ATI's 4870 HD and 4850 HD Graphics Cards Coming for Mac

[kntgsp]

Ha, called it.

I knew they wouldn't touch that Nvidia garbage this generation. To anyone who hasn't played around with the 4000-series yet, you're gonna love em.

I hope they get the 4870 1GB model and not the 512MB model though. Either way, it's a crazy fast card.

 

[Xirurg]

any new on iMac video card?

 

[kntgsp]

There is no mobile version of the RV700 series out yet.

And to anyone that might be confused, the 4850 (RV770) is not a laptop part. It ships on boards that use > 100 Watts.

Yes there is. It's the 4850 Mobility. It was demoed over a month ago and is set for a fall release.

The only question regarding MBP placement is whether or not Apple gets first dibs on them, which have done with other parts in the past.

 

[Mac 13]

Cuda 2.0 ?

Regardless of the bad press on Nvidia lately, as Mac users are we better off with Nvidia due to Cuda which Apple has something cooking with this technology ? Also Adobe has a plug-in for photoshop supposably it would run faster with just a software update ....

 

[The Tall One]

?

Other macs also allow the use of 3rd party graphics cards... don't they? I have a Radeon in my G5.

 

[kntgsp]

Woot. The 4850/4870 will be a big improvement over the nVidia 8*00 in the current computers.

Uh what? No the 4000-series is meant to compete against the GTX 200-series.

It blows them out of the water in price/performance. And the 4870 has half the memory that the GTX280 does, yet it's still equal to the 280 or faster than it in some games.

Even the 4850 beats out the 8800GT and GTX.

The big wollop will come when they drop the 4870 1GB card. AMD has been gobbling up all the GDDR5 so fast they haven't been able to put out the 1GB model yet. When that drops, the GTX200-series will be all but pointless unless they severely undercut ATI's prices.

And for the super high end there's the 4870X2, which is just drool worthy. Fastest single graphics card.

I use an NVIDIA 790i system and an X48 system, so don't take this as fanboyism. The discrepancy between the two cards this generation really is that big. I mean with GTX280's at >$400 and the 4870 512GB at $290, it's a no brainer. And as long as the 1GB version of the 4870 stays under $400, then it's even more of a no brainer.

NVidia needs to get their s**t together.

I'm hoping for a 4850 in the Macbook Pro. ATI's cards are excellent this round compared to nVidia's offerings.

Oh absolutely. I just don't get it. Nvidia should have continued to kick ATI while they were down. They had such a substantial lead. All the "our GTX200 series is the pinnacle of graphics performance" must have been a bluff.

 

[Solid Raven]

There is no mobile version of the RV700 series out yet.

And to anyone that might be confused, the 4850 (RV770) is not a laptop part. It ships on boards that use > 100 Watts.

How many watts does a mobile gpu in the MBP use?

Perhaps a 38x0, think that would be quite nice for a MBP, especially considering the price of the machine.

 

[kntgsp]

Regardless of the bad press on Nvidia lately, as Mac users are we better off with Nvidia due to Cuda which Apple has something cooking with this technology ? Also Adobe has a plug-in for photoshop supposably it would run faster with just a software update ....

Well the next Photoshop will allow graphics card acceleration across the board I believe, not just Nvidia's CUDA.

You can find the demo of it by Googling. The improvement is amazing. Instant application of effects, just jaw dropping increases in performance.

And for that, I'd rather have the current ATI cards than the current NVidia. Last generation (8800's and 3000-series) I would have rather had the NVidia.

 

[Mattww]

Hopefully the ATI 4850 or 4870 will be available for the release of the next (Nehalem based) Mac Pro models. It would be nice to see a retail boxed version for existing owners as happened with the 3870 and other ATI cards in the past. A CTO only release would narrow the market unnecessarily. Personally I'm not too concerned about us not getting the 4870x2 as it would likely only benefit boot camp gamers rather than Mac OS X use. The single card should be fine for games in Mac OS X and would be cooler running. Personally I'd rather then spend the money upgrading later to another single faster GPU.

It does seem that the ATI cards get better driver support in Mac OS X as the NVIDIA cards don't usually show the advantage you would expect based on tests done under Windows. The architecture also seems to be more suited to the pro applications so you can have the best of both.

 

[commander.data]

Uh what? No the 4000-series is meant to compete against the GTX 200-series.

And it blow them out of the water as well in price/performance. And the 4870 has half the memory that the GTX280 does, yet it's still equal to the 280 or faster than it in some games.

Even the 4850 beats out the 8800GT and GTX.

Well, the 4850 actually competes against the 9800GTX+ and the 4870 competes against the GTX 260. The 4870 is occasionally competitive with the GTX 280, but the GTX 280 is still faster on average.

Not that I'm complaining, but I find it interesting that ATI is releasing both the 4850 and the 4870 for Mac. I thought they would just release one of them, like how they only released the 3870 in the previous generation for Mac. I guess they are going to hit nVidia while they're down, which they might as well. I do hope that nVidia responds with something for Mac, although hopefully they'll wait and release the 55nm shrink of the GT200 for Mac instead of the current 65nm versions.

I wonder if this will be compatible with all Mac Pros, not only the most recent ones.

Regardless of the bad press on Nvidia lately, as Mac users are we better off with Nvidia due to Cuda which Apple has something cooking with this technology ?

Apple is supporting OpenCL in Snow Leopard, which is supposed to be open so that you can write one program to run on both nVidia and ATI hardware. Instead of CUDA which is nVidia only.

 

[teh_pwnerer]

Yes there is. It's the 4850 Mobility. It was demoed over a month ago and is set for a fall release.

The only question regarding MBP placement is whether or not Apple gets first dibs on them, which have done with other parts in the past.

"out" means you can purchase it right now.

 

[powermonger]

Awesome! When is it going to happen?
I was thinking about getting a gt8800 but now I will wait...

 

[kntgsp]

Hopefully the ATI 4850 or 4870 will be available for the release of the next (Nehalem based) Mac Pro models. It would be nice to see a retail boxed version for existing owners as happened with the 3870 and other ATI cards in the past. A CTO only release would narrow the market unnecessarily. Personally I'm not too concerned about us not getting the 4870x2 as it would likely only benefit boot camp gamers rather than Mac OS X use. The single card should be fine for games in Mac OS X and would be cooler running. Personally I'd rather then spend the money upgrading later to another single faster GPU.

It does seem that the ATI cards get better driver support in Mac OS X as the NVIDIA cards don't usually show the advantage you would expect based on tests done under Windows. The architecture also seems to be more suited to the pro applications so you can have the best of both.

The 4870X2 is a single card. With Apple trying to push "Mac gaming" as a feature now, they would do well to include the 4870X2. At least offer it as an option. As stupid as Apple is about forcing users to go through Apple to purchase graphics cards for Mac Pros, you'd think they would at least offer up a decent video card selection. I mean, their current offering is pathetic.

And graphics cards will play a more important role with the added GPU acceleration in the next Photoshop. Also, you have lower idle power consumption with the 4870X2 vs. a dual 4870 Crossfire setup, which might not mean a lot to most people, but for those of us where utilities are expensive, it matters.

 

[kntgsp]

"out" means you can purchase it right now.

Out to me means that manufacturers have their hands on it. Since this thread is largely about future offerings, it's relevant.

 

[teh_pwnerer]

How many watts does a mobile gpu in the MBP use?

Perhaps a 38x0, think that would be quite nice for a MBP, especially considering the price of the machine.

The latest mobile GPUs will probably use like 15 W "in use". Less with the unit unplugged and the voltage and clock stepped down.

 

[barijazz]

But will it Blend?

 

[iMacmatician]

Since apple might be moving towards ati, would there be any chance of a mobile 46x0 in the MBP? Or isn't that one out yet?

The 4800 series is coming in Q4 2008, so the 4600 and lower series would likely come out in H1 2009.

It blows them out of the water in price/performance. And the 4870 has half the memory that the GTX280 does, yet it's still equal to the 280 or faster than it in some games.

HD 4870 is similar to the GTX 260.

NVidia needs to get their s**t together.

Apparently they are making a 55 nm shrink of the GT200 for Q4 2008, but given their past die shrinks (G80 -> G92 -> G92b), I'm not expecting much (still a big die).

 

[kntgsp]

Well, the 4850 actually competes against the 9800GTX+ and the 4870 competes against the GTX 260. The 4870 is occasionally competitive with the GTX 280, but the GTX 280 is still faster on average.

No. Maybe in their minds they think that it competes against the 9800GTX. The fact is that the 4850 consistently keeps up with and often beats the GTX260.

And the 4870 does essentially compete against the GTX280. And again, it consistently keeps up with and even occasionally beats the GTX280.

What you don't get is that these are the two best offerings either one has in single GPU solutions. However the prices are $175/$280 for the ATI offerings and $260/$420 for the Nvidia offerings. And if you're a real performance whore you can get the 4870X2 for $130 more than the top NVidia offering and have twice the speed.

And people don't realize that the 4870 only has 512Mb of GDDR, whereas the GTX280 has 1GB. Once the 4870 1GB version drops in Sept., it won't even be a competition. I mean, you're already paying $140 more for single digit frame rate increases if you go with NVidia. And sometimes you actually get less performance than with the cheap ATI counterpart.

Even the most anal retentive gamer can't justify that.

The 9800GTX was a flop from the beginning. It's nothing but a holdover card until they can drop prices on the GTX200's.

 

[nixfu]

Update to iMAC?

Any chance any of these parts could be used to update the iMac?

 

[kntgsp]

The 4800 series is coming in Q4 2008, so the 4600 and lower series would likely come out in H1 2009.

HD 4870 is similar to the GTX 260.

In price only. Unfortunately for NVidia, the 4870 exceeds the 260 and catches up to, and in some cases exceeds the 280. All while consuming less power under load.

And all at a substantially lower price point. You can't say two cards don't compete with each other because they are priced differently. Or because one has less memory. They absolutely compete against each other when performance is on par and one is priced considerably higher than the other.

The only thing holding the 4870 back from exceeding the 280 in every meaningful test is the lower memory available to it.

Either way, ATI is the best buy across the board, for low end and high end cards at the moment. Add in the card and chipset failures on Nvidia's part, the ridiculous price gouging and wonky drivers and it's a no brainer.

The most amusing thing is, in order to even beat the 4870X2 by single digit FPS, you have to spend $900 for an SLI setup. And if Nvidia releases another one of these hackneyed "glue to PCB's together" garbage again, ATI will just drop the 4870X2 price.

I'm not arguing for the sake of fanboyism, I'm arguing from a business perspective. It's a win-win for ATI this time around.

Unless NVidia drops the prices of the GTX cards AGAIN, since they were stupid enough to think they could price them as ridiculously as they did initially, or releases the shrunken die versions earlier, I think NVidia is a flop this round.

It's the cycle of graphics cards, it sways back and forth, as it's done for years. The next generation cards may swing back into NVidia's favor, but ignoring the painfully obvious this time around isn't going to help them accomplish anything.

 

[teh_pwnerer]

Out to me means that manufacturers have their hands on it. Since this thread is largely about future offerings, it's relevant.

It's relevant but what said is still correct. They are coming, yes. They aren't out. Even the article title has "coming" in the title. The reason I said what I said is because someone else said they are "hoping for a 4850 in the Macbook Pro". Just wanted to clarify.

 

[powermonger]

Any chance any of these parts could be used to update the iMac?

Good one.

 

[Mac 13]

Apple is supporting OpenCL in Snow Leopard, which is supposed to be open so that you can write one program to run on both nVidia and ATI hardware. Instead of CUDA which is nVidia only.

Oh I see but Apple made CUDA 2.0 kit download available recently. I can't wait what Nvidia and Apple have going on.

 

[Michael73]

I for one, have not been happy with my 8800GT. For whatever reason my framerate stinks and I constantly see flickering. Moreover, when I scroll down or up, large blocks of the page seem to get displaced. I've been meaning to take my box into my local store but it's always so busy and they're always back logged 7-10 days.

I'd welcome some nice GPU options just so I can change out my card. The kicker for me will be which card performs better with OpenCL in the forthcoming Snow Leopard.

 

[commander.data]

No. Maybe in their minds they think that it competes against the 9800GTX. The fact is that the 4850 consistently keeps up with and beats the GTX260.

And the 4870 competes against the GTX280. And again, it consistently keeps up with and occasionally beats the GTX280.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=13

Well, the benchmarks I've seen show that the 4870 generally slots in between the GTX 260 and GTX 280 while the 4850 and 9800GTX+ trade blows. I believe the only time the 4870 really exceeds the GTX 280 is in Bioshock.

The 4870X2 is a single card. With Apple trying to push "Mac gaming" as a feature now, they would do well to include the 4870X2. At least offer it as an option.

The 4870X2 may be a single physical card it still requires Crossfire to function as the two RV770 are internally linked via a PCIe switch. Without Crossfire on Mac, which requires ATI support, the 4870X2 will just perform as a 4870.