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It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the real issue.

Whether Jobs was honest, or whether AT&T is fair or just or greedy . . . . none of these are relevant to the real point.

The bottom line is: The iPhone costs just over $2,000 to own for two years. That is the minimum cost.

If that feels good to you, go for it.
 
The updates for the iPhone will remain free because it is still on a monthly plan. iPod touch will remain to have to pay because they are on no service plan. I think that's how it will work, although you bring up a good point. Anyone care to back me up or shoot me down? :)

Ah, but Apple will no longer recognize nor receive any of the revenue from AT&T so in reality, they don't care that it's on a monthly plan through your cell provider. To them, it was a one time purchase and they would have to recognize all of that revenue immediately rather than on a monthly basis.

From my perspective, it would be the same as if you purchased a service for your iPod Touch later on (maybe you pay per month for some software). Apple wouldn't care, as they don't see any of the revenue.
 
Ah, but Apple will no longer recognize nor receive any of the revenue from AT&T so in reality, they don't care that it's on a monthly plan through your cell provider. To them, it was a one time purchase and they would have to recognize all of that revenue immediately rather than on a monthly basis.

From my perspective, it would be the same as if you purchased a service for your iPod Touch later on (maybe you pay per month for some software). Apple wouldn't care, as they don't see any of the revenue.

Yes. And i recognized that point in your original statement. Seeing as the 2.0 will remain free for iPhone users this time around, you could be making a good point, and than the end of June release date might bring forth to the light that it will already come on the new iPhone and the next major update will be a payed for update. I don't have a hard time seeing Apple actually doing this, but I think enough people would just not update and apple would recognize the problem. Then again they would have to do that with the iPod touch too. I am not sure, we will find out soon enough though. Although I can't see there being another major update, what more can they do that isn't hardware related? Apps? Sure they could but that would just go through the App store as a payed for app, which wouldn't be a significant or surprising matter. We already know that the iPod touch doesn't have to pay for smaller updates, so neither would the iPhone, so I don't see there being a problem? Good point, we will find out in the next coming year of non revenue sharing between AT&T. Also keep in mind that AT&T still has to give Apple all the money from the phones, its not $200 for them, just us, they will have to give the remaining money to Apple. Perhaps why the revenue sharing is gone in the first place?
 
It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the real issue.

Whether Jobs was honest, or whether AT&T is fair or just or greedy . . . . none of these are relevant to the real point.

The bottom line is: The iPhone costs just over $2,000 to own for two years. That is the minimum cost.

If that feels good to you, go for it.

This is true, but your crap razr costs $1200 over two years (based on $50/month and FREE razr)

BTW-No offense if you have a crap razr, just making a point :)
 
Bogus?

okay! So If You Have A Current Iphone 2g And U Upgrade To An Iphone 3g U Can Keep Your Current $20 Rate!!!! The $30 Rate Will Only Be For New Iphone Users...

Sorry To Everyone I Told Different!

So this has not been backed up anywhere that I've seen. For an AT&T employee, you sure seem to be out on a limb here
 
So this has not been backed up anywhere that I've seen. For an AT&T employee, you sure seem to be out on a limb here

not alot has been backed up at all so far! everyone will see in the next few weeks, hopefully some pamphlets come along, i will post for every when they arrive.
 
not alot has been backed up at all so far! everyone will see in the next few weeks, hopefully some pamphlets come along, i will post for every when they arrive.

If nothing has been backed up so far, where do you get your knowledge from?
 
You said that "considering that $1400 last year is $1530 today"
My mistake, that's supposed to be 1440.

$100 in 2006 is $105.40 in 2007--an increase of over 5%. The acceleration in pricing curves is projected higher this year, to about 8% based on the CPI (due to oil and food prices rising faster than the base inflation rate) according to BLS published stats. You are misunderstanding the effect on pricing to suggest a 3% number.
And really, since when do mobile phone rates increase annually with inflation? I know that mine never has...
They don't, but if you're calculating affordability and including the service costs, you must also take into account the purchasing power over time, whether it's one year or one month.

Agreeing to pay $2000 in 2000 isn't the same as agreeing to pay someone $2200 in 2005. In fact, in terms of "affordability", the higher amount is more affordable. The asinine inclusion of additional fees (that you'd be paying anyway) is not directly comparable. If you're going to include service costs spanning two years in a bizarre convolution for the sole purpose of complaining, you should complain about the weak dollar more than anything else.

But doing that would mean admitting that paying the total amount this year is actually, at its most generous, equal to paying last year's total amount. That would take all the bite out of the 'affordability' argument.
And we're not seeing any other price increases from AT&T in its other plans or from other vendors, which should be the case if this is in any way related to inflation. Over time tech prices generally go DOWN.
For products, not for services, and only to maturity, where prices begin increasing again. What happened to the $20 plans? You'll see today's cheapest plan is $39.99. Same with cable bills--steadily increasing.

Price plans are adjusted on a squaring curve. When service providers raise rates, they do so to front-load profits ahead of the inflation curve, so that as their expenses rise, the area behind the curve is equal to that ahead of the curve. When costs exceed that front-loading reserve, that's when you see rates increase. In the case of new products, the rate of price decline is limited by inflationary pressures. As long as real costs decrease faster than inflation, prices will fall. The intersection is where a product reaches market maturity.

My cellular bill in 1997 was one-third of what it is today. Prices going down, indeed.
He said that they were making the phone more affordable, which it isn't.
$399 to $199. It is. No representation of any kind was made about the service plan.
But I also don't think we need to go out of our way to justify higher service plan prices due to inflation.
No one is doing so. It's a simple illustration of selective variables, the same way you're using a service cost increase to say the phone is more expensive when it clearly is not.

The phone is not the TCO, and no one has ever claimed it was. The cost complained about was the high price tag on the phone, and it was addressed with the new price.
 
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

-John Godfrey Saxe
 
$399 to $199. It is. No representation of any kind was made about the service plan...

Umm, yes there was. It was an asterix after "Twice as fast. Half the price." And that asterix led to this "fine point" on the slides and on Apple's web site http://www.apple.com/iphone :

"* Based on 3G and EDGE testing. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Based on iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) purchases. Requires new 2-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately."

No one is doing so. It's a simple illustration of selective variables, the same way you're using a service cost increase to say the phone is more expensive when it clearly is not.

The phone is not the TCO, and no one has ever claimed it was. The cost complained about was the high price tag on the phone, and it was addressed with the new price.

Apple indeed noted the total cost, it's just a matter of font size. It's "half the price", i.e. $200 less, only if you pay $240 more. Since you still can't take an iPhone 3G out of the AT&T or Apple store without incurring a debt of $2000+, it's playing games with money... and insulting our intelligence. Like those car ads "$99 down!"...but $399/month in small print.

This backlash has worked before... Apple gave credits after their early price drop. And it appears that AT&T is already feeling the heat and may include 200 SMS texts after all. But if they do give in, it won't be because of the Apple defenders who said "don't complain"... it will be because of those of us who said 'Think Different'.
 
It seems to me that a lot of people are missing the real issue.

Whether Jobs was honest, or whether AT&T is fair or just or greedy . . . . none of these are relevant to the real point.

The bottom line is: The iPhone costs just over $2,000 to own for two years. That is the minimum cost.

If that feels good to you, go for it.

Which is only $40 more than the previous iPhone and nobody had a issue before.
Well I'm waiting till release date as the more I think about it the more it's worth it.
I live in a very nicely 3G covered area and I use internet a lot every day.
I just hope that the switch to plastic doesn't have a negative impact on durability and looks (especially scratched surfaces)
 
best post yet

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

-John Godfrey Saxe

Nice. put a smile on my face.

G-Goose
 
That's precisely the opposite of what the esteemed Mr. Jobs said in his keynote.

I don't care about Mr. Jobs. I calculate my own finances.
If I had no trouble affording 1st gen then this extra $10 is worth nothing compared to the benefits of 3G and GPS that I will get.

Problem is everybody wants the iPhone... Nobody ever cries about not having 3G in his area and dying to buy a Blackberry.
I understand that everybody wants one but like in life you can't get everything and it's up to you which way will you go.

Problem is that in the end it's only $40 difference compared to V1 and people act like it's a million $$ or something.

I'm not gonna go if they lied or not but in my opinion for better, unlimited 3G $10 is a totally cheap increase.
 
I don't care about Mr. Jobs. I calculate my own finances.
If I had no trouble affording 1st gen then this extra $10 is worth nothing compared to the benefits of 3G and GPS that I will get.

Problem is everybody wants the iPhone... Nobody ever cries about not having 3G in his area and dying to buy a Blackberry.
I understand that everybody wants one but like in life you can't get everything and it's up to you which way will you go.

Problem is that in the end it's only $40 difference compared to V1 and people act like it's a million $$ or something.

I'm not gonna go if they lied or not but in my opinion for better, unlimited 3G $10 is a totally cheap increase.



Agree, it really did piss me off at 1st but fu*k it I got a good job. I can do one free lance job and thats the yearly bill covered. Plus I was in the market for a GPS and a new iPOD so if anything I just saved.
 
Umm, yes there was. It was an asterix after "Twice as fast. Half the price." And that asterix led to this "fine point" on the slides and on Apple's web site http://www.apple.com/iphone :

"* Based on 3G and EDGE testing. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Based on iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) purchases. Requires new 2-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately."
You realize that proves the point, don't you, that they specifically were not referring to total cost. "Sold separately" is a very significant term.
This backlash has worked before... Apple gave credits after their early price drop.
And that was purely as a goodwill gesture out of absolutely no obligation.
But if they do give in, it won't be because of the Apple defenders who said "don't complain"... it will be because of those of us who said 'Think Different'.
There's nothing wrong with complaining. It's the whining and melodramatics that are absurd. Acting like children is not the way to get what you want in life. Even if it works, you lose respect and integrity. It's not "thinking different", it's just throwing a tantrum.

Of course making a scene usually works, but is that the way you'd teach your children to get what they want? It seems so, because the world has been filling with greedy brats.
 
Assuming AT&T makes their corporate discounts available on the new iPhone plans, you could end up about the same as you are right now on costs:

Voice Plan - $40
Data Plan - $30
SMS Plan - $5
Total - $75/month
Corporate Discount (20%, if you have a good one, but it makes the math easy) - $15

Final total before taxes = $60. Same as today. Of course, not everyone has access to a FAN discount.....

Still, the money is the same, although Apple isn't in the revenue stream....

You could end up better on some of the more expensive plans.
 
My cellular bill in 1997 was one-third of what it is today. Prices going down, indeed.

I think that the plan you probably had in 1997 had about 60 minutes a month and was on analog with a phone that had a terrible battery and was a brick. Or alternately, very expensive for the Motorola StarTAC. Digital was just coming online then and the phone companies were charging at least an extra $10/month for digital.

Not that I think cell phone service, cable, or high-speed internet are a steal by any measure.
 
...There's nothing wrong with complaining. It's the whining and melodramatics that are absurd. Acting like children is not the way to get what you want in life. Even if it works, you lose respect and integrity. It's not "thinking different", it's just throwing a tantrum.

Of course making a scene usually works, but is that the way you'd teach your children to get what they want? It seems so, because the world has been filling with greedy brats.

Unfortunately, I have met kids whose parents do allow them to do that. It is a shame really.
 
Guy at several local at&t stores says 30 bucks. If you look on at&t's website is says 30 bucks for 3G data on all phones, who knows if this will stay true on july 11, 08:)
 
There's nothing wrong with complaining. It's the whining and melodramatics that are absurd. Acting like children is not the way to get what you want in life. Even if it works, you lose respect and integrity. It's not "thinking different", it's just throwing a tantrum.

Of course making a scene usually works, but is that the way you'd teach your children to get what they want? It seems so, because the world has been filling with greedy brats.


No tantrums here. Just pointing out that the "half the cost" comes with an asterix, that makes it more expensive before you even leave the store.

Indeed, the only thing "melodramatic" is people saying that posting the true cost of ownership out on a web site amounts to a tantrum and leads to a world of greedy brats.
 
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