO rev. A and regular EVDO. EVDO rev. A is similar in speed to AT&T's 3G, and regular EVDO is similar in speed to AT&T's EDGE. Verizon is just technically allowed to call their regular EVDO coverage "3G". So to compare maps accurately as far as speed and coverage, you would need to compare the map Verizon is showing in the commercials with a map of AT&T's 3G and EDGE coverage. So the ad is misleading, and I don't blame AT&T for being upset.

Not true!
Regular EVDO is no where near as slow as EDGE.

1xRTT: 50Kbps - 100Kbps Upload and Download (bursts to 144Kbps)
EVDO Rev 0: 400kbps-1000kbps Download (bursts up to 2.0Mbps), 50kbps-100kbps Upload (bursts to 144Kbps)
EVDO Rev A: 600Kbps-1,400Kbps Download (bursts to 3.1Mbps), 500Kbps-800Kbps Upload (bursts to 1.8Mbps)

EDGE is in the 100-200 kbps range, although I only get 65kbps due to lousy coverage.

 

[aokiqiao]

Actually I have a friend with a "dumbphone" with AT&T and he doesnt get as much dropped calls as me and he always has way more bars than me. Mine will switch from 3G to EDGE to nothing back and forth and his signal is more consistant. Maybe its just the iphone?

 

[jav6454]

Well the reason they're not comparing apples to apples, is because Verizon's coverage map that they're showing includes both EVDO rev. A and regular EVDO. EVDO rev. A is similar in speed to AT&T's 3G, and regular EVDO is similar in speed to AT&T's EDGE. Verizon is just technically allowed to call their regular EVDO coverage "3G". So to compare maps accurately as far as speed and coverage, you would need to compare the map Verizon is showing in the commercials with a map of AT&T's 3G and EDGE coverage. So the ad is misleading, and I don't blame AT&T for being upset.

Pretty much this. EDGE is a 3G technology. However, because actual speeds (not theoretical) don't reach over 200 Kb/s people call it 2.75G. However, it has been accepted as a 3G technology. You don't beleive me? See Internationals Mobile Union say on the matter. They say it's a 3G.. I mean, all AT&T has to do is switch whatever is covered in EDGE colors to Blue 3G colors and pretty much they can counter Verizon. After all, Vericrap's EV-DO Rev.0 network is much much slower than EDGE.

Not true!
Regular EVDO is no where near as slow as EDGE.

1xRTT: 50Kbps - 100Kbps Upload and Download (bursts to 144Kbps)
EVDO Rev 0: 400kbps-1000kbps Download (bursts up to 2.0Mbps), 50kbps-100kbps Upload (bursts to 144Kbps)
EVDO Rev A: 600Kbps-1,400Kbps Download (bursts to 3.1Mbps), 500Kbps-800Kbps Upload (bursts to 1.8Mbps)

EDGE is in the 100-200 kbps range, although I only get 65kbps due to lousy coverage.

Sorry, those are all theoretical BURST speeds, not actual sustained. FAIL

 

[kevnaca]

Well the reason they're not comparing apples to apples, is because Verizon's coverage map that they're showing includes both EVDO rev. A and regular EVDO. EVDO rev. A is similar in speed to AT&T's 3G, and regular EVDO is similar in speed to AT&T's EDGE. Verizon is just technically allowed to call their regular EVDO coverage "3G". So to compare maps accurately as far as speed and coverage, you would need to compare the map Verizon is showing in the commercials with a map of AT&T's 3G and EDGE coverage. So the ad is misleading, and I don't blame AT&T for being upset.

It's all Rev. A from 2007. http://www.fiercewireless.com/press...-broadband-network-now-enhanced-faster-speeds

 

[knewsom]

We have to look at the bigger picture here.

All this Verizon vs ATT crap is giving me a headache. Verizon is clearly in the wrong and making an inaccurate comparison - let's call a spade a spade here. Sure, ATT does exaggerate some of their features and effectively took credit for Apple's App store for the iPhone, but let's face it - these ARE features accessible from iPhones on THEIR NETWORK, NOT VERIZON's.

Now, as for the bigger picture - ever consider there's a reason that ATT isn't scrambling to put 3G up everywhere? 3G has its limitations, as many of us have noticed - like being used INDOORS. 4G, however, is MUCH better with that, and faster too. So the real question is not who is the better network NOW. It's who is going to be a better network in a year? Or two years? Frankly, I've got my money on ATT. Verizon has consistently been slow to adopt new technology, while ATT has moved on it much quicker. Not as fast as Sprint, but they're much more comprehensive.

I also want to add a comment regarding free usage when on WiFi - I ENTIRELY second that, and suggest that ATT enables VoIP rates similar to competition for overseas calling. This would ease 3G traffic, and make a LOT of customers REALLY REALLY happy.

 

[jaw04005]

Actually I have a friend with a "dumbphone" with AT&T and he doesnt get as much dropped calls as me and he always has way more bars than me. Mine will switch from 3G to EDGE to nothing back and forth and his signal is more consistant. Maybe its just the iphone?

I’ve wondered that also. I’ve also wondered if AT&T negotiates signal strength and traffic differently on their towers for iPhone devices compared to “dumb phone” devices.

 

[Aaton35]

From a subject point of view, I greatly prefer the Verizon network. I rarely experience any dropped calls on Verizon, the speeds from my USB modem are insane and call quality is almost always crystal clear. AT&T in the New York area is pretty good, however, when I travel to Florida, Texas, Minnesota or Southern California, AT&T call quality and reliability is a nightmare when compared to Verizon in those same areas. Unfortunately, Verizon lacks 2 things that I love about AT&T, the iPhone and rollover minutes.

I own a 3GS and a Moto Droid. The iPhone is simply the greatest smartphone I've ever used and I've gone through 8 Blackberries and an HTC Winmo device. The usability of the iPhone OS and the apps you can get for it make using it so much fun. The Droid is cool but the battery life is abysmal and the OS is clunky and slow. There is a lot of stutter when navigating through screens and basic functions like opening PDF applications is an absolute chore. The iPhone OS is smooth and beautiful and web browsing on the iPhone is not at all frustrating.

Long story short...

The day Verizon gets the iPhone and rollover minutes, they will be pretty much unstoppable.

These comments are purely my opinion

 

[nagromme]

Everyone I know on AT&T hates AT&T and wants Verizon.

Everyone I know on Verizon hates Verizon and wants AT&T.

There are no good choices. I just want two cans and a string.

Bottom line: if you live anywhere AT&T gives you a signal, an iPhone is great! If you don’t... you can’t get an iPhone so get whatever deal you can find.

As for Verizon’s 3G... if it doesn’t work at the same time as voice, then it’s unacceptable to me. That’s a deal-breaker, when AT&T lets me look stuff up while I’m on a call.

 

[Ammo]

I love how people want to rip on Verizon even though they have the best network.

FACT: When I had Cingular (before it was at&t) I had to go outside to get any signal on my phone.

With Verizon I can sit in my basement and the signal is crystal clear.

I want a iPhone desperately, but it's not worth leaving the Verizon network over.

 

[DaReal_Dionysus]

I was just traveling around the country and had no issues with my AT&T 3G Coverage. As a matter of fact my friend has Verizon and could't even use his phone in a multitude of areas. I had to let him use my phone on a number of occasions. I experience no such issues.

 

[pmjoe]

AT&T failed to say what was "false" in Verizon's ads. If I was Verizon, I'd sue for libel.

 

[jaw04005]

All this Verizon vs ATT crap is giving me a headache. Verizon is clearly in the wrong and making an inaccurate comparison - let's call a spade a spade here. Sure, ATT does exaggerate some of their features and effectively took credit for Apple's App store for the iPhone, but let's face it - these ARE features accessible from iPhones on THEIR NETWORK, NOT VERIZON's.

How is Verizon wrong? Their ad compares “3G coverage” and uses the actual map from AT&T’s Web site. It’s not comparing 2.5G coverage or call coverage.

I haven’t noticed AT&T trying to take credit for Apple’s iPhone features. I have noticed they have “The nation’s fastest 3G network” ads everywhere and they used to have “The nation’s largest 3G network” ads everywhere too until Verizon complained. Now, they say "The nation’s largest 3G network on the GSM standard.”

Now, as for the bigger picture - ever consider there's a reason that ATT isn't scrambling to put 3G up everywhere? 3G has its limitations, as many of us have noticed - like being used INDOORS. 4G, however, is MUCH better with that, and faster too. So the real question is not who is the better network NOW. It's who is going to be a better network in a year? Or two years? Frankly, I've got my money on ATT.

Who signs up with a cell carrier based on what type of coverage they *may* have in one or two years? I haven’t seen polling, but that has to be a smallest of the smallest minority of customers.

 

[dyler]

Why does noone talk about the technical details?

Hello,


Does everyone understand that Verizon's so called 3g coverage is bs. Most of this so called 3g network is EVDO Rev 1 on this map they are showing on TV. This would be the same speeds as ATT edge. You have to compare Verizon's broadband availability to really compare. If you compare Edge to EVDO Rev1 they are in exactly the same places and if you compare Verizon's broadband wireless to ATT 3g they are exactly the same. If verizon was truthful then they would show a map showing red areas with broadband and then lighter red where EVDO rev 1 is and then ATT would be dark blue for 3g and then light blue for edge, that would be truthful comparisons but they knew if they did this then it would be the same map for both and their networks would be comparable and that would not work for their false advertising so they decided to do the evil thing and just lie to American consumers instead of telling the truth but what else do I expect from a company that sponsors extreme right wing rhetoric and events with the likes of Sean Hannity who was attacking our president at the rally and calling him Hitler, so verizon has now basically lied to the American public and supports a rally that is calling our President Hitler, all Americans whether they agree with Barack or not should call foul on this company and boycott them for these things!!!!

 

[dmelgar]

Pretty much this. EDGE is a 3G technology. However, because actual speeds (not theoretical) don't reach over 200 Kb/s people call it 2.75G. However, it has been accepted as a 3G technology. You don't beleive me? See Internationals Mobile Union say on the matter. They say it's a 3G.. I mean, all AT&T has to do is switch whatever is covered in EDGE colors to Blue 3G colors and pretty much they can counter Verizon. After all, Vericrap's EV-DO Rev.0 network is much much slower than EDGE.



Sorry, those are all theoretical BURST speeds, not actual sustained. FAIL

Why is anyone trying to defend AT&T?
It lists non-burst speeds. Those are sustained. I've never had less than 400kbps on EVDO. Typically 700-1.2mbps. I've never had more then 140kbps with EDGE.
iPhone is great. AT&T is not.

 

[kdarling]

Pretty much this. EDGE is a 3G technology. However, because actual speeds (not theoretical) don't reach over 200 Kb/s people call it 2.75G.

Wrong. It has nothing to do with actual EDGE speeds, low as they are.

One reason ATT itself does not consider its EDGE to be 3G, is because its implementation (and the capability of the iPhone's chip) limit it to ~240Kbps even as a theoretical maximum.

The ONLY way that EDGE can meet 3G speeds (usually defined as 348+Kbps in a mobile device) is to take up all voice and data timeslots in a single direction... and that technically cannot happen on ATT or the iPhone. In other words, 3G is impossible on ATT EDGE. End of story.

Note: ATT themselves do NOT dispute Verizon's 3G maps. Not at all. Their complaint is that Verizon is using white space on ATT's map to show no-3G, which they claim is confusing since white on Verizon's map happens to correspond also with no coverage at all.

People might want to read the ATT complaint before making up disputes that don't exist.