AT&T Responds to Net Neutrality Concerns Regarding FaceTime Usage Policy

[edk99]

I think the bitch is that there is no technical reason why Facetime over 3G is different from Skype over 3G. (For purposes of this discussion)

ATT's choice to treat that data differently violates the principal of neutrality, if not the letter of the regulations promulgated by the FCC.

I don't really use Facetime, however, allowing ATT to discriminate against this feature sets a precedent that may affect a feature I *do* want to use in the future. (In fact, these nonsense rules have affected me as I desired to have the hot spot feature available and would have paid $20 in addition to my plan to have it but it cannot be provisioned together with unlimited data - so I took this business to Verizon)

What if ATT prohibited cloud downloads from Apple via 3G for grandfathered unlimited users? Their interpretation of neutrality would make this a legitimate exercise of their discretion. How about email? How about Safari? VVM? iMessage? Those are all integrated applications as well. At what point does it become unacceptable?

(I have to admit I am surprised they haven't tried to monetize iMessage yet - it has the potential to significantly erode text profits)

If all those things happened they would have any customers.

Reading the law it seems pretty straight forward that any preinstalled app on a phone the carrier has the option to limit the usage.

So there is a big difference between Skype and Facetime. One is downloaded and one is preinstalled

 

[jbellanca]

I wrote in the other thread and ATT's statement just solidified it further that they have no desire to proliferate Apple's Facetime protocol. This hurts Apple more than ATT in the long run since Skype and Tango (and others) all work on 3G and are platform agnostic.

Apple's would be smart to make FT a downloadable app. They'd also be smart by opening up the platform so app developers can incorporate facetime for various OSes.

Although it's an non-Apple-ish kind of thing to do, they could have a separate FaceTime 3G app to download.

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Reading the law it seems pretty straight forward that any preinstalled app on a phone the carrier has the option to limit the usage.

So there is a big difference between Skype and Facetime. One is downloaded and one is preinstalled

The FCC just need to change their ruling to not exempt pre-installed apps.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Although it's an non-Apple-ish kind of thing to do, they could have a separate FaceTime 3G app to download.

The FCC just need to change their ruling to not exempt pre-installed apps.

Exactly, either option will work. I hope this also has further implications for tethering solutions. Why aren't those Apps being allowed in the iOS store? If Apple started to allow them, we would have the same circumstances as with FaceTime. Both the Personal Hotspot and FaceTime should be made separate apps in the wait for the FCC to fix this problem.

 

[Westyfield2]

Data is data. Whether it's being used by email, an app, or facetime 1MB is 1MB out of your paid for allowance.

 

[jrawl004]

Posted by nziemer on CNET News...

"What AT&T is also forgetting is that the requirements by the FCC for equal accessibility especially with the Telecommunications Act of 1996, and the Telecommunications Relay Services such as Video Relay Service provides Deaf and Hard of Hearing callers with the accessibility to make and receiving calls that rely on using sign language interpreters via video.

Since hearing callers often times have unlimited voice plans, it also means that unlimited data plans, that use video, email, and text, should also be unlimited so that there is equality for both people with and without disabilities.

AT&T also has a relay service as well. So it would be only prudent that they would offer unlimited data plans so that Deaf and Hard of Hearing callers can have access 27/7/365 just like hearing callers."

 

[b_scott]

Um... overages?

Two things could happen:
a) parents get bill shock, stop the teenagers. Problem solved. Or
b) overages abound, AT$T get more $$$ to build better towers. Or just plain more $$$, the pigs.

This policy isn't necessary; it doesn't make sense.

he's talking about truly unlimited for one price - the grandfathered ones, like myself.

 

[GQB]

Let me get this straight, you can't control what your children do so we all have to deal with ridiculous rate hikes to use something we already pay for? Definitely using some quality logic there.

That wasn't the statement... it was merely addressing the ignorance of people without kids pontificating about parenting skills.

 

[b_scott]

s. Derek turner was right when he fired back at at&t's response:

"at&t is inventing words that are not in the fcc's rules in a weak attempt to justify its blocking of facetime. The fcc's rules are crystal clear: At&t is not permitted to block voice or video telephony applications that compete with its own services. There is simply nothing in the rules that distinguishes 'preloaded' applications from 'downloaded' applications."

:d

 

[jrawl004]

someone needs to junk punch ATT....

 

[b_scott]

Data is data. Whether it's being used by email, an app, or facetime 1MB is 1MB out of your paid for allowance.

agreed. though with unlimited MB/GB/TB don't matter. I still think it's crap though.

 

[TsMkLg068426]

And Consolidated Trucking sucks for handing over the ability to forbid 18-wheelers on residential dirt roads to the State Highway Commission.

Same logic.

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hahahahahahahahahahaha

Written by a person without teenagers.
Simple case-in-point...
School has put all study, homework materials and inter-student communications on-line, and half of homework assignments now include making videos of the project. That's the reality of school today.
Cutting off internet access guarantees lower grades.
Try putting that into your simplistic solutions.

Why did you have kids at age of twelve than? Maybe you could be a better parent than a lazy one and stop punishing everyone for failing in life.

 

[b_scott]

"half of homework assignments now include making videos of the project."

Really? I've never heard of that, I'll have to ask my sister and best friend who are both teachers.

 

[doelcm82]

Can't we petition Apple to make the FaceTime app available in the app store? I'd sign it!

No point.

I wouldn't sign it, because FaceTime is integrated into the phone app and the address book, so it wouldn't be easy or clean.

If they did it, it wouldn't be part of iOS 6. They'd have to wait until iOS 7 or later. By that time, this scandal will have passed, and hardly anyone would care. Everyone would have settled into the new data plans, or found a jailbreak or third-party app solution, or switched providers.

Everyone will be up in arms about some new way some cool new technology is UNFAIR! What do you MEAN you won't support holography on the iPhone 4S?

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Data is data. Whether it's being used by email, an app, or facetime 1MB is 1MB out of your paid for allowance.

So it doesn't matter how fast or consistent it is? FaceTime over EDGE?

 

[d0vr]

Back when it was first released, it gave better picture quality *and* lower bandwidth consumption that Skype, and other video conferencing apps. I believe Skype has updated the video codecs it uses so that this advantage is decreased significantly, but I'm not positive.

its built into the OS and you can just hit the facetime button on a contact.

I have no idea. For me - none.

I thought as much. I don't understand why we can't just create a standard video to video protocol and get on with it. Don't vendors get that by trying to lock us in with propriety standards, that few people end up using these features? I'd love to use video chat more often, but I'm not going to when I have to worry about whether someone is online or not/have an iPhone or not and about extra charges. Data is data for Pete's sake.

 

[Dominicanyor]

Fixed that for you

When I tried it, i thought it was pretty slow and since than the reviews are read weren't the greatest when it came to their speed.

I agree with you it is slow.

 

[thetank540]

"The FCC's net neutrality rules do not regulate the availability to customers of applications that are preloaded on phones."

No, but the rules of not being a complete douchenozzle do, you a$$hat charlatans.

 

[WordMasterRice]

That wasn't the statement... it was merely addressing the ignorance of people without kids pontificating about parenting skills.

Fair enough.

 

[416049]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Written by a person without teenagers.
Simple case-in-point...
School has put all study, homework materials and inter-student communications on-line, and half of homework assignments now include making videos of the project. That's the reality of school today.
Cutting off internet access guarantees lower grades.
Try putting that into your simplistic solutions.

For the average teen as long as there is enough call minutes and unlimited texts most can survive on the move, and have wifi and school and home.

 

[Sankersizzle]

Props to AT&T. No one should be using heaving video streaming on wireless connections anyway. Just use your home internet. Problem solved.

I bet this dude still thinks we should just use horses instead of cars, because anyone who wants to move such a great distance should just use the train.

 

[Compile 'em all]

In most countries outside of the US this usually is not a problem. Here in Asia most telecom providers do not nickel and dime you the way AT&T does.

I 100% agree that not all carriers nickel and dime like ATT (the US is generally way behind the rest of the world when it comes to teleco) but also not everyone gives all the options to their customers for free. Telecos in general are living in the past, can't innovate, and trying to extort money out of their customers with what they already have.

 

[fsck-y dingo]

People are REALLY missing the point here.

FaceTime over 3G would be spotty at best on an iPhone 4. It may be marginally better on a 4S with "4G". However to truly get reliable FaceTime quality, you need LTE. And AT&T doesn't have LTE in enough markets.

I've been using FaceTime over 3G since my iPhone 4 was first jailbroken. The quality is very good and full, five bar, reception is not necessary.

 

[Squid7085]

Instead of AT&T actually responding to this, it is basically AT&T saying, "All the millions we have spent to make sure the Law's go our way worked, we aren't breaking the law, so you can suck it." The only way to change their mind is to make the decision hurt them or push the government to do something. While people may say the government has no place in this, I respectfully disagree. Unlike a cable company that owns all the lines, Wireless providers lease spectrum from the government, that means the FCC has the right to regulate that spectrum.

 

[profets]

And Consolidated Trucking sucks for handing over the ability to forbid 18-wheelers on residential dirt roads to the State Highway Commission.

Same logic.

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Nope. It's Apple's phone. Apple's software.

Maybe Apple should give carriers control over all the features in iOS?

 

[irDigital0l]

Translation...

AT&T "thanks for choosing us, now go eff yourself"

 

[joelisfar]

Chances are, only a small portion of users would actually get around to downloading facetime; the rest either won't be bothered or aren't even aware it exists.

So you are just turning facetime into a poor skype alternative (just like imessage is a crappier whatsapp clone).

Well to continue the silliness, how about Apple calls the app "FaceTime for AT&T"

Keep FaceTime as a built-in feature but then allow users to download it.