Audio Decoding KILLS MacPro (2009) green factor

[DoFoT9]

ok so just got back from the apple store. they unfortunately had no quad core machines to sample. i ended up talking to some guy about the audio issue. he had no clue about it. when i told him that the CPU stayed at ~1% when playing back iTunes and the temperatures went from 30°C->65°C he stated that 70°C was a perfectly normal temperature for idling the MacPro.

it was at this point i didnt listen to anything else he had to say.

(disappointing apple. you should have hired me instead of guerillas.)

 

[dzam]

ok so just got back from the apple store. they unfortunately had no quad core machines to sample. i ended up talking to some guy about the audio issue. he had no clue about it. when i told him that the CPU stayed at ~1% when playing back iTunes and the temperatures went from 30°C->65°C he stated that 70°C was a perfectly normal temperature for idling the MacPro.

it was at this point i didnt listen to anything else he had to say.

(disappointing apple. you should have hired me instead of guerillas.)

I don't either care about normal temperatures in this case.

It really isn't normal if you listen to music and your CPU temperature went from 35°C -> 65°C.

I've done video rendering in After Effects many times, and even it doesn't rise the temperatures so hot as when I'm listening to some kind of sound. It doesn't make sense at all.

So, there's something wrong with early 2009 Mac Pros and OS X. Someone at Apple should just notice that.

 

[DoFoT9]

I don't either care about normal temperatures in this case.

It really isn't normal if you listen to music and your CPU temperature went from 35°C -> 65°C.

I've done video rendering in After Effects many times, and even it doesn't rise the temperatures so hot as when I'm listening to some kind of sound. It doesn't make sense at all.

So, there's something wrong with early 2009 Mac Pros and OS X. Someone at Apple should just notice that.

yea the guy seemed to think it was normal! i just cant get my head around that. if your doing something CPU intense then sure, the temps will go high! but not with itunes./.... bah

 

[smacman]

Don't even waste your time with the guys at the Apple store. I too have been down that road with no result whatsoever. Instead, open up a case with Applecare, and insist that you escalate it to a 2nd level support person. Tell that person that you would like to escalate this to engineering. If enough people do this, they WILL do something. The problem is, getting enough people to take the time to call in.

 

[DoFoT9]

Don't even waste your time with the guys at the Apple store. I too have been down that road with no result whatsoever. Instead, open up a case with Applecare, and insist that you escalate it to a 2nd level support person. Tell that person that you would like to escalate this to engineering. If enough people do this, they WILL do something. The problem is, getting enough people to take the time to call in.

interesting. might call up for issues with my TC. do you just call apple customer service and ask to go to second level support?

 

[smacman]

interesting. might call up for issues with my TC. do you just call apple customer service and ask to go to second level support?

I find it's best to start by trying to explain the problem to the first level. Within minutes it will become painfully obvious to you that you are speaking to somebody in the primate section of your local zoo. At that point, in an assertive but polite matter, ask to speak to a higher level.

 

[DoFoT9]

I find it's best to start by trying to explain the problem to the first level. Within minutes it will become painfully obvious to you that you are speaking to somebody in the primate section of your local zoo. At that point, in an assertive but polite matter, ask to speak to a higher level.

very logical. im sure once somebody starts bursting out with terms such as capacitors and the fact that they are over heating because the temperature has exceeded their thermal ratings that the level one personnel might feel a bit overwhelmed. i know i would be!

 

[smacman]

very logical. im sure once somebody starts bursting out with terms such as capacitors and the fact that they are over heating because the temperature has exceeded their thermal ratings that the level one personnel might feel a bit overwhelmed. i know i would be!

Ya. The other thing that I find is important if you want the support folks to understand your situation, is to leave out theories. Just explain to them exactly what the problem is and leave it up to them to figure out why. In this case, it's quite simple. With all apps closed except iTunes, playing a song raises the CPU 30C above normal idle temperature. You can also back it up by explaining why this is a problem for you (ie. turns the Mac Pro into a space heater). In my case, I actually need to run my aircon on full blast in the room my Mac Pro is in when audio is playing. Also mention that you are concerned that the machines internal components may fail prematurely due to excessive heat. I think that last point is important as Apple has in the past had machines fail just out of warranty due to design flaws.

 

[DoFoT9]

Ya. The other thing that I find is important if you want the support folks to understand your situation, is to leave out theories. Just explain to them exactly what the problem is and leave it up to them to figure out why. In this case, it's quite simple. With all apps closed except iTunes, playing a song raises the CPU 30C above normal idle temperature. You can also back it up by explaining why this is a problem for you (ie. turns the Mac Pro into a space heater). In my case, I actually need to run my aircon on full blast in the room my Mac Pro is in when audio is playing. Also mention that you are concerned that the machines internal components may fail prematurely due to excessive heat. I think that last point is important as Apple has in the past had machines fail just out of warranty due to design flaws.

that sounds the best way. offering explanations would hinder your chances of getting the best quality service. thanks for the tip(s)

 

[Transporteur]

There is definitely something wrong with Flash on OS X.

I've updated my Flash Player this morning (thanks DoFoT9 for the hint) and indeed the MacPros CPU usage scores about 100% less than before (about 120%).
Unfortunately the the performance on the MacBook did not improve.

Anyway, 100% less is a good result.

These Flash updates should really be delivered by the OS X Software update.

 

[DoFoT9]

There is definitely something wrong with Flash on OS X.

I've updated my Flash Player this morning (thanks DoFoT9 for the hint) and indeed the MacPros CPU usage scores about 100% less than before (about 120%).
Unfortunately the the performance on the MacBook did not improve.

Anyway, 100% less is a good result.

These Flash updates should really be delivered by the OS X Software update.

glad to be of help the difference of 100% is a very nice reduction, it just goes to show how much playback can improve if they actually try to fix it! thanks adobe

too bad about the MacBook

i agree about the updates coming via Software Update - but i guess Adobe would not agree to it.

 

[nanofrog]

ok so just got back from the apple store. they unfortunately had no quad core machines to sample. i ended up talking to some guy about the audio issue. he had no clue about it. when i told him that the CPU stayed at ~1% when playing back iTunes and the temperatures went from 30°C->65°C he stated that 70°C was a perfectly normal temperature for idling the MacPro.

Idle = 67 - 70C?!?! What a moron! Operational temps would be in excess of boiling water (100C+)! Users suing over 2nd and 3rd degree burns and over DOA equipment, as it wouldn't happen for long (CPU = meltdown).

It really isn't normal if you listen to music and your CPU temperature went from 35°C -> 65°C.

Not even close to normal.

So, there's something wrong with early 2009 Mac Pros and OS X. Someone at Apple should just notice that.

It's been reported, but I'd ask users to make more reports to increase the attention level it recieves.

Instead, open up a case with Applecare, and insist that you escalate it to a 2nd level support person. Tell that person that you would like to escalate this to engineering. If enough people do this, they WILL do something. The problem is, getting enough people to take the time to call in.

Yep. I've asked MP users to report this some time ago. Without a glut of reports, Apple would likely place any develper time for a resolution at the bottom of the priority list.

Ya. The other thing that I find is important if you want the support folks to understand your situation, is to leave out theories. Just explain to them exactly what the problem is and leave it up to them to figure out why. In this case, it's quite simple. With all apps closed except iTunes, playing a song raises the CPU 30C above normal idle temperature. You can also back it up by explaining why this is a problem for you (ie. turns the Mac Pro into a space heater). In my case, I actually need to run my aircon on full blast in the room my Mac Pro is in when audio is playing. Also mention that you are concerned that the machines internal components may fail prematurely due to excessive heat. I think that last point is important as Apple has in the past had machines fail just out of warranty due to design flaws.

Good point. I've gotten there by stating the basic nature of the problem, stating what I do (hardware design), and requesting to speak directly with the engineers. In general, it works, as I've done this with multiple companies from system vendors, to RAID card manufacturers. In some cases (major issues, especially with RAID), the solution was to return the product.

 

[Tesselator]

Idle = 67 - 70C?!?! What a moron! Operational temps would be in excess of boiling water (100C+)! Users suing over 2nd and 3rd degree burns and over DOA equipment, as it wouldn't happen for long (CPU = meltdown).

There's a lot of moronic "official" advice and information out there. is a good example where the guy read or misread [url=http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404440.html]something "official" and got steered wrong. In this case maybe the "official" person actually meant 70F - which would be about right actually.

It's winter time here in Japan again [burr!] so my idle temp is again down to 22C ~ 26C (or 71F ~ 78F). In summer with the same fan speeds, idle was a good 10 to 15 degrees celsius hotter - 34C ~ 40C (or 93F ~ 104F). Kinda goes to show what a profound influence ambient temperatures have on the idle temperature.

 

[nanofrog]

There's a lot of moronic "official" advice and information out there. is a good example where the guy read or misread [url=http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404440.html]something "official" and got steered wrong. In this case maybe the "official" person actually meant 70F - which would be about right actually.

True. The C vs. F is also an issue from time to time, but the specs (Intel) use Celcius these days, so if there's no unit listed, I presume C.

It's winter time here in Japan again [burr!] so my idle temp is again down to 24C (or 75F). In summer with the same fan speeds idle was a good 10 to 15 degrees celsius hotter - 34C ~ 40C (or 93F ~ 104F). Kinda goes to show what a profound influence ambient temperatures have on the idle temperature.

Ambients do have a profound effect.

It's even worse with Nehalem from what I've seen. As little as a 3C shift in ambient can push idle/minimal CPU% temps by 10C (same system load conditions, just a shift in ambient). As the load increases, the ambient has an even greater effect (as expected, and usually seen for any given design).

 

[DoFoT9]

Idle = 67 - 70C?!?! What a moron! Operational temps would be in excess of boiling water (100C+)! Users suing over 2nd and 3rd degree burns and over DOA equipment, as it wouldn't happen for long (CPU = meltdown).

haha its true! i explained to him that he was completely wrong but of course he thought he knew more then the silly customer

There's a lot of moronic "official" advice and information out there. is a good example where the guy read or misread [url=http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404440.html]something "official" and got steered wrong. In this case maybe the "official" person actually meant 70F - which would be about right actually.

here in australia we talk about Celsius. everything is in C, so yea im positive that he is a moron.

It's winter time here in Japan again [burr!] so my idle temp is again down to 22C ~ 26C (or 71F ~ 78F). In summer with the same fan speeds, idle was a good 10 to 15 degrees celsius hotter - 34C ~ 40C (or 93F ~ 104F). Kinda goes to show what a profound influence ambient temperatures have on the idle temperature.

i hate winter. so cold! my room is built into a hill (sort of) so the ambient temp stays quite low 22°C in winter is about normal and it wont go above 28°C in summer. it was about 35°C outside yesterday and it isnt even summer yet!

 

[Tesselator]

here in australia we talk about Celsius. everything is in C, so yea im positive that he is a moron.

/Tesselator sings altered words to the Tom Jones song:

It's not unusual to be moronic for a-n-y-o-n-e...
etc.
​

 

[DoFoT9]

/Tesselator sings altered words to the Tom Jones song:

It's not unusual to be moronic for a-n-y-o-n-e...
etc.
​

oh i LOL'd and i LOL'd good!

nice one talking in the 3rd person too

 

[nanofrog]

/Tesselator sings altered words to the Tom Jones song:

It's not unusual to be moronic for a-n-y-o-n-e...
etc.
​

OK.... MR's getting a bit too strange just about now.

 

[Dark Goob]

Audio Decoding on the 2009 Mac Pro cause the CPU temps to hit near 100% load temperatures and voltage requirements... Is this an OS X issue or hardware?

Its frustrating seeing a MP3 file played in Quicktime, bring the CPU voltage and temps so high.... Can't be good...

Also you did put 3.33ghz chips in there, which could easily have unintended consequences...

 

[smacman]

Also you did put 3.33ghz chips in there, which could easily have unintended consequences...

Did you even bother to read through this thread before responding? Have you noted that this issue can be replicated on ANY 2009 Mac Pro regardless of the type of CPU?

 

[handheldgames]

Also you did put 3.33ghz chips in there, which could easily have unintended consequences...

My initial results are in line with many other members... The issue looks solid across all current i7 CPUs on te mac pro architecture. Too early to tell about late 2009 iMacs.

 

[eemzah]

Surprisingly, watching a Silverlight webpage is less taxing on the CPU than a Flash based one.

I talked to a few Apple repair vendors here in Singapore. It is very frustrating to explain to them the issue and it is even more troublesome to bring down the machine and keep repeating myself. I keep hearing it is within normal operating temperature...

I wonder how the audio guys are coping with this machine. Blast off those fans ya?

 

[smacman]

Interesting thread underway here:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2228019&tstart=0&start=30

Somebody's MP is reaching 94C and shutting down as a result of this problem.

 

[handheldgames]

Interesting thread underway here:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2228019&tstart=0&start=30

Somebody's MP is reaching 94C and shutting down as a result of this problem.

Unless a magical update happens, aka OSX gets fixed... WAKEUP APPLE!!! , The 2009 MP is turning out as the LEMON step child of the product line.

 

[nanofrog]

Unless a magical update happens, aka OSX gets fixed... WAKEUP APPLE!!! , The 2009 MP is turning out as the LEMON step child of the product line.

Between the bug reports and the linked thread on Apple's forum, they're certainly aware of the issue. It's also easily reproduced, as proven by MR members, so there's no excuse there.

All the evidence points to software, specifically OS X, otherwise the same symptoms would occur under Windows. So it's definitely on Apple, not Intel.

Now what Apple will do, is another matter....