ATI Crossfire or Nvidia SLI support

[TBi]

Not in the least, right now. There has to be application-level support as well as OS-level support in order to fully take advantage of SLI. Not quite as sure about Crossfire.

Either way, the Pro apps will need to support SLI. Not just the operating system.

And remember: as soon as you enable SLI, you lose all but 1 monitor. There is no multi-monitor support for SLI from nVidia.

jas

Application level support? Where are you getting that from? SLI is driver enabled and driven. The 'application' just sees a faster graphics card, it doesn't need to know anything about what the graphics card is because it only talks to the driver and the driver can lie all it wants.

Well it seems SLI is single monitor only which does kind of suck.

As for 1 monitor, i can't verify this but i'm sure it isn't true. You lose the ability to run a monitor from the second card but both outputs on the main card should still work.

 

[diamond.g]

Application level support? Where are you getting that from? SLI is driver enabled and driven. The 'application' just sees a faster graphics card, it doesn't need to know anything about what the graphics card is because it only talks to the driver and the driver can lie all it wants.

Well it seems SLI is single monitor only which does kind of suck.

As for 1 monitor, i can't verify this but i'm sure it isn't true. You lose the ability to run a monitor from the second card but both outputs on the main card should still work.

AFAIK the application sees 2 graphics cards because that is what Windows presents. The app needs to be SLI aware. Otherwise every program would "just work" with SLI and that isn't true.

 

[jasonvp]

Application level support? Where are you getting that from? SLI is driver enabled and driven. The 'application' just sees a faster graphics card, it doesn't need to know anything about what the graphics card is because it only talks to the driver and the driver can lie all it wants.

Well it seems SLI is single monitor only which does kind of suck.

As for 1 monitor, i can't verify this but i'm sure it isn't true. You lose the ability to run a monitor from the second card but both outputs on the main card should still work.

OK, I have DIRECT SLI experience, and a lot of it. I use it quite heavily on my Windows gaming machine at home.

1. SLI is OS-level AND application-level supported. If the application (in this case, the game) isn't aware of more than 1 card, it won't be used. Period. The OS doesn't "lie" to the application and tell it, "Trust me.. there's only one card. Really." That's not the way SLI works. The game MUST BE written to support SLI or the 2nd card just won't be used.

2. When SLI is enabled, ALL OUTPUT goes to monitor 1. No ifs, no ands, no buts. Multi-monitor support IS NOT THERE. I've tried it many times, in many different monitor configurations. nVidia has said it's not there, and it's not there. The idea is: take all of the processing from the two cards and pump it through one monitor.

jas

 

[kabunaru]

Well it seems SLI is single monitor only which does kind of suck.

Yeah, Crossfire is better than SLI generally.

 

[Fuzzbear]

2. When SLI is enabled, ALL OUTPUT goes to monitor 1. No ifs, no ands, no buts. Multi-monitor support IS NOT THERE. I've tried it many times, in many different monitor configurations. nVidia has said it's not there, and it's not there. The idea is: take all of the processing from the two cards and pump it through one monitor.

jas

yeah actually the way around that is to put in a 3rd Non Nvidia video card. That way the Nvidia Drivers don't shut it down on you when you enable SLI. You will still only be able to use one Monitor in your game... but when your not gaming both monitors will be active as long as one in plugged into the non Nvidia card.

 

[m1stake]

I couldn't vouch for the 1000 or 2000 series, but I know that the 3000 series from ATI supports dual monitors while using multiple graphics cards.

The 3870 x2 was doing it with no issues in a review, and I hear the entire line can do it.

 

[jasonvp]

yeah actually the way around that is to put in a 3rd Non Nvidia video card. That way the Nvidia Drivers don't shut it down on you when you enable SLI. You will still only be able to use one Monitor in your game... but when your not gaming both monitors will be active as long as one in plugged into the non Nvidia card.

That's correct. The other solution is to keep all the monitors attached, as usual. When it's time to game, "detach" all other monitors (assuming Windows), and then enable SLI. When gaming is over, disable SLI, and then "re-attach" the other monitors.

That's what I was doing when I was running multiple monitors on my Windows box.

jas

 

[jasonvp]

The 3870 x2 was doing it with no issues in a review, and I hear the entire line can do it.

But is this with Crossfire enabled?

jas

 

[Tallest Skil]

Well it seems SLI is single monitor only which does kind of suck.

Thus my desire to have two 8800 GT, NOT SLI them, and plug one of my monitors into each, so as to have a pseudo-SLI over a 3840x1200 screen. Seems like the better option for users who want the (gaming?) power of multiple cards with the screen size to do what they desire.

Heh. Can you imagine this idea being put into practice by flight simulation enthusiasts?! They get a full-size PC tower-you know, the ones with 12 PCI slots-and run a cheapish graphics card off of each to get their full surround window feel...

Now imagine that with 12 8800 GTs. Can you say 3,000 watt power supply?

Edit: I can't get the stupid quote quotingness to work right, but you get the picture...

 

[Akula971]

Oh really?

NO. stay off apple if you are a gamer.

You must mean a "serious" gamer? Yes? No? I've read that some folks have been known to boot into windows and play games like Bioshock, Crysis, Halflife 2 DoD, etc on Imac's and MacPro's. Hell I've even seen video's on you tube. So I guess you can do it.
I'm watching these threads with great interest you see as I'm in the position of having moved over to OSX from XP/Vista by virtue of a MacMini, which you may appreciate is not really suitable to play anything other than Rise of Nations and Solitaire. I need a more powerful Mac. My windows box (Northwood P4, AGP 1800XT card) is now long in the tooth. So I'm faced with either buying a MacPro to do just "Everything" or getting an Imac AND a new windows box for games. Oooh the confusion, the conflict, the cash? My plan is a MacPro with a 8800GT or I've read that you put some other "windows" graphics cards in that will only be seen in bootcamp? and stick with the stock 2600 card for OSX.

What do you folks think? Anybody have direct experience?

 

[Fuzzbear]

You must mean a "serious" gamer? Yes? No? I've read that some folks have been known to boot into windows and play games like Bioshock, Crysis, Halflife 2 DoD, etc on Imac's and MacPro's. Hell I've even seen video's on you tube. So I guess you can do it.
I'm watching these threads with great interest you see as I'm in the position of having moved over to OSX from XP/Vista by virtue of a MacMini, which you may appreciate is not really suitable to play anything other than Rise of Nations and Solitaire. I need a more powerful Mac. My windows box (Northwood P4, AGP 1800XT card) is now long in the tooth. So I'm faced with either buying a MacPro to do just "Everything" or getting an Imac AND a new windows box for games. Oooh the confusion, the conflict, the cash? My plan is a MacPro with a 8800GT or I've read that you put some other "windows" graphics cards in that will only be seen in bootcamp? and stick with the stock 2600 card for OSX.

What do you folks think? Anybody have direct experience?

Im in a slightly better boat. Im going to be getting a Macbook Pro for work, and just so I can get used to using OSX. Im keeping my main windows PC though for gaming...luckily its a custom DIY machine so It shouldn't be TOO difficult to throw some money into it now and again to keep it up to date.

Can you update your PC at all so its not so "Long In The tooth?" or is it a retail box?

 

[Umbongo]

He'll need a flexible bridge, likely. Those that have got this working on the first generation of Mac Pros used a flexible bridge, I believe.

As well, wouldn't pro apps like Maya and Cinema 4 and Final Cut Pro's Color benefit from SLI. I mean we always look at the games part, which interests me, but what's good for games is often good for the pro apps, right? So then it would be of interest to Apple to support SLI or Crossfire.

Maya benefits, by about 30-35% from the various benchmarks I've seen. However even the cheapest quadro fx cards would offer more performance than SLI'd 8800GTs and would surely be a much better way for Apple to go on an official platform.

 

[diamond.g]

Maya benefits, by about 30-35% from the various benchmarks I've seen. However even the cheapest quadro fx cards would offer more performance than SLI'd 8800GTs and would surely be a much better way for Apple to go on an official platform.

Eh, the cheaper quadros are based on different (read: slower) cores. The G92 would be faster. Only the G80 would have the ability to match it in performance.

 

[Umbongo]

Eh, the cheaper quadros are based on different (read: slower) cores. The G92 would be faster. Only the G80 would have the ability to match it in performance.

No, the Quadro drivers are far superior, which is where the performance comes from.

 

[Fuzzbear]

as a mac newbie, but a very experienced PC DIY'er is there some physical hardware different on the OSX branded ATI/Nvidia Cards? Or is it just flashed with a different eprom?

anyone?

 

[TBi]

Eh, the cheaper quadros are based on different (read: slower) cores. The G92 would be faster. Only the G80 would have the ability to match it in performance.

The quadro uses the same chipset as the equivalent geforce. The old models based on the G80 and the newer ones will probably be based on the 8800GTS chipset.

No, the Quadro drivers are far superior, which is where the performance comes from.

The quadro drivers just unlock GPU functionality that is hidden on the standard geforce. So it can do some things faster in hardware. However quadro drivers are usually slower than geforce drivers in games because they are not optimised for them.

as a mac newbie, but a very experienced PC DIY'er is there some physical hardware different on the OSX branded ATI/Nvidia Cards? Or is it just flashed with a different eprom?

anyone?

Just a different eeprom, although on some cards the eeprom is a different size.

 

[Fuzzbear]

Just a different eeprom, although on some cards the eeprom is a different size.

So has any enterprising little hackers come up with a way to flash a standard retail card to work in apple hardware?

 

[TBi]

So has any enterprising little hackers come up with a way to flash a standard retail card to work in apple hardware?

I've seen it done on older cards, it should be possible on newer ones too. However not many people take the risk because a dead card is worthless.

 

[Fuzzbear]

I've seen it done on older cards, it should be possible on newer ones too. However not many people take the risk because a dead card is worthless.

but a dead retail card can be returned to the store

 

[TBi]

but a dead retail card can be returned to the store

Only if they don't bother to look at it to see the easily visible damage you've done.

EDIT: Just so that makes more sense, the way i've seen it done is someone removes the smaller retail EEPROM and solders on a bigger EEPROM which can then be flashed with apple's firmware. This does visible damage to the card.

Also i don't agree with this stance. It drives prices up for everyone, you break it you bought it.

It's ok if the card dies from a simple bios transplant as it shouldn't

 

[Fuzzbear]

Only if they don't bother to look at it to see the easily visible damage you've done.

EDIT: Just so that makes more sense, the way i've seen it done is someone removes the smaller retail EEPROM and solders on a bigger EEPROM which can then be flashed with apple's firmware. This does visible damage to the card.

Also i don't agree with this stance. It drives prices up for everyone, you break it you bought it.

It's ok if the card dies from a simple bios transplant as it shouldn't

oh you made it sound like they were just reflashing the existing eprom, not removing it and replacing it.

 

[TBi]

oh you made it sound like they were just reflashing the existing eprom, not removing it and replacing it.

Some are that easy but mostof the time it isn't. I should have made that clear in my first post.

 

[Mercuric Oxide]

The 8800GT's shipping with the new Mac Pro have SLI connectors...

I don't know if the mobo supports it though for Windows

 

[TBi]

The 8800GT's shipping with the new Mac Pro have SLI connectors...

I don't know if the mobo supports it though for Windows

You don't need motherboard support, you need driver support. All SLI/Crossfire is done in software (except for the SLI/Xfire bridges but they are on the graphics cards).

 

[diamond.g]

The quadro uses the same chipset as the equivalent geforce. The old models based on the G80 and the newer ones will probably be based on the 8800GTS chipset.

Sorta. The most recent set of Quadros uses the G80(GL). The next set use G71(GL). There isn't a G92(GL) yet. So the 8800GT (clocked higher) really would be faster.