Australia Considers Case for Opening iPhone NFC Chip to Third Party Payment Systems

[techfirth]

No one is saying you’d be forced to use another provider.

You’d complain to the makers of the apps that are irritating you.

Regulators didn’t create Windows or Internet Explorer, either.

i must say, though, it’s very encouraging to see so many people wanting less intrusive government. I’m hopeful it’s not just a question of whose ox is fired, though.

I totally understand and I get your point about not being forced to other apps. But I bought my device from Apple with the expectation that they’d update it but that more core experience would say the same. I ask again, what right (or expertise) does a regulator have to interfere with the product designs of a private company? It’s too much government, I agree with you.

I felt the same way about MS/IE back in the day, by the way. As an IT person pushing out Windows XP, that browser choice screen was the bane of my life and did absolutely nothing for competition in the long run.

Much like the cookie banner that plagues modern websites because of EU regulation, these things are never well thought out, and usually do very little for the consumer or competition. They’re just PR on the part of the government so they can pretend to be in some way useful.

 

[willyx]

Not fond of having the NFC chip compromised by any government or third party.

That strawman fallacy right there

 

[Deguello]

I totally understand and I get your point about not being forced to other apps. But I bought my device from Apple with the expectation that they’d update it but that more core experience would say the same. I ask again, what right (or expertise) does a regulator have to interfere with the product designs of a private company? It’s too much government, I agree with you.

I felt the same way about MS/IE back in the day, by the way. As an IT person pushing out Windows XP, that browser choice screen was the bane of my life and did absolutely nothing for competition in the long run.

Much like the cookie banner that plagues modern websites because of EU regulation, these things are never well thought out, and usually do very little for the consumer or competition. They’re just PR on the part of the government so they can pretend to be in some way useful.

I think we‘re on the same page. I don’t think this is something that should be driven by government, but by demand from customers.

 

[danny842003]

It’s an interesting case because if the NFC chip was opened up the banks here would drop Apple Pay tomorrow.
Could Apple then go to parliament and force the banks to use Apple Pay as well as there own system? seems unlikely.
of course I could use another bank which still supported Apple Pay but I could also use an android.

 

[Pezimak]

I have to say, I can understand arguments about opening up app stores on the iPhone. But I would rather they left the NFC chip and wallet system alone and in the hands of Apple as personally I feel it’s secure, and use it a lot. I don’t live in Australia but I know when one country makes a rule it can spread to others

 

[jicon]

Banks do not want to lower transaction costs; they impose them to generate profits.

Revolut had free transactions in my country until recently, when they introduced fees/charges to the already installed user base.

Banks want to lower THEIR costs, pass them on to others. So far as use of Apple Pay goes, there's a per transaction cost that needs to be paid to Apple from someone.

 

[iosiseasy]

It took years before the big four Australian banks and Apple could come to an agreement over Apple Pay. Although it’s been up and running for maybe a couple of years now, Apple users in Australia were years behind with the functionality enjoyed by Android users and in many other countries. If these actions lead to a further relaxation over NFC usage and the ability to use Myki mass transit cards with Apple, then it will be a good thing. At the moment, and for several years, Android users have been able to use an electronic Myki card on their phone for trains and trams. iOS users are still waiting for this functionality, with currently no rumours that it will ever be available.

But that isn't limited to the opening of the NFC chip for 3rd party. Other countries/cities around the world use the wallet quite successfully. Japan for example has been integrated for years now with their transit system.

 

[boak]

Can't Apple just remove the NFC chip if they're forced to open up? They would be getting 0 revenue from including the chip on iPhones.

 

[0924487]

Everyone is banging Apple left and right and through all holes at this point.

 

[Khedron]

I find it interesting that countries want to force companies to open up hardware to third-parties.

Are app developers going to demand that Apple allow them to use the entire RAM next? Not sure if that's comparable but happy to be enlightened.

This is more like Apple thinking it gets to choose which routers you can connect to with the wifi chip or which devices you can connect to with the bluetooth chip.

Do you think Apple have been "forced to open up the hardware to third-parties" because non-AirPod headphones can be connected to Apple devices?

 

[MikeMo]

And collect a fee with every transaction. Funny how they miss mentioning that.

I think it’s fair to say that every single entity involved in this action are doing it for the dollars.

 

[Khedron]

Can't Apple just remove the NFC chip if they're forced to open up? They would be getting 0 revenue from including the chip on iPhones.

Apple should also turn the screen blank when people try to watch Netflix. No money for Apple means no service, stupid customers think they can just 'use' the hardware they've already paid for without any Apple tax...

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Apple could if they wished roll out their own prepaid account system which doesn’t require any alliances with banks and then close down Apple Pay to just this pool of cash. Eg load up your Apple ‘wallet’ with your monthly spending allowance, leave the rest in the bank and take more control over your spending. Many users would use this.

This is just another example of legacy control freak companies scared of the future. If the record companies had bought Napster and charged 5c a download they would have been rolling in it.

 

[boak]

This is more like Apple thinking it gets to choose which routers you can connect to with the wifi chip or which devices you can connect to with the bluetooth chip.

Do you think Apple have been "forced to open up the hardware to third-parties" because non-AirPod headphones can be connected to Apple devices?

Apple should also turn the screen blank when people try to watch Netflix. No money for Apple means no service, stupid customers think they can just 'use' the hardware they've already paid for without any Apple tax...

In both instances, Apple opened up the hardware because the market would demand them to. Consumers are not interested in asking Apple to open up the NFC chip.

All I'm saying is, shouldn't the regulator let the market do its job?

 

[Khedron]

In both instances, Apple opened up the hardware because the market would demand them to. Consumers are not interested in asking Apple to open up the NFC chip.

All I'm saying is, shouldn't the regulator let the market do its job?

Who are you to decide what consumers have been asking for? I've wanted open NFC on an Apple phones for years. I applaud regulators finally stopping Apple from forcing me to use their service on hardware I have paid for.

The people crying that others might finally have a freedom they don't personally care about are perverse.

 

[boak]

Who are you to decide what consumers have been asking for? I've wanted open NFC on an Apple phones for years.

Conversely, who are you to decide what consumers have been asking for?

If consumers want open NFC so much, they're free to buy other phones since it's a free market. I'm not asking you to go away. I'm just pointing out that the market is working fine on its own in pushing manufacturers to include features consumers want, therefore this shouldn't be an issue that requires regulators to get involved.

 

[PhoenixDown]

Security is priority 1. Even if they opened up to NFC to alternate payment systems, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell I'd install or use them.

 

[Khedron]

Conversely, who are you to decide what consumers have been asking for?

If consumers want open NFC so much, they're free to buy other phones since it's a free market. I'm not asking you to go away. I'm just pointing out that the market is working fine on its own in pushing manufacturers to include features consumers want, therefore this shouldn't be an issue that requires regulators to get involved.

You're the one making the claim about what "consumers" want. I only made a claim about what I want.

That's not how the real world works. My purchase of Apple products does not constitute an endorsement of Apple policies.

What else should Apple be free to do in your opinion? Violate employment law and so long as customers keep buying their products it should be allowed?

 

[317342]

Apple should have pulled out of Australia years ago.

 

[boak]

You're the one making the claim about what "consumers" want. I only made a claim about what I want.

I said that consumers (as a market) are not demanding for open NFC to be a must-have feature. We don't see consumers flocking away because the NFC is locked down by Apple.

 

[Khedron]

Security is priority 1. Even if they opened up to NFC to alternate payment systems, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell I'd install or use them.

Same reason I have my home page set to Apple.com and only ever visit sites that Apple.com directly links to. Why take the chance?

 

[Khedron]

I said that consumers (as a market) are not demanding for open NFC to be a must-have feature. We don't see consumers flocking away because the NFC is locked down by Apple.

Again, not how the real world works. Most people have to take into account numerous factors when deciding on purchases.

When Apple is locking down hardware for the sole purpose of enhancing its own profits, that is EXACTLY the type of abuse of power that regulators are there to stop.

 

[boak]

When Apple is locking down hardware for the sole purpose of enhancing its own profits, that is EXACTLY the type of abuse of power that regulators are there to stop.

Only if there are no alternatives/competition.

There is nothing wrong for Apple to include some hardware to gain advantage over its competitors.

If Apple chooses to open it up, that’s great. I’m not even asking Apple to keep it locked down. I’m just saying that there is no abuse of market power at all, so regulators’ involvement is not warranted.

 

[Khedron]

Only if there are no alternatives/competition.

There is nothing wrong for Apple to include some hardware to gain advantage over its competitors.

If Apple chooses to open it up, that’s great. I’m not even asking Apple to keep it locked down. I’m just saying that there is no abuse of market power at all, so regulators’ involvement is not warranted.

Not sure but perhaps the regulators are more familiar with the law than you are. Or maybe they just didn't see your post yet and are confused. You could try contacting them directly to explain their mistake.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Looks like Australia will be losing ApplePay