Attention new MBP owners: Please perform this Yellow tint test

[rjp]

LG versus Samsung

I calibrated and then measured the performance of my new LG (9C81) screen last night. Here is how it compares to the Samsung (9C83) I returned yesterday.

Samsung:
Very slight yellowing at bottom.
Slightly narrower horizontal viewing angle.
No bad pixels.
Post Calibrated contrast ratio 540:1 (297/0.55).
Post calibrated deltaE 2-4 range.

LG:
No yellowing.
1 stuck blue pixel.
Post Calibrated contrast ratio 659:1 (310/0.47).
Post calibrated deltaE 1-3 range.
Light bleeding at top and bottom.

So in conclusion, The LG screen has better specs after calibration to 6500K gamma 2.2, but shows light bleeding that I don't remember seeing on the samsung. I think the contrast ratio measurements help shed some light on what is happening here. The probe was placed in the middle of the screen in both cases. At this position the LG gets darker than the Samsung at 0% illumination signal (.47 vs .55), and also brighter than the Samsung at 100% signal (310 vs 297). The Samsung black is more consistant from top to bottom, but not as dark. So you could say the LG bleeding is "extra light" or you could say the rest of the LG screen is "extra black". Depends what you want to see I guess.

I'm not sure which is better. I guess I would say most of the LG screen is better than the Samsung, but the top and bottom are lower quality.

Not sure if I'll keep this on or not. I wish I could just pay extra for a perfect screen.


NOTE: Forget what I said about the gradient patterns. This was totally dependent on calibration. Once I calibrated the LG it had pretty much the same hard lines in the pattern as the Samsung. So you can force these lines to go away by missadjusting the calibration so there is no distinct step visible, but then your gamma would be messed up.

I just got back from the Apple store where I exchanged my MBP 9C83 (samsung) for a 9c81 (LG). There was no problem getting them to agree to the exchange (A+ for service). The Samsung had very minor yellowing on the bottom, the LG does not. at least not that I could see in the store.

There was a big difference in the gradient test patterns. The Samsung had very distinct lines in these color patterns (LCD_test), but the LG was totally smooth as it should be. When the tech saw this he was impressed with the test.

With the LG I can turn the monitor further sideways before the color goes bad. The Samsung got pinkish/yellow pretty fast.

Neither had any dark/bright spots.

The LG has one stuck blue pixel. The Samsung none.

When I go home tonight I will run a calibration on this display using an EyeOne D2 colorimeter and see how the gamma curve and contrast ratio compare with the Samsung data (which I saved). I was able to achieve a deltaE of roughly 2-4 and contrast ratio of about 540:1 on the samsung at D6500 gama 2.2 target.

btw, while in the store I tried the color profile I generated for the samsung on the LG and it was not a good match at all. I expected this, since in general measured calibration profiles are specific to each individual display and can not be exchanged with good results. Still it was fun to try.

 

[mox123]

I calibrated and then measured the performance of my new LG (9C81) screen last night. Here is how it compares to the Samsung (9C83) I returned yesterday.

Samsung:
Very slight yellowing at bottom.
Slightly narrower horizontal viewing angle.
No bad pixels.
Post Calibrated contrast ratio 540:1 (297/0.55).
Post calibrated deltaE 2-4 range.

LG:
No yellowing.
1 stuck blue pixel.
Post Calibrated contrast ratio 659:1 (310/0.47).
Post calibrated deltaE 1-3 range.
Light bleeding at top and bottom.

So in conclusion, The LG screen has better specs after calibration to 6500K gamma 2.2, but shows light bleeding that I don't remember seeing on the samsung. I think the contrast ratio measurements help shed some light on what is happening here. The probe was placed in the middle of the screen in both cases. At this position the LG gets darker than the Samsung at 0% illumination signal (.47 vs .55), and also brighter than the Samsung at 100% signal (310 vs 297). The Samsung black is more consistant from top to bottom, but not as dark. So you could say the LG bleeding is "extra light" or you could say the rest of the LG screen is "extra black". Depends what you want to see I guess.

I'm not sure which is better. I guess I would say most of the LG screen is better than the Samsung, but the top and bottom are lower quality.

Not sure if I'll keep this on or not. I wish I could just pay extra for a perfect screen.


NOTE: Forget what I said about the gradient patterns. This was totally dependent on calibration. Once I calibrated the LG it had pretty much the same hard lines in the pattern as the Samsung. So you can force these lines to go away by missadjusting the calibration so there is no distinct step visible, but then your gamma would be messed up.

What does DeltaE mean? Does a higher contrast ratio always indicate a better-spec'd screen? How would a manufacturer physically increase the contrast ratio of the screens they build?

 

[astrosyt]

at the left SR 9c67 display and on the right penryn 9c80 display. they dosnt have yellow issue butttt.... screens are terrible because they have these shadows, its like watching on the dirty screen... i think apple is not capable at this time put some good screens on mbp. also look at the difference between brightness. Old SR screen is much brighter. i would say at this time apple sucks.

 

[rjp]

What does DeltaE mean? Does a higher contrast ratio always indicate a better-spec'd screen? How would a manufacturer physically increase the contrast ratio of the screens they build?

deltaE is an overall metric of color and luminance accuracy.

In most LCD panels the backlight brightness stays constant and the screen is made darker or lighter by blocking this light with the panel's electrically manipulated liquid crystal cells. It is very hard to block such a bright light and it tends to "leak" or "bleed" through between cells. This is why LCD displays have poorer blacks than plasma for example. You have to throw a lot of money at a LCD panel to block all the light, and even more to block it evenly.

Since the contrast ratio is the ratio of the brightest to the darkest that a screen can produce, it is dependent on the build quality the manufacturer chooses to operate at.

 

[rjp]

at the left SR 9c67 display and on the right penryn 9c80 display. they dosnt have yellow issue butttt.... screens are terrible because they have these shadows, its like watching on the dirty screen... i think apple is not capable at this time put some good screens on mbp. also look at the difference between brightness. Old SR screen is much brighter. i would say at this time apple sucks.

I can't see the shadows in your pictures. It looks like the one on the right is just darker overall, but that could just be that the photos don't show the problem as clearly as you see it. Have you tried calibrating the display?

 

[mox123]

deltaE is an overall metric of color and luminance accuracy.

In most LCD panels the backlight brightness stays constant and the screen is made darker or lighter by blocking this light with the panel's electrically manipulated liquid crystal cells. It is very hard to block such a bright light and it tends to "leak" or "bleed" through between cells. This is why LCD displays have poorer blacks than plasma for example. You have to throw a lot of money at a LCD panel to block all the light, and even more to block it evenly.

Since the contrast ratio is the ratio of the brightest to the darkest that a screen can produce, it is dependent on the build quality the manufacturer chooses to operate at.

Ahhhh....so which is a better Delta E range? the higher the numbers the better? the wider the range the better?

 

[rjp]

deltaE

Ahhhh....so which is a better Delta E range? the higher the numbers the better? the wider the range the better?

I'm sorry, I should not have introduced this technical term without a reference. Here you can find a description of deltaE in its simplest form and another more complex version. Basically, lower is better. 0 is perfect. It is commonly used in video calibration circles.

http://www.colorspan.com/support/tools/deltae.asp
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_DeltaE_CIE94.html

 

[mox123]

I'm sorry, I should not have introduced this technical term without a reference. Here you can find a description of deltaE in its simplest form and another more complex version. Basically, lower is better. 0 is perfect. It is commonly used in video calibration circles.

http://www.colorspan.com/support/tools/deltae.asp
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Eqn_DeltaE_CIE94.html

oh kewl....good info to know...thanks for the links!

 

[Kaupa]

Hello all together,
this is my first post, but i have been reading some threads for a while now.
Normally I am posting and reading in some German forums, but I was hoping to get some further informations about apple and especially the macbook pro.
The first i got was a 2.2 SR modell in january this year. It was not allright (keyboard, screennoise, battery). After 6 weeks of waiting for no repair, i quitted the contract with my dealer and bought me an old 2.4, because of the nice price compared to the penryn modells.
This one had the yellow tint issue and I now called Apple directly. They told me to ask at the local dealer to get it repaired. Today I brought it there (another dealer this time) and a few hours later i got the panel and a noisy fan changed. Again i have a Chimei Panel and it is yellow
I will call Apple again, and the dealer will have to replace it another time, when i am in for a logicboard and keybord change (this time all keys do function, but it is uneven)....
I dont know, if this is for interest and maybe it is mentioned allready, but have a look at this:
http://www.cmo.com.tw/opencms/cmo/products/notebook/products_notebook_N154C6.html?__locale=en


This is the panel from my MBP and as you can see, it has NOT 16 mio. colors, as Apple says! Thats the same crap as with the 20" Imacs!!!

This is the Samsung panel in some other MBP
http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...pper_fmly_id=601&fmly_id=611&partnum=LTN154BT

also no "millions of colors" and even worse contrast an brightness than the Chimei!

Apple sucks if displays are concerned!!!

 

[rjp]

Interesting. How did you find these links to the manufacturers screen products? Do you have one for the LG screen?

Hello all together,
this is my first post, but i have been reading some threads for a while now.
Normally I am posting and reading in some German forums, but I was hoping to get some further informations about apple and especially the macbook pro.
The first i got was a 2.2 SR modell in january this year. It was not allright (keyboard, screennoise, battery). After 6 weeks of waiting for no repair, i quitted the contract with my dealer and bought me an old 2.4, because of the nice price compared to the penryn modells.
This one had the yellow tint issue and I now called Apple directly. They told me to ask at the local dealer to get it repaired. Today I brought it there (another dealer this time) and a few hours later i got the panel and a noisy fan changed. Again i have a Chimei Panel and it is yellow
I will call Apple again, and the dealer will have to replace it another time, when i am in for a logicboard and keybord change (this time all keys do function, but it is uneven)....
I dont know, if this is for interest and maybe it is mentioned allready, but have a look at this:
http://www.cmo.com.tw/opencms/cmo/products/notebook/products_notebook_N154C6.html?__locale=en


This is the panel from my MBP and as you can see, it has NOT 16 mio. colors, as Apple says! Thats the same crap as with the 20" Imacs!!!

This is the Samsung panel in some other MBP
http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...pper_fmly_id=601&fmly_id=611&partnum=LTN154BT

also no "millions of colors" and even worse contrast an brightness than the Chimei!

Apple sucks if displays are concerned!!!

 

[Kaupa]

Hi,
you can find out your modell with SwitchResX (http://www.madrau.com/html/SRX/About.html)
Then google the part number.
Here is the German thread about that, page 19 post 281.
http://www.macuser.de/forum/showthread.php?t=353791&page=19

I dont have a link for the LG, but one says it has only 262k colors as well!


edit: its also said, that you can find out the model with everest on windows via bootcamp...

 

[PDE]

None of the current laptop displays from the main manufacturers are 8 bit. They are all 6 bit and only capable of displaying 262k colors. "Millions" is accomplished through dithering. All manufacturers use the same displays so Apple is just using what is available....sadly that's the state of the art in current laptop LCD technology.

 

[dallas112678]

Well i got my 4th MBP replacement since i had them swap the whole unit out from the engineering hold and what do i get? a 9C82 and its terrible, the yellow is even rediculously noticeable on a full white background on the default profile. My other MBP's were hard to see on the default profile and virtually invisible when the whole screen was white. Im seriously at a loss of words and i dont know what to do (obviously ima call apple again but still.)

 

[rjp]

LG link.

Hi,
you can find out your modell with SwitchResX (http://www.madrau.com/html/SRX/About.html)
Then google the part number.
Here is the German thread about that, page 19 post 281.
http://www.macuser.de/forum/showthread.php?t=353791&page=19

I dont have a link for the LG, but one says it has only 262k colors as well!


edit: its also said, that you can find out the model with everest on windows via bootcamp...

Thanks,
I believe this is the LG screen used in the MBP.

http://www.lgdisplay.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd301_j_e.jsp

It's brightness agrees with what I measured, but I measured a higher contrast ratio (659:1 on mine, but 500:1 is spec). However, my measurements were taken at the center of the screen, which is darker than the top and bottom edges due to backlight leakage. My guess is that LG is stating the worst case contrast ratio on their site -- what I would have measured at the top or bottom where the screen doesn't get so dark.

 

[super98111]

None of the current laptop displays from the main manufacturers are 8 bit. They are all 6 bit and only capable of displaying 262k colors. "Millions" is accomplished through dithering. All manufacturers use the same displays so Apple is just using what is available....sadly that's the state of the art in current laptop LCD technology.

The LCD panel only plays R,G,B colors. The other colors also come from something like dithering.

 

[rjp]

How many exchanges before refund is offered?

I already returned my MBP to Apple. Hopefully they'll refund my CC early next week.

How many exchanges do I need to try before asking for a refund?

If I can't get a perfect display I may just settle for a macbook until the LCD technology improves on the MBP.

 

[jraneses]

How many exchanges do I need to try before asking for a refund?

If I can't get a perfect display I may just settle for a macbook until the LCD technology improves on the MBP.

After initially buying through my local Apple store, I went thorough 2 exchanges before asking for a refund. I waited a few weeks, and after some wishful thinking, configured a BTO 15" 2.5ghz with 7200rpm drive. After that arrived with a hard drive issue, it was replaced with a MBP with what I deemed to be an unacceptable AUO display. At that point, I asked for a refund -- again. In hindsight, the AUO was the "best of the worst" I'd used, and I probably could have lived with it, yet at the time, I didn't feel I could.

From what I can tell, most Apple stores are still stocking 15" MBPs with the 9C81 LG panel, and don't want to take another chance on getting one of those.

I've about convinced myself to ditch the idea of getting a MacBook Pro altogether, given my bad experiences with them of late. As an alternative, I've been thinking about getting a BlackBook, but every time I see one next to a Pro, the MacBook looks like a greasy, fingerprint ridden plastic toy. Performance wise, if I outfit a BlackBook with a 7200rpm drive and 4gb RAM, it'll perform about as well as a low end MBP in most tests, but I'm having a hard time getting over the fact that it's looks and packaging aren't as sexy and polished as the MBP.

 

[dallas112678]

After initially buying through my local Apple store, I went thorough 2 exchanges before asking for a refund. I waited a few weeks, and after some wishful thinking, configured a BTO 15" 2.5ghz with 7200rpm drive. After that arrived with a hard drive issue, it was replaced with a MBP with what I deemed to be an unacceptable AUO display. At that point, I asked for a refund -- again. In hindsight, the AUO was the "best of the worst" I'd used, and I probably could have lived with it, yet at the time, I didn't feel I could.

From what I can tell, most Apple stores are still stocking 15" MBPs with the 9C81 LG panel, and don't want to take another chance on getting one of those.

I've about convinced myself to ditch the idea of getting a MacBook Pro altogether, given my bad experiences with them of late. As an alternative, I've been thinking about getting a BlackBook, but every time I see one next to a Pro, the MacBook looks like a greasy, fingerprint ridden plastic toy. Performance wise, if I outfit a BlackBook with a 7200rpm drive and 4gb RAM, it'll perform about as well as a low end MBP in most tests, but I'm having a hard time getting over the fact that it's looks and packaging aren't as sexy and polished as the MBP.

What was wrong with the AUO? Yellow at the bottom? bleeding?

 

[f1vespeed]

I have a 15" base model penryn mbp, and I have slight yellowing in the bottom 1/3. Damn I wish I hadn't read this thread, now it's bothering me. If I have to get it exchanged it'll be my 5th new macbook this month. (3 of which were macbook airs)

 

[jraneses]

What was wrong with the AUO? Yellow at the bottom? bleeding?

It had slight bleeding, and a minimal amount of yellowing. Mainly, it wasn't consistently backlit. After looking at dozens of MBPs lately, I've yet to see one that is though.

 

[rjp]

I can tell from your posts that you have been following this issue as much as I have. From what I can tell, however, the LG (9C81) is actually the best based on number of complaints vs percentage that received this model, so I guess we have different views on this. Some say the Samsung is better, but most say it is just luck. I have had one of each so far. Neither is perfect, but the LG is a little better. Its only problem is a bit of bleeding at the top and bottom and 1 stuck blue pixel. There are two stores near me: One I think has a stock of Samsungs, and the other LGs. Not sure which I want to try next.

What I am thinking is that none are going to be perfect, so if I just drop back and buy a less expensive machine (whitebook or blackbook) I might be more accepting of limitations/imperfections. I know the MB screen is not as good as even the bad MBP screens, but it is excellent for the price. I have no need for the graphics card.

The MBP I have was purchased for me by an employee friend so he got it at a discount yet my receipt still says 1999.00 on it and has my name. How much will they give me if I return it I wonder?

After initially buying through my local Apple store, I went thorough 2 exchanges before asking for a refund. I waited a few weeks, and after some wishful thinking, configured a BTO 15" 2.5ghz with 7200rpm drive. After that arrived with a hard drive issue, it was replaced with a MBP with what I deemed to be an unacceptable AUO display. At that point, I asked for a refund -- again. In hindsight, the AUO was the "best of the worst" I'd used, and I probably could have lived with it, yet at the time, I didn't feel I could.

From what I can tell, most Apple stores are still stocking 15" MBPs with the 9C81 LG panel, and don't want to take another chance on getting one of those.

I've about convinced myself to ditch the idea of getting a MacBook Pro altogether, given my bad experiences with them of late. As an alternative, I've been thinking about getting a BlackBook, but every time I see one next to a Pro, the MacBook looks like a greasy, fingerprint ridden plastic toy. Performance wise, if I outfit a BlackBook with a 7200rpm drive and 4gb RAM, it'll perform about as well as a low end MBP in most tests, but I'm having a hard time getting over the fact that it's looks and packaging aren't as sexy and polished as the MBP.

 

[jraneses]

I can tell from your posts that you have been following this issue as much as I have. From what I can tell, however, the LG (9C81) is actually the best based on number of complaints vs percentage that received this model, so I guess we have different views on this. Some say the Samsung is better, but most say it is just luck. I have had one of each so far. Neither is perfect, but the LG is a little better. It's only problem is a bit of bleeding at the top and bottom and 1 stuck blue pixel. There are two stores near me: One I think has a stock of Samsungs, and the other LGs. Not sure which I want to try next.

What I am thinking is that none are going to be perfect, so if I just drop back and buy a less expensive machine (whitebook or blackbook) I might be more accepting of limitations/imperfections. I know the MB screen is not as good as even the bad MBP screens, but it is excellent for the price. I have no need for the graphics card.

The MBP I have was purchased for me by an employee friend so he got it at a discount yet my receipt still says 1999.00 on it and has my name. How much will they give me if I return it I wonder?

Yeah, I've been following the issue incessantly, to the detriment of my sanity and productivity during the day.

I'd guess you'd get back whatever the receipt states he paid for it.

 

[rjp]

Yeah, I've been following the issue incessantly, to the detriment of my sanity and productivity during the day.

I'd guess you'd get back whatever the receipt states he paid for it.

I hear you. The amount of work time lost to debugging MBP issues far exceeds the cost of the product. But then there's the fun of it ;-)

 

[pennymac]

AUO is a White LED display !!!

I checked the AUO website, it shows the AUO they use for mbp is a white LED display !! while LG and Samsung are Yellow LEDs. That's why when u seeing from side the AUO is still white ,and others turn yellow very soon.

http://www.auo.com.tw/auoDEV/products.php?sec=&func=info&product_id=151&items_id=2

Second, i want to say, i just back from my 3rd display repaired today.
I got a LG again (9C67) LP154WP2-TLA1, this is still the pervious SR MBP LG display. The 9c81 is TLA2.

This one seems fine to me. very very minimal yellowing on the bottom.
And a little bit bright strip along the bottom left, only noticeable when the brightness is low ( less then half). This LG is very white , a little bit uncomfortable compare to my warm and yellowish Samsung. And the bottom left is brighter then the rest.

I would go for it. unless someone can take a picture side by side to compare
LG vs other Display in terms of color quality. Which i think the samsung i have owned is very vividly in terms of color.

CHECK MY PICS,, do u think this one is good to go ?

 

[pennymac]

Color difference b/w LG and Samsung

This is the pic taken by jjahshik32
Showing the differences between his LG and Samsung.
1. LG
2. Samsung