AT&T rep: iPhone is a "toy phone"

[gibbz]

I've used Blackberries and Iphones products as far as i'm concerned If I was using the phone for business I would not go with the Iphone for many reasons

1.Iphone will not forward messages (HUGE Problem) and the email compared to that of a blackberry is subpar.

I'll give you the text messaging forwarding, but please clarify why email is subpar. I have Exchange setup and it works great.

2. 90% of big businesses operate a BES or BIS Server which the blackberry is in direct connection with. This will allow the blackberry to automatically update with any info the business needs to get out to there people.

Considering that RIM marketshare is at 44.5%, the 90% estimate seems a bit high. Link?

3. We all know the Iphone does not have as good a speaker or call quality compared to that of a blackberry.

Link? I have no problems with speaker or call quality. Seems like a baseless statement. Who is "we all"?

4. The Iphone and all other apple products have Many Many Many more bugs thats why when you go to the apple store and to the Genius Bar they have to take reservations because they are always backed up with stupid problems with their products.

I'll give you that 2.0 has been buggy. That is to be expected since the iPhone is a scaled version of Mas OS X. You see, the iPhone is really a mobile computing platform. I personally love the great product support. I can go to an Apple store for tech help or replacements, instead of talking to clueless AT&T reps or mailing in the device for repair. Sometimes, however, I think the term "Genius" is very much an overstatement given some of the encounters I've had in the store.

5.Iphones battery life does not last anywhere near that of a blackberries.

Overstated. First, Blackberry does not have a 3G AT&T device out yet (soon). For the BB device running on Sprint and Verizon's EvDO, most differences were 8 minutes, with the best being 30 minutes longer. See here.

6. The Iphone cannot copy and paste that is so annoying. The blackberry of course can.

Agreed here. I wish it did have copy paste. This would make many things much easier.

BlackBerry has been playing in this field for years, let's give the iPhone some time to catch up and see what happens.

+1

 

[redman042]

I'll throw in my $0.02 as a business user. I just chucked my 2 year old Motorola Q WinMo phone for an iPhone 3G. I use it as much for business as I do personal use. I'm a civil engineer. So far I'm 120% satisfied. The iPhone does everything I need for business, and does it with elegance.

I'm a heavy user of calendar, contacts, and email. I set up automatic push sync with my company's Exchange 2003 server in about 5 minutes, and it has worked flawlessly since. I have 650 contacts and the iPhone handles them just fine, save for the initial loading lag which I know will be fixed soon.

I'm still refining my touch typing technique, but I'm already doing pretty good, and I'd say it's no more frustrating than the cramped little keys on my Moto Q.

There are some things missing but I consider them minor, easy to work around, and far outweighed by the substantially improved user experience of the iPhone. I no longer dread responding to an email or entering an appointment - I actually look forward to it. And it's fast to do so.

Granted my company does not use BES. If we did, then I think those advanced Blackberry features come into play and a Blackberry is the right choice.

But BES aside, I completely disagree with the statement that the Blackberries have significant business functions that the iPhone does not have. If I'm missing something, please tell me what it is.

Oh, and MrGiggles058, the iPhone WILL forward messages, with attachments, just like any other smartphone. Maybe it didn't before 2.0 (I wouldn't know), but it certainly does now.

 

[boardtrick]

AT&T Reps are crazy...

this is great...when I called an AT&T store to ask about ordering the iphone the rep got real serious and asked why i even liked the iphone, since it only supports 3G, and AT&T is introducing its 5G network soon. Either she's crazy or...well, yeah she's crazy.

 

[markgamber]

Overstate much?

I agree that the iPhone is missing (or not as good in) some aspects of crucial business phones, but 90%? I don't think so. I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but the hyperbole is really something.

I'm coming from a Treo, and I had to make a few sacrifices to move the the iPhone, but I did it with my eyes open, and I'm finding my way through to get what I need done. I definitely understand why some Blackberry users are staying with Blackberry, but I wouldn't even go so far as to say that the iPhone is missing 25% of what it would need to be completely congruent with business use.

Anyway...back to the OP.


The iPhone isn't a toy.

I don't think so. There's no syncable tasks at all. Nothing. That's a big bummer. No....background processing? Seriously? No word processing or decent text app, no spreadsheet. There's not even a decent IM app you can rely on once you hit the sleep button which probably goes back to nothing being allowed to run in the background. Mail is a pain in the ass comparatively speaking, there's no copy/paste, no....well, I could go on but it's obviously pointless. Beyond that, the SDK is unbelievably limited and so poorly documented that I've probably spent 20% of my work time just trying to figure out how things really work as opposed to how Apple says it works. If it works at all. Suffice to say that, as far as I'm concerned, it's a toy and will probably remain a toy for a few months. If Apple put as much thought into this as they did needless paranoia, it would probably be a dream. Instead, it's about as useful as an LG Rumor.

 

[jephersun]

i have a blackberry curve and the iphone 3g...

the curve is definitely my primary line...the iphone is more like my entertainment device...

just waiting for the bold to come out...-drools-

 

[seedster2]

I've used Blackberries and Iphones products as far as i'm concerned If I was using the phone for business I would not go with the Iphone for many reasons

1.Iphone will not forward messages (HUGE Problem) and the email compared to that of a blackberry is subpar.

2. 90% of big businesses operate a BES or BIS Server which the blackberry is in direct connection with. This will allow the blackberry to automatically update with any info the business needs to get out to there people.

3. We all know the Iphone does not have as good a speaker or call quality compared to that of a blackberry.

4. The Iphone and all other apple products have Many Many Many more bugs thats why when you go to the apple store and to the Genius Bar they have to take reservations because they are always backed up with stupid problems with their products.

5.Iphones battery life does not last anywhere near that of a blackberries.

6. The Iphone cannot copy and paste that is so annoying. The blackberry of course can.

Agreed.

2.0 is my biggest peave. It's a buggy software not ready for primetime much less business use. My previous unlocked 1.1.4 was much more stable.

Also, try explaining to the IT guys that they have to send devices back if there are battery issues...

The iphone is innovative, but i couldn't recommend it to a business user looking for a device that just works. BB has got all the enterprise bells and whistles and they are making their phone more "fun" to cater to the other market segments (aka pearl, thunder)

 

[dirkfr]

Domestic view....

I did not read all of the thread, but the statements quoted by your ATT reps are very country specific.

I cannot really tell, how much truth there is for the American market, ok, I saw quite a couple of Blackberries while over on a regular basis, at least in Germany, I personally know of no one using a blackberry.If I understood this thread correctly, Blackberries do not offer 3G at this time? If that is the case, the definite reason they are not popular here and disqualified as a business phone. One reason Palm's Treo series isn't seen too often. It's at this time mainly top of the line nokias used for business. (though recent politics of Nokia had their reputation suffer badly).

And now some technical drawbacks to the iPhone from a German standpoint. (Now please, this is not a general complaint about the phone.... I would NOT want to give mine up! Especially not for Nokia, after they closed down their tax subsidized plants....

Before the 3G model, and even now, the iPhone has one major disadvantage here: Our networks have turned to digital (GSM and UMTS /3G) long before the States. Thus, we have more or lesse become used to features, which are not widely spread in the States. 3G being one, services like MMS capabilities just one example of another. In these cases it's easy to tell the phone was originally made for the American market, where these features are less widely spread.

All other major phones have short cut menues built in to access these. With the iPhone they are either (at this time) plainly not available or have to be accessed by typing in awkward gsm codes manually. So in these instances, it is not very advanced, actually backwards a few years...

Softwarewise its the best smartphone I ever held in my hands and I do too use it for business.

And for proof that it is suited for business: Germany's largest, in fact Europe's largest publishing firm, Axel Springer, just signed a contract with Apple to switch the whole group's phone AND computer base to Apple products within the next too years. That makes them their second largest customer worldwide according to press reviews.

Dirk

 

[steveza]

I guess the main plus for BB at the moment is that their devices just work. If a company (like my current customer who have about 700 BB devices) were to send out 700 iPhones they would probably have a large number of unhappy users. It like anything else as a consumer you might be happy to pay money to beta test a product but in a corporate environment all you will do is create helpdesk calls.

However once a few of the partners/execs get a iPhone for Christmas then come January I think it could be a different ball game . I predict that around 10% of the BB users (at this company) will switch to an iPhone of their own accord within the next 6 - 12 months

 

[Sobe]

Everyone I know who has a BB has one because it was given to them free from their job.

I'm sure there are people who like em and buy them independently, but being given a phone and having someone else pay not only the cost of the phone but also the monthly bill is a fairly large inducement for customer loyalty.

 

[FJR]

services like MMS capabilities just one example of another. In these cases it's easy to tell the phone was originally made for the American market, where these features are less widely spread.

MMS is very common amongst US cellphones. That has nothing to do with US customers not being used to it, apple just viewed MMS as a dead technology that will be completely replaced by E-mail very soon on phones, and thus not really worth putting in the iPhone. That may have been a mistake. But if everybody had an iPhone, MMS would be totally useless, as email is a much better medium, and its free. SMS will likely always have a small niche, as a sort of a really low information text only messaging service. MMS will likely die in 5 years, as email will be as standard as text messaging is on all phones now. Or at least that is what apple seems to think.

 

[rkevwill]

Its the Keyboard! I type out maybe 10 to 15 emails a day, mostly replies. I currently have a Treo 755p. I will be switching to a blackberry curve, or possibly a bold. (Sprint has a great BB curve, with gps, so may just go with that instead of the ATT bold). I have a Touch, and love it, but could never do the longer emails and replies I do now. Perhaps its just a preference. So be it. I like coke better than Pepsi too. I would LOVE to have a 3g iphone, to replace the touch, but not to fond of having two phone plans, and two bills. The browser on the iphone and touch is superior to everything out there. So is the movie playing. That said, to me, the biz guy, the keyboard is my most important need at present.

Sooooooo, I will keep the touch, enjoy it, and move up to a blackberry because of the physical keys that I personally prefer.

 

[FJR]

Everyone I know who has a BB has one because it was given to them free from their job.

I'm sure there are people who like em and buy them independently, but being given a phone and having someone else pay not only the cost of the phone but also the monthly bill is a fairly large inducement for customer loyalty.

Yeah, I'd largely attribute the BB's continuing business dominance to things, in order of most importance to least importance:

1. inertia, status quo, etc. Its not particularly easy to change, businesses are comfortable with the BB, their employees know how to use them, etc

2. Many companies LIKE the fact that the BB isn't "fun".

3. E-mail is easier on a BB for business purposes. Many psoters have gone into more technical explanations.

4. BBs don't crash. This is mostly a 2.0 issue, sure, but 2.0 is supposed to be the point where iPhone started to compete for business. Instead it became slightly unreliable.

5. various other random things that BB has that aren't yet supported on the iPhone, cut and paste, no all in one syncing that includes tasks, etc

 

[marksman]

More than any real difference it is likely that sales rep was getting a bigger commission for Blackberrys at that point. Perhaps even a sales competition from AT&T and/or RIM where they get a nice spiff for every Blackberry sold.

Salespeople are slimy and rarely looking out for your best interests. If it nets him another $30 to sell someone a blackberry over an iphone, the truth is not an issue.

 

[danny_w]

I've used Blackberries and Iphones products as far as i'm concerned If I was using the phone for business I would not go with the Iphone for many reasons

1.Iphone will not forward messages (HUGE Problem) and the email compared to that of a blackberry is subpar.

Do you mean email messages or SMS messages? Email forwards just fine for me, and I never use SMS.

 

[Moi un Mouton]

I'm a personal user, not a business user, and the iPhone is my current favourite toy!!!! I just love it to bits.

However, two of my best friends run businesses. They bought iPhones for their business use and have now sent them back, because of lack of functions that businesses need. They are personally really sorry to have to do it, since they like playing with cool technology the same as I do - but when it comes to their livelihoods, common sense won out and they chose "the right tool for the job".

The AT&T rep got it about right.

 

[redman042]

The AT&T rep got it about right.

Well yes and no. I think what all the posts in this thread have proved is that the iPhone is very suitable for some folks for business use, but not for others. It all depends on what you need. The Blackberry is a VERY capable business device, but I've spent time with it and it is complex and has a higher learning curve. In any case, the AT&T rep was really exaggerating by calling the iPhone a toy. It's certainly more than that, even if it's not good enough for business for many people.

From a perception standpoint, it is true that the Blackberry is viewed right now as a professional tool and the iPhone an entertainment device. I'm sure when I go to a business meeting and set my iPhone on the table, someone will raise an eyebrow. If I set a Curve or a Bold on the table, everyone would be impressed. I have at least one coworker who won't use an iPhone for that reason alone. He wants to use what his clients have. Understandable... perception does matter in business. But I will stick with what works for me and in the long run the productivity I gain from it will speak for itself.

 

[branjosef]

First off, I have yet to meet someone who works at an AT&T store who doesn't come off like a used up frat boy. None of them know what they are talking about and I trust their recommendations as much as I trust a retarded monkey driving a Yugo. I don't know if its because AT&T can't afford to hire quality people or simply the new stock of high school and college graduates are just not prepared enough to enter the job market. The iphone is just fine and I could never imagine going back to a Blackberry

 

[wheezy]

+1 I'm in the same boat. My business has a BES server that seamlessly integrates our MSX 2007 (mail, calendar, contacts and tasks) server with our BB devices. Our BB devices also support an OCS (Office Communicator Server) client for chat and presence. Until the iPhone can provide these services, along with improved centralized management, it will have a hard time significantly penetrating the business market.

Don't get me wrong, I would much rather carry around an iPhone for work than my current BB, but the iPhone still has a few hurdles to overcome. Apple will probably need to build a more physically robust iPhone as business users are extremely hard on their mobile devices (they didn't pay for them so they don't really care). If Apple is serious about penetrating the business market with the iPhone we should have some good things to look forward to with the iPhone.

BlackBerry has been playing in this field for years, let's give the iPhone some time to catch up and see what happens.

Thank you for the good answer! The list a few posts up was okay, except #3 is just BS and up to the end user. NOTE: Never start a sentence with 'We all know...' unless you're referring to the greatest blunders such as starting a land war in asia or 2nd (and only slightly less well known) never get in a battle of wits with a Sicilian, when death is on the line!

However, as noted by someone else, let's give Apple and developers more than 1 year to develop competing products to those options that flat out aren't out there for the iPhone.

 

[gkarris]

Thank you for the good answer! The list a few posts up was okay, except #3 is just BS and up to the end user. NOTE: Never start a sentence with 'We all know...' unless you're referring to the greatest blunders such as starting a land war in asia or 2nd (and only slightly less well known) never get in a battle of wits with a Sicilian, when death is on the line!

However, as noted by someone else, let's give Apple and developers more than 1 year to develop competing products to those options that flat out aren't out there for the iPhone.

We all know that the BB and the iPhone are for different audiences and purposes...

 

[maokh]

We all know it was just a guy trying to make the buyer confident in his purchase decision. nothing more. nothing less.

 

[iSurfHi]

Different competitors are all the same

Yeah I used work for Verizon Wireless and we are all trained to sell phones and true they have a bad mouth just to sell something. I'm sure glad I got out of that lol. Keep in mind all wireless are all the same.
I sure am smitten to my iPhone 3g
Mahalo~

 

[DiamondMac]

Call it whatever people want

It is a phone that gets a LOT of stuff done for me

It plays me music in the car and at work
It checks my email wherever I am
It searches the internet when I need to know something or at a meeting
It plays YouTube videos
It has games I can play
It can check .pdf or .doc files i need to view

That is a damn near important phone for me during a regular week

 

[afireintonto]

o yea well, um ...... um.....
can a BB turn the internet sideways?
pwn!

 

[branjosef]

We all know that the BB and the iPhone are for different audiences and purposes...

Ah yes... BB is for people who want a phone that looks technical and requires alot of tasks to do something simple. Its great for people who still own a betamax because its better video and have 14 different electronic gadgets in their car all plugged into the cigarette lighter. They also shop at radio shack. The iphone on the other hand is for smart people who have MOVED ON.

 

[paj]

Ah yes... BB is for people who want a phone that looks technical and requires alot of tasks to do something simple.

Such as?