mmm1345

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This is kind of an update to an earlier post I made.

The ATV is a massive disappointment. It is just fundamentally broken. The problem with it not being able to automatically switch resolution is even more disastrous than I initially thought. I totally take back everything that I said about early reviewers.

If I have my mode set to Dolby Vision and I run across a movie that's in 4K/HDR then it will either hang and not play at all or play that content in Dolby Vision. This tells me the box isn't actually streaming in proper HDR at all, much less 4k because I swear these streams are 1080p and my TV is just upscaling it as I've said before, I usually, CAN, tell the difference.

Logically thinking, how can this box actually detect the appropriate stream to pull from the ATV Webservers if it has no way to actually, automatically DETECT what content is actually streaming? Now I know what the catch is to the free 4k/HDR upgrades. It's not delivering the proper streams at all. It's almost as if it's a "placebo" affect.

I look at the same 4K movie on my Shield (which I hate) or my Vudu app on my TV and it's night and day difference.

Returning my ATV and will just use my ATV 4 until this garbage is fixed.
 
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PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
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Thank you.
I thought so.
I’m wired into my network, just tested the speed and it was 110 megabits download.
I read 4K only requires 25, so I should be good there.
I’m using high end hdmi cable straight to my 4K hdr 8000 series Samsung.
Set as 4K hdr 4.2.2
And the picture: it’s soft!
Nowhere near as clean as my
HDR 4K blu-rays.
Watching iTunes San Andreas right now and it looks maybe, a tad better than hd...
No matter what I do, this can’t be 4K.
 

mmm1345

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Aug 8, 2017
507
717
Thank you.
I thought so.
I’m wired into my network, just tested the speed and it was 110 megabits download.
I read 4K only requires 25, so I should be good there.
I’m using high end hdmi cable straight to my 4K hdr 8000 series Samsung.
Set as 4K hdr 4.2.2
And the picture: it’s soft!
Nowhere near as clean as my
HDR 4K blu-rays.
Watching iTunes San Andreas right now and it looks maybe, a tad better than hd...
No matter what I do, this can’t be 4K.

thank you. I had a long rant, but decided not to post it. But yeah, I just don't believe this is true 4K/HDR. How can it be when the box can't properly switch content types. It clearly isn't delivering proper encodes when I click a movie that's supposed to be in 4k/HDR10 yet it either hangs or tells my TV it's a 4k/Dolby Vision encode and Vise a Versa.


As you said the picture is way too soft on everything I watched.

I checked Vudu Shield, Vudu XB1S and Vudu on my LG TV (DV) and the quality of those streams are far superior and at while delivering 4k Compressed, it at least delivers appropriate HDR modes and I CAN tell the difference between the two HDR Formats and different 4K quality. HDR adds a clear darker tint on the whole picture (similar to what 3D used to do. So you can clearly see the picture shifting), while DV doesn't and makes certain scenes brighter (because it's scene specific).

On the ATV, this doesn't happen at all.
 

PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
36
thank you. I had a long rant, but decided not to post it. But yeah, I just don't believe this is true 4K/HDR. How can it be when the box can't properly switch content types. It clearly isn't delivering proper encodes when I click a movie that's supposed to be in 4k/HDR10 yet it either hangs or tells my TV it's a 4k/Dolby Vision encode and Vise a Versa.


As you said the picture is way too soft on everything I watched.

I checked Vudu Shield, Vudu XB1S and Vudu on my LG TV (DV) and the quality of those streams are far superior and at while delivering 4k Compressed, it at least delivers appropriate HDR modes and I CAN tell the difference between the two HDR Formats and different 4K quality. HDR adds a clear darker tint on the whole picture (similar to what 3D used to do. So you can clearly see the picture shifting), while DV doesn't and makes certain scenes brighter (because it's scene specific).

On the ATV, this doesn't happen at all.
I hear you, first time I open my mouth I was called and Android Apple hater guy lol
I’ve been using macs since system 7.
But I don’t know what else to try with this ATV4k.
I’m still watching San Andreas and its so soft.
I wonder if we have bad Apple TVs...
I have one 32gb which I picked up at the Apple Store and I have a 64Gb coming in the mail Friday.
Once I plug the 64Gb I’ll be able to compare it to this one.
If it’s the same I’ll be returning one of them.
I still need another one...
I have an Apple TV series 1 (big gray box) I have one series 2, two series 3, two series 4 and this one...
one of each lol
 

Swampthing

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Mar 5, 2004
651
575
T
I’m using high end hdmi cable straight to my 4K hdr 8000 series Samsung

I’m not sure who sold you that “high-end” HDMI cable, but I hope you realize there is no such thing. HDMI is HDMI. As long as it’s the latest specs, a $10 cable works just as well as an $85 one. My guess is that you were upselled by a greedy commission happy store salesman with a monster HDMI cable or something similar...
 

mmm1345

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Aug 8, 2017
507
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I’m not sure who sold you that “high-end” HDMI cable, but I hope you realize there is no such thing. HDMI is HDMI. As long as it’s the latest specs, a $10 cable works just as well as an $85 one. My guess is that you were upselled by a greedy commission happy store salesman with a monster HDMI cable or something similar...

I think he's just diffusing the people who will automatically assume he has an outdated or "bad" HDMI cable.
 

Graz9

macrumors member
Oct 21, 2014
41
9
I dunno, I have directly compared a couple of 4K blu-rays with iTunes. In the odd scene could I tell I minor difference? Yes, usually in the definition of the film grain but the difference is so minimal to my eyes I sold those blu-rays.
 
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TrueBlou

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Sep 16, 2014
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I’m not sure who sold you that “high-end” HDMI cable, but I hope you realize there is no such thing. HDMI is HDMI. As long as it’s the latest specs, a $10 cable works just as well as an $85 one. My guess is that you were upselled by a greedy commission happy store salesman with a monster HDMI cable or something similar...

Ah jeez, let’s not end up with 10 pages of arguments and people who are adamant their $400 HDMI cable lets them see better colours. And how their $100 SATA cable makes Exel spreadsheets easier to read :rolleyes:
 

PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
36
I’m not sure who sold you that “high-end” HDMI cable, but I hope you realize there is no such thing. HDMI is HDMI. As long as it’s the latest specs, a $10 cable works just as well as an $85 one. My guess is that you were upselled by a greedy commission happy store salesman with a monster HDMI cable or something similar...

When you running certain lengths or the cables are running inside a cable duct, you need to make sure you spend more than $10 in cables that are stronger but flexible, also durable and well shielded.
Monster is not high end or even "better", its just over priced crap.
I'm using a company called bluejean, they can make custom shields and lentghs for what ever you need and they are cheap compared to other companies.
Not every run is 3' 4' or 8', I needed 1' 2' 7' etc...
Not all hdmi will do 4.2.2 and not all of them will keep electrical interference noise out.
I have had many hdmi cables come apart in the ends in the past.
I'm not saying spend a lot, just do some research and you'll find better stuff for not much more.
 

TrueBlou

Contributor
Sep 16, 2014
4,380
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Scotland
When you running certain lengths or the cables are running inside a cable duck, you need to make sure you spend more than $10 in cables that are stronger but flexible, also durable and well shielded.
Monster is not high end or even "better", its just over priced crap.
I'm using a company called bluejean, they can make custom shields and lentghs for what ever you need and they are cheap compared to other companies.
Not every run is 3' 4' or 8', I needed 1' 2' 7' etc...
Not all hdmi will do 4.2.2 and not all of them will keep electrical interference noise out.
I have had many hdmi cables come apart in the ends in the past.
I'm not saying spend a lot, just do some research and you'll find better stuff for not much more.


Well said, there’s a vast, vast difference between well made and more expensive. Personally I’m using the same inexpensive cable I bought donkeys years ago and I’m fussy.
 
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PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
36
I dunno, I have directly compared a couple of 4K blu-rays with iTunes. In the odd scene could I tell I minor difference? Yes, usually in the definition of the film grain but the difference is so minimal to my eyes I sold those blu-rays.
There must be something wrong with my atv4k then.
my second atv4k should arrive today and ill be able to compare.
because mine, right now, its soft and its barely better than 1080p if not equal.
 

TrueBlou

Contributor
Sep 16, 2014
4,380
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Scotland
There must be something wrong with my atv4k then.
my second atv4k should arrive today and ill be able to compare.
because mine, right now, its soft and its barely better than 1080p if not equal.

Bit obvious maybe but have you tried manually setting the Apple TV to the appropriate resolution, just to be sure? And try a few different sources as well.

I’ve tried streaming some Blu-Ray rips I’ve made (from my own collection) at very high bitrates and switching sources between the Blu-Ray playing and the ATV playing the rip, I’m struggling to see any difference. Granted that’s way above what you’ll get from iTunes or Netflix, but you should still see a difference, it can definitely do 4K.
 

PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
36
Bit obvious maybe but have you tried manually setting the Apple TV to the appropriate resolution, just to be sure? And try a few different sources as well.

I’ve tried streaming some Blu-Ray rips I’ve made (from my own collection) at very high bitrates and switching sources between the Blu-Ray playing and the ATV playing the rip, I’m struggling to see any difference. Granted that’s way above what you’ll get from iTunes or Netflix, but you should still see a difference, it can definitely do 4K.

I could only think that iTunes has a low bitrate and thats why they look blurry.
Bitrate makes a huge difference on 4k camcorders, is like day and night.
 

mmm1345

Suspended
Original poster
Aug 8, 2017
507
717
This is kind of an update to an earlier post I made.

The ATV is a massive disappointment. It is just fundamentally broken. The problem with it not being able to automatically switch resolution is even more disastrous than I initially thought. I totally take back everything that I said about early reviewers.

If I have my mode set to Dolby Vision and I run across a movie that's in 4K/HDR then it will either hang and not play at all or play that content in Dolby Vision. This tells me the box isn't actually streaming in proper HDR at all, much less 4k because I swear these streams are 1080p and my TV is just upscaling it as I've said before, I usually, CAN, tell the difference.

Logically thinking, how can this box actually detect the appropriate stream to pull from the ATV Webservers if it has no way to actually, automatically DETECT what content is actually streaming? Now I know what the catch is to the free 4k/HDR upgrades. It's not delivering the proper streams at all. It's almost as if it's a "placebo" affect.

I look at the same 4K movie on my Shield (which I hate) or my Vudu app on my TV and it's night and day difference.

Returning my ATV and will just use my ATV 4 until this garbage is fixed.

...

[doublepost=1506597454][/doublepost]
Well said, there’s a vast, vast difference between well made and more expensive. Personally I’m using the same inexpensive cable I bought donkeys years ago and I’m fussy.

HDMI cables from years ago aren't compatible with current HDMI 2.0a standards. So you most likely aren't getting true 4k/HDR.
[doublepost=1506597545][/doublepost]
Bit obvious maybe but have you tried manually setting the Apple TV to the appropriate resolution, just to be sure? And try a few different sources as well.

I’ve tried streaming some Blu-Ray rips I’ve made (from my own collection) at very high bitrates and switching sources between the Blu-Ray playing and the ATV playing the rip, I’m struggling to see any difference. Granted that’s way above what you’ll get from iTunes or Netflix, but you should still see a difference, it can definitely do 4K.

Of course I have, the box FORCES you to.
 
Last edited:

bruinsrme

macrumors 604
Oct 26, 2008
6,626
2,399
Thank you.
I thought so.
I’m wired into my network, just tested the speed and it was 110 megabits download.
I read 4K only requires 25, so I should be good there.
I’m using high end hdmi cable straight to my 4K hdr 8000 series Samsung.
Set as 4K hdr 4.2.2
And the picture: it’s soft!
Nowhere near as clean as my
HDR 4K blu-rays.
Watching iTunes San Andreas right now and it looks maybe, a tad better than hd...
No matter what I do, this can’t be 4K.

I have the 2016 8000 series and i am completely disappointed compared to other sets, in it's ability to display a high quality 4K picture.

I swear my 8500 series delivers a better picture.
 

TrueBlou

Contributor
Sep 16, 2014
4,380
3,221
Scotland
I could only think that iTunes has a low bitrate and thats why they look blurry.
Bitrate makes a huge difference on 4k camcorders, is like day and night.

That’s why I wondered about trying different sources, just to be sure.
[doublepost=1506600731][/doublepost]
HDMI cables from years ago aren't compatible with current HDMI 2.0a standards. So you most likely aren't getting true 4k/HDR

You may want to check up on your facts there before you just blindly buy into what the manufacturers want to try and sell you. The cable I’m using is most definitely compatible, I can tell exactly what signal I’m getting from the information display built into my tv. I’ll just post this from the HDMI.org site to save you going to look.


Does HDMI 2.0 require new cables?
No, HDMI 2.0 features will work with existing HDMI cables. Higher bandwidth features, such as 4K@50/60 (2160p) video formats, will require existing High Speed HDMI cables (Category 2 cables).

Can existing HDMI cables support the higher bandwidths of HDMI 2.0 Specification?
Yes, existing High Speed HDMI Cables (wire only) will support the new higher bandwidths (up to 18Gbps).

HDMI 2.0 specification defined a new, more efficient signaling method, for speeds above 1.4b limits (10.2Gbps), to allow higher bandwidths (up to 18Gbps) over existing High Speed HDMI Wire Cables.
[doublepost=1506601251][/doublepost]
Of course I have, the box FORCES you to.

First of all, I wasn’t speaking to you. And secondly, no it doesn’t, you can go into settings and manually choose a resolution and refresh rate.
 
Last edited:
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PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
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I have the 2016 8000 series and i am completely disappointed compared to other sets, in it's ability to display a high quality 4K picture.

I swear my 8500 series delivers a better picture.
Interesting. Mine is great as long as I’m using UHD blu-rays.
I know that for our 2016 8000 series there are two or three different vendors for the led panels. And if you get lucky, you end up with the better one.
Maybe I did and maybe you didn’t? I don’t know.
But my blu-ray hdr 4K physical disc look 100 percents better than what my ATV4k is putting out.
[doublepost=1506601911][/doublepost]
Bit obvious maybe but have you tried manually setting the Apple TV to the appropriate resolution, just to be sure? And try a few different sources as well.

I’ve tried streaming some Blu-Ray rips I’ve made (from my own collection) at very high bitrates and switching sources between the Blu-Ray playing and the ATV playing the rip, I’m struggling to see any difference. Granted that’s way above what you’ll get from iTunes or Netflix, but you should still see a difference, it can definitely do 4K.

My ATV4k is set as 4K 60hz hdr 4.2.2
Also tried 4.2.0
Made no difference.
 

TrueBlou

Contributor
Sep 16, 2014
4,380
3,221
Scotland
Interesting. Mine is great as long as I’m using UHD blu-rays.
I know that for our 2016 8000 series there are two or three different vendors for the led panels. And if you get lucky, you end up with the better one.
Maybe I did and maybe you didn’t? I don’t know.
But my blu-ray hdr 4K physical disc look 100 percents better than what my ATV4k is putting out.
[doublepost=1506601911][/doublepost]

My ATV4k is set as 4K 60hz hdr 4.2.2
Also tried 4.2.0
Made no difference.

Pity, it’s always worth checking just in case. Out of curiosity is it only iTunes you’ve tried for 4K so far?

You’re dead right about one thing, Blu-Ray is going to look a hell of a lot better than a streaming service for quite a while yet. They could technically make them better, but they have to account for people with slower internet, so it’s a lot more compressed for now.

That’s not to say some of it can’t look good, it can, just not compared to UHD Blu-Ray.

My own rips look great, but all that offers is more convenience than getting off my butt to put a disc in :D More convenient, but more bloody expensive, I’ve just bought a HPE MicroServer to cope with the storage requirements. Anything to save me from getting up and walking to a shelf and back :D
 

Poontaco

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2014
254
176
You guys that are complaining the picture is soft; what app are you playing the movies on?
 

TrueBlou

Contributor
Sep 16, 2014
4,380
3,221
Scotland
Interesting. Mine is great as long as I’m using UHD blu-rays.
I know that for our 2016 8000 series there are two or three different vendors for the led panels. And if you get lucky, you end up with the better one.
Maybe I did and maybe you didn’t? I don’t know.
But my blu-ray hdr 4K physical disc look 100 percents better than what my ATV4k is putting out.
[doublepost=1506601911][/doublepost]

My ATV4k is set as 4K 60hz hdr 4.2.2
Also tried 4.2.0
Made no difference.


Actually, just thought of something else, again you’ve probably tried it. But I just fired up Kingsman from iTunes Store and it doesn’t look too bad. Certainly anything but soft.

I’ve heard that having the Quick Start option turned off in the iTunes Films and TV Programmes Settings can cause it to play the 1080p version instead of the 4K version. Have you double checked that Quick Start is on?
 
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PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
36
You guys that are complaining the picture is soft; what app are you playing the movies on?
I think there is only one app to play? movie app? I have about 213 purchased itunes movies in there.
Oh maybe you mean hbo? i haven tried that yet.
And netflix, I dont have the 4k option.
I did try 4k Amazon app direct on my tv and it was still better than iTunes movies.
[doublepost=1506606701][/doublepost]
Actually, just thought of something else, again you’ve probably tried it. But I just fired up Kingsman from iTunes Store and it doesn’t look too bad. Certainly anything but soft.

I’ve heard that having the Quick Start option turned off in the iTunes Films and TV Programmes Settings can cause it to play the 1080p version instead of the 4K version. Have you double checked that Quick Start is on?

This is new info for me.
I don't know what that is.
Where is it and what is it for?
Thanks.
 

JWort93

macrumors member
Aug 3, 2013
82
65
If you want to get the exact media info for the files you are streaming, you can do the following.

If you have a Mac updated to High Sierra with xcode 9, follow the steps on this page under the "Steps to set up Apple TV" area: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...-9-with-ios-11

Then once you've finished that, go to the settings app on the Apple TV, and there will be a new developer section. In there you can turn on the playback hud towards the bottom.

Turning this option on in the developer settings will get you information like this displayed on all the screens where a video is playing: https://imgur.com/uXNT0Mm

That is a screenshot of Wonder Women in 4K from iTunes. These are most definitely true 4K/HDR files, at actually a significantly better bitrate that most other 4K streaming services.
 

Poontaco

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2014
254
176
If you want to get the exact media info for the files you are streaming, you can do the following.

If you have a Mac updated to High Sierra with xcode 9, follow the steps on this page under the "Steps to set up Apple TV" area: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...-9-with-ios-11

Then once you've finished that, go to the settings app on the Apple TV, and there will be a new developer section. In there you can turn on the playback hud towards the bottom.

Turning this option on in the developer settings will get you information like this displayed on all the screens where a video is playing: https://imgur.com/uXNT0Mm

That is a screenshot of Wonder Women in 4K from iTunes. These are most definitely true 4K/HDR files, at actually a significantly better bitrate that most other 4K streaming services.

Awesome! Thanks.
 

PabloSRT8

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2016
65
36
If you want to get the exact media info for the files you are streaming, you can do the following.

If you have a Mac updated to High Sierra with xcode 9, follow the steps on this page under the "Steps to set up Apple TV" area: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...-9-with-ios-11

Then once you've finished that, go to the settings app on the Apple TV, and there will be a new developer section. In there you can turn on the playback hud towards the bottom.

Turning this option on in the developer settings will get you information like this displayed on all the screens where a video is playing: https://imgur.com/uXNT0Mm

That is a screenshot of Wonder Women in 4K from iTunes. These are most definitely true 4K/HDR files, at actually a significantly better bitrate that most other 4K streaming services.

Excellent info.
I wonder if the problem is the bitrate being so low compared to uhdbd4khdr.
Thanks!
 
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